What is truely ruining this hobby other than prices.

[Anonymous]

You must not be looking at your copies of MR very closely. Every isuue I have from recent years has had articles such as those you describe. There is content in every issue that adresses the basics. There is an issue every year that outlines the basics such as gauge scale, etc. Then there are the regular supplements which also address basic modelling needs.

<"Model Railroader does this on occasion but they need to dedicate themselves to it as a regular feature if they expect to keep people interested.">

 If they expect to keep experienced modellers like me interested, then it won't be by dedicating themselves to the lowest common denominator. I have been critical of MR's editorial policy in the past, but at the moment I feel the balance is just about right. Cheers, Mark.

Good grief, the choir speaks. I'm talking about a section in the back, maybe ten pages dedicated to the toy segment of the hobby. Not articles scattered all over. The projects could be simpler than what I've seen like how to assemble an Athearn kit. Something like RMC did in the 50's "Toy Trains".

Im betting copies of MR tend to be read over and over again until they fall apart.

[3railguy]

You must not be looking at your copies of MR very closely. Every isuue I have from recent years has had articles such as those you describe. There is content in every issue that adresses the basics. There is an issue every year that outlines the basics such as gauge scale, etc. Then there are the regular supplements which also address basic modelling needs.

<"Model Railroader does this on occasion but they need to dedicate themselves to it as a regular feature if they expect to keep people interested.">

 If they expect to keep experienced modellers like me interested, then it won't be by dedicating themselves to the lowest common denominator. I have been critical of MR's editorial policy in the past, but at the moment I feel the balance is just about right. Cheers, Mark.

Good grief, the choir speaks. I'm talking about a section in the back, maybe ten pages dedicated to the toy segment of the hobby. Not articles scattered all over. The projects could be simpler than what I've seen like how to assemble an Athearn kit. Something like RMC did in the 50's "Toy Trains".

[Anonymous]

I wasn't going to respond again to this thread, but Mr. Busby's kind post deserved a reply. Yes. I used the books for reference when I added detail parts. I also had my 13YO (who was then 8) double check that what I did was reasonably "correct". Yes, I agree, the Lionel Thomas stuff has "issues", especially the gauge 1 version. I'm going to have to replace the gearing in my James before Christmas, that's for sure. (got the parts, gotta make the time)

Sadly, IMO, when good service and excellent quality are offered (like LGB) many people complain that the price is/was too high.  Many would rather replace a cheaper product when it breaks than pay the extra the first time for something that will last. (I'm guilty myself sometimes)

My original point was simply that the smiles and laughter far outweigh the negative comments, so I must be doing SOMETHING right.


Mik

[marknewton]

3railguy wrote:

<"As it stands now, Model Railroader is preaching to the choir in my opinion. It costs at least $150.00 a month to be the model railroader Model Railroader Magazine portrays. We tend to get so engrained in "what's right", we forget "what's simple and affordable".">

The two are not mutually exclusive, never have been.

<"It would be nice to see Model Railroader to bring back a dedicated a section of the magazine covering the basics. Articles on detailing and assembling simple plastic kits, arranging track and buildings so they look right, fine tuning engines and rolling stock, etc. Real simple stuff. Projects
that require no more than a handful of basic tools and skills.">

You must not be looking at your copies of MR very closely. Every isuue I have from recent years has had articles such as those you describe. There is content in every issue that adresses the basics. There is an issue every year that outlines the basics such as gauge scale, etc. Then there are the regular supplements which also address basic modelling needs.

<"Model Railroader does this on occasion but they need to dedicate themselves to it as a regular feature if they expect to keep people interested.">

If they expect to keep experienced modellers like me interested, then it won't be by dedicating themselves to the lowest common denominator. I have been critical of MR's editorial policy in the past, but at the moment I feel the balance is just about right.

Cheers,

Mark.

[trainfan1221]

I think this is a great hobby, but not one for everybody. I think the concept of it being ruined will depend on the individual and how they do things. If everybody just does what they can and doesn't subscribe to the theory that unless you have a huge point to point layout its worthless then we will all be alright.

[John Busby]

Elmik
I hope you have faithfully detailed James in strict accordance with the books or the kid's will get you.
They can get pretty serious where Thomas and friends are concerned
I think the junk comment will be based on some one not understanding James is a toy
meant for children or they just plain don't like
English trains of which unfortunately the Lionel TTTE don't do as good a job of representing
as they should do
You should be able to remove the face fit a proper UK smoke box door and have a good
all be it less detailed recognisable UK locomotive.
In fact the original locos did not have the faces in the beginning they came as the stories went to print.
Any way back to the original topic
The bright delighted faces of children are worth every bit of carp you get.
I think the modern Now generation as I call it
and the lack of what I remember as good service and quality products have a lot to do with, the slow demise of model railways and other hobbies that require a bit of thought and
make at least some of it yourself.
If it doesn't go bleep bleep rat tat tat boom or assemble its self the modern Kids don't seem interested.
regards John
PS all the buttons for smileys and things have mysteriously disappeared from my post page so if this comes across wrong please accept my apologies

[Pruitt]

As far as I'm concerned, whether you play with Thomas the Tank Engine or have a superdetailed layout that exactly matches the prototype in every practical way, if you're having fun with trains then you are model railroading "the right way."

Ignore those who would impose their way onto your modeling. It doesn't matter if everyone else in the world thinks you're a complete nincompoop for what you do - if you're modeling your way, you're doing it the right way.

[3railguy]

I am perfectly content with inexpensive plastic building kits, Athearn blue box rolling stock kits, and basic engines by Athearn and Atlas. My track is Life Like Powerlock on a grass matted table top. An elaborate layout featuring laser kits, Woodland Scenics, Peco track, DCC, etc. would be too time consuming, futzy, and expensive for me. Just not my style. At least not at this point in my life. I guess you could classify my approach as "toy".

I've yet to be criticized for being so basic. I've gotten encouragement more than anything.  I often hear some of the products I enjoy get criticized by the others.  But, that is because they are not to their liking and it has nothing to do with me personally. I guess their are a few who knock others for what they do with model railroading. I feel sorry for them more than anything for they must not have many friends if any.

As it stands now, Model Railroader is preaching to the choir in my opinion. It costs at least $150.00 a month to be the model railroader Model Railroader Magazine portrays. We tend to get so engrained in "what's right", we forget "what's simple and affordable". It would be nice to see Model Railroader to bring back a dedicated a section of the magazine covering the basics. Articles on detailing and assembling simple plastic kits, arranging track and buildings so they look right, fine tuning engines and rolling stock, etc. Real simple stuff. Projects that require no more than a handful of basic tools and skills. Yes, Model Railroader does this on occasion but they need to dedicate themselves to it as a regular feature if they expect to keep people interested. If the magazine wants to see kids attracted to the hobby, what I'm saying here really needs to be considered because as it stands now, 95% of them don't have the means to carry out the projects in Model Railroader. They and their parents see it as overkill and are scared off. Even the Worlds Greatest Hobby campaign overdoes it.

[grayfox1119]

Your right Jeff, it is your RR, and what makes YOU pleased is ALL that counts. Trying to emulate what you see in the mags, or pics, can drive some MRR's nuts. That is why they get so upset. They have what I call, " the kid in the candy store " syndrome. Don't blame the hobby because you can't afford all that you want TODAY. That is only the lie of todays I want it NOW society.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I did something similar to that today. Except in my case it was my mother and a few of her friends who have all known me for years.

[Paul3]

(Waaay Off Topic)

CNJ831,
About voting...the last time I went to vote, I got to the correct precinct table at our High School gym, and was greeted by Mrs. Brody, who said, "Hi Paul!  How's your mom and dad?"  Talk about positive proof of ID, try running into your old school teacher and family friend who's known you since you were in diapers! 

Paul A. Cutler III
*************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*************

[jeffrey-wimberly]

The only thing that could truely ruin the worlds greatest hobby is the same thing that ruins real life for so many people. Trying to keep up with what the well to do have. So somebody has has a fancy layout made of all precisely laid handmade track, controlled with the greatest feature filled DCC system on the planet that does everything but wash the dishes.

SO WHAT!

My layout is simple 2 x 4 benchwork topped with plywood. On top of that are three layers of styrofoam sheets and the trackwork, consisting of all Bachmann EZ track, which I have had NO problems with because I laid it right in the first place. It's set up for DC block control and also has DCC control with a Bachmann EZ Command DCC system and you know what? I LIKE IT! I don't care what the guy down the road has or whatever fantastic thing the MRR super kings have come up with. I just do what I want to do. That's what this hobby is all about! Doing it the way you want to do it, not the way somebody else says it should be done because they do it that way.

[grayfox1119]

CURTMc: In order for ANYONE in ANY STATE in the US, you need to REGISTER to vote. In order to register, you must go to your town/city voter registrar, and give a legal residence, which also includes your age when you register and proof of.
The when you go to vote at your location, you must state your address, and name. If you are not on that list, you do not vote. End of Story!!!
This is the LEGAL way things are supposed to happen. I cannot vouch for wrongdoings that may occur, the world has no shortage of cheats and bad guys.

[whitman500]

You dont have to show any id to vote anymore just show up speak spanish and pull the lever

It is against the law to ask anyone to prove they are a citizen or 18 or even registered

 

wow! 5 pages of debate on a subject nobody is sure of. sound almost like politics. love to stay and argu the point but im only 13 and therefor cant vote

Where I am, if your name is not in the book... ye aint voting.

They could take your information and let you vote, but will go back and verify it. If found to be false or otherwise un supported then the vote will be thrown away and not counted.

I went this morning and all you needed to have was your name and address.  When I tried to show ID, the person told me to put it away because it was unneccesary.  Then they had me sign next to my name in the book and then vote in the machine. 

What's ridiculous about this is that anyone could have shown up and claimed to be me and voted in my name.  I'm in the phone book.  And if I showed up later, there's no way to remove the fraudelent vote from the system and replace it with mine.  It would be particularly easy to vote for someone that had recently died or was in a hospital/nursing home. 

The worker who told you to put the ID away was probably watching the clock and wanting to hurry up and process everyone thru. That worker should have been replaced with another worker who will take the extra 10 seconds for the ID.

That worker should have made you show ID. We had two seperate workers ask for our ID and once we signed ours and got a slip to the "Boss" we were free to vote.

That was not the reason.  This happened to both me and my wife and when we arrived at the polling place we were the only voters there (there was no one behind us to process).  There were 5 or 6 poll workers sitting around doing nothing.

[CNJ831]

whitman500 -

I went this morning and all you needed to have was your name and address.  When I tried to show ID, the person told me to put it away because it was unneccesary.  Then they had me sign next to my name in the book and then vote in the machine. 

What's ridiculous about this is that anyone could have shown up and claimed to be me and voted in my name.  I'm in the phone book.  And if I showed up later, there's no way to remove the fraudelent vote from the system and replace it with mine.  It would be particularly easy to vote for someone that had recently died or was in a hospital/nursing home. 

I'm in NYS too and agree...this was exactly the same situation for me. There were no waiting lines and when I ask what ID they wanted to see, the reply was, "none...just sign and vote..." Nice, huh!?

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

You dont have to show any id to vote anymore just show up speak spanish and pull the lever

It is against the law to ask anyone to prove they are a citizen or 18 or even registered

 

wow! 5 pages of debate on a subject nobody is sure of. sound almost like politics. love to stay and argu the point but im only 13 and therefor cant vote

Where I am, if your name is not in the book... ye aint voting.

They could take your information and let you vote, but will go back and verify it. If found to be false or otherwise un supported then the vote will be thrown away and not counted.

I went this morning and all you needed to have was your name and address.  When I tried to show ID, the person told me to put it away because it was unneccesary.  Then they had me sign next to my name in the book and then vote in the machine. 

What's ridiculous about this is that anyone could have shown up and claimed to be me and voted in my name.  I'm in the phone book.  And if I showed up later, there's no way to remove the fraudelent vote from the system and replace it with mine.  It would be particularly easy to vote for someone that had recently died or was in a hospital/nursing home. 

The worker who told you to put the ID away was probably watching the clock and wanting to hurry up and process everyone thru. That worker should have been replaced with another worker who will take the extra 10 seconds for the ID.

That worker should have made you show ID. We had two seperate workers ask for our ID and once we signed ours and got a slip to the "Boss" we were free to vote.

[whitman500]

You dont have to show any id to vote anymore just show up speak spanish and pull the lever

It is against the law to ask anyone to prove they are a citizen or 18 or even registered

 

wow! 5 pages of debate on a subject nobody is sure of. sound almost like politics. love to stay and argu the point but im only 13 and therefor cant vote

Where I am, if your name is not in the book... ye aint voting.

They could take your information and let you vote, but will go back and verify it. If found to be false or otherwise un supported then the vote will be thrown away and not counted.

I went this morning and all you needed to have was your name and address.  When I tried to show ID, the person told me to put it away because it was unneccesary.  Then they had me sign next to my name in the book and then vote in the machine. 

What's ridiculous about this is that anyone could have shown up and claimed to be me and voted in my name.  I'm in the phone book.  And if I showed up later, there's no way to remove the fraudelent vote from the system and replace it with mine.  It would be particularly easy to vote for someone that had recently died or was in a hospital/nursing home. 

[Anonymous]

You dont have to show any id to vote anymore just show up speak spanish and pull the lever

It is against the law to ask anyone to prove they are a citizen or 18 or even registered

 

wow! 5 pages of debate on a subject nobody is sure of. sound almost like politics. love to stay and argu the point but im only 13 and therefor cant vote

Where I am, if your name is not in the book... ye aint voting.

They could take your information and let you vote, but will go back and verify it. If found to be false or otherwise un supported then the vote will be thrown away and not counted.

[Anonymous]

You dont have to show any id to vote anymore just show up speak spanish and pull the lever

It is against the law to ask anyone to prove they are a citizen or 18 or even registered

 

wow! 5 pages of debate on a subject nobody is sure of. sound almost like politics. love to stay and argu the point but im only 13 and therefor cant vote

[Anonymous]

I always love how people write long complaints on the internet complaining about people complaining on the internet

[jecorbett]

I agree with those who say the hobby is in great shape. There are tremendous new products appearing every year and the manufacturers would not be developing new products if they didn't think there was going to be a market for them. I think the hobby has had a few downturns over the years but that was due mainly to factors outside the hobby. The video game craze for one. Economic downturns that reduce disposable income is another. The hobby has always bounced back and I don't see that changing. As we boomers move into retirement, we are going to have time on our hands and money in our pockets and I can see a lot of boomers who will return to a hobby they enjoyed as youngsters but got away from. I predict we will see the hobby enjoying unprecedented prosperity.

[Dave Vollmer]

Nothing.  Nothing is ruining this hobby.  Things are as good as they've ever been in my short 25 years in the hobby.  In terms of quality and selection of products, it's never been better.

Just because people have disagreements about how they choose to enjoy the hobby, that doesn't mean the whole hobby is ruined.  Jeez.  Let's not be so dramatic!

[NeO6874]

wow! 5 pages of debate on a subject nobody is sure of. sound almost like politics. love to stay and argu the point but im only 13 and therefor cant vote

who says you can't stay and argue your point? you're a member here just like the rest of us..


as for what's "ruining" the hobby... as others have said - it's lack of contact with (1:1) trains.  Many of the people here have said they grew up watching X trains roll through town per day, and they got a kick out of it.. now all they see is the 5-car local or something.

solution: we need more rail traffic again!

[jblackwelljr]

Maybe I’m an odd duck, but going back to the original poster’s comments about interacting with other modelers, hobby shop acquaintances and critics, I don’t worry about all that.  Model RR’ing is the one activity I do for me – I try to differentiate it from other aspects of my daily life.  Because I interact socially on many other levels with all types of personalities, I don’t need to seek approval from anyone else regarding my modeling skills, my approach to modeling or the end results (and I am my biggest critic).  I just need to please myself and have fun while I’m doing it.

 

I will seek advice from others more skilled and experienced than I am and I have a lot of respect for those who put their work on display, either to share their accomplishments or to seek criticism. For me, as long as I enjoy what I’m doing in the hobby, right, wrong or indifferent, I will continue down my chosen path -  I can be influenced but not disheartened. 

 

I think the hobby can be ruined only if the individual hobbyist allows it to be.  Maybe a bit of a myopic view but it works for me.

[steamage]

Our model railroad hobby is better than ever with new products coming out every month. Today is far different than in the 1970s when we'd take some old Tyco diesel and detail it. I still have one a Athearn F7 diesel that has all hand made details done long before Details West came out with their line. We also had poor paint jobs from manufactures, so had to weather the freight car to make look okay. Our hobby just fine!

[Train Master]

wow! 5 pages of debate on a subject nobody is sure of. sound almost like politics. love to stay and argu the point but im only 13 and therefor cant vote

[Midnight Railroader]

What we have not had in the past is a worldwide place to gripe about everything. This magnifies "problems" that have always been a part of the hobby.

Exactly right, and an examination of magazines' "Letters to the Editor" columns of the past will prove the sentiments have been around forever.

[andrechapelon]

[Willie Nelson]

Mommas don't let your babies grow up to count rivets,

Don't let them rebuild old archbar trucks

Make sure they become lawyers, serial killers and such

Mommas don't let your babies grow up to count rivets,

'Cause they will become giant pains in the

They'll give you migraines, psoriasis and gas........

[/Willie Nelson]

 

 

[marknewton]

Agamemnon wrote:

<"So more realism == better...">

Yes. Would you bother to build a model that was unrealistic?

<"and all of us who fall short of the finescale mark are automatically some kind of modeller /Untermenschen/?">

Are you? Well, OK, if you say so. But you made that statement, it wan't stated explicitly or implied by anyone else.

My point is that some modellers are far better at their craft than others, and they seem to attract criticism on account of that. What else would motivate that sort of criticism except envy?

"<I don't envy a man who's concerned with the sunshades on a steam locomotive cab. Pity, yes. Loathe, possibly. Ridicule? At every chance I get.">

Really? Pity, loathe and ridicule? Why would you do that? Or are you simply trying to prove my point for me?

Cheers,

Mark.