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How many new Big Boys/Challengers do we need?

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Anonymous
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How many new Big Boys/Challengers do we need?
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 6:51 PM
With the news that Lionel is to release a Challenger, on top of of all the other manufacturers of Big Boys and Challengers, I ask "How many new incarnations of UP's Big Boy-Challenger do we need"?

Could we not have some other road apart from UP or N&W. There are plenty of prototypes to choose from without trundling out the same old models.

If we must have a UP articulated how about a 'Bull-Moose'?
"Santa Fe All the way Downunder"
[:(]
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Anonymous
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How many new Big Boys/Challengers do we need?
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 6:51 PM
With the news that Lionel is to release a Challenger, on top of of all the other manufacturers of Big Boys and Challengers, I ask "How many new incarnations of UP's Big Boy-Challenger do we need"?

Could we not have some other road apart from UP or N&W. There are plenty of prototypes to choose from without trundling out the same old models.

If we must have a UP articulated how about a 'Bull-Moose'?
"Santa Fe All the way Downunder"
[:(]
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 7:04 PM
Frankly, all these big articulateds overwhelm most layouts. A realistic train is 40-50 cars long. Who has space for that? I would rather see more engines like Bachman is building. I would like to see another 2-8-0, perhaps Pennsy for the east and ATSF or SP for the west. How about an IC mike or pacitic or Southern? I realize that manufacturers have to sell to a market and a lot of railroads don't have a large fan base, but if someone built one of these I would get one because they run well, and fit the layouts I operate on.
cheers to all
Ken Skolyan
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 7:04 PM
Frankly, all these big articulateds overwhelm most layouts. A realistic train is 40-50 cars long. Who has space for that? I would rather see more engines like Bachman is building. I would like to see another 2-8-0, perhaps Pennsy for the east and ATSF or SP for the west. How about an IC mike or pacitic or Southern? I realize that manufacturers have to sell to a market and a lot of railroads don't have a large fan base, but if someone built one of these I would get one because they run well, and fit the layouts I operate on.
cheers to all
Ken Skolyan
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 9:40 PM
The Athearn Challengers sound the most promising, as they have already stated they will be doing non UP versions. Here's hoping for a Western Maryland version.

As for Lionel, I hope they take other successful O scale models and do them in HO, namely the B&O EM-1.

Jason
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 9:40 PM
The Athearn Challengers sound the most promising, as they have already stated they will be doing non UP versions. Here's hoping for a Western Maryland version.

As for Lionel, I hope they take other successful O scale models and do them in HO, namely the B&O EM-1.

Jason
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rmurray1
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Posted by rmurray1 on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 9:44 PM
What I would like to see are more smaller steam locomotives built to the same quality that we've come to expect from models today. Bachmann is doing this but in On30. It would be nice to see some in HO. (I've been pushing for some new standard quailty Americans for a while.) I owned a Big Boy for a while but you really need a large layout for these beasts.
Richard Murray www,zidim.com
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rmurray1
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Posted by rmurray1 on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 9:44 PM
What I would like to see are more smaller steam locomotives built to the same quality that we've come to expect from models today. Bachmann is doing this but in On30. It would be nice to see some in HO. (I've been pushing for some new standard quailty Americans for a while.) I owned a Big Boy for a while but you really need a large layout for these beasts.
Richard Murray www,zidim.com
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:51 PM
I love the fact that MR manufactures brave the market to produce new and better running and looking STEAM Loco's. In this case, MORE IS BETTER. I do wi***he manufactures would POLL modelers more often to see what the majority would be willing to buy. For example; almost every railroad had some form of HUDSON type steam engine in their roster, yet only NYC's seem to be offered, and even they are in dire need of a drive overhall. I truely wish Athern or Bachmann would grab this one and let the steam build.
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:51 PM
I love the fact that MR manufactures brave the market to produce new and better running and looking STEAM Loco's. In this case, MORE IS BETTER. I do wi***he manufactures would POLL modelers more often to see what the majority would be willing to buy. For example; almost every railroad had some form of HUDSON type steam engine in their roster, yet only NYC's seem to be offered, and even they are in dire need of a drive overhall. I truely wish Athern or Bachmann would grab this one and let the steam build.
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 17, 2003 4:08 AM
"How many new incarnations of UP's Big Boy-Challenger do we need"?




Depends who the "we" is I guess...if it's me, "we" don't need them at all.
If it's locomotive collectors, I guess they need them.
If it's UP modellers with huge layouts, I guess they need them.

There was an obvious trend at this past years' trainshow club layouts, big expensive locomotives hauling trains that didn't fit either the era or the type of train that the prototype hauled. You had locomotive owners hauling CN grain cars with a C&O 2-6-6-6, Pennsy hopper cars hauled by a NYC 4-6-4, even an SP passenger train behind a UP Big Boy.....anything goes, so anything sells, especially the big, impressive, expensive steam models.
regards / Mike
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 17, 2003 4:08 AM
"How many new incarnations of UP's Big Boy-Challenger do we need"?




Depends who the "we" is I guess...if it's me, "we" don't need them at all.
If it's locomotive collectors, I guess they need them.
If it's UP modellers with huge layouts, I guess they need them.

There was an obvious trend at this past years' trainshow club layouts, big expensive locomotives hauling trains that didn't fit either the era or the type of train that the prototype hauled. You had locomotive owners hauling CN grain cars with a C&O 2-6-6-6, Pennsy hopper cars hauled by a NYC 4-6-4, even an SP passenger train behind a UP Big Boy.....anything goes, so anything sells, especially the big, impressive, expensive steam models.
regards / Mike
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RicHamilton
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Posted by RicHamilton on Thursday, July 17, 2003 7:45 AM
While i do think a better quality loco is a good step forward I have the same feeling that jfparker did about F units. How many F units from different manufacturers are needed. There are many locos out there that aren't being produced.

Ric
Berwick, NS
Ric Hamilton Berwick, NS Click here to visit my Website
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RicHamilton
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Posted by RicHamilton on Thursday, July 17, 2003 7:45 AM
While i do think a better quality loco is a good step forward I have the same feeling that jfparker did about F units. How many F units from different manufacturers are needed. There are many locos out there that aren't being produced.

Ric
Berwick, NS
Ric Hamilton Berwick, NS Click here to visit my Website
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the-big-blow
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Posted by the-big-blow on Friday, July 18, 2003 1:43 PM
HOW ABOUT A THREE UNIT GAS TURBINE!!!!
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the-big-blow
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Posted by the-big-blow on Friday, July 18, 2003 1:43 PM
HOW ABOUT A THREE UNIT GAS TURBINE!!!!
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 18, 2003 4:24 PM
The manufacturers make what they think will sell. I'm always happy to see a better-made model, but I don't need a Big Boy at all. I don't need a Challenger either. Frankly, the market for UP and SP locomotives far outstrips what the operators need, but I guess the collectors will buy them.

I don't see why any manufacturer produces a model of an odd-ball locomotive, such as the old IHB 0-8-0. The recent trend to offeriing USRA steam is a welcome change, as are the "generic" Baldwin 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 models. These can be used realistically on many prototypes -- they could even be offered with variation parts.

For me, I'd like to see an earlier vintage 4-6-2 in HO. Selfishly, I'd prefer it be a Southern Railway Ps-2.
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 18, 2003 4:24 PM
The manufacturers make what they think will sell. I'm always happy to see a better-made model, but I don't need a Big Boy at all. I don't need a Challenger either. Frankly, the market for UP and SP locomotives far outstrips what the operators need, but I guess the collectors will buy them.

I don't see why any manufacturer produces a model of an odd-ball locomotive, such as the old IHB 0-8-0. The recent trend to offeriing USRA steam is a welcome change, as are the "generic" Baldwin 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 models. These can be used realistically on many prototypes -- they could even be offered with variation parts.

For me, I'd like to see an earlier vintage 4-6-2 in HO. Selfishly, I'd prefer it be a Southern Railway Ps-2.
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 18, 2003 5:14 PM
I wonder who they think are buying these locomotives in this tight economy, and why they have to be so bloody big? If you ask me, it's all part of the trend in the industry away from young modelers with limited space and budgets towards the retiring wealthy boomers with big basements who can afford to have everything ready to run, from locomotives to layouts. Although MR seems to have turned away from this to focus on more reasonably sized items, they still regularly publish layout plans with 24" minimum radii to accommodate large locos like these.

I too am glad to see smaller shortline locomotives coming out -- How many 10-wheelers, Americans and Pacifics do we need? How about an NYC F-12 or NH G-4 10-wheeler, a short Pacific such as the NH I-2, and a late American. Don't get me wrong -- articulateds were spectacular, but how many of us can afford them? You can have a dandy operation with 3 short locomotives for the price of one of these monsters, and that's what I think would help the hobby's growth, not unattainable gargantuan trophy locos.
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 18, 2003 5:14 PM
I wonder who they think are buying these locomotives in this tight economy, and why they have to be so bloody big? If you ask me, it's all part of the trend in the industry away from young modelers with limited space and budgets towards the retiring wealthy boomers with big basements who can afford to have everything ready to run, from locomotives to layouts. Although MR seems to have turned away from this to focus on more reasonably sized items, they still regularly publish layout plans with 24" minimum radii to accommodate large locos like these.

I too am glad to see smaller shortline locomotives coming out -- How many 10-wheelers, Americans and Pacifics do we need? How about an NYC F-12 or NH G-4 10-wheeler, a short Pacific such as the NH I-2, and a late American. Don't get me wrong -- articulateds were spectacular, but how many of us can afford them? You can have a dandy operation with 3 short locomotives for the price of one of these monsters, and that's what I think would help the hobby's growth, not unattainable gargantuan trophy locos.
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 18, 2003 5:46 PM
I really don't mind all of the new steamers coming out but what I really have a problem with is that they all insist on doing the same one. If we must have a "new" Challenger then lets make it a new one. Everybody seems to be doing the later versions with no-one attempting the earlier re-numbered 3800 classes. The new Rivarossi drive and body, whilst dated, still works fine. I model Cajon and this loco will pull 35 cars up a 1.75% grade.

I too would like to see other loco's built. Again as said by someone else I selfishly would like to see some of my home road loco's produced. The 3800 class 2-10-2 for Santa Fe comes to mind. This hasn't been done even in brass for over 20 years, I myself would sign up for 9 of these puppies.

And whats the deal with sound, if I want it I can put it in myself. Buying loco's already sound equipped adds to the cost and then means that if all your other equipment is not sound equipped so the one loco that is becomes the odd man out so to speak.

Come on guys Poll the modellers out there and see if you can come up with something other than UP. If we must have UP articulateds then again what about the "Bull Moose" there were other railroads out west.
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 18, 2003 5:46 PM
I really don't mind all of the new steamers coming out but what I really have a problem with is that they all insist on doing the same one. If we must have a "new" Challenger then lets make it a new one. Everybody seems to be doing the later versions with no-one attempting the earlier re-numbered 3800 classes. The new Rivarossi drive and body, whilst dated, still works fine. I model Cajon and this loco will pull 35 cars up a 1.75% grade.

I too would like to see other loco's built. Again as said by someone else I selfishly would like to see some of my home road loco's produced. The 3800 class 2-10-2 for Santa Fe comes to mind. This hasn't been done even in brass for over 20 years, I myself would sign up for 9 of these puppies.

And whats the deal with sound, if I want it I can put it in myself. Buying loco's already sound equipped adds to the cost and then means that if all your other equipment is not sound equipped so the one loco that is becomes the odd man out so to speak.

Come on guys Poll the modellers out there and see if you can come up with something other than UP. If we must have UP articulateds then again what about the "Bull Moose" there were other railroads out west.
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 19, 2003 9:57 AM
Who has the space for a large Loco I have a average size layout and this loco is just to big for me.How about smaller steam that will pull more cars in other words how about some weight in the steamers and no traction tires.I have 1 to 2 percent grades and need to have trains with 10 cars, is this to much to ask?
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 19, 2003 9:57 AM
Who has the space for a large Loco I have a average size layout and this loco is just to big for me.How about smaller steam that will pull more cars in other words how about some weight in the steamers and no traction tires.I have 1 to 2 percent grades and need to have trains with 10 cars, is this to much to ask?
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ellisjamesrobertson
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Posted by ellisjamesrobertson on Saturday, July 19, 2003 11:09 AM
When we get all these Challengers, Athearn, Lionel, and a new one from Challenger imports - maybe Model Railroader will do a comparative on all all three (and any others that may have appeared by then!) in the same issue.

Ellis James-Robertrson

Worcester, England
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ellisjamesrobertson
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Posted by ellisjamesrobertson on Saturday, July 19, 2003 11:09 AM
When we get all these Challengers, Athearn, Lionel, and a new one from Challenger imports - maybe Model Railroader will do a comparative on all all three (and any others that may have appeared by then!) in the same issue.

Ellis James-Robertrson

Worcester, England
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cbq9911a
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Posted by cbq9911a on Saturday, July 19, 2003 9:56 PM
We don't need any more "new" big U. P. steam. There are a finite number of layouts that can handle big articulateds properly.

The steam engines we really need are the ones currently running (or have run recently): Milwaukee Road 261 (4-8-4), C & NW 1385 (4-6-0), GTW 6325 (4-8-4), Frisco 1630 (2-10-0), "WM 734" (ex LS&I 2-8-0), GW 90 (2-10-0).

These are the engines that younger (post steam) modelers can relate to.
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cbq9911a
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Posted by cbq9911a on Saturday, July 19, 2003 9:56 PM
We don't need any more "new" big U. P. steam. There are a finite number of layouts that can handle big articulateds properly.

The steam engines we really need are the ones currently running (or have run recently): Milwaukee Road 261 (4-8-4), C & NW 1385 (4-6-0), GTW 6325 (4-8-4), Frisco 1630 (2-10-0), "WM 734" (ex LS&I 2-8-0), GW 90 (2-10-0).

These are the engines that younger (post steam) modelers can relate to.
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, July 20, 2003 10:41 AM
Please see the forum concerning the Lionel announcment for other reactions to Lionels pricing, not good by any means.
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Anonymous
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, July 20, 2003 10:41 AM
Please see the forum concerning the Lionel announcment for other reactions to Lionels pricing, not good by any means.
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