Are "pure" free lanced model railroads dead?

[IRONROOSTER]

Free lanced model railroads, defined as a ficticious road name, I think will always be with us.  Some folks just want to roll their own, just like some get as close to a prototype as possible.  Others are somewhere in between. I think freelancing was more popular years ago when just getting a layout built and running was a big challenge. Now there is more of a desire to model a prototype which I think is a result of better quality kits and RTR available today. 

But even though I am following the Ma&Pa for my next layout, I have several free lance cars, including one for the G&D, that I will run on my layout.  I also have some 2 ft gauge locomotives and cars that I will include.  So I guess I am mixing the two.

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

My layout is a real line, but the only realy town is Concord, NH. Stude NH, Dooley, NH, and New Poland, NH are completly fictional. (To the best of my knowlage, anyway)

[SOU Fan]

Nope, not dead.

[PA&ERR]

BTW...

My Port Able and Pacific is totally freelanced, though inspired by the Seattle and North Coast. Also, you won't find any of my towns on any map, but the scenery is (will be) reminiscent of the Pacific Northwest.

And, if I have a  mind to hide an oversized toy alligator in one of my lakes, I'll do so, as John Allen once said, "Not because I don't know any better, but because it amuses me." 

-George

[PA&ERR]

As a rivet counter, I have to say it's my observation that the term "freelancing" means, in the overwheming majority of cases, "I'll run whatever I want in whatever setting I want with whatever track design I want." Precious little research goes into the majority of "freelance" layouts.

Now, if that's what you want to do, that's fine. It's America, after all. But you aren't really MODELLING a RAILROAD if your layout consists of a hodgepodge of locomotives and cars from different eras running in circles through random scenery.

It'd be better defined as "playing with trains."

I've got news for you...

We're ALL just playing with trains.

Our boxcars are empty, as are almost all of our other cars (if you don't count car weights). They don't really go anywhere. Many just go around in circles. Others just go from one storage area to another. Even the broadest of the average layouts cruves are closer to that of a trolley or interurban line than even a Class III road.

And short!

Even the longest of our model railroad "mainlines" come nowhere near to duplicating the real world. Most wouldn't even qualify as a piece of industrial trackage.

In short, we all compromise when it comes to building and operating our layouts. Just because a person chooses a different set "standards" to base his modeling on, doesn't mean he (or she) isn't a "Model Railroader".

Everybody models to their own interests, and abilities. As far as I'm concerned model railroading should be a big tent that covers everybody from a 3 year old playing with Brio trains to the likes of John Allen (who, BTW IMHO was the ultimate freelancer) and Tony Koester.

George

 

 

[Dave Vollmer]

Curious that this 4.5-year-old thread was resurrected this weekend.

This was the very first thread I ever replied to when I joined trains.com.  In fact, I was sitting in an Iraqi-run internet cafe on Camp Muleskinner, Baghdad, when I did so.  That camp is now gone.

Interesting.  Equally interesting is that in 2003 I was drifting out of freelancing and into prototype modeling.  Now I'm completely entrenched in prototype-only modeling.

[New Haven I-5]

no free lance are not dead im working on my as we talk

I have built 3 free lanced layouts & 2 of them are DEAD!

 

[mmartian22]

yes they are  alive  i believe .my layout is a free lanced one .i was trying to model the c&o logging -coal region in wv  and found my scratch building  stinks . so i went out  and bought the  plastic stuff and did it that way untill i can practice on scrath building better .

[pastorbob]

Back in the 1970's and up to mid 80's I had a freelanced railroad called the Mojave Western.  It included a second freelanced railroad, the Oklahoma Northern.

In 1988 I scrapped the freelance and began modeling the Santa Fe, Oklahoma lines, 1989.  I stayed pretty close to the reality factor with it.  I grew up on the Santa Fe as a child, worked for them after college for several years in Topeka KS designing computer systems, left for ministry. 

Today, my three deck Santa Fe still runs, but I recently introduced some fiction into reality.  In 1989 Santa Fe abandoned some trackage in Western Oklahoma coming into Cherokee OK.  I unabandoned it, and re-introduced the Oklahoma Northern, which runs with a hodge podge of cast off diesels including high noses, lots of grain cars, second hand, etc.  ON uses the same decals and paint job as the original ON, has trackage rights over Santa Fe to Oklahoma City and now I have the best of both worlds.

Life is good!!!

Bob 

 

[on30francisco]

My railroad is freelanced but is based on narrow gauge logging and light industry practices around the early 1900s (more or less). I don't follow any particular prototype as long as my equipment looks plausible. I find prototype modeling too restrictive and anal FOR ME. Malcolm Furlow and John Allen are my heroes. I realize Model Railroader and RMC are pushing prototype modeling and operation and there's nothing wrong with that, however, there are many closet freelancers out there who find their interests better served by other magazines or the internet. I find the Large Scale and On30 community is very laid back and accepting when it comes to us freelancers, protolancers, and renegade modelers.

[bportrail]

I am right there with ya!  There was some serious rail mounted firepower deployed in WW2.  They make for some great modeling.

 Keith-Bportrail

  

[GTX765]

Everything about my Layout is free-lanced and fictional. I am even having some engines with UP markings that UP never owned. My layout will have a WWII battle with Germans and Americans having a battle over a Fuel Refinery. The fuel is the blood of any military with mechanized infantry and armor. So of course I will have German and American trains and rolling stock bringing in fresh war supplies to the battle. We all know this never happened but it sure is fun. Not to mention German engines are so different compared to the American engines. I like to line them up on the rails and compare them. I did not see the joy of re-creating what was already built in real life. I wanted to create my own world on my layout. Most might think it's strange but I am doing this for my personal enjoyment.

[The Highlander R R]

I 100% agree with everyone else. I am a freelanced Model Rail Roader myself. I have created  my layout entirely from my imagination and researching for all my ideas, and feel my end results would have been no better if I had done proto type. I have several areas on my layout that have items from actual pieces of rail road history but everything else has been created to fit what was needed to make it happen. My R.R. can be seen at www.claytimeceramics.net  or www.rrlayout.com The Highlander. I created everything to scale and never tire of my enjoyment from working on my layout ; even after working on it since June of 2003, and still have so much more I still want to do. I say hats off to the guy who just wants to enjoy model Rail Roading and the Free Lancer. Even the real thing was about someones dream of bringing to life what the rails could do, so if you want to get technical all rails could be looked at as a free lance R.R. type in the begining.  The Highlander. 

[orsonroy]

Pure freelance layouts are still in the majority in this hobby. They always have been, and probably always will be. One of the big reasons we're seeing a lot more prototype-based layouts in print is because most of the best modelers in the country (that are willing to be published) are reality-based. I've seen a LOT of pure freelance layouts while on layout tours, and frankly, they suck. If a layout isn't pretty enough to get published, it won't be.

One other thing to think about. Model railroading is the only modeling hobby where the majority of people DON'T model reality. Model boats, cars, airplanes, tanks, etc., all lean heavily towards modelign a real slice of life, while most model railroaders don't. Frankly, most other model hobbies don't take us seriously because of this, calling us a bunch of crazy old men playing with toy trains in our basements. Proto modeling proves to the rest of the hobby that we can actually do betetr work than the rest of them, since all our stuff looks good AND functions!

[Anonymous]

I was scanning your question and some of the others comments. It is very interesting to see that the freelance layouts are not dead. I also sort of freelance my layouts. I think this method should continue. In some ways a researched true to life layout that has been modeled after a certain RR or area is good, if that's what you really want to do. but in other ways it is not so good. A very good friend of mine has been going to build a layout modeling either the Kalispell, MT. or a portion of the GN RR for years now, and he has yet to ever get beyond the beginning stage. I have seen him start several layouts then suddenly tear them out and get rid of all the equipment ( to include all the pre-made benchwork he had ordered and assembled ) to just end up having to re-buy, all new quipment for the same thing all over again. (To me that is a waste of hard earned money, but that is his choice) I have built 3 freelance layouts in this time frame and have had all of them running. unfortunately, do to my occupation, I've had to tear them up as I've had to move from town to town or state to state.and because of limited cargo space when moving, i have had to leave the wooden portions of the layout's behind (but at least I didn't have to get rid of my equipment.) Well, at least wood is cheaper than model RR equipment.
My point is: that it's sometimes more fun to to just do a freelance and have the fun of running it, than to spend years doing research on a particular RR and building part of it and never even getting it running.BLOCKED SCRIPTinsertsmilie('[:)]')

[Anonymous]

What is beautiful about this part of the forum is, we have people actually talking about model railroading and not just blarney to build up stars. Long live the Dalreada National Railways.

[easyaces]

Freelance model railroads are far from dead, including my own MR&L(Monticello,Richmond,&Lafayette RR)"Serving the Hoosier Triangle") which started out as a track and signal maintenance RR to hauling freight as a small regional, and has connections with both CSX and NS in between. They might push all the others in the magazines, but there are still those of us with some imagination and gumption to keep freelancing alive!

[Anonymous]

Not to me are they dead. I've been in the hobby fir over 50 years and have enjoyed visiting hundreds of pikes, allover the country. You can see quality work with both protptype modelers and free lancers. I'm a free lancer and happy at it, but I try my best to make my Intermountain Pacific RR as accurate as I can, just as if it really existed. However I do subscribe to Allan McClelland's 'good enough' philosophy. I don't detail what cannot be viewed, in most cases. My layout is in the Absoroka Mountains of Montana and runs from the real town of Red Lodge to Silver Gate Mt. but I have several made up towns inbetween, however they are generally based upon geographic factors. Towns like Rock Creek, Beartooth, Wyomont, Pipestone, and Helper are examples. My RR is set solidly in the summer of 1959. I totally resist the urge to vary this time slot. I'm really pleased that Atlas is releasing the low hood SD-24 soon, as this is about the only low hood that I can accomodate. My reason for holding to 1959 is that it is about the latest that I can justify running steam and I have several of United's Sierra 2-6-6-2's on the line, to which I have added Elesco feedwater tanks on the brow, plus the pumps and seven pipe runs to the heater. I can do it because it's my own freelanced line. I have a very convincing story behind my railroad and how it evolved. My line was created by the Treasure State Metals Ltd.,. in order to haul out the significant volume of copper ore which they discovered near Clark Folk. We have the mine plus a concentrator, an electrolytic refinery and a wire mill on the line. This can make for a lot of traffic on an out of the way mountain railroad. Sure we use diesels, many Atlas/Kato RS-1's, and RSD-5's, in a flashy bright red and gull grey scheme, with a yellow side sill stripe. The RR is in a 12 x 20 ft. room with 144 ft. of mainline and two terminals. No it hasn't been published. I submitted it to MRR but maybe there's truth in the statement that they prefer prototypes since they didn't accept it. My layout was open for the 1986 Boston National Convention as well as several NER Regionals. But I have a great deal of fun and relaxation in the hobby and that helps to contribute to a long life. Jack.

[Supermicha]

Also for me, freelance is not dead. I´m running Columbia & Southern Trains in the 1990 era on my "narrow village" layout. Having its own railroad is much more fun than running Uncle Pete or something else. i´m the boss and can run trains like i want.

micha

[TheK4Kid]

I myself am working on a basically "freelanced layout", but it will carry a Pennsylvania RR theme, based on the 40's and early 50's, with mostly steam engine era, witha couple early diesels.
Mainly because my dad worked on the Pennsy when I was a kid.
I am also a private pilot and so, it will include an airport from the same era, but it will be based on a historic airport here locally.
The local RR 's here ran behind the airport main hangar, and during world war two, carried parts for and later the the dissassembled for transport TDR-1 drone, the FIRST cruise missile the military ever used. TDR-1's were used against Japanese ships in the Pacific.
Just a short distance from there, the first atomic bombs were partially assembled and transported by local rail transport.
This all took place in northeast Indiana, in the city of Ft Wayne.
By the way. Nickel Plate's famous 765 Berkshire is being restored not far from where I live, over just east of Ft Wayne, and only about 1/4 mile from where the first three atomic bombs were partially assembled in the very same building complex.

[GDRMCo]

The great dividing range mining company operates in queensland, new south wales and victoria. i uses engines built in aus by clyde emd and operates coal zinc lead and gold trains from the mines to the docks to be exported to overseas markets.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Guys,Regardless if you free lance your railroad name(NOT LAYOUT) it takes as much research has it does a real railroad if it is to be believable..
Guys if you say your railroad is say Kentucky Central and all I see on your layout is the L&N,then brother you are modeling the L&N.Period..Now if I look at your locomotives and see they are lettered for the KC then you are indeed free lancing a railroad.Now if you tell me you are modeling the KC division of the(say) L&N then I well agree with that..

I don't believe for one second that those that model a real railroad is any better then those that model a believable free lance railroad..I say again BOTH NEEDS TO BE RESEARCH IF THEY ARE TO BE BELIEVABLE PERIOD...Not shouting just trying to get the point across.[;)][:D]

Now for those of you that free lance your layout name in order to run every road name under the sun then that is ok to.But please don't tell me you have a free lance railroad..I won't believe it for one second unless I see engines or cars lettered for that road name.

[}:)]


I'm not in full agreement here, as I'm modelling circa 1959 most engines are just arriving from other railroads and my paint shop gang have been on strike for the past 6 months so the "new arrivals are still sporting their original colours. But don't worrying, once the trade dispute has been resolved Uncle Pete's smiling face will be the first to be painted over[:D]

The imagination is not be put in a box!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:

but how could any one think!!![:(!][:(!][:(!] that free lance was dead[:0][:(!][:0][:(!][:0][:(!][:(][:(].

[Anonymous]

Not dead. Mine (The Blue Water Line) is set in fictional villages in the Cattskil Mountains and connects with the now defunct O&W.

[TRENT B]

NO! NEVER! Mine is 12ft x 9ft shaped like a U with a slide out "bridge" I saw in a recent MR article but the issue escapes me at the moment. I'm running a 4-6-4 "Blue Goose" Hudson with blue/yellow warbonnet Geeps. I fell in love with the blue/yellow SantaFes when I was a boy.
I like all trains but the blue/yellows are my favs.
I am totally freelance and I love "playing" & planning the Katieville yards and look. When I am further along I'll post some pics. "FREELANCE IS NOT DEAD!!!" was the battle cry heard round the world! Ha Ha!
Good luck !
Trent

[bluepuma]

Sure hasn't been the style MR has been showing, more typically is based on some real name or interchanged with a name road. I'm not sure I even want to see that type of railroad, uncertain of what I could learn. Real places, parts of real places even tragically distorted are more interesting, something that looks like it could have come from a real place and time.

Parts of all these model RR's we see are unreal, a lot of places are very boring if you look at them a while. Becoming interested in modeling again helped me see the world in a different light, noticing details I would not have before. I rue the things I did NOT see, things I should have found, recorded on film, before moving 2000 miles away and nearly half a century.

I'd like to see more river crossings full scale, I know what the Missippi looks like in several places between Illinois and Iowa, and the Illinois River at Peoria and north, and the Mile Long Bridge between LaSalle and Oglesby to the concrete plant. I'd just like to have the space to model the LA River crossings of ATSF, and UP, the San Gabriel River ATSF crossing near Irwindale, I-10 or Valley Blvd SP, then UP.

Frustration in getting the key models makes me want to freelance a Los Angeles area that doesn't exist in one place and time just so I could use buildings that weren't there or were in other areas, like the Korea town or Japanese section, where I might put the Tomix and other Japanese buildings, some Kato trains. Maybe the Bullet Train to Las Vegas, San Diego, or coast line to SF.

The compromises in depicting even a realistic quarter mile of surburban area or 4 blocks of city edge put me in fantasyland.

I understand why Walt Disney built Disneyland as it was in '58 or so.

1:1 modeling with compression, different times, places.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Guys,Regardless if you free lance your railroad name(NOT LAYOUT) it takes as much research has it does a real railroad if it is to be believable..
Guys if you say your railroad is say Kentucky Central and all I see on your layout is the L&N,then brother you are modeling the L&N.Period..Now if I look at your locomotives and see they are lettered for the KC then you are indeed free lancing a railroad.Now if you tell me you are modeling the KC division of the(say) L&N then I well agree with that..

I don't believe for one second that those that model a real railroad is any better then those that model a believable free lance railroad..I say again BOTH NEEDS TO BE RESEARCH IF THEY ARE TO BE BELIEVABLE PERIOD...Not shouting just trying to get the point across.[;)][:D]

Now for those of you that free lance your layout name in order to run every road name under the sun then that is ok to.But please don't tell me you have a free lance railroad..I won't believe it for one second unless I see engines or cars lettered for that road name.

As Ed McMahon would say to the Great Carnac.."YOU ARE CORRECT!!!"

Yes, even a freelanced layout SHOULD be researched and planned just like a prototype layout. Just because the freelanced layout never existed in reality doesnt mean it cant "look" real. It sould have a HISTORY and a PERIOD, Even one thats made up. History means a backstory that explains how your railroad ended up where it is today, and today is the Period you chose to model, 1920's, 1950's, or 2000's.

Period allows you to fine tune the feeling of your layout. Some go so far as to model an excact day (March 4, 1941) I wouldnt go so far as that, but having a layout with 1900 steam engines and a 2000 Ford Exploder on the layout just doesnt look right, unless say, your modeling a modern day tourist excursion line. Then you satisfy both history, running steam in modern day, and period, because the line got taken over for the tourist line. You could even run excursion freight trains with freshly renovated period freight cars, all shiny new like. Just a thought.

I am building a post WWII 1/2" scale narrow gauge mining layout using a variety of g guage items. Its a freelanced layout but I plan to use ideas from a variety of "real" places and trains. Detailing, structures, cars, all add to the believability of the layout and the more you use the same things you see happening to real items and add them to your trains, like the way soot and grime build up on a Cumbres & Toltec K-37, the more believable your layout looks. To me thats part of the challenge.

[Anonymous]

I don't think Freelancing is dead, in fact I believe the opposite. People are getting tired of the prototypical rivit counting Purists. In the last month, I've come across dozens of people posting in several places that thay're creating such and such RR in someplace it never ran, or they're builing their own RR based ina certain time frame. And less and less people are spouting how thier RR is pure to the line.

In fact even found a group making their own RR's, then intertwining the lines in fictional routes. Person 1 has a line in say Arizona, person be has a line in texas, they dicide to hook up in some city in New Mexico, even going so far as to say what cities along the way that their line services.

Freelancing is on the rise, as it always should have been.

Jay.

[Jetrock]

Real trains are becoming extinct? Not from where I'm sitting...some of the historical stuff is dropping away, but rail traffic is actually on the rise--freight traffic is at an all-time high, Amtrak is carrying more people on intercity routes, and light-rail public transportation is expanding. Even short lines (including new ones) are carving out their own economic niche making use of older equipment in regions where major railroads have abandoned uneconomic branch lines.

Personally I have high hopes for the future of model railroading because trains are here to stay. Of course, today's kids will be misty-eyed about FREDs instead of cabooses and third-generation diesels instead of last-generation steam engines, but they'll still be building models and taking photos and grousing about the latest Athearn kits...

oh yeah, on playing with trains vs. model railroading: if you're just starting out and gaining basic skills, it's perfectly fine to play with trains for as long as you want. eventually, though, you may develop the urge to go farther with the hobby, which is where things like operation schemes, prototype research, freelancer backstory and custom paint jobs come into play...think of it as the next level of challenge for a model railroader. It's helpful to complete the first level first, though. Don't be in a rush, no matter what us old guys say.

[Anonymous]

The enjoyment for me is creating the town and the layout with the train within the town. And of course its functional use as if it were real. My trains have sat in a box for almost 20 years and now are out of box and getting ready to use again. I want to go the extra mile and this time I want to design and build some of my own buildings. My enjoment use to be creating realistic looking landscapes and now I'll expand on that too. Free lance modeling is the most open style of creativity and I am all for it. What we need to figure out is how to spread the movement and interest into the younger generation. Real trains are slowly becoming extinct and we can preserve the love of trains in model rairoading. Anyone showing off their whole layouts on the web?