How many new Big Boys/Challengers do we need?

[Anonymous]

How many Big boys/Challengersdo we need? As many as we dont need! Then again How many F-7's do we need?

[Anonymous]

How many Big boys/Challengersdo we need? As many as we dont need! Then again How many F-7's do we need?

[Anonymous]

As a UP modeler uninterested in DCC, I'm pleased that Athearn Genesis is doing the Challenger as an analog version, although I could do without the extra-cost sound as well. I don't find any sound system on the market sufficiently realistic. The Rivarossi model is dated (compare the detail and operating characteristics to a Broadway Limited Class A) and due to the July 10 bankruptcy of the Lima group (which owns Riva) it may disappear from the marketplace along with their Big Boy. I'll probably be selling my two Riva Challengers to buy the Genesis 3985.

Both the Trix Big Boy and the Lionel Challenger are way overpriced. Trix/Marklin have always been very expensive, so their Big Boy's price is no surprise. It does leave a niche between the Riva model's price/quality and the Marklin model for someone else like Genesis or Broadway Limited to compete.

It was asked how many Big Boys or Challengers we need. My response to this is how many F units or RS2/3's do we need? Right now, Athearn makes two lines of F units, and Intermountain, Stewart, Proto 1000, MRC and Roco are all in that market too. Kato recently did the RS2 and now we have one from Proto 1000. At one time we had RS3's from MDC, Stewart and Atlas simultaneously. Meanwhile, we don't have an SD24 or RSD15 "Alligator"... but we do have DL109's and Erie-builts! Bizarre.

In terms of steam, I'd agree we need more variety, but I'm not interested in kettles. If I want switchers for the 1950's, I'll run an NW2 or S2. Give me 2-10-4's, 2-10-2's, 4-8-4's and 4-8-2's. Broadway Limited shows a lot of promise in this sense with their Pennsylvania J1, which can be used to produce a C&O T1 as well. If Riva is bust, perhaps they'll do a UP FEF/NYC Niagara (they're very similar).

David

[Anonymous]

As a UP modeler uninterested in DCC, I'm pleased that Athearn Genesis is doing the Challenger as an analog version, although I could do without the extra-cost sound as well. I don't find any sound system on the market sufficiently realistic. The Rivarossi model is dated (compare the detail and operating characteristics to a Broadway Limited Class A) and due to the July 10 bankruptcy of the Lima group (which owns Riva) it may disappear from the marketplace along with their Big Boy. I'll probably be selling my two Riva Challengers to buy the Genesis 3985.

Both the Trix Big Boy and the Lionel Challenger are way overpriced. Trix/Marklin have always been very expensive, so their Big Boy's price is no surprise. It does leave a niche between the Riva model's price/quality and the Marklin model for someone else like Genesis or Broadway Limited to compete.

It was asked how many Big Boys or Challengers we need. My response to this is how many F units or RS2/3's do we need? Right now, Athearn makes two lines of F units, and Intermountain, Stewart, Proto 1000, MRC and Roco are all in that market too. Kato recently did the RS2 and now we have one from Proto 1000. At one time we had RS3's from MDC, Stewart and Atlas simultaneously. Meanwhile, we don't have an SD24 or RSD15 "Alligator"... but we do have DL109's and Erie-builts! Bizarre.

In terms of steam, I'd agree we need more variety, but I'm not interested in kettles. If I want switchers for the 1950's, I'll run an NW2 or S2. Give me 2-10-4's, 2-10-2's, 4-8-4's and 4-8-2's. Broadway Limited shows a lot of promise in this sense with their Pennsylvania J1, which can be used to produce a C&O T1 as well. If Riva is bust, perhaps they'll do a UP FEF/NYC Niagara (they're very similar).

David

[cacole]

Well, somebody is obviously buying these Big Boys and Challengers or there wouldn't be so many coming out. Not too long ago Rivarossi was the only game in town if you wanted a Big Boy; now there are at least 3 and possibly 4 different ones from which to choose, and at least two, Trix and Lionel, come with DCC and sound already installed! If Rivarossi were still the only game in town there would be nothing with DCC and sound already installed because Rivarossi doesn't seem to be interested in even putting a DCC plug into theirs. Competition is wonderful for the marketplace and prices -- bring 'em on!!

[cacole]

Well, somebody is obviously buying these Big Boys and Challengers or there wouldn't be so many coming out. Not too long ago Rivarossi was the only game in town if you wanted a Big Boy; now there are at least 3 and possibly 4 different ones from which to choose, and at least two, Trix and Lionel, come with DCC and sound already installed! If Rivarossi were still the only game in town there would be nothing with DCC and sound already installed because Rivarossi doesn't seem to be interested in even putting a DCC plug into theirs. Competition is wonderful for the marketplace and prices -- bring 'em on!!

[jimmac230]

Come on let's say enough is enough, I do admire the both of them, but how many different versions of the same locomotives do we need. How about some different versions of the Mikados, Pacifics, Santa Fe 2-10-2s and Atlantics on the market also more than just 3 different versions of the Northern/Niagara/Daylight 4-8-4s. I agree that competition is good for the market.

[jimmac230]

Come on let's say enough is enough, I do admire the both of them, but how many different versions of the same locomotives do we need. How about some different versions of the Mikados, Pacifics, Santa Fe 2-10-2s and Atlantics on the market also more than just 3 different versions of the Northern/Niagara/Daylight 4-8-4s. I agree that competition is good for the market.

[on30francisco]

I think there are enough big locos on the market. I'm in On30 and luckily Bachmann makes smaller locos for that scale such as 0-4-0 and 0-4-2 Porters, 2-6-0 Moguls, and other smaller prototypes. While I have nothing against large locos, they require a large amount of space and very broad curves to operate properly. What is needed are some smaller high-quality locos especially in HO and larger scales.

[on30francisco]

I think there are enough big locos on the market. I'm in On30 and luckily Bachmann makes smaller locos for that scale such as 0-4-0 and 0-4-2 Porters, 2-6-0 Moguls, and other smaller prototypes. While I have nothing against large locos, they require a large amount of space and very broad curves to operate properly. What is needed are some smaller high-quality locos especially in HO and larger scales.

[Fergmiester]

None! that's why they built the Allegheny!!

[Fergmiester]

None! that's why they built the Allegheny!!

[Anonymous]

Well I just back into the hobby
I have an entire garage to use
I have 250 feet of mainline with 36" radius curves
I did all of this so I can run bigboys.
As for all of the manufacturers of bigboys
I can only see two Trix and Bowser
Rivarossi is dead Hornby will take a while to make one if they do at all
And Rivarossi never made one with all the new rp-25 wheels and new motor DCC ready. Bower...please not everyone is an old pro at building from a complete broken down kit.
As for challengers Lionel and Athearn again its the same story with Rivarossi out of stock and gone.
I havent heard any decent reviews on Lionels so that really means there is only one to pick from.
I know how most everyone here despises UP so now your next objective is to get manufacturers to quit making it... thanks alot for trying to sqaush my dreams of what my layout should look like I guess you will all form a angry mob and go town to town ripping out anyones layout who models UP.

thanks for making my hobby un fun

[Anonymous]

Well I just back into the hobby
I have an entire garage to use
I have 250 feet of mainline with 36" radius curves
I did all of this so I can run bigboys.
As for all of the manufacturers of bigboys
I can only see two Trix and Bowser
Rivarossi is dead Hornby will take a while to make one if they do at all
And Rivarossi never made one with all the new rp-25 wheels and new motor DCC ready. Bower...please not everyone is an old pro at building from a complete broken down kit.
As for challengers Lionel and Athearn again its the same story with Rivarossi out of stock and gone.
I havent heard any decent reviews on Lionels so that really means there is only one to pick from.
I know how most everyone here despises UP so now your next objective is to get manufacturers to quit making it... thanks alot for trying to sqaush my dreams of what my layout should look like I guess you will all form a angry mob and go town to town ripping out anyones layout who models UP.

thanks for making my hobby un fun

[Anonymous]

I'm personally happy to see all the big UP steam on the market. I can't wait for the Genesis Challenger, and if my budget permits, I'd someday like to get a Rivarossi Big Boy with an Allegheny motor in it or a Trix Big Boy. Though, I wish someone would make a 4-6-2, particularly an SP or SOU one.
A real good idea would be for someone to come out with a "Modern Steam Excursion fleet". 844, 3985, 3751, 611,765, and 1218 have been done. Now we need a 261, an 819, a good 4449 (Spectrum is supposively working on one now), a 1522, a 6325, and a 1225. BLI, P2K, Genesis, Spectrum, are you listening?

[Anonymous]

I'm personally happy to see all the big UP steam on the market. I can't wait for the Genesis Challenger, and if my budget permits, I'd someday like to get a Rivarossi Big Boy with an Allegheny motor in it or a Trix Big Boy. Though, I wish someone would make a 4-6-2, particularly an SP or SOU one.
A real good idea would be for someone to come out with a "Modern Steam Excursion fleet". 844, 3985, 3751, 611,765, and 1218 have been done. Now we need a 261, an 819, a good 4449 (Spectrum is supposively working on one now), a 1522, a 6325, and a 1225. BLI, P2K, Genesis, Spectrum, are you listening?

[Anonymous]

WellI agree that the need more challengers like we need another f7, but at the same time, obviously someone is buying them. I would if i had the cash. My layout is small but it is handling the proto 2-8-8-2 with ease.

at the same time, more (different) 2-8-2, 2-8-0, 4-4-2, 4-6-2 4-6-0 models would be nice. Especially variations for the major prototypes. UP versions of all of those would get my $$ (if accurate).

[Anonymous]

WellI agree that the need more challengers like we need another f7, but at the same time, obviously someone is buying them. I would if i had the cash. My layout is small but it is handling the proto 2-8-8-2 with ease.

at the same time, more (different) 2-8-2, 2-8-0, 4-4-2, 4-6-2 4-6-0 models would be nice. Especially variations for the major prototypes. UP versions of all of those would get my $$ (if accurate).

[Anonymous]

When I first got into the hobby, you could purchase an AHM, (RIV built), a Gem or a Tenshodo Big Boy. That was about thirty five years ago, and I believed the market was satuarated for the UP Big Boy then.

But guess what, all of the models that are listed above in this Subject have sold along with Key, Overland, and many in O scale and a few in number 1 scale are cost 12000 and more. They all keep selling and as long as the market is there, they will keep making them..

I do wish some of the new companies now would make the NP Z8 and a few of the larger engines like the DM&IR M4, but they make what is known to sell. We keep buying and they keep making them.

PS I forgot to add, we need more Big Boys and I am sure the new Key models coming out will be purchased in due time. Trix models are still out there and just maybe someone else will bring out their version when the time is right.


I would hope we will see more of the running qualities of the Trix and maybe the detail of the higher end sound engines combined to give us all the best engines that money can buy.

[Anonymous]

When I first got into the hobby, you could purchase an AHM, (RIV built), a Gem or a Tenshodo Big Boy. That was about thirty five years ago, and I believed the market was satuarated for the UP Big Boy then.

But guess what, all of the models that are listed above in this Subject have sold along with Key, Overland, and many in O scale and a few in number 1 scale are cost 12000 and more. They all keep selling and as long as the market is there, they will keep making them..

I do wish some of the new companies now would make the NP Z8 and a few of the larger engines like the DM&IR M4, but they make what is known to sell. We keep buying and they keep making them.

PS I forgot to add, we need more Big Boys and I am sure the new Key models coming out will be purchased in due time. Trix models are still out there and just maybe someone else will bring out their version when the time is right.


I would hope we will see more of the running qualities of the Trix and maybe the detail of the higher end sound engines combined to give us all the best engines that money can buy.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JimdeBree

You know I would really like to see a Trix version of the SP cab forward. I am extremely happy with my Trix Big Boy (#4013) and I have seen the 4015. Both are great locos.

Sweet. A Trix AC-11. Percise running, diecast, LED equiped, super Cabforward with well darkened rods. [^]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JimdeBree

You know I would really like to see a Trix version of the SP cab forward. I am extremely happy with my Trix Big Boy (#4013) and I have seen the 4015. Both are great locos.

Sweet. A Trix AC-11. Percise running, diecast, LED equiped, super Cabforward with well darkened rods. [^]

[railman]

I don't know..all we hear is how manufactures are releasing less and less to drive up prices, and then we have two limited scope models come out within months of each other! I don't get it....

F-units can be explained because of all the roads that used them...many paint scemes, many people to sell to. But a challenger? That's a one road band, there.
Not that I'd complain if Athearn modeled the Hiawatha tommorrow, but I think it's a classic case of two companies that will undercut each other until both lose money and pull out. That said, isn't Lionel already throwing the towel in? I don't know for sure.

Sorry if that rambled...it's 4AM and I'm up for some reason.

[railman]

I don't know..all we hear is how manufactures are releasing less and less to drive up prices, and then we have two limited scope models come out within months of each other! I don't get it....

F-units can be explained because of all the roads that used them...many paint scemes, many people to sell to. But a challenger? That's a one road band, there.
Not that I'd complain if Athearn modeled the Hiawatha tommorrow, but I think it's a classic case of two companies that will undercut each other until both lose money and pull out. That said, isn't Lionel already throwing the towel in? I don't know for sure.

Sorry if that rambled...it's 4AM and I'm up for some reason.

[Anonymous]

Challengers were not only used by U.P., D&RGW, N.P. and many other roads used them. However, they did not all resemble U.P.'s so are not a direct match. Even though there are no N.P. Challengers available (which arn't brass) I still don't think we need Challengers, either!!!!

[Anonymous]

Challengers were not only used by U.P., D&RGW, N.P. and many other roads used them. However, they did not all resemble U.P.'s so are not a direct match. Even though there are no N.P. Challengers available (which arn't brass) I still don't think we need Challengers, either!!!!

[Virginian]

Well, I don't think I need any, because the N&W and VGN didn't have either one. I wouldn't mind a Y6 or Y6b though. If anyone comes out with a 2-6-6-6 in VGN or undecorated I may have to spring for one of those too. I long ago admitted I just love big steam. Of course, I like the smaller stuff too.

[Virginian]

Well, I don't think I need any, because the N&W and VGN didn't have either one. I wouldn't mind a Y6 or Y6b though. If anyone comes out with a 2-6-6-6 in VGN or undecorated I may have to spring for one of those too. I long ago admitted I just love big steam. Of course, I like the smaller stuff too.

[twhite]

I see this thread has been revived, probably because of Lionel's bowing out of the market and Rivarossi being bought by Hornby. Which looks like it's down to Genesis for the UP Challenger and Trix for the UP Big Boy. Which in my opinion, is about where it ought to be: two evidently good and relatively affordable models of a particular type of locomotive that is particular to one given road. Now with that out of the way, if the manufacturers want to come out with some more big steam, let's see Challengers for the NP, WP, D&RGW and WM, locos that were NOT based upon the UP design. And maybe some 2-8-8-4's (NP, SP, Missabe) and some simple 2-8-8-2's (Rio Grande, C&O,WP, GN). Granted, the UP articulateds are popular--the Challenger because of excursion service and the Big Boy for all the hype--but other roads sported some pretty impressive articulated power, and I think models of some of them would probably sell just as well, once people take a good look at them. The Rivarossi Allegheny is a good example--a locomotive particular to just two railroads, C&O and Virginian, both Eastern coal haulers. One would normally think that even with the limited quantity run that no one except a C&O or Virginian fan would purchase this handsome behemoth, but just try and find one, these days, even on the net. I have one working my Sierra Nevada grades and it looks right at home, because it's big and handsome (and a real puller!). So there ARE customers out there for other articulateds, all the manufacturers have to do is listen.
Tom

[twhite]

I see this thread has been revived, probably because of Lionel's bowing out of the market and Rivarossi being bought by Hornby. Which looks like it's down to Genesis for the UP Challenger and Trix for the UP Big Boy. Which in my opinion, is about where it ought to be: two evidently good and relatively affordable models of a particular type of locomotive that is particular to one given road. Now with that out of the way, if the manufacturers want to come out with some more big steam, let's see Challengers for the NP, WP, D&RGW and WM, locos that were NOT based upon the UP design. And maybe some 2-8-8-4's (NP, SP, Missabe) and some simple 2-8-8-2's (Rio Grande, C&O,WP, GN). Granted, the UP articulateds are popular--the Challenger because of excursion service and the Big Boy for all the hype--but other roads sported some pretty impressive articulated power, and I think models of some of them would probably sell just as well, once people take a good look at them. The Rivarossi Allegheny is a good example--a locomotive particular to just two railroads, C&O and Virginian, both Eastern coal haulers. One would normally think that even with the limited quantity run that no one except a C&O or Virginian fan would purchase this handsome behemoth, but just try and find one, these days, even on the net. I have one working my Sierra Nevada grades and it looks right at home, because it's big and handsome (and a real puller!). So there ARE customers out there for other articulateds, all the manufacturers have to do is listen.
Tom