Are "pure" free lanced model railroads dead?

[Hawks05]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

As a rivet counter, I have to say it's my observation that the term "freelancing" means, in the overwheming majority of cases, "I'll run whatever I want in whatever setting I want with whatever track design I want." Precious little research goes into the majority of "freelance" layouts.

Now, if that's what you want to do, that's fine. It's America, after all. But you aren't really MODELLING a RAILROAD if your layout consists of a hodgepodge of locomotives and cars from different eras running in circles through random scenery.

It'd be better defined as "playing with trains."

i'm kind of like that. i mean i'm going to try and stick to 3 different railroads (BN, CB&Q, and CNW) but if i see a locomotive i really like (like the Southern Pacific schemes) i'll maybe buy it and run. i'm going to come up with my own track plans then after i get going i'm going to come up with a back story for it and make it my own railroad down the road with my own railroad company and stuff.

[Anonymous]

[:0]Free-lanced model railroads are definitely not dead. I'm creating a totally fictitious railroad because, unlike modeling prototypes, you have the freedom of planning something unique and which suits your interests and tastes. I've nothing against modelers who strive to re-create prototypically-correct (or as correct as possible) layouts--but there will always been room for both. [:D]

[eastcoast]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Guys,Regardless if you free lance your railroad name(NOT LAYOUT) it takes as much research has it does a real railroad if it is to be believable..
Guys if you say your railroad is say Kentucky Central and all I see on your layout is the L&N,then brother you are modeling the L&N.Period..Now if I look at your locomotives and see they are lettered for the KC then you are indeed free lancing a railroad.Now if you tell me you are modeling the KC division of the(say) L&N then I well agree with that..

I don't believe for one second that those that model a real railroad is any better then those that model a believable free lance railroad..I say again BOTH NEEDS TO BE RESEARCH IF THEY ARE TO BE BELIEVABLE PERIOD...Not shouting just trying to get the point across.[;)][:D]

Now for those of you that free lance your layout name in order to run every road name under the sun then that is ok to.But please don't tell me you have a free lance railroad..I won't believe it for one second unless I see engines or cars lettered for that road name.

[}:)]
You sell an interesting point here.
I do have a very broad freelanced area I model,the EASTERN COASTLINE,
but to overcome it from looking like an AMTRAK OR CSX ,ETC., I custom
made my own personal decals of my roadname to personalize all new
equipment I purchased. Now, freight lines haul ALL ROADNAMES from
everywhere and then send them back to origin. I do this too, it adds the
realism to the models. So, in direct quote to you, yes, research has to be
done to achieve the desired effect. But, It is still MY FREELANCE railroad.
[:p]
ken_ecr

[Anonymous]

As a rivet counter, I have to say it's my observation that the term "freelancing" means, in the overwheming majority of cases, "I'll run whatever I want in whatever setting I want with whatever track design I want." Precious little research goes into the majority of "freelance" layouts.

Now, if that's what you want to do, that's fine. It's America, after all. But you aren't really MODELLING a RAILROAD if your layout consists of a hodgepodge of locomotives and cars from different eras running in circles through random scenery.

It'd be better defined as "playing with trains."

[BRAKIE]

Hawks,No problem..I just get so wrap up in discussing freelancing I sometimes forget about the new guys like you...Of course that also applies to layout designing as well as prototypical operation...Those that know me jokingly call me Tony Koester Jr. when it comes to freelancing,layout designing and prototypical operations..

[Hawks05]

valid points Brakie but what if you're like me and are just starting and don't want to repaint locomotives right away. what do you say to that. i plan on freelancing mine but i'm not going to start repainting the brand new CB&Q locomotive i got last weekend just so i can say that my layout is freelanced. to me freelancing is something you made up and isn't part of a real railroad. say i'm planning later down the road to have the West Central Wisconsin Railroad but i'm not repainting anything yet. i have more to worry about than proving to someone that my layout is freelanced. i still need to buy locomotives, rolling stock, make the benchwork, wire everything, lay track, do scenery, and many other things.

i'm not trying to sound rude or anything. i'm just saying new people like me have bigger things to worry about than proving our railroad is freelanced. i, like many others, have to learn other skills more important than painting stuff before we can actually make our own railroad.

thats just me though. i'm not trying to be rude either.

[BRAKIE]

Guys,Regardless if you free lance your railroad name(NOT LAYOUT) it takes as much research has it does a real railroad if it is to be believable..
Guys if you say your railroad is say Kentucky Central and all I see on your layout is the L&N,then brother you are modeling the L&N.Period..Now if I look at your locomotives and see they are lettered for the KC then you are indeed free lancing a railroad.Now if you tell me you are modeling the KC division of the(say) L&N then I well agree with that..

I don't believe for one second that those that model a real railroad is any better then those that model a believable free lance railroad..I say again BOTH NEEDS TO BE RESEARCH IF THEY ARE TO BE BELIEVABLE PERIOD...Not shouting just trying to get the point across.[;)][:D]

Now for those of you that free lance your layout name in order to run every road name under the sun then that is ok to.But please don't tell me you have a free lance railroad..I won't believe it for one second unless I see engines or cars lettered for that road name.

[jpmorrison]

no free lance are not dead im working on my as we talk

[Anonymous]

I'm a free lancer modeler... there's plenty of us out there.

I find it more fun to go free lance because then you don't have to be resricted to a specific quota track plan. I'm sure many will agree with me that it is more fun to have a free lanced layout than a real line.

[Dave Vollmer]

I’m a convert. I’m on my fourth layout, and this time I’m “proto-lancing.” I’m doing the PRR in 1956, although it’s a generic stretch of track and a nameless town northeast of Harrisburg. I started with a totally implausible freelanced railroad (I was also just a kid). The next two layouts I built as an adult, and although still freelanced, each one was based more and more on a specific prototype. I finally realized why that was the case and switched to modeling a real railroad. For me, the fun is in researching the prototype and attempting to reproduce it in miniature. One day when space and cash allow, I plan to model the PRR Middle Division from Harrisburg to Altoona as faithfully as possible.

I firmly believe you should do whatever it is in this hobby that makes you happy. If you really enjoy inventing a whole story and history behind your fictional yet plausible railroad, so it! That was my favorite part of freelancing. If you’d rather reproduce an entire subdivision of a Class I, have at it! Heck, even if you want to pull a string of Superliners with a wood-burning 4-4-0, then you should be able to do so without fear of criticism. The only caveat I have is that the more off-the-wall (and farther from mainstream) your layout or interests are, the less company you’re likely to find. The magazines and manufacturers are trying to make money, so will tend to appeal to the more mainstream (and therefore more numerous) modelers.

Have fun!

Dave

[Anonymous]

Not dead here. In my case, my Grand Valley Railroad is located in northwest Pennsylvania but is a railroad that absolutely never existed in the area. It is a railroad that I always imagined could have been after spending many years in the woods of the locale, deer hunting. It's like I have been there even though it never really existed.

[Jetrock]

One thing to keep in mind is that advances in technology have also made things easier for freelancers. With an inkjet printer and some decal paper, anyone can make their own custom roadname decals at home in minimal time, in any color (although only a couple printers print with white ink.) Fonts and custom graphics are child's play to create, allowing freelancers to add unique roadname logos and signage to their rolling stock and stations.

This is leaps and bounds above earlier eras, when custom decals were very expensive and not something one did at home. When I was younger I did have a "freelance" line of sorts--my dad's layout was nominally Southern Pacific, but my part of it was a freelanced short line called IFTCO (Interstate Freight Transportation Company) serving fictional parts of the southern Sierra Nevada region into California, Nevada and Arizona. I hand-painted the logo and roadname onto cars (with the previous roadname painted over) and typed station signs on my dad's typewriter onto cardstock. Primitive, but adequate.

Those of us who model obscure short lines have the best (or worst) of both worlds: we can do research (as I mentioned, I find historical research to be fun in itself) and where the hobby world sells us short (there just isn't much SN stuff out there) we can create custom decals for our own lines and make use of off-the-shelf undecorated rolling stock that fits our needs--even if it isn't exact.

[Bikerdad]

First, let me say that the QTRyNN is most definitely freelance. It is so for several reasons, all of which I think pertain to the question, and which may become evident in my response.

An earlier post referred to the two elements of believabiliity and realism. The elements are related, but fortunately for us, they are not in lockstep with one another. However, the linkage itself points to an important tradeoff, a tradeoff where the parameters change from person to person, and even within a person over time. That tradeoff is between creating a level of believability and satisfying one's other desires within the hobby. Internal coherency is one of the key elements to fostering belief, and prototyping, strangely enough, actually makes creating the internal coherency much easier. A prototyped MRR comes complete with a backstory which boosts the believability, which allows one to spend much more time on the "realism" element. The more closely one adheres to the prototype, the stronger the prototype supports the believability. This is especially true when dealing with Non-MRRs. When Joe California sees a MRR of the Southern Pac, UP, or other real lines that operate(d) in California, it establishes a connection, and hence, boosts believability.

Conversely, the farther one goes into freelance, the harder it is to both create the internal consistency, and to establish emotional connections with Joe Public. It CAN be done, but it is more difficult. There even becomes a point where a pure freelance road (aka a Fantasy Road) can more effectively engage Joe Public than does a quasi-proto-lance. This, of course, works best with children, who can connect with Thomas or the Hogwarts Express without any qualms.

This then becomes the tradeoff: the further you go into freelance, the more you can do. However, you also have to work harder to maintain the "believability", because you're trading "realism" for freedom. The prototyper, of course, faces a different tradeoff. The further into protoland he travels, the harder he has to work to establish realism, but the less work on believability he has to do.

Now, the last element goes to human nature. Most of us strive, at some level, to excel. It is a hard, unwelcome truth that "excel" implies standards. Prototypers have it made in this sense for a simple reason: they have what is essentially an objective standard. This standard makes it easier to evaluate their own progress towards excellence, AND to compare their progress to others. Freelancers are handicapped in this sense, which in part explains why prototyping becomes more prevalent the longer a person has been in the hobby. Another element that I believe explains the shift towards prototyping is that "freelancing" is often a cover for "exploring" and figuring out what a person really wants from the hobby. Prototyping allows one to focus, but again, with tradeoffs.

How does this tie into the magazines? Well, the overall aging of the magazine's audience means that they are shifting more and more towards prototyping, and thus, the magazine's, in order to meet their reader's desires, follow suit. Bring more yunguns into the hobby, and you'll see things shift back the other way. Do an article on the DwarvenOrcSmash Railway and you'll thrill the Warhammer guys, but most of the current readers will be less than enthused at an article on super-detailing a rail mounted trebuchet! Only problem is, how many Warhammer guys are going to be reading MR magz?

Grace and peace, BD

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hagen75

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

Way Cool website....Those are awesome models, is the layout indoors or outdoors?

It's outdoors, but that is not mine just one of my favourites.
Mine is called BRCS RR and so far the track is in planning [xx(]
But when the snow dissapears sometime next year, I will be ready with the track [:D]

Thanks for posting it anyways, i already have a couple of projects in mind from some of the models shown.

[NevinW]

I think they are much less common. I have modeled "free-lanced" model railroads in the past, but as I have progressed, modeling a specific time and place with relatively prototypical equipment has appealed more to me. My current railroad depicts the B&O and the WM on the Sheepskin route through Morgantown West Virginia. Researching and building this layout has been the most fun of any I have built. Certainly, all of the new much improved models have made this kind of prototypical modeling feasible. The time spent just trying to get the models to work now can be spent researching and scratching building. Personally, as far as the magazines go, I would much rather see a model railroad that depicts real railroads than a fantasy railroad. - Nevin

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

Way Cool website....Those are awesome models, is the layout indoors or outdoors?

It's outdoors, but that is not mine just one of my favourites.
Mine is called BRCS RR and so far the track is in planning [xx(]
But when the snow dissapears sometime next year, I will be ready with the track [:D]

[ndbprr]

I think one of the main reasons for less Pure freelanced is the fidelity to prototype of equipment offered today. Even ten years ago you made something and slapped every roadname conceivable on it whether it existed or not. If you visit the railroad sim web sites you see that today. Veranda turbines decorated for every railroad under the sun as an example including Coca Cola. Modelers who knew enough that Virginian hoppers were black weren't going to settle for silver ones and were forced to have private roads because of lack of resources for their favorite railroad. Today you can pretty much get something in the railroad you want, in the detail you want and in the price range you want that will adquately duplicate that railroad. Will we ever have Baldwin Centipedes or center cab transfer engines? Probably not unless I win the lottery but can I find all kinds of stuff for PRR that didn't even exist last year. You bet. So my Allegheny Railroad is fast taking a back seat to the PRR stuff I am able to get. Will I abandon the ARR? It is no longer modeled as trackwork. It has been reduced to trackage rights on the PRR. Will it be phased out? I can see that possibility due to the amount of equipment that can be on the railroad at any given time. Will it happen? Ask me in ten years.

[vsmith]

Hagan75,

Way Cool website....Those are awesome models, is the layout indoors or outdoors?

I'm also doing 1/2" scale G gauge (indoors) and I know exactly what you mean about the almost inevitability of freelancing in large scale. Read some of my rants on the Garden RR forum about the poor selection of G guage products out there.

Some of these HO guys are so spoiled by the fact that they can get any locomotive ever made from 10 different manufacturers in 10 different roadnames and 10 different paint schemes, they should try large scale where you can choose from 1 manufacturer and whatever locomotive and whatever roadnames that maker decides to produce.

They'd wet their 'depend's'...

[Anonymous]

I do mostly garden railroading, and there isn't much besides freelanced there it seems.
Some "quasi"-prototypical and some quite prototypical, but mostly freelanced.
Like this one
http://home.earthlink.net/~ggage/
The "Humbug & Honeydew"

[Anonymous]

Well, I consider myself to be a free lancer even though I model a long gone fallen flag. My layout has no real name yet and will probably never have a specific locale. That eliminates the need to be picky about the types of plant life that inhabits the area. As far as the railroad company goes I live 30' from the UP main line and have had enough of looking at yellow and gray especially on a locomotive like the 40T-2's. So I saved the bankrupt Rock Island. I came up with a brand new paint sceme(darker blue and white with red pinstripes and of course the big R) bought out the UP and repainted their SD90mac's.

There is so much freedom involved in such freelancing that I think that purists consider it beneath them. I have even been refused service at a local hobby shop because I painted a Kato 90mac blue and white and slapped a big R on the sides and boy would he be offended when if he knew I cut up an Athearn Dash 9 and made a C44-9WB cabless.

So no I don't think it is dead just shunned by the purists and considered to be a sore on the buttocks of model railroading. The hobby is there to enjoy not to get an ulcer stressing that the shade of paint is not prototypical.

Thanks,
Jeremy

[Hawks05]

i think with mine i'll probably use actual railroads like CSX, BN, UP, and CN depending on what i get but i'll maybe decorate a few unpainted cars to have like certain industries on them. i'm going to have a Brewing Company, Grain company, and maybe a steel plant. like a industrial steel place (large bulk tanks for milk and liquids and such).

should be cool. i need to come up with a back story for Loneview.

[Anonymous]

I've been doing my own fictional shortline, the Hudson Valley Northern for quite a few years now. While operation is loosly based on D&H practices, the back story and equipment selection has been all HVN.

I'll be the first to admit that going freelance can appear to be easyas you're not confined to any certain equipment limitations, coming up with some of the more realistic details can be very hard to do. An example would be the Alco FA's I currently run...for detail purposes they are ex-NYC units. Using this thought process is not perhaps pure, but it does give me a starting point and helps with the back story of the HVN.

Recently the HVN management decided to buy some new power as the FA's are beginning to need more shop time due to wear and spare part issues. They have decided on a pair of new GP40-2's.

We're all in this hobby for fun. And while some of us find it writing fictional histories and running our models through fictional towns, others enjoy digging through actual history to find what a particular locomotive looked like on a certain day during a certain year.

Is either person enjoying the hobby any less?

[Anonymous]

I don't think they're dead. I currently model a fictious prototype, which I call the Thomasville Railroad Company. If it were real, it would have territory throughout Pittsburgh, the rest of Pennsylvania, and parts of West Virginia, Virginia, New York State, and Ohio.

I am satisfied with my decision no matter which way I look at it. My fictious road interchanges with the Pennsylvania near Thomasville (where the road's offices are located), in Traxington off the Coal Fork Branch, the Baltimore and Ohio at Summit, Pa, and the Virginian and Ohio off the same line near Coal Gap, WV. Unlike the Pennsy whose steam locomotives were retired inj the early 50's, my road's steam continues and will run until 1965 and Passenger Service continues to run smoothly and turn a profit.

Despite this, due to lack of room, I am restricted to 3' X 5' right now, but as soon as I get the room (Or a building of my own) I will have quite a bit of my empire built. But I guess that has to wait until the distant future.

To Mr. Sperandeo: I do have a question for you: How do I submit an article for publication in Model Railroader?

Tom Pearce
Modeling the Thomasville Railroad Coal Fork Branch, Circa Spring of 1952.

[Hawks05]

i came up with Loneview as my town so far. i'm going to get like 1-2 undecorated locos and give them a paint scheme of my own probably but for now i'll stick with railroads that already exist. but they will run on a made up town and stuff. just have to wait till i have more money to get undecorated locos, then the Western Wisconsin Railroad will be in business.

[ErnieC]

There is a certain snob appeal in the current prototype modeling mania. Problem is it's too confining of one's creativity and of the wide variety of interests a prototype enthusiast may acquire. I'm very interested in the Ma & Pa but don't model it as it did not run milk, mail, thru freights or mixed trains (after 1945). Nor do I have the 40 hours a week to scratch build all the structures that would be needed. Protofreelancing requires a considerable knowledge of the industry and it's environs and gives one room for the creative opportunity to build scenes that are at least composites and at best places that could exist because they have that 'true to life' feel. This hobby is an art form when we explore it's potential. Now if I only had the skill to create what I can imagine!

[Hawks05]

i don't know how old this thread is but i'm just starting and there are a few things i want to do. like i want to model the area in which i live but we only have 1 line run through the whole county so that wouldn't be fun. i want to model Minneapolis/St. Paul but i never get up there to look at anything so i think i may just create something of my own. try my luck at creating my own railroad. i'll get back to all of you on what i come up with or decide to model in the end.

[Anonymous]

I model a fictious prototype: My HO Scale Thomasville Railroad that runs from the town of Thomasville, Pennsylvania, and into Pittsburgh, Parts of West Virginia, Virginia, and Ohio. Unfortunately, due to space limitations (and having both, an HO Scale Layout and an N Scale Layout) I was restrictd to 4'-0" X 8'-0" on my HO Scale one, while the N scale one is 3' X 5', and based on the Thomasville Railroad's Coal Fork Branch (No way related, but somewhat based on ideas from Tony Koester's AM Extension) that runs from the town of Traxington PA. Acros the Mason-Dixon Line, and through West Virginia's rich coal country. You can tell its coal country whenever the amount of hoppers outnumber boxcars five to one...

PS: Mr. Sperandeo, if you are reading this note, how do I go about submitting an article to you guys for publishing in MR? Just wondering...

Tom Pearce
Modeling the Thomasville Railroad in HO and N Scale.

[eastcoast]

[^]

Good morning to all
In this great world of ours, NOTHING IS DEAD UNLESS YOU FEEL IT IS.
My miniature world of EAST COAST RAILWAYS is as fictional as it gets.
I mainly run Amtrak and CSX but , my railroad has competing corporations
trying to out-do each other, just like real life. I run 3 tracks(mainlines) in a bedroom size area and I love it. I do agree that there needs to be a story to go with your world or you will find some aimless boredom with it. Like many others, the EAST COAST RAILWAYS is far from complete and is always evolving with a new plot or new construction, and its all about FUN. [^]

[preceng]

What is more fun when you are creating your own mini railroad ... than creating your own railroad? As the CEO of the now great B&M RR (Named after my wife and daughter), I have been able to create every detail of the railroad the way I WANT THEM My wife says I have control issues...but not on my line...not in my basement where I am king. Andrew Carnegie move over. Hail th mighty B&M (which occasionally stands for "female dog & Moan").

I have the greatest respect for those of us who model a prototype down to the last lavatory sign. I love viewing these lines in MRR, etc. I also enjoy having those other lines use the B&M rails on a regular basis, although they pay dearly (insert sinister laugh).

Thanks for the grins guys and gals.

[Anonymous]

As an Aussie who not only prefers to model U.S.prototype in the equipment sense, and also U.S. landscape, I would hope I'm not alone in feeling that, in creating my own world of ficticious towns, cities and railroad companies I am developing a unique environment for creativity, both operationally and visually. As I trained as a fine artist I'm fully aware of the importance of familialiarity in the visual senses, but there are times when creativity can and indeed must rule, in order to express the overall idea. May the freelancers and the reality purists work together to maintain a harmonious balance that this hobby has always pertained to offer. Long live model railroading!