Homasote help

[n2mopac]

I have read about and seen many modelers who are using homasote for roadbed. I want to try it on my new layout, especially in the yards and dense industrial areas where several tracks run paralles to one another. I have shopped at all of the local building supply stores (Lowe's, Sutherland's, The Home Depot, etc.) but no one seems to carry it. Where can I find sheetsof homasote for purchase?

[n2mopac]

I have read about and seen many modelers who are using homasote for roadbed. I want to try it on my new layout, especially in the yards and dense industrial areas where several tracks run paralles to one another. I have shopped at all of the local building supply stores (Lowe's, Sutherland's, The Home Depot, etc.) but no one seems to carry it. Where can I find sheetsof homasote for purchase?

[jrbarney]

Have you tried the Homasote Company site at <http://www.homasote.com> to see if they have a listing of dealers or an E-mail contact point ? Also, don't forget that Homabed sells pre-sawn roadbed at their Web site <http://www.homabed.com> which will be a lot less messy unless you absolutely want the sheets. Do you have a pickup to carry the sheets home in ?

[jrbarney]

Have you tried the Homasote Company site at <http://www.homasote.com> to see if they have a listing of dealers or an E-mail contact point ? Also, don't forget that Homabed sells pre-sawn roadbed at their Web site <http://www.homabed.com> which will be a lot less messy unless you absolutely want the sheets. Do you have a pickup to carry the sheets home in ?

[Anonymous]

My Local Menard's has 2' x 4' sheets available. I seem to remember that they seemed "reasonably" priced, and you wouldn't need a truck to get it home in. I would think that you could special order if you can't find it locally.

[Anonymous]

My Local Menard's has 2' x 4' sheets available. I seem to remember that they seemed "reasonably" priced, and you wouldn't need a truck to get it home in. I would think that you could special order if you can't find it locally.

[dknelson]

Here in Milwaukee you can buy homasote in a couple different ways, and we have Home Depot as well as a more local outfit called Mendards.
First it comes in 4x8 sheets like plywood but I rarely see that available. Plus many places store big sizes like that outdoors or in unheated areas where homasote just wicks up the moisture.
The other way is within the store itself where they sell "handi panels" of 2 foot by 4 foot plywood, masonite, pegboard, chipboard, melamine and homasote. This is in the area where they also sell shelves and such. That is also where I get my plywood in the 2 ft by 4 ft size because even though it is cheaper to buy a 4x8 sheet and have them rip it to size, the plywood that size tends to get badly warped while the stuff inside is laid nice and flat and stays warm and dry. Plus the smaller size fits in my car.
Failing a home improvement type store, try finding a real lumber yard or place that caters to real contractors.
By the way when I cut homasote sheet for roadbed I do it outside. The stuff creates a fine dust that gets into everything. It also tends to dull saw blades -- I actually use a blade meant for metal because the cut is finer. Then I shellac the piece including the soft edges to try to avoid future warping. That makes it harder and maybe less sound absorbing.
Dave Nelson

[dknelson]

Here in Milwaukee you can buy homasote in a couple different ways, and we have Home Depot as well as a more local outfit called Mendards.
First it comes in 4x8 sheets like plywood but I rarely see that available. Plus many places store big sizes like that outdoors or in unheated areas where homasote just wicks up the moisture.
The other way is within the store itself where they sell "handi panels" of 2 foot by 4 foot plywood, masonite, pegboard, chipboard, melamine and homasote. This is in the area where they also sell shelves and such. That is also where I get my plywood in the 2 ft by 4 ft size because even though it is cheaper to buy a 4x8 sheet and have them rip it to size, the plywood that size tends to get badly warped while the stuff inside is laid nice and flat and stays warm and dry. Plus the smaller size fits in my car.
Failing a home improvement type store, try finding a real lumber yard or place that caters to real contractors.
By the way when I cut homasote sheet for roadbed I do it outside. The stuff creates a fine dust that gets into everything. It also tends to dull saw blades -- I actually use a blade meant for metal because the cut is finer. Then I shellac the piece including the soft edges to try to avoid future warping. That makes it harder and maybe less sound absorbing.
Dave Nelson

[Sperandeo]

I like Homasote for roadbed but I hate the mess of cutting it, as Dave Nelson described. I use precut HomaBed roadbed from the California Roadbed Co. See the ad on page 21 of the October MODEL RAILROADER, or visit the Web site at www.homabed.com.

So long,

Andy

[Sperandeo]

I like Homasote for roadbed but I hate the mess of cutting it, as Dave Nelson described. I use precut HomaBed roadbed from the California Roadbed Co. See the ad on page 21 of the October MODEL RAILROADER, or visit the Web site at www.homabed.com.

So long,

Andy

[Anonymous]

Homasote is old fashion. Use extruded foam. It's lighter, more stable, can be cut without wearing a resperator, can be carved to shapes, doesn't require a sheet of plywood under it, can be found at most home centers and insulates noise better. It's also hard to find Homosote seemingly everywhere except for Milwaukee. We have three lumber yards in town, none have it! In Springfield, Missouri, the third largest city in Missouri behind only Kansas City and St. Louis, no one claims to have it, and Lowes and Builders Square claim to not even know what it is. Same with Hydrocal.

[Anonymous]

Homasote is old fashion. Use extruded foam. It's lighter, more stable, can be cut without wearing a resperator, can be carved to shapes, doesn't require a sheet of plywood under it, can be found at most home centers and insulates noise better. It's also hard to find Homosote seemingly everywhere except for Milwaukee. We have three lumber yards in town, none have it! In Springfield, Missouri, the third largest city in Missouri behind only Kansas City and St. Louis, no one claims to have it, and Lowes and Builders Square claim to not even know what it is. Same with Hydrocal.

[Anonymous]

flee307, I agrre with you on the extruded foam,but, when cutting it you may want to put on some sort of respiratory protection.

[Anonymous]

flee307, I agrre with you on the extruded foam,but, when cutting it you may want to put on some sort of respiratory protection.

[Anonymous]

Maybe if you use a chain saw LOL. I use hot wire and/or a serrated kitchen knife. I have never noticed a dust problem, but heh, better safe than sorry.

[Anonymous]

Maybe if you use a chain saw LOL. I use hot wire and/or a serrated kitchen knife. I have never noticed a dust problem, but heh, better safe than sorry.

[n2mopac]

Just responding to all your helpful advice, I went to the homasote web site and found that only about 5 places in all of Missouri (yes I'm in Missouri too) carry it. The only one within 100 miles of me is in Jefferson City, over 40 miles away. I have used extruded foam for scenery, but havn't tried it for roadbed. My primary concern is in yards, and extruded foam would probably work well there in 1/2 " thicknesses. I assume with foam you have to glue the track down. What is the best glue for this that won't attack the foam? I know I've read the answer to that question in MR in the past, but can't remember. Thanks again for everyone's input.
Ron

[n2mopac]

Just responding to all your helpful advice, I went to the homasote web site and found that only about 5 places in all of Missouri (yes I'm in Missouri too) carry it. The only one within 100 miles of me is in Jefferson City, over 40 miles away. I have used extruded foam for scenery, but havn't tried it for roadbed. My primary concern is in yards, and extruded foam would probably work well there in 1/2 " thicknesses. I assume with foam you have to glue the track down. What is the best glue for this that won't attack the foam? I know I've read the answer to that question in MR in the past, but can't remember. Thanks again for everyone's input.
Ron

[Anonymous]

1/2 is too thin for stand alone. If you use it put plywood under it. Use 3 inch and you can glue it right to the frame. Liquid nails works good as does any water based cement/glue. Avoid organic solvents, ie acetone, esters, gasoline. In a yard you would put the track right on the foam, or make roadbed and ditches with a knife. You start at the top and dig down instead of the bottom and build up. Do it backwards from the old way. If you go too deep plaster or spackling sticks good. You can use acetone to dig with, but I don't really recommend it. BTW I live in Aurora... 35 miles west of Springfield.

[Anonymous]

1/2 is too thin for stand alone. If you use it put plywood under it. Use 3 inch and you can glue it right to the frame. Liquid nails works good as does any water based cement/glue. Avoid organic solvents, ie acetone, esters, gasoline. In a yard you would put the track right on the foam, or make roadbed and ditches with a knife. You start at the top and dig down instead of the bottom and build up. Do it backwards from the old way. If you go too deep plaster or spackling sticks good. You can use acetone to dig with, but I don't really recommend it. BTW I live in Aurora... 35 miles west of Springfield.

[cacole]

Homasote is, to open a can of worms here, crappy. It's pressed, recycled paper that swells up or shrinks with changes in humidity, and is so densely compressed that it is hard to drive a track nail into it without pre-drilling a small hole. A much better product, in my opinion, is sound board (Upson board) which should be available at your local Home Depot or Sutherlands in the insulation section. It's a brown fiber product that appears to be made from ground up peanut shells or some such item, and does not swell up or shrink with humidity variations. Sound board comes in 1/2 inch thick 4x8 foot sheets. It's best to use two layers glued together with caulking compound, and pin your track in place with plain sewing straight pins instead of track nails. The Cochise & Western Model Railroad Club in Sierra Vista, AZ has it's entire 20 x 40 foot layout built on hollow-core doors and sound board. To view this club layout, go to http://users.ssvecnet.com/cacole

[cacole]

Homasote is, to open a can of worms here, crappy. It's pressed, recycled paper that swells up or shrinks with changes in humidity, and is so densely compressed that it is hard to drive a track nail into it without pre-drilling a small hole. A much better product, in my opinion, is sound board (Upson board) which should be available at your local Home Depot or Sutherlands in the insulation section. It's a brown fiber product that appears to be made from ground up peanut shells or some such item, and does not swell up or shrink with humidity variations. Sound board comes in 1/2 inch thick 4x8 foot sheets. It's best to use two layers glued together with caulking compound, and pin your track in place with plain sewing straight pins instead of track nails. The Cochise & Western Model Railroad Club in Sierra Vista, AZ has it's entire 20 x 40 foot layout built on hollow-core doors and sound board. To view this club layout, go to http://users.ssvecnet.com/cacole

[Anonymous]

I found that in LA most lumber yards carry homasote. After spending a lot of time experimenting with how to cut the stuff, I use a Makita circular saw and reciprocating saw with sharp blades. I hold my shop vac next to the cutting to suck up the mess. I have gotten pretty good at cutting the stuff without making a huge mess.

[Anonymous]

I found that in LA most lumber yards carry homasote. After spending a lot of time experimenting with how to cut the stuff, I use a Makita circular saw and reciprocating saw with sharp blades. I hold my shop vac next to the cutting to suck up the mess. I have gotten pretty good at cutting the stuff without making a huge mess.

[wp8thsub]

"Homasote is, to open a can of worms here, crappy. It's pressed, recycled paper that swells up or shrinks with changes in humidity, and is so densely compressed that it is hard to drive a track nail into it without pre-drilling a small hole. A much better product, in my opinion, is sound board (Upson board)..."

OK, since you opened the can, in I go...

I've used Homabed for nearly 20 years and have yet to encounter a roadbed product I could recommend more highly. Homabed is very stable dimensionally and I've never encountered a problem with changes due to humidity; soak it during ballasting and it doesn't move. I have often stated a belief that Homasote catches blame for dimensional changes in inadequately constructed benchwork and subroadbed. After all, it's only paper so it has to be the weak link, right? I hand lay a lot of track with Micro Engineering's small spikes, but haven't had problems inserting the spikes into Homasote, nor have I had to drill pilot holes.

Upson Board is also pressed paper. I used a lot of it on my last layout and wouldn't touch it again. Unlike Homasote, it tended to delaminate if too much water got on it during scenery construction. It swelled unevenly, absorbing more water around spike holes and not returning to its previous size and shape. It seems a lot of products get referred to as Upson Board (I know that's what mine was since it had the Upson label on it), so it's possible we're thinking of somewhat different materials (or there are different types made by the same company).

As usual, your mileage may vary...

[wp8thsub]

"Homasote is, to open a can of worms here, crappy. It's pressed, recycled paper that swells up or shrinks with changes in humidity, and is so densely compressed that it is hard to drive a track nail into it without pre-drilling a small hole. A much better product, in my opinion, is sound board (Upson board)..."

OK, since you opened the can, in I go...

I've used Homabed for nearly 20 years and have yet to encounter a roadbed product I could recommend more highly. Homabed is very stable dimensionally and I've never encountered a problem with changes due to humidity; soak it during ballasting and it doesn't move. I have often stated a belief that Homasote catches blame for dimensional changes in inadequately constructed benchwork and subroadbed. After all, it's only paper so it has to be the weak link, right? I hand lay a lot of track with Micro Engineering's small spikes, but haven't had problems inserting the spikes into Homasote, nor have I had to drill pilot holes.

Upson Board is also pressed paper. I used a lot of it on my last layout and wouldn't touch it again. Unlike Homasote, it tended to delaminate if too much water got on it during scenery construction. It swelled unevenly, absorbing more water around spike holes and not returning to its previous size and shape. It seems a lot of products get referred to as Upson Board (I know that's what mine was since it had the Upson label on it), so it's possible we're thinking of somewhat different materials (or there are different types made by the same company).

As usual, your mileage may vary...

[dknelson]

Maybe I should clarify that I have plywood benchwork, flat topped using the David Bararow domino technique, over which I place homasote subroadbed, over which I put cork or foam roadbed for the mainline, while sidings are on the homasote itself.

There is also a prefab roadbed made of upson board which is useful for radius curve templates. I have had it in my basement for a few years and it does warp a little. I have not sealed it however whereas all my homasote is sealed, even the stuff I have waiting to cut.

I am also using some foam (cut with a hot wire) for a creek valley area where the flat top benchwork is not appropriate. It will work just fine but I do not conclude from that that foam is more modern and homasote old fashioned. I would concede that as a building material homasote might be old fashioned and outdated which is probably why it is found less and less often. I wonder if it is less likely to be found in areas that have termites?
Dave Nelson

[dknelson]

Maybe I should clarify that I have plywood benchwork, flat topped using the David Bararow domino technique, over which I place homasote subroadbed, over which I put cork or foam roadbed for the mainline, while sidings are on the homasote itself.

There is also a prefab roadbed made of upson board which is useful for radius curve templates. I have had it in my basement for a few years and it does warp a little. I have not sealed it however whereas all my homasote is sealed, even the stuff I have waiting to cut.

I am also using some foam (cut with a hot wire) for a creek valley area where the flat top benchwork is not appropriate. It will work just fine but I do not conclude from that that foam is more modern and homasote old fashioned. I would concede that as a building material homasote might be old fashioned and outdated which is probably why it is found less and less often. I wonder if it is less likely to be found in areas that have termites?
Dave Nelson

[n2mopac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307

1/2 is too thin for stand alone. If you use it put plywood under it. Use 3 inch and you can glue it right to the frame. Liquid nails works good as does any water based cement/glue. Avoid organic solvents, ie acetone, esters, gasoline. In a yard you would put the track right on the foam, or make roadbed and ditches with a knife. You start at the top and dig down instead of the bottom and build up. Do it backwards from the old way. If you go too deep plaster or spackling sticks good. You can use acetone to dig with, but I don't really recommend it. BTW I live in Aurora... 35 miles west of Springfield.

Tanks again. I suppose I failed to mention that in my yards I plan to use a plywood subroadbed base with 1/2" foam on top. I considered the 2" or 3" stuff, but I don't want to make the entire bast too thick which I think this would do. I have 2" on hand for scenery, but think I will use 1/2" on plywood for my yard purposes. (I'm just outside Sedalia, 100 miles or so north of you)

[n2mopac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307

1/2 is too thin for stand alone. If you use it put plywood under it. Use 3 inch and you can glue it right to the frame. Liquid nails works good as does any water based cement/glue. Avoid organic solvents, ie acetone, esters, gasoline. In a yard you would put the track right on the foam, or make roadbed and ditches with a knife. You start at the top and dig down instead of the bottom and build up. Do it backwards from the old way. If you go too deep plaster or spackling sticks good. You can use acetone to dig with, but I don't really recommend it. BTW I live in Aurora... 35 miles west of Springfield.

Tanks again. I suppose I failed to mention that in my yards I plan to use a plywood subroadbed base with 1/2" foam on top. I considered the 2" or 3" stuff, but I don't want to make the entire bast too thick which I think this would do. I have 2" on hand for scenery, but think I will use 1/2" on plywood for my yard purposes. (I'm just outside Sedalia, 100 miles or so north of you)