Support your local train shop ?...

[rolleiman]

Don't hold back now.. Tell us what you Really think.. The best one around here closed about 6 or 7 years ago (I'm not certain why, it wasn't for lack of My support) and I've been buying online since. Don't miss the brick shops one bit, largely for the same basic reasons you list. Inflation.. For stuff that's been on the shelves for months and even years. Bull.

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rolleiman

Don't hold back now.. Tell us what you Really think.. The best one around here closed about 6 or 7 years ago (I'm not certain why, it wasn't for lack of My support) and I've been buying online since. Don't miss the brick shops one bit, largely for the same basic reasons you list. Inflation.. For stuff that's been on the shelves for months and even years. Bull.

Hey there rolleiman. What can I say. I was really ticked off and disappointed in the guy after doing business with him all these years. He use to be okay, and would cut you a deal every now and then, but not anymore. And like you said, he's got stock that's been on the shelves for YEARS that he won't come down on, and it will probably still be on the shelves years from now... Oh well. I could care less because I'm not doing business with him anymore. I doesn't break my heart that I won't have that long drive all the way across town through all of that heavy traffic and road construction anymore either...

Tracklayer

[BlackCloud]

I try to buy from the local shops as often as possible. I'd rather pay a few more bucks to support the people that will help me get a faulty engine or mis-cast sprue back to the manufacturer when I don't have anywhere to turn. I'd also much rather have that mom-and-pop hobby shop there than another resale shop or taco stand.

[RedGrey62]

I cannot condone him "popping off" but there may be a lot more to the story. I've owned my own retail business, not a hobby shop, and every year the cost to operate went up. Whether it was rent, insurance, inventory, etc, its just more expensive to run a store and the cost has to cash has to come from somewhere. Our basic rent was almost 2000 and the average sale was about 20 dollars per person, thats 100 sales per months or about 3 per day just to meet rent. It can be very frustrating, to say the least, to run a small business like that. Again, I am not defending his attitude, but you may have caught him on a bad day too.

Rick

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RedGrey62

I cannot condone him "popping off" but there may be a lot more to the story. I've owned my own retail business, not a hobby shop, and every year the cost to operate went up. Whether it was rent, insurance, inventory, etc, its just more expensive to run a store and the cost has to cash has to come from somewhere. Our basic rent was almost 2000 and the average sale was about 20 dollars per person, thats 100 sales per months or about 3 per day just to meet rent. It can be very frustrating, to say the least, to run a small business like that. Again, I am not defending his attitude, but you may have caught him on a bad day too.

Rick

No Rick. This guy does a good business, and probably takes in no less than $1,000.00 a day. He's just gotten real greedy and irritable lately.

TL

[CP5415]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer
No Rick. This guy does a good business, and probably takes in no less than $1,000.00 a day. He's just gotten real greedy and irritable lately.

TL

Are ya sure about how much he's making TL? Maybe his costs have gone up?
Cities usually don't blink about raising taxes. Same with utulity companies.
Do you have any idea how much it costs to run a small business?
You have to factor in a lot of stuff before you even think about making a profit.
Rent, taxes, business supplies, heat, electricity, salaries etc etc etc.
Does anyone here have any idea what small business can do for a community?
The higher taxes they usually pay keep your home taxes low.

Anyone who starts ranting about the prices in a small shop should consider one thing.

WHAT HAPPENS IF THE SAME THING HAPPENS TO THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR?
ONE THING & ONE THING ONLY
UN-EMPLOYMENT FOR THE EMPLOYEES!!!!!
No matter how big your company is, this is what's going to happen, especially in the manufacturing sector.
Look at what's going on at GM & Ford! Close to 50000 people will no longer have a job due to ever increasing costs, largely due to employee costs.

I've always supported my LHS & will continue to do so even if I can get things cheaper on the WWW.

If anyone here loses their job over this, don't come crying here because I can guarantee it will not be tolerated.

End of rant

Gordon

[RedGrey62]

Tracklayer, understood. Obviously I don't have first hand information on the specifics of his shop so I'll take you word for it that he makes fairly good money each day.

That being said, I do prefer going to shops instead of the internet. I have several reasons, many already mentioned here, some more basic in principle dealing with community and fellowship.

Hopefully he comes to his senses and at least tries to establish or re-establish some repore with his customers.

Rick

[bcawthon]

Can't condone the attitude, but we all need to get used to prices going up. Costs of everything from plastic to shipping are increasing. I work with a manufacturer and we are looking at monthly variances in container shipping costs where we used to be able to plan at least 3-6 months at a time. And those variances could tack 25% on to our shipping costs.

Cost of money is going up, too, along with the costs of insurance and other things required to run a business. And it costs money to keep inventory on the shelf, especially stuff that has taken up long-term residence. That's money that isn't available for rent or new products. Sure, the owner can have a clearance, but how much revenue does he need to give up to move the old stuff? Or does he wait for that guy who will walk in and say, "I'm so GLAD you have these, I've been looking for them for years" and happily pay full price? Believe me, that guy exists - he's been me more than once.

I am not against buying on the Internet or eBay (though I am personally very cautious about eBay - you never know where that stuff has been). I did mail order for years for stuff like bulk track purchases. And I know a lot of us are getting pinched between prices that are going up faster than our paychecks. But I still like going down to my LHS and seeing the products and being able to go home with them that day.

Could be the owner of your LHS was crabby because he knew what the response would be from his customers but couldn't avoid raising his prices. Of course, if he wants to keep a bad attitude, he had better get used to losing customers.

Bill C.

[simon1966]

It sounds like a store on the slipery slope to oblivion. Any business owner knows that a large price increase has the potential to lose customers, especially in a market where there is lots of pricing competition. Your description sounds like a man who is just clinging on. Probably not cutting it with the old pricing and even less likely to cut it with the new pricing. It is possible to run a successful business with higher pricing than the competition, but you have to have demonstratable value added to justify the difference. Painless return policy, help and assistance getting setup, valuable advice are examples of things that a bricks and mortar store can offer that have value in the eyes of some customers. Unfortunately for this owner, price hike and attitude will result in his demise.

[jecorbett]

I wouldn't chalk this up to greed. Businesses are in business to maximize profits. They set their prices based on their judgement about what customers like you are willing to pay. If they set their prices too high, they will sell less merchandise and make smaller profits. If other customers feel the way you do, that is what will happen to him. Customers vote with their dollars. That is the way free markets work whether we are talking about your LHS or Exxon-Mobil. They were criticized for making 11 billion dollars last quarter. Why is that bad? They did what any corporation is supposed to do. They maximized shareholder value. If you don't like what they are charging at the pump, drive less or get a more fuel efficient car. The only thing that POed me about that is I didn't own their stock.

As for me, I buy from both my LHS and online. I am concerned about price but service and convenience enter into the equation as well. Sometimes I don't want to wait 3-5 days for an order to arrive. My

[Anonymous]

Ah yes the internet. It is a blessing and curse at the same time. The blessing is that pricing is competitive, the curse is the loss of personal one-on-one service.

My kids are the real MMR of the family, I just manage the money end for now. But if it were not for our LHS, I think my kids would be done with the hobby. The two gentlemen that run the store have really saved us from ourselves. Interestingly, they actually told me to buy an item from the net since they could not come close to the price offered. A manufacture recently announced a price hike and they posted the letter so their customers would know what was going on. With that type of customer care, I do my best to support them whenever I can.

That being said, if their attitude changed overnight, I doubt I support them for too much longer. Yet, they do talk about how difficult it is to run a hobby shop. They may be retiring soon and feel that the shop space is worth more than the shop.

I hear the same complaints in the musical instrument biz. Still some LMS survive because of the people and not the prices.

[Medina1128]

Before you condemn him, there are some points you need to remember:
1) Almost everything associated with our hobby is made from plastic (oil).
2) Everything in his store had to be shipped to him and he had to pay for it.
3. I am lucky in that my hobby shop (not too local. It's about 70 miles away) still has special discounts every Saturday.
4. The discount houses will be soon to follow with price hikes, as well. And how long was it since the last price hike at your LHS?

[Anonymous]

Atlas just had a 10% increase in their prices, but they did announce it well ahead of time. But the kicker of it for me was our LHS increased the prices on all his Atlas that he already in stock, now this is down right dirty if you ask me! The guy who owned the store before him never did that.

[MidlandPacific]

Remember - oil prices are pretty high, and oil's a key component of plastics. John Glaab from Peach Creek Shops has posted a note on his website suggesting that Bachmann may be considering a big price increase to offset increased costs. And that's before you start thinking about the costs of heating oil.

Why not take advantage of it yourself - buy Exxon Mobil stock? That's what I did......

[jecorbett]

QUOTE: Originally posted by swdave

Atlas just had a 10% increase in their prices, but they did announce it well ahead of time. But the kicker of it for me was our LHS increased the prices on all his Atlas that he already in stock, now this is down right dirty if you ask me! The guy who owned the store before him never did that.

Why is that dirty. When he sells those Atlas engines, he is going to have to replenish his stock at higher prices. When Atlas raised their prices it put upward price pressure on everyone who sells their products. Your LHS still has to compete against other LHS and internet retailers. If you can find Atlas cheaper elsewhere, buy it. If not pay the higher price or go without. There is nothing dirty about a businessman increasing the asking price for his merchandise. No one says you have to pay it.

[Anonymous]

I worked in a hobby shop once where the owner had me re-sticker existing old stock to reflect the newer retail price. In other words, he bought the merchandise a year or two before the price went up, but wanted the new retail price on them. The computer inventory labels he used did not come off - so I had to place the new one over the old one. Usually a well-trained eye could read the numbers beneath.

[Anonymous]

The local train shop here is kind of cool. The owner will mark down inventory that has been on the shelves for over a year. Not everything, but it's common to see "red tags" on items on any given month. Usually the sale prices are close to wholesale too. He also has occasional sales where "All Athearn 25% off this month" is up on the dry erase board. Or "All books..." or "All paints..." etc.

There ARE some good hobby shops still standing out there!

[Anonymous]

I enjoy buying from my local hobby shops. I like having someone who can aswer questions and provide service if I need repair/replacement parts.

BUT I know I pay more for it. The cheapest hobby shop I've found in Dallas (Discount Trains) is still more than online (www.1stplacehobbies.com) I will still use them as long as I get good service and immediate products with no shipping.

There is no excuse for the glib answers he gave you however. He may be having a bad day or bad month but there is no excuse for bad customer service. I have worked retail and owned my own ar conditioning business. There is no excuse for bad customer service!

I would quit using that shop too. Hopefully you can find something else around you (with that drive...maybe not) Otherwise welcome to onlone shopping! [8D]

[Anonymous]

Well tracklayer if you want to see a real joke of a hobby store there are two hobbytown usa stores located here I would like you to meet. The owner would rather screw you than sell you something and service doesn't exist. His attitude is easily worse than what you encountered, anyone with a complaint he calls the police and throws them out of the store! Over and over and over again! This one man has done so much GOOD for other area businesses they hope he always stays in business, because everytime he pisses off someone, one of the smaller stores REAP big rewards. As for traveling, I know it is frustrating, but we do not learn where to shop until we buy from the scum bags that run a bad business. As for increasing rent, utilities etc. you can understand real fast WHY e-bay stores have taken off so well!

[Anonymous]

My LHS is a Hobbytown U.S.A. The owner owns one other, I believe. I have never been to the other, but I have heard nothing but good things about it.

Back on the subject of the local shop, the owner is flexible. Some items she/he discounts nada, but on others, she/he'll discount up to 50%! I got an Intermountain BN box car for $15, which was 50% off. She/he keeps her/his shelves stocked with HO, N, O, and G items. She/he also keeps local roadnames stocked, as well as some western roads. She/he always has at least one person in there that knows a bit about model railroading and the prototypes.

So, I'd say I'm pretty lucky.


Matt

[Anonymous]

I prefer my LHS because he has piles of Athearn b-b engines for a very reasonable price. And he's cheaper than most online retailers for new stuff. I shop on-line as much as i do at the LHS though.

[Anonymous]

I dont have first hand information but I can tell you that I was blessed with many good LHS's in the Baltimore/Gettysburg area while growing up. One I know of went under when he failed to keep up his mortage with the local bank. He finally went under simply because the store he once had for the people was little more than 4 walls with boxes on the floor in the later years. Sad.

There are several good LHS's here in Arkansas and I dont have the problems with the owners stated here. In fact they communicate very well, support the community and basically do the best they can for customers. I sometimes did not get a better price for a item but was happy to purchase it at the LHS because they deserve the business.

Keep in mind that Paints, parts, wheels and couplers probably make up a large part of the LHS sale. Kinda hard to maintain a living with food on the table at whatever small amount of gross comes in. Hopefully they will buy the Kits, RTR and locomotives from time to time.

Im sorry that you had the bad experiences with the store that increased prices and showed a bad attitude to boot. I encourage you to see that there are other fish in the sea.

Once or twice I hunted down OOP items on walthers.com using the LHS's that they shipped the items to. And each time I have contacted the store and was given just the same service as if I was actually physically walking in the front door. Wonderful stuff.

Stores like MB Klein in Baltimore Maryland and others have a strong presence on the net, you might actually enjoy doing business with them. They still have brick and mortor stores too but have changed with the modern times to keep the business rolling.

I think this really says that keeping the customer happy and feeling welcome is ultimately the best way to feed the family on a LHS business.

[ouengr]

Is it just me or are the hobby shops failing to understand what made Wal-Mart such a success. Wal-Mart makes money by selling an individual item at a minimal profit and driving customers into the store. In turn the customer buys more items and visits more oftern. Hobby Shops that charge MSRP or a premium do not recieve repeat business from me. I want hobby shops to be successfull, however they are in a world where they have to compete. I know of one LHS that has almost no inventory and everything that comes in is for a specific customer order. This was he inventory costs are kept way down and his prices generally reflect it.

Another possible option for the LHS is to offer consignment sales. Nearly every modeler I know has things that don't quite fit in their collections and that they would like to get rid of. The LHS I referred earlier has an extensive consignment section. The terms for the consignment are fairly simple. The LHS sells the the items and keeps a total that can be applied toward new items. In the event that the seller would prefer to take the cash out, he charges a fee for managing the sell of the items. Generally I have done quite well in the consignment sales. Generally I have been able to sell itmes for what I paid and this has kept me from spending cash out of my pocket for nearly two-years.

I don't mean to rant here, but I am sick and tired of hearing LHS whine and complain about competitors. This is part of the free market. My expereince is that many of the on-line retailers are trasitional brick and mortar stores that have expandded their businees through the internet. Some old LHS will not survive but others will thrive. The key is to figure out what you can do to gain and keep customers. The LHS that artificially jacked prices up 25% should reconsider this decision or start to consider a store closing clearance.

The costs assocaited with items in this hobby are rising far faster that the rate of inflation or wage increases. We need to vote with our money and demand lower prices from the LHS and manufacturers. If we do not continue to apply pressure to lower prices, then there is nothing to control them. We all want to be able to purchase more stuff for less money. If we don't hold the retail sector's feet to the fire on inflation, then the situation will only get worse. I enjoy the hobby and I want to see it expand. Prices are already at the point where many people don't even consider the model railroading due to the costs.

[Anonymous]

Walmart will not sell the quality items you might get at the LHS.

I think walmart had a trainset in HO but is really JUNKY when compared to similar LHS offerings for a few dollars more. To have a GOOD product is a must in this hobby today. (Kaydee, Metal wheels, can motors or even dcc with flywheel and 8 wheel pick up etc....)

Sure we can sell trainsets to kids today who might be tomorrow's LHS customer buying brass. So let;s make them sets really guud. Hanh?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Hobby Shops that charge MSRP

you should NEVER pay msrp. My LHS discounts 35% off msrp for most things.

[loathar]

I don't mind paying a little more if the service is good but I hate that "your keeping me from my sandwich" attitude. I was just thinking back to the service I've gotten over 35 years of shopping and I can only remember 2-3 shops out of about 30 that didn't have bad attitudes. I'm the one doing them a favor by dropping my ca***here. NOT the other way around. I've given up on shop loyalty.

[Milwhiawatha]

I have a hobbytown USA where I live and its a great place to visit and the owner is awsome infact he was talking about me coming in to run the train department when its done and I know almost nothing compared to the most of people. I also have the luxuary of visiting Walthers Showroom to get my items was there yesterday always friendly people there.

[Anonymous]

I agree with Tracklayer here. I don't know about you but 25 dollars is quite a price hike to me and as for the guy not willing to come down on the price of the car with the busted coupler, I'd walk out too. I don't pay full price for damaged goods.

[RedGrey62]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ouengr

Is it just me or are the hobby shops failing to understand what made Wal-Mart such a success. Wal-Mart makes money by selling an individual item at a minimal profit and driving customers into the store. In turn the customer buys more items and visits more oftern.

Sorry, the Wal Mart solution doesn't work here. It works for Wal Mart because they sell so much stuff, everything from food to electronics and toys to clothes. Their buying power also allows them to get much lower prices from the manufacturers (personally I call it brow beating the companies to play ball). Don't get me wrong, it works, but it will not work for a LHS. Caboose Hobbies may be able to do it, but they have a nationwide following, same with some of the bigger on-line stores.

This may suprise many of you, but one of the main reasons I buy locally is taxes. When I ran my retail store, I had so many folks proud of the fact that they bought from QVC or on-line and didn't have to pay sales tax. Instead, they lined the pockets of those companies with the "shipping and handling" charges which rarely add up to what they're charging. The sales tax they saved would have been less than the S&H charges, plus those taxes go towards little things like police, fire, ambulance, libraries, schools, roads, etc.

But that, is for another thread altogether!

Rick

[rtraincollector]

Yes there are great deals to be had via the internet especialy EBAY but how great are they really okay you won that $100.00 engine on ebay for $78.00 and how much did the guy charge you to shipp (watch out some will slap $20.00) just because its an easy number . and if its broke or something else is wrong you have to pay to send it back remember that. And some sell as is and that even means if its broke when you get it new in the box.

Now Yes I do a lot of online business and I bid with the above in mind And I still deal with my local hobby shop as he's a person who wants to earn your business and I sell stuff in his store thru him even where he keeps a percentage of the sale which normally I can add to my selling price as theres still nothing that beats being able to see, feel, and test what your buying and being able to take it home with you right then and not have to wait any where from 3 days to a month later to get it (ie person accepts personal checks but waits 2 weeks for them to clear befor shipping and then ships parcel post which normally takes 10 days to get )

So if you have a guy you think is grumpy find another shop bet there is one about 50 miles or so in the other direction from you . If you where willing to drive 50 miles to goto him .

But in all The internet is great avenue but remember the down side when you make adecision list bad of both and good of both and see which you like better

RT

[Anonymous]

I was shopping for train products yestarday. It was my typical spring run, I spent about $550 at 5 different shops in a 40 mile radius, and nothing at the Hobbytown USA stores I was talking about earlier. This one shop has an owner who has absolutely NO business sense at all. All of his large inventory of HO railroad products are mixed up manufacturers, uneven box pilings falling off of shelves. I have been looking for two specific coal cars I missed the manufacturing date. Couldn't find them on e-bay, so I am looking everywhere. Sure enough in the mess of boxes in this guy's store is two and only two cars I have spent months looking for. I almost gave up and left because of his lack of organization, it was a last second look as I was starting to walk out, I found them. Today I am laughing about it, but yestarday I was in some nice organized stores, then I go in his, what a difference. Most stores here do not discount off MSRP, but one of them offered me discounts if I buy/order from them on any item. Each business REALLY has its own way of doing business!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by loathar

I hate that "your keeping me from my sandwich" attitude.

Yep sounds like you've been to Oddo's train and hobbies in McKeesport, PA. Basically the guy had the personality of a warthog and the place looked like a dark, dingy, old dungeon. Basically a complete hole in the wall. I had a question about paint for a CSX engine and his reply was What the hell kind of an engine would be gray and blue? (Despite the glaring fact CSX runs near his shop.) So as a result I did my shopping elsewhere.

I like to feel like when I go to a shop the owner is paying attention to me the customer and not his sandwich or the ballgame. I like to feel welcome. I'm not saying I expect huzzahs and handstands and them to roll out the red carpet but a friendly hello and answers to my questions is fair if I'm going to be spending money in your shop.


Hmmm maybe this could be why "the hobby is dying". Maybe idiots like him chased all the young customers out. Any hobby or business that doesn't get any new members often dies.

[bryanbell]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RedGrey62
Sorry, the Wal Mart solution doesn't work here. It works for Wal Mart because they sell so much stuff, everything from food to electronics and toys to clothes. Their buying power also allows them to get much lower prices from the manufacturers (personally I call it brow beating the companies to play ball). Don't get me wrong, it works, but it will not work for a LHS.

I agree completely. I use to work for Wal Mart and I saw the way the manufacturers were treated. To Wal Mart it was a privilege for their stores to carry the product and they strong-armed manufacturers into getting the lower prices.
The Wal Mart model doesn't work for a LHS because Wal Mart sells consumable goods and general merchandise. There is a lot bigger market of people wanting a low price on the newest DVD release than people looking for the lowest price on a 20 pack of #5 Kadees.
A moderately busy Wal Mart can make more in one day than most LHS can make in a year. They sell in very large volumes, the cost of each sale goes down the more sales you have.
Even if the guy does sell $1000 a day and assuming he's grossing 50% of that on each item, which he probably isn't, that is only $500 a day. $500 a day doesn't go very far when you have to pay the rent, the utilities, the insurance etc. Plus the guy isn't there on a volunteer basis, he has to take a salary.
Obviously the guy is shooting himself in the foot with his bad customer service and you can't defend that but a price increase is a natural part of business. A smart business person usually doesn't make such a dramatic increase in prices that suddenly but price increases are a fact of business.

Bryan

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by swdave

Atlas just had a 10% increase in their prices, but they did announce it well ahead of time. But the kicker of it for me was our LHS increased the prices on all his Atlas that he already in stock, now this is down right dirty if you ask me! The guy who owned the store before him never did that.

He was entirely justified in doing that, it is just common business sense. When he orders the track next time he has to pay the increased price, if he does not mark up the new stock, then he will not have the capital to pay for that track.

In addition once that new track comes in it will have the new higher sticker price. Some states like Ohio where I live have a law that if two boxes of the same item have different prices on them the customer can insist by law that he get the lower price on both boxes. So again it is just common business practice to have all items of the same thing with the same price

Rick

[Anonymous]

I also stopped buying at the local train shop here in northern Virginia due to the owners greed. The store has always charged close to full retail but I still did thousands of dollars worth of business a year there, just to support the shop. Could have saved 30% or better off almost everything I bought there by calling MB Klein's.

Anyway, I pre ordered two Atlas engines at the shop last year. The policy there is that pre-orders must be paid in full before the items arrive at the store or you don't get the BIG 15% discount he offers on pre-orders. Well, I forgot. The engines came in and I picked them up and went to pay. They were rung up at full price and I asked what about the discount. I was reminded that they hadn't been paid for in full so I was going to have to pay full price. I said "come on man, you're kidding right" and the owner relented and gave me the discount, but not without making a very big deal over it and telling me it was the last time he'd be that nice to me.

Well, this shop has been steadily losing business over the last couple of years due to dwindling stock, narrow selection, hell he even wasn't stocking magazines....and here he is telling on of his best customers-me- to pretty much take a walk, and I have. His loss, my gain as I'm doing all my business with MB Kleins now.

Some of you might say he was just sticking to company policy but I see it differently, I thought I'd earned some consideration by being a good customer for several years but I guess I hadn't. This guy can't can't see the forest for the bottom line.[V][V][:(!]

[bcawthon]

Wal-Mart is one of the leading reasons for the demise of the toy market in America. The others are Target and Toys 'R Us. They are called category killers and the simple truth is their tremendous buying power has not just eliminated local competition but it has significantly reduced the variety of toys available. I have four children ranging in age from 8 to 23 and I have seen the choice in playthings winnowed down just in the time from my oldest's youth to my youngest's. Yes, it's "Always Low Prices" but it's also "Always Their Choices."

If you ever get a chance, go to the big toy fairs in New York or better yet, Nuremberg. You'll be amazed at what is offered and distressed by how little of it will show up in your town. Then visit iHobby Expo and think of how many of the items on display can be found at your LHS. It's far higher.

What your local hobby shop is is your showroom for model railroad products. It's where you can go and see the real products instead of pictures. It's where you can get the small items that can be tough to find at the big Internet hobby operations. It's where you can browse to find exactly what you want instead of exactly what they have or find a new product you might not have even known existed. It's where you can immediately get the track, styrene, stripwood or paint you ran out of in the middle of a project instead of waiting days or weeks or paying a king's ransom for express shipping. That's value and like most things of value it has a cost.

Like it or not, marking up existing inventory following a price increase is common practice, even at Wal-Mart. The selling price has to cover the cost of replacing the item. Of course, at Wal-Mart (or Target, or Best Buy), the change is as simple as replacing a shelf tag or peg hook label. Remember those $1.67 diecast cars everybody is so wild about? A new higher price of $1.97 is showing up and Wal-Mart isn't making a differentiation between what they had on the shelf before the increase and merchandise that arrived later. So why are you heaping opprobrium on a small business that has far less control over the pricing than Wal-Mart?

In addition, as Rick noted, that LHS is part of your community. It contributes taxes but more important the money it makes is mostly spent in your community. Think of all the things the owner of your LHS buys in your town, from business expenses, like mortgage or rent and office supplies, to living expenses. If you're a business owner, perhaps that LHS owner is one of your customers.

Of course, if the proprietor has a poisonous attitude, there's no reason to give him your custom. That's true of any business. But if you're demanding he or she compete with the world's largest retailer as a condition of your trade then, IMHO, you're contributing to the demise of one of our most precious hobby resources. Wal-Mart will win and we'll all lose.

[bwftex]

Tracklayer
Even though your 50 miles away and don't stand at his cash register every day but some how you are accurate in your assessment of his daily gross think about this. If he's doing a grand a day and keeping 20% and he may not be that's only about $1200 a week profit or around $62,500 before tax. Not exactly a big time income and hardly any living at all if he wants to grow his inventory even a little. While its wonderful if everyone had a smile on their face and gave out great deals you might consider that your hobby guy maybe just be doing what he thinks he must to make it. I know you were disappointed not to get the locomotive for the price you thought you would but then the guy may be "getting greedy" because he may have worked very hard and did not have a paycheck last month, last quarter or even last year. If you had to deal with the difficulties every single long day that he being in the retail business probably has too you might be irritable too. While you certainly don't have to shop with him you might stop to consider why he is irritated, greedy or disinterested. If you can stand in another persons shoes for just a moment you may still be disappointed but at least not angry and hurt enough to feel the need post messages telling everyone about it. Bruce

[RedGrey62]

All, this has been an interesting thread for me to follow. It probably grew into something more than Tracklayer was expecting, but good to share thoughts.

My advice Tracklayer, if this is the first time that you've had a bad experience with this shop, give them one more chance. I doubt if the prices will be back down the next time you go, but hopefully the proprietor will be a bit more friendly. If not, then tell him you are displeased (or whatever words you choose) and let him know that you will not be refering anyone to his store. Word of mouth is still the greatest advertiser of all.

Rick

[Anonymous]

Most train stores must be avoided due to high prices and rude owners
I bottom feed at trainshows and mail order. It is the only way to go.
If a store is full price, walk out with you wallet to send the owner a message.

[jecorbett]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ouengr


The costs assocaited with items in this hobby are rising far faster that the rate of inflation or wage increases. We need to vote with our money and demand lower prices from the LHS and manufacturers. If we do not continue to apply pressure to lower prices, then there is nothing to control them. We all want to be able to purchase more stuff for less money. If we don't hold the retail sector's feet to the fire on inflation, then the situation will only get worse. I enjoy the hobby and I want to see it expand. Prices are already at the point where many people don't even consider the model railroading due to the costs.

Excuse me, but we are already voting with our money. Sometimes we vote to pay the asking price and sometimes we vote not too. Every buyer wants make his purchase as cheaply as possible and every seller wants to sell his merchandise for as much as he can. In order for there to be a transaction, both buyer and seller have to find the middle ground they can both accept. That is how free markets work.

Some of you people talk as if merchants can name their price for their merchandise. Of course they can ask anything they want for what they have but if they want to stay in business, they have to sell at a level the marketplace will support. If there are enough buyers willing to pay the higher prices, you can't blame merchants for charging them.

[Anonymous]

Yep sounds like you've been to Oddo's train and hobbies in McKeesport, PA. Basically the guy had the personality of a warthog and the place looked like a dark, dingy, old dungeon. Basically a complete hole in the wall.

Talk about taking me back to the old days, it was a dive 20 years ago, cant imigine what it is now. LOL However when i was home i visited Bill and Walts in white Oak and he is well on his way to that dump destination also. Plus while i was there i heard the owner tell a person with a brand new, unopened package that there were no refunds even for broken product. He offered to sell her glue to fix the problem. I high tailed it out of there.

I have 4 hobby shops to chose from, each different in its own way. I have Just Trains which is huge, great prices, fantastic staff, however they can;t seem to get things ordered that you want, so its a in stock only kinda place. One is Mitchels and they still have a great selection of paint and glue, however their stock of trains is old to older and still full MSRP even stuff thats 15 years old. I also go up to the choo choo barn in strasburg, they are MSRP, but are fantastic when it comes to detail parts and scratch building parts in stock.

However i don't believe that every shop should discount every purschace you make. I like having a shop close by for paints that i can go get at 8 pm at night, so i pay for that convience. If the other LHS had to raise its prices, well thats just life right now, everything is going up if you havn;t noticed. And that may be out of their control.
However BAD ATTITUDES are completely under their control. If their in your shop they are going to spend money, how much will depend on their ability to get you interested in new things. The whole reason, the whole reason i'm back into trains is because a nice LHS owner took the time to work me back into the hobby. THe result, over 10,000 worth of sales all mostly thru him.
In the end the human factor will be the deciding factor. Perhaps if the LHS owner had just taken the time and explained in a calm, logical manner, he could have perhaps avoided the posters wrath.
Bill

[PennsyHoosier]

Less and less at the LHS. More and more at the train shows and especially ebay. It is a very vicious circle and one that concerns me greatly. On the other hand, if I want to feed my kids AND keep up the hobby, I have to work to find the deals.

Oh for the simpler times!

[Anonymous]

Like any business, a shop owner has to be fair and friendly if they want to continue making sales. We have all received less than great treatment in other types of stores besides train shops and usually find a better place to shop if that happens.

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bwftex

Tracklayer
Even though your 50 miles away and don't stand at his cash register every day but some how you are accurate in your assessment of his daily gross think about this. If he's doing a grand a day and keeping 20% and he may not be that's only about $1200 a week profit or around $62,500 before tax. Not exactly a big time income and hardly any living at all if he wants to grow his inventory even a little. While its wonderful if everyone had a smile on their face and gave out great deals you might consider that your hobby guy maybe just be doing what he thinks he must to make it. I know you were disappointed not to get the locomotive for the price you thought you would but then the guy may be "getting greedy" because he may have worked very hard and did not have a paycheck last month, last quarter or even last year. If you had to deal with the difficulties every single long day that he being in the retail business probably has too you might be irritable too. While you certainly don't have to shop with him you might stop to consider why he is irritated, greedy or disinterested. If you can stand in another persons shoes for just a moment you may still be disappointed but at least not angry and hurt enough to feel the need post messages telling everyone about it. Bruce

Okay bwfex. The first time I see you expressing your anger or disappointment on this forum if or when someone wrongs you, I'll be sure and remind you of your "wise words"...

TL

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Shermanhill1

Most train stores must be avoided due to high prices and rude owners
I bottom feed at trainshows and mail order. It is the only way to go.
If a store is full price, walk out with you wallet to send the owner a message.

Now this is what I'm talking about...

Thank you Shermanhill1

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ouengr

Is it just me or are the hobby shops failing to understand what made Wal-Mart such a success. Wal-Mart makes money by selling an individual item at a minimal profit and driving customers into the store. In turn the customer buys more items and visits more oftern. Hobby Shops that charge MSRP or a premium do not recieve repeat business from me. I want hobby shops to be successfull, however they are in a world where they have to compete. I know of one LHS that has almost no inventory and everything that comes in is for a specific customer order. This was he inventory costs are kept way down and his prices generally reflect it.

Another possible option for the LHS is to offer consignment sales. Nearly every modeler I know has things that don't quite fit in their collections and that they would like to get rid of. The LHS I referred earlier has an extensive consignment section. The terms for the consignment are fairly simple. The LHS sells the the items and keeps a total that can be applied toward new items. In the event that the seller would prefer to take the cash out, he charges a fee for managing the sell of the items. Generally I have done quite well in the consignment sales. Generally I have been able to sell itmes for what I paid and this has kept me from spending cash out of my pocket for nearly two-years.

I don't mean to rant here, but I am sick and tired of hearing LHS whine and complain about competitors. This is part of the free market. My expereince is that many of the on-line retailers are trasitional brick and mortar stores that have expandded their businees through the internet. Some old LHS will not survive but others will thrive. The key is to figure out what you can do to gain and keep customers. The LHS that artificially jacked prices up 25% should reconsider this decision or start to consider a store closing clearance.

The costs assocaited with items in this hobby are rising far faster that the rate of inflation or wage increases. We need to vote with our money and demand lower prices from the LHS and manufacturers. If we do not continue to apply pressure to lower prices, then there is nothing to control them. We all want to be able to purchase more stuff for less money. If we don't hold the retail sector's feet to the fire on inflation, then the situation will only get worse. I enjoy the hobby and I want to see it expand. Prices are already at the point where many people don't even consider the model railroading due to the costs.

I've got a Walmart story for you...

I've wanted a Robosapien robot since they first came out, but you couldn't touch one for less than about $100.00 at places like Best Buy. Over the course of the last year I've watched them slowly come down to $89.95 at Target, $74.95 on ebay and even down to $60.00 after this past Christmas at some Walmarts. I've also seen them used on ebay go for $50.00 or more. Well, the other night I had to run to the local Walmart to get dog food for my dog Buddy, and saw one in the clearence rack for $49.00 that the box had been torn into by kids and taped back up, so I took it up to the night manager and asked him if he could cut me a deal. He looked it over and said - I can come down $3.00 which will make it $46.00, and then I'll give you my employee discount on top of that which will make it $35.00... I shook the man's hand and did the deal. So I now have a really cool Robosapien sitting on my desk that I got for about one third of what they originally cost. That's just one of the many reasons why I support Walmart!.

TL

[aloco]

I stiill do, but usually if I need supplies, like paint and brushes, glue, building material, etc. If there's a piece of rolling stock I happen to like I'll buy it, but I don't buy locomotives from hobby shops any more.

[jimrice4449]

An interesting thread. I can join the discussion from an objective spectator's perspective since I live 75 miles from the nearest LHS which pretty much limits me to mail/phone orders and have a commercial connection w/ the hobby the lets me get most stuff at dealer net.
Some of the posts talk about getting a 35% discount. The standard retail discount is 40% for HO & N and. 30% for O. Much of the high end HO is only 30%. I can't see how anybody can consistantly offer 35% off of MSRP, pay the rent, utilities and put food on the table, The internet dealers do it by paying minimal rent, location not being a factor, and making their profit on a volume greatly larger than that possible to the LHS.
Only two of the posts peripherally mentioned a factor that could wind up turning around and biting all of us in the butt. Where are the new MRRs comming from if there's no local source of inspiration and advice? Occasionally somebody starts a topic wondering about the average MRR age approaching geriatric status. How are we to keep the hobby viable without new blood and how do the newcommers get that spark that starts the fire if all of the local sources have dried up due to internet competition?

[bcawthon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Shermanhill1

Most train stores must be avoided due to high prices and rude owners
I bottom feed at trainshows and mail order. It is the only way to go.
If a store is full price, walk out with you wallet to send the owner a message.

While you're down there with the catfish and attorneys, ponder this:

When the store closes, will you get the message?

"We never know the value of water 'til the well is dry." English proverb

[earthqu8kes]

hey! someone been to bruce's train shop in Sacramento, CA. the closest hobby shop to me. and also the largest in northern california.prices arent that bad. got 3 walthers ballast car for $35.00.

Anders

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Some of the posts talk about getting a 35% discount. The standard retail discount is 40% for HO & N and. 30% for O. Much of the high end HO is only 30%. I can't see how anybody can consistantly offer 35% off of MSRP, pay the rent, utilities and put food on the table, The internet dealers do it by paying minimal rent, location not being a factor, and making their profit on a volume greatly larger than that possible to the LHS.

Yeah, a shop selling stuff for 35% off MSRP is selling himself into bankruptcy. I don't think many internet dealers can really survive at 5%.

Besides, that's an inadequate return. You'd be better off putting your money almost anywhere else, which is an age old economic maxim.

Mike Tennent

[Anonymous]

Having worked in a hobby shop a long time ago while in college I was going to respond to this thread by defending the hobby shop owner but I realize it would be a futile gesture. Each privately owned shop is different, some owners are as nice as can be and very willing to help the customer, while others are run by someone who apparently has lost interest and probably won't be there much longer.

Pesonally the LHS I deal with has pretty friendly employees and I give them some of my business. They are located less than a block from where I work and usually have a good stock of what I want on hand. They offer a 10% discount to club members and long time customers. They already mark down 5-10% on most items.

[emdgp92]

I've been to Oddo's in McKeesport as well. There were some long-discontinued kits in there, but that was about it. Goofy hours and somewhat rude staff kept me from going back.

Most of my hobby cash goes to A.B. Charles in Dormont. Their prices are slightly higher for some things, but I'd rather pay a bit more and get better service. Yes, I know I can get certain model car kits at Walmart for $5-10, but the trade-off is that you usually get poor service at Walmart. They also don't carry the best quality stuff either. I've been going to A.B. Charles roughly 15 years, and have *never* had a problem with them. They're more than willing to help me out. As a result, they have a pretty loyal following, and the shop is busy most nights.

There is another hobby shop near me, and I try to avoid that place. It's right by where Pool City was on Route 51. It's great for picking up engines for parts, or old model kits, but that's it. Most of his stuff is overpriced, and he's a bit on the rude side. Needless to say, there usually aren't many people in there!

[Anonymous]

When a bad train store closes everyone gets the message. The freemarketplace works out in the end.

[Adelie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcawthon
When the store closes, will you get the message?

"We never know the value of water 'til the well is dry." English proverb

I'm not exactly sure what message Tracklayer is supposed to get. Unless it is that if he doesn't spend his money with a business who provides no incentive for him to spend his money with them, they will go away. Somehow I'm not expecting him to shed a lot of tears or toss and turn all night over that possibility.

Shermanhill's nailed it, I think.

Tracklayer, if you care, my vote is that it is your money, spend it where you see fit.

[cwclark]

I'm with you Mark....I know exactly who you are talking about...but i really don't think it's totally his fault...you also have to remember that UP gets a 5% cut on all items bearing the UP logo which also includes railroads bought up by them, DRG&W, SP, MP, KATY, ect...another thing that is happening is like we all are doing...purchasing from the internet, his store is getting fewer and fewer patrons in it because the deals are better on the internet than in his shop...I still go there but only when i need a specialty item like CA glue, balsa wood, styrene, or brass and wire...these guys do have to make a living but yes, they are marking stuff up more than i'm willing to pay for it, so the internet is my new source to do business with...one more thing...the traffic on IH10, IH610, and US59 is horrible..I had to go thru it to get to the trainshow Saturday...what a hassle!....have you tried that place in Spring yet? (I think it's called the Spring Crossing) ...it's a pretty good hobby shop..unorganized as all get out ,but he does have a lot of stuff...chuck

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cwclark

I'm with you Mark....I know exactly who you are talking about...but i really don't think it's totally his fault...you also have to remember that UP gets a 5% cut on all items bearing the UP logo which also includes railroads bought up by them, DRG&W, SP, MP, KATY, ect...another thing that is happening is like we all are doing...purchasing from the internet, his store is getting fewer and fewer patrons in it because the deals are better on the internet than in his shop...I still go there but only when i need a specialty item like CA glue, balsa wood, styrene, or brass and wire...these guys do have to make a living but yes, they are marking stuff up more than i'm willing to pay for it, so the internet is my new source to do business with...one more thing...the traffic on IH10, IH610, and US59 is horrible..I had to go thru it to get to the trainshow Saturday...what a hassle!....have you tried that place in Spring yet? (I think it's called the Spring Crossing) ...it's a pretty good hobby shop..unorganized as all get out ,but he does have a lot of stuff...chuck

That's my tendency too. My LHS is okay. Not great, not terrible. Prices are quite high, service is pretty good but not stellar.

I typically go there for "supplies" more than equipment. I buy almost all my paint there, often buy materials I need quickly (i.e. I've run out of ground foam, need a turnout, hydrocal, etc.).

Occasionally I buy rolling stock - either something I just can't get anywhere else (I've bought several NOS sets of Rivarossi passenger cars in hard-to-find-anymore roadnames at a couple LHS), or that is discounted to a reasonable level. I haven't bought a loco in a store in ages - there's simply no way I can rationalize paying (often) 2-3x the price I can get the same item for from a mail-order house or new in the package off Ebay.

It's not that I'm unwilling to pay a little extra for the relevant advantages of the LHS. I know that in order to have a place I can go, browse, chat, ask, return, etc. he has to pay rent, utilities, payroll, etc. So I don't necessarily expect the LHS to "beat" the mailorder and internet crowd, and I'm even okay with that. But I need him to do a lot better...

Easiest example: Spectrum 3-truck Shay. You can get 'em for $100 from the usual mail order suspects, and several dealers on Ebay. My LHS asks full retail $275 for them... Can't do it. If he could find a way to do 'em for, say, $140, I might well pay the extra for the convenience factors - can look it over, can ask questions, have a place to bring it back if it's messed up, etc. But for literally 275% of what I can pay online or by mail... No.

[DigitalGriffin]

It is possible. Bachmann made notice of a price increase of 25% on all new stock (or somewhere there abouts.) So it's not entirely impossible.

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cwclark

I'm with you Mark....I know exactly who you are talking about...but i really don't think it's totally his fault...you also have to remember that UP gets a 5% cut on all items bearing the UP logo which also includes railroads bought up by them, DRG&W, SP, MP, KATY, ect...another thing that is happening is like we all are doing...purchasing from the internet, his store is getting fewer and fewer patrons in it because the deals are better on the internet than in his shop...I still go there but only when i need a specialty item like CA glue, balsa wood, styrene, or brass and wire...these guys do have to make a living but yes, they are marking stuff up more than i'm willing to pay for it, so the internet is my new source to do business with...one more thing...the traffic on IH10, IH610, and US59 is horrible..I had to go thru it to get to the trainshow Saturday...what a hassle!....have you tried that place in Spring yet? (I think it's called the Spring Crossing) ...it's a pretty good hobby shop..unorganized as all get out ,but he does have a lot of stuff...chuck

Hi Chuck. I take it that you know the exact place I'm talking about... It'll be a cold day in hell before I go back in that place again. The price hike was bad enough, but the way he acted about the damaged car took the cake - and wasn't the first time he's acted that way about things.

As for the guy out in Spring. There's another one. The last time I was in there he stood right over me the entire time I was in there because someone has been doing a lot of stealing and now he doesn't trust anyone. Plus, he'll never get an award for his personality...

I think I'll just stick with ebay and on-line train stores from now on.

So how was the train show out in Stafford ?. I was thinking about going, but had already blown my wad for the month on other things.

Tracklayer (Mark)

[bsteel4065]

I would support a local hobby shop if I had one. Living in the UK and being a US model railroader is a somewhat isolated hobby. The few shops there are over here that deal in US railroads are very few and are miles and miles away. And they tend to charge pound for dollar which is no joke. But, the internet is a dream for me. Just bought a Broadway 2-10-4 PRR at a cheaper price (including postage) than I would have to pay over here. Also, I have a friend in New York who will shop for me and then mail it on.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer

A friend and I went to our favorite train shop Thursday and were horrified to find that everything in the place had been marked up 25% and then some since our last visit two weeks earlier. When we made a comment to the owner about it, he popped off and said - What can I say guys, inflation... But in his case it's not so much inflation as it is just plain old greed...
I drove over fifty miles up there that day through some of the worst traffic in the southern US to buy a steam loco there that was $100.00 two weeks earlier that was now $125.00. Then to make things worse, I found a freight car with a broken coupler and asked him if he'd be willing to come down on it a little, but he replied - Nope, it can be fixed. Lay it down over here on the counter and I'll get to it later.
I didn't buy anything that day there and I'm not ever going to again. To hell with him and his shop!. From now on I'm buying everything off the web - namely ebay, which by the way I won that same loco on earlier tonight for $78.00 that he wanted $125.00 for... And train shop owners wonder why their businesses are going down the drain.

If you have a good train shop in your area with reasonable prices and an easy going owner, you're lucky...

Tracklayer

Who really cares if you buy anything from him or not? I'll bet he doesn't, with that pleasant attitute you have. Ever been in bidness? It ain't easy. It might be inflation more than greed than you think.

Driving 50 miles in Texas? That ain't crap in Texas. I drove 200 miles round trip yesterday to visit my LHS in Houston, and I'm not griping at all! Had a great time too. Of course, I went in there with the attitude that I was GONNA have a great time, I knew he had what I wanted, he had it at a fair price, and I shop there often enough that he gives me a discount. Not a lot, but he appreciates me coming in. Once he opened early for me and a friend because we forgot what time his store opened up and we got there early. Put on a pot of coffee, and let us look around to our heart's content. Spent over $200 with him that day. That cup of coffee was a pretty good investment for him, don't you think?

One other thing he said that I found interesting and kind of amusing. The Great American Train ripoff, oops, I mean Show was in Houston several weeks ago. He said there had been a steady stream of guys who had bought stuff at the show bringing it in to be fixed. Most of it never ran when they bought it, but they didn't know that. The vendors at the show didn't have a test track like he does. So when I pay a little more for a locomotive at the LHS, I tell em to take it out and let me see it run. Never had a problem.

Now, where you gonna go when your $78 locomotive has trouble? Call the guy back on e-bay and see if he'll fix it for you, or take it back to the horrible man at the store so he can fix it for you for next to nothing? So what DO you buy from this horrible ogre when you go into his shop? You aren't one of those guys who buys paint and gets your locomotives and rolling stock cheaper somewhere else are you? Oh wait, you already told us you do that.

You sure whine a lot for being a Texan.


dirt

[warhammerdriver]

Wish I had a LHS to do business with. [:(]

[phisig03]

It is frustrating. About 5 years ago I started somewhat dabbling in the hobby and I went to "Riders" which is the hobby shop around here of which they have numerous locations. I went to the one in Ypsilanti (it is pronounced IPS-A-LAN-TEE) which was near my school at Eastern Michigan University and their whole one side of their store was train stuff. Of course being in college, and a "frat boy," not to mention a new apartment every fall, I put MRR on the backburner. When I wanted to get some more stuff for it about a year later, they swapped it out and put the trains on the other side of the store and greatly reduced the size.

When moving into my house in Dearborn Heights, I visted the Riders in Canton and they had a good selection. Then I also visited the Riders in Livonia which had a smaller selection (they appeared to specilize in telescopes at this one). Thinking Canton had the best selection, I went back to that one and to my horror found it gone. I stopped in the Taylor store and they have the worst selection yet!!

So I had the luxury of going around and seeing which is the best for me. I am sure most of my stuff will come from ebay or other sites, but it will still be nice to just go and peruse all the things on the shelf, something you can't do without costant clicking on he computer. So I guess I'll stick with the Livonia store, they have a decent selection, nice staff and reasonable prices.

There is also a hardware store around me that is also a hobby shop but they seem to be the most expensive. I was also discusted to discover another independent hobby shop by my house which had not one train or train related product. And you call yourself a HOBBY SHOP?????

[Anonymous]

I shopped a Hobbytown USA in Augusta, GA. The owner opened early when I saw me outside, it was cold. Then I saw that some of his track, same item, different price. He said prices were always going up and he didn't have time to change prices. He sold it for the retail price it came in for. I shopped with him again the next time I was in town and will do so again when I am in town. Oh, I almost forgot. He gave me a discout the last time I was there. He says he doesn't carry a lot of sets but after Christmas he does a great business in add on's and repairs. Really a great guy to do business with. Phil

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by older than dirt

Who really cares if you buy anything from him or not? I'll bet he doesn't, with that pleasant attitute you have. Ever been in bidness? It ain't easy. It might be inflation more than greed than you think.

...{most of rant deleted for brevity}...

So what DO you buy from this horrible ogre when you go into his shop?

...{more worthless drivel deleted}

dirt

Oh. My. God. Do you even realize how ridiculous you are? I laughed myself sick at you after reading your post... I can't even know where to begin... Oh wait, I do know, I left it there above this in your quote just to remind me:

Bidness? Bidness??? You actually typed "bidness" on purpose? And your handle is 'older than dirt'... So what are you the world's oldest gangsta pimp wannabe? Grand Pappy O.G? Yeah, I'm taking you seriously.

And how terribly amusing... You used the word "ogre"... Aren't ogres sort of like cousins to... trolls?

In any case, wow. In only 5 days and 6 posts, you have definitely figured out that insults, condescension, and snottiness are the BEST way to get started on the right foot around here. It's a SURE WAY to make people pay a LOT of attention to your posts!

A lot of folks are going to tell me "DNFTT," and I'll heed their advice from now on. But on the off chance you're really just someone who just don't get it... BZZZZZT. The buzzer just went off and the giant red "not the way to go, dude" sign lit up... Sit the next turn out then try again. We like to see new folks come join the party, as long as they don't decide pi&&ing on the floor is the best way to introduce themselves...

But regardless, thanks for the laugh. I'm still getting a kick out of "bidness."

[tommyr]

Amen. Could'nt have said it better myself.
Tom

[Anonymous]

There are customers out there that know the prices of everything and the value of nothing. Then there are hobby shop owners who haven't a clue how to run a retail business. And then there is everything in between.

I shop everywhere. Local, internet dealers, mailorder and Ebay. I do what makes sense for me. For example, it might be worth it for me to buy my Digitrax system from my local dealer and pay full price. Why? Because I know if I have a question, and lord knows I have many when it comes to DCC, he's always happy to help me. If I want a new loco, I'll orobably shop the net or Ebay. If I need some Woodland Scenic stuff or some other odds and ends, I'll go local.

It's a give and take. If you have a local dealer who knows what he's doing, it's always good business to keep him as your friend - and that means give him some business in exchange for the service.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by older than dirt

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer

A friend and I went to our favorite train shop Thursday and were horrified to find that everything in the place had been marked up 25% and then some since our last visit two weeks earlier. When we made a comment to the owner about it, he popped off and said - What can I say guys, inflation... But in his case it's not so much inflation as it is just plain old greed...
I drove over fifty miles up there that day through some of the worst traffic in the southern US to buy a steam loco there that was $100.00 two weeks earlier that was now $125.00. Then to make things worse, I found a freight car with a broken coupler and asked him if he'd be willing to come down on it a little, but he replied - Nope, it can be fixed. Lay it down over here on the counter and I'll get to it later.
I didn't buy anything that day there and I'm not ever going to again. To hell with him and his shop!. From now on I'm buying everything off the web - namely ebay, which by the way I won that same loco on earlier tonight for $78.00 that he wanted $125.00 for... And train shop owners wonder why their businesses are going down the drain.

If you have a good train shop in your area with reasonable prices and an easy going owner, you're lucky...

Tracklayer

Who really cares if you buy anything from him or not? I'll bet he doesn't, with that pleasant attitute you have. Ever been in bidness? It ain't easy. It might be inflation more than greed than you think.

Driving 50 miles in Texas? That ain't crap in Texas. I drove 200 miles round trip yesterday to visit my LHS in Houston, and I'm not griping at all! Had a great time too. Of course, I went in there with the attitude that I was GONNA have a great time, I knew he had what I wanted, he had it at a fair price, and I shop there often enough that he gives me a discount. Not a lot, but he appreciates me coming in. Once he opened early for me and a friend because we forgot what time his store opened up and we got there early. Put on a pot of coffee, and let us look around to our heart's content. Spent over $200 with him that day. That cup of coffee was a pretty good investment for him, don't you think?

One other thing he said that I found interesting and kind of amusing. The Great American Train ripoff, oops, I mean Show was in Houston several weeks ago. He said there had been a steady stream of guys who had bought stuff at the show bringing it in to be fixed. Most of it never ran when they bought it, but they didn't know that. The vendors at the show didn't have a test track like he does. So when I pay a little more for a locomotive at the LHS, I tell em to take it out and let me see it run. Never had a problem.

Now, where you gonna go when your $78 locomotive has trouble? Call the guy back on e-bay and see if he'll fix it for you, or take it back to the horrible man at the store so he can fix it for you for next to nothing? So what DO you buy from this horrible ogre when you go into his shop? You aren't one of those guys who buys paint and gets your locomotives and rolling stock cheaper somewhere else are you? Oh wait, you already told us you do that.

You sure whine a lot for being a Texan.


dirt

I agree with you Dirt - and I izz from Karlifornia - how'd ya like that!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kchronister

QUOTE: Originally posted by older than dirt

Who really cares if you buy anything from him or not? I'll bet he doesn't, with that pleasant attitute you have. Ever been in bidness? It ain't easy. It might be inflation more than greed than you think.

...{most of rant deleted for brevity}...

So what DO you buy from this horrible ogre when you go into his shop?

...{more worthless drivel deleted}

dirt

Oh. My. God. Do you even realize how ridiculous you are? I laughed myself sick at you after reading your post... I can't even know where to begin... Oh wait, I do know, I left it there above this in your quote just to remind me:

Bidness? Bidness??? You actually typed "bidness" on purpose? And your handle is 'older than dirt'... So what are you the world's oldest gangsta pimp wannabe? Grand Pappy O.G? Yeah, I'm taking you seriously.

And how terribly amusing... You used the word "ogre"... Aren't ogres sort of like cousins to... trolls?

In any case, wow. In only 5 days and 6 posts, you have definitely figured out that insults, condescension, and snottiness are the BEST way to get started on the right foot around here. It's a SURE WAY to make people pay a LOT of attention to your posts!

A lot of folks are going to tell me "DNFTT," and I'll heed their advice from now on. But on the off chance you're really just someone who just don't get it... BZZZZZT. The buzzer just went off and the giant red "not the way to go, dude" sign lit up... Sit the next turn out then try again. We like to see new folks come join the party, as long as they don't decide pi&&ing on the floor is the best way to introduce themselves...

But regardless, thanks for the laugh. I'm still getting a kick out of "bidness."

I hear what you are saying Kchronister, but the quantity of posts a person has is irrelevant. Dirt had an opinion and he expressed it. At least the dude has some cahonnies (sp?) [;)]

[selector]

200 miles just for a whim...,wow. I'm sure that has nothing to do with being in Texas. But I sure as aitch eeee double hockeysticks wouldn't drive around the corner to do bidnessness with no snarly bidnessman poser, and that was our thread initiator's point.

Y'all have a nice day.

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kchronister

QUOTE: Originally posted by older than dirt
Who really cares if you buy anything from him or not? I'll bet he doesn't, with that pleasant attitute you have. Ever been in bidness? It ain't easy. It might be inflation more than greed than you think.

Bidness? Bidness??? You actually typed "bidness" on purpose?

And I suppose you're so perfect that you've never made any typing errors. [:(!]

On the standard English-language keyboard, the letters S and D are adjacent to each other. Because of that, it is very easy to accidentally hit the wrong key. Even the best proof-readers among us can miss correcting a mistake now and then. We're only human, after all. Well... most of us are, anyways. [alien]

I also find it quite inappropriate for someone to laugh at another person's mistakes. Is pointing out another person's short-comings the only way you can feel good about yourself ? [V] I wonder how you would feel when people laugh at you for making a mistake.


I'm done now. Could someone be so kind as to help me down off this [soapbox] ? [swg]

[jecorbett]

I am lucky in that my primary LHS is very customer friendly and has great selection which is why they have been in business about 30 years. They can't compete with online retailers on price so I buy a lot of my big ticket items online although sometimes they have a sale price that I take advantage of. Some items, like rolling stock, I like to see exactly what I am getting I buy most of my freight cars there. The bottom line is I am going to shop where I get the most value for my money but service and convenience have to be taken into that equation.

[Anonymous]

Ya see, in the oilfield and in Texas we do bidness. Kind of a colloquialism. You might have to look word that up. Ogre is another word you might have to look up. Troll, I'm not, I just changed name, for the fun of it (remember fun). I've actually been around here since January of 2004. It's kind of like changing into (insert name of old, out of shape super hero wanna be here), I'm still old mild mannered Clark Kent, but I can hide behind the cape if the mood strikes me, which is, in effect what happened. Speaking of you, why isn't there anything in your profile? I kinda learned from an old pro, Ed Blysard that you can find out a lot about what a person thinks about himself and is willing to let others know who they really are if they're willing to put some information about themselves in their profile. Trolls don't take the time to do that. If you would have taken the time to read mine, you would know that I KNOW I'm full of crap, and just showed that side of myself . And by the way, a lot, if not all, of what I said to that guy was true. This hobby is supposed to be fun, and a lot of guys have forgotten that. This subject comes up all the time, in the same or similar form. I just wanted to stir the pot a little bit. "Scuse me, the nurse is coming with the meds now.

mike, the Old grandpa pimp daddy wanna be.

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer

Okay bwfex. The first time I see you expressing your anger or disappointment on this forum if or when someone wrongs you, I'll be sure and remind you of your "wise words"...

TL

The guy "wronged" you? How? Because he didn't make the deal youwanted?
And you drove fifty miles so how dare him not give you the deal you wanted? Being disappointed that you didn't get the deal you wanted is one thing, but claiming you were "wronged" seems a little bit out there. You'd have been wronged if he agreed to the deal then reneged.

I'm not trying to take you to task or anything, but while I have seen bad shops and worse owners, in this case I can't help wondering what the other side of the story might sound like....

[Anonymous]

Driving 200 miles for no reason is a waste of gas. No wonder we are having high prices and hurricanes.

[Anonymous]

There is a place in Manchester, Connecticut called The Time Machine Hobby shop. It looks cool and even has a club layout in the back. But their prices!! Wow they are always way over retail. They are always more than any other hobby shop. They must not care that there is competition out there. Its like trying to buy a new car and the serach to get the best price from dealer to dealer, BUT the dealers are always much closer to each other.

[Anonymous]

While we're on the topic... Anyone shop at "The Station" in New Cumberland (i.e. Harrisburg area), PA? Several have told me it's the only "decent" hobby shop in the vicinity, but before I spend an hour driving each way, I wonder if there are any opinions here...???

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kchronister

While we're on the topic... Anyone shop at "The Station" in New Cumberland (i.e. Harrisburg area), PA? Several have told me it's the only "decent" hobby shop in the vicinity, but before I spend an hour driving each way, I wonder if there are any opinions here...???

I did a Google for that store, and although it didn't come up, I was redirected to the NMRA site which lists train stores by states. That store didn't come up on their list either, but it did have a lot of stores listed in PA.


m

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by phisig03

It is frustrating. About 5 years ago I started somewhat dabbling in the hobby and I went to "Riders" which is the hobby shop around here of which they have numerous locations. I went to the one in Ypsilanti (it is pronounced IPS-A-LAN-TEE) which was near my school at Eastern Michigan University and their whole one side of their store was train stuff. Of course being in college, and a "frat boy," not to mention a new apartment every fall, I put MRR on the backburner. When I wanted to get some more stuff for it about a year later, they swapped it out and put the trains on the other side of the store and greatly reduced the size.

When moving into my house in Dearborn Heights, I visted the Riders in Canton and they had a good selection. Then I also visited the Riders in Livonia which had a smaller selection (they appeared to specilize in telescopes at this one). Thinking Canton had the best selection, I went back to that one and to my horror found it gone. I stopped in the Taylor store and they have the worst selection yet!!

So I had the luxury of going around and seeing which is the best for me. I am sure most of my stuff will come from ebay or other sites, but it will still be nice to just go and peruse all the things on the shelf, something you can't do without costant clicking on he computer. So I guess I'll stick with the Livonia store, they have a decent selection, nice staff and reasonable prices.

There is also a hardware store around me that is also a hobby shop but they seem to be the most expensive. I was also discusted to discover another independent hobby shop by my house which had not one train or train related product. And you call yourself a HOBBY SHOP?????

Where in Livonia is there a Riders?? I know there's Merri-Seven at Merriman and 7 Mile (or was).. Rounds up to even $$ amounts from full list though. $9.95=$10 in there. Canton store is gone?? They slid downhill years ago.. One would think that being next to a chuck-e-cheeze (I hate that place) they could have done a brisk business if they'd done more to attract the kiddies (big and small). You're right, Taylor store sucks, for trains anymore that is.. Didn't use to be that way though. When they first opened, they had a train guy who knew how to draw the customers in.. A table full of mark down items.. He knew the trains too and was relatively friendly. Don't know why but he didn't last too long. I'm amazed that place is even still open. The best Riders in the area Used to be the one on John R south of 14mile.. I don't even know if it's still there though, haven't been out there in about 7 years.

On Our side of town, the best place (again) Use to be Joes Hobby on Grand River at Drake in Farmington Hills. May still be, I just haven't been out there in a number of years. They charge full price on newer items but are well stocked, will get you anything you want (hobby related), even if they have to hunt the internet and tell you where to mail order it.. The hardware store you refer to, I think, is Nankin Hardware on Ford Road.. Again, Once was a great place to go, especially around Christmas.. Couldn't get near the place. Last time I was in there, they pretty much sucked.. That may have changed though, depending on who is running the hobby department.. It comes and goes.

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chateauricher

QUOTE: Originally posted by kchronister

QUOTE: Originally posted by older than dirt
Who really cares if you buy anything from him or not? I'll bet he doesn't, with that pleasant attitute you have. Ever been in bidness? It ain't easy. It might be inflation more than greed than you think.

Bidness? Bidness??? You actually typed "bidness" on purpose?

And I suppose you're so perfect that you've never made any typing errors. [:(!]

On the standard English-language keyboard, the letters S and D are adjacent to each other. Because of that, it is very easy to accidentally hit the wrong key. Even the best proof-readers among us can miss correcting a mistake now and then. We're only human, after all. Well... most of us are, anyways. [alien]

I also find it quite inappropriate for someone to laugh at another person's mistakes. Is pointing out another person's short-comings the only way you can feel good about yourself ? [V] I wonder how you would feel when people laugh at you for making a mistake.


I'm done now. Could someone be so kind as to help me down off this [soapbox] ? [swg]

Here... I'll knock you off the [soapbox] .. I don't think that was a simple S-D typing error.. Even if it was, BUSINESS... Around here, Bidness is sometimes slang for business.. And yes, I sumtimz make spellin erors to.

[phisig03]

Jeff, Yes there is one across from the Merri-bowl on Merriman and 5 mile. Like I said, make do with what you got. That is the best one in the area. As for the Taylor store, I was SHOCKED how little their train section was. Starting out I have been getting pieces here or there and the reason for going to the Canton store on Sunday was for a grass mat to put on my plywood. That’s when I discovered they were gone. Apparently it’s recent as I ran into other people who asked me if I knew they were gone. Then I went to the Taylor one and they didn't even have a grass mat!!!

You are correct, Nankin Hardware. My brother-in-law has told me for years about the train layout they have there. And I just recently went there one Sunday right before they closed so the trains weren’t on. But then I went there during the early afternoon on a Sunday and no trains running. In fact it looked like their trains did not move since I was there about 2 weeks earlier. Not sure why you would have such a handsome layout there if you don’t use it. Just dismantle it and sell the pieces for their insane prices. They had a train set that I looked at there was $179. The same one at Riders was marked $129!!!!!!!!!!! $50 mark-up?????

I’ll have to try the hobby shop you suggested. Thanks!

[rolleiman]

[(-D].. Last time I was in there, 2 - 3x5 or so peg boards.. One for HO, one for N and I think they had a shelf for the lionel type stuff (taylor Riders) but even it was empty... Magazine rack was empty and no word of when it would be restocked.. Has it shrunk further?? When they first opened, the store was half the size and packed with stock. Then they expanded and don't appear to have ever restocked it. At the time the focus of the place appeared to be going towards gamers, Not the video type but the role playing games.. I think even that has dwindled. And people wonder why hobby shops die off. Oh well..

Yes, I think that layout at Nankin has been static for about 5 or 6 years. One I forgot to mention, if you Really want to take a drive, P&D Hobby.. It's on Grosebeck (sp?) at around 16 mile.. Probably an hour, even in fast traffic from Dearborn Hts.

[grayfox1119]

It never ceases to amaze me how little some people really know about business. I can understand our younger modelers, under age 21 or so, not understanding, and maybe even folks under age 35 who have lived a "sheltered financial life", but for the rest of us, here is what you need to remember:
1. Companies are in business to MAKE MONEY, if not, they go under.
2. The stock they purchase is at one price, and when the restock, the price may well be higher from the mfgr. So, they must raise their prices.
3. Did you notice that your real estate taxes, heating/cooling costs, and electrical costs have gone through the roof? Is the company supposed to "eat" that increase? If they do, it comes out of something called "profits". If the "profits" go into the red ink, what do think happens to the business? They go under!!!

Now , the second part of this discussion: the store owner and his attitude. If any business owner who deals with the public, wants his business to stay profitable, he MUST treat all the buying public with RESPECT..END OF STORY, no arguing this point.
If he chooses to rip off the public, how long do you think he will survive in business? He WON'T !!!! So it is in his best interest to satisfy his customers.

The final part: The glorious internet. We cannot touch it, we have to hoipe it arrives in one piece, we have to pay shipping, and sales taxes in some cases also. We sometimes go through pain and anger if we have to return the item.

I use my LHS's as much as possible. I like to see and touch the items that I buy, I like to converse with some of the great guys who run these stores, or their helpers. I want to take it home NOW if I choose to buy.

When we make our choices in life, we always have to give up something to hopefully gain something...just think about that for a while guys.

[bwftex]

QUOTE: Originally posted by older than dirt

Ya see, in the oilfield and in Texas we do bidness. Kind of a colloquialism.

mike, the Old grandpa pimp daddy wanna be.

Hey dirt,
What part of the state are you working in? We've been out in Concho County since last May in an area a little west of Eden. Bruce

[ozzy01]

Grayfox , I think you hit the nail on the head with your comments. Seems that more than a few of you have had bad experiences with the lhs. I must be in the minority. I guess I've been lucky. I do go to my lhs. We had one where the owner was friendly and knowledgeable ,guess he quit or moved. (We have hobbytown and one which opens at noon ,usually on my way home by then ,btw , lhs are 60 miles away).The magazine rack was basically empty , especially kalmbach's mags (said needed to sell 25 copies at least). RMC,Railfan&Railroad ,Railmodel Journal and Model Railroading weren't carried. Mainline Modeler and N Scale Magazine were. His selection of rolling stock ,engines,etc. at times was good. A lot of stuff sat on the shelves for years and he raised the price to reflect the recent selling price for the item. I stopped going in because I got tired of seeing the same old stuff. He would order for you but it could be a week or a month before he would order. He had to get a big enough order to send to his distributor. Don't know why?

[ozzy01]

Does anybody know of a good hobby shop in the Lexington,Ky. area besides hobbytown and berkshire(opens at noon).

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bwftex

QUOTE: Originally posted by older than dirt

Ya see, in the oilfield and in Texas we do bidness. Kind of a colloquialism.

mike, the Old grandpa pimp daddy wanna be.

Hey dirt,
What part of the state are you working in? We've been out in Concho County since last May in an area a little west of Eden. Bruce

Bruce,
I don't do that any more. Used to work in downhole tool manufacturing then sold production chemicals out of Yorktown. Most of my bidness was down south of Corpus on down to the valley. I live in Schulenburg now.


mike

[RoyalOaker]

phisig03

I have never gone to check out Joe's but they are still in the yellow pages and maybe I'll have to head on over there.

The Riders/Ryders on John R between 13 and 14 (in the Target strip mall) is pretty good. They really don't offer any kits to speak of. Mostly RTR stuff. But they have an OK amount of stock. Mostly MSRP. Very few items discounted. They also have an OK supply of woodland scenic stuff.

There is a store up north called Great Lakes Hobby. Its on Van*** north of M59. I think the town is Shelby up there. This is a big store with many hobby items. The is an isle full of N, and two or three isles of O and HO stuff. They also have lots of woodland senic stuff and styreen pieces. Not bad if you can hande the drive. Again, mostly MSRP. They did have a sale before Christmas of Buy one get one half off of Athearn engines.

Merri Seven is OK, Sometimes you can find old stuff in the boxes below the shelves, but it is really crowed in there and it is hard to get service unless you are an old friend of the owner.

I like the various train shows this time of year. I am looking forward to the Gratiot Valley show on 03/05. There is one in Saline this weekend, but I can't make it.

[Anonymous]

I have to agree. Support your LHS. Model railroading isn't some fad thing like Ipods and such of today that's replaced by something bright and shinny tomorrow. This hobby has been around for many many years and is charished these days by few. More and more localy owned hobby shops are going out of business and I don't think the majority are because of owners being jackasses and purposely ripping people off.

One good reason is simply people of today are into electronics, computers, too much tv, instant gratification things. Too many people today think a hobby is sipping a beer while watching football.

The other good reason is because of the internet. As great as it may be, being able to get things dirt cheap via websites like E-Bay, then doing nothing more than sitting on your lazy assses waiting for it to be brought to you via UPS man, is killing buisiness for any locally owned business much less LHS's.

I consider myself lucky cause my town has two LHS's, one strickly sells model railroading merchandise galore. Is their stuff priced a few bucks higher than what I might find on the internet??? Sure it probably is, but how the heck do you expect them to make a profit and continue to run their busiess and earn their own paychecks and pay their bills for running the store??? Your LHS is your means of getting what you want NOW. It costs more because of that convience. No different than you going to Detroit MI, standing at the end of the assembly line and buying the next car that rolls off compaired to going to your LCD (local car dealorship) and paying a little more because it had to be shipped and handled!

I don't trust buying anything I can't see, touch, examin in person before I buy. Would you buy your next 25,000 car soley from a pic and a paragraph describing it off the internet?? Would you take that risk without actually looking that car over and driving it just because it's cheaper than what the dealership has sitting on his lot?? The price between that and a 125 dollar model engine is a extreme comparision but the concept and idea behind it is still the same.

You spend 100 bucks for an engine off E-Bay from someone, you spend that much of your hard earned money, do you really trust the person your buying it from you don't know, that it really does work and it's not broke, that their going to package it up good enough so it don't get broke on it's way to you? Do you really want to intrust your purchase to the many delivery men/women's hands and trucks it gets thrown around on, on it's way to you??

For me I may spend an extra 25 bucks for an engine but at least I know exactly what I'm buying when I take it up to the counter and pay for it cause I personaly checked it out BEFORE I bought it. Not bought it then seen if it was broke when I finally got it If it's an 'as is' item, your screwed if it gets broke by the time you get it.

If I buy an engine from my LHS, I instantly have it in my possition, if I get it home and it don't work, I can instantly take it back to my LHS and have them fix it right then and there or get another one.

LHS's are going out of business cause too many people these days don't care about doing hobbies and because for everyone person who buys off the internet, that's one less person supporting their LHS to help them stay in business.

How many of you got started in this hobby because you fathers or grandfathers did this, or you walked into a hobby shop when you was a kid and saw all the cool stuff?? You didn't start this hobby based on pictures off of E-Bay and who sold things the cheapest.

I don't consider Hobby Lobby, Hobby Town USA true hobby shops, it's your ma and pop hobby shops that have always been the backbone of this hobby. Once there all gone, so will this hobby be as generations pass.

Spend the extra few bucks and support your LHS !!

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer

Okay bwfex. The first time I see you expressing your anger or disappointment on this forum if or when someone wrongs you, I'll be sure and remind you of your "wise words"...

TL

The guy "wronged" you? How? Because he didn't make the deal youwanted?
And you drove fifty miles so how dare him not give you the deal you wanted? Being disappointed that you didn't get the deal you wanted is one thing, but claiming you were "wronged" seems a little bit out there. You'd have been wronged if he agreed to the deal then reneged.

I'm not trying to take you to task or anything, but while I have seen bad shops and worse owners, in this case I can't help wondering what the other side of the story might sound like....

Brunton, I don't know why you have it in for me, but it seems like every time I start a thread you step in and kick me in the face... If some guy were to rob me one night in a parking lot, you would say that I was wrong for being out at night and in the parking lot in the first place.

TL

[Anonymous]

Well I don't want to sound like I'm chimming in with those against you Tracklayer, correctly me if I'm wrong on the following points.

1. Your upset because you drove all that way all to find out the engine you wanted was now 25 bucks more than what you thought it would be correct??
2. You felt that because it was, the owner had some obligation to come down in price to what you origionally thought you'd pay, correct??
3. You further got upset cause you went to buy a piece of rolling stock and the coupler was broke and the owner wouldn't bargin with you because so correct??
4. You got upset because you felt the owner was being rude to you correct??

Those four things seemed to be the case when I read your first reply.

I give you the benefit of the doubt that a 25% merchandise increase storewide all at once is a bit high for a LHS. I'm sure he has merchandise from all kinds of manufacturers and not every one of them increased their prices that made him increase his prices for EVERYTHING in the store. I give you the benefit of the doubt if he was blatenly being rude to you as his customer.

If he raised his prices to be greedy then shame on him, but do you know that for a fact?? If he raised his prices cause he really had too, because he held off on doing so as long as he could until he had no other option because of his expenses in running his store, paying employees, utilitiy bills, etc... it's still sorta shame on him that he did it all at once instead of gradual increases over time as his expenses and overhead increased....but then again, he has a business to run but won't be for long if he's not making profits.

Nothing against you, if I was I shrink, I'd say the reason your so upset is because you drove all that way expecting to pay 100 and found out you'd have to pay more for it than you thought you would, and all the circumstances that happened after that just added fuel to your fire. He didn't bargin with you on the rolling stock for a lower price because it was broke, but you said he did offer to fix it for you. If you hadn't of previously seen that engine in his shop for 100.00, you would of went in that day, saw it for 125, wouldn't have known any better and probably would have gladly bought the engine anyway. Thus him offering to fix the coupler on the rolling stock instead of giving you a discount wouldn't have been no big deal to you either.

I guess the biggest question to weather people are on your side or not on this issue is, did he in fact increase his prices 25% to solely rip people off and be greedy, or is that the reason you think he did it for because you were mad the engine cost more than what first seen it for???

Has this man always been this rude to you and other customers every time you've been in his store or just this instance?? Maybe he was just upset himself that day cause him and his woman had a fight earlier that morning or something.

I'm not taking sides, just trying to understand what's fact and what's emotion that's making you despise this man and his store. Of course non of our opinions really matter cause none of us was there, only you was so how you feel now based on that is really all that matters to you.

Thanks for coming out on these forums and venting to all of us about it though. We're here for ya !!

[phisig03]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RoyalOaker

phisig03
I have never gone to check out Joe's but they are still in the yellow pages and maybe I'll have to head on over there.

The Riders/Ryders on John R between 13 and 14 (in the Target strip mall) is pretty good. They really don't offer any kits to speak of. Mostly RTR stuff. But they have an OK amount of stock. Mostly MSRP. Very few items discounted. They also have an OK supply of woodland scenic stuff.

There is a store up north called Great Lakes Hobby. Its on Van*** north of M59. I think the town is Shelby up there. This is a big store with many hobby items. The is an isle full of N, and two or three isles of O and HO stuff. They also have lots of woodland senic stuff and styreen pieces. Not bad if you can hande the drive. Again, mostly MSRP. They did have a sale before Christmas of Buy one get one half off of Athearn engines.

Merri Seven is OK, Sometimes you can find old stuff in the boxes below the shelves, but it is really crowed in there and it is hard to get service unless you are an old friend of the owner.

I like the various train shows this time of year. I am looking forward to the Gratiot Valley show on 03/05. There is one in Saline this weekend, but I can't make it.

Thanks! In fact my wife was telling me about that Riders in Royal Oak. She was raised there (in Royal Oak, not Riders!!). We will be going out that way visiting this weekend, so we defintely will be stopping.

I like going to shows too, but my question is, is it the same sellers that do all the shows in the area? I went to the one a couple weeks ago at the church at West Chicago and Inkster roads in Redford (name escapes me), and they seemed to have a lack of HO scale items.

[brothaslide]

As a business owner, I don't bad mouth any other business, even if they have been "bad" to me. You have to remember, most hobby shops are "mom and pop" businesses and any thing reflecting poorly on them in print could effect their livelyhood. They may be digging their own grave by how they price their products and treat customers, but we don't have to drive the nail in the coffin here.

Take care,

Sean

[Anonymous]

OK, TL, I have to admit, I was a bit harsh.

But I have to know, what hobby shop are you talking about? Where do you live? I live right between Houston and San Antonio and know most of the shops in those towns and Austin too. I'm just curious what shop it is we're talking about. Also, if you don't mind driving further than you do for a better deal or a better shop, let us know. We can maybe turn you on to someone you would like better. Sunday I drove clear to Houston to Papa Ben's Train Place. But I also took the wife to IKEA (now, THERE'S a zoo for you!), and I convinced her that when we were having supper it was REALLY for Valentine's Day. So I killed three birds with one stone. Try to have some fun.

One other thing. It's YOUR money. Spend it the way you want to. Don't think this guy is the only guy around who wants it. If what you say about him is true (and I'm sorry, I have my doubts), go somewhere else. You don't owe him anything.


mike, the dirt ogre, pimp wanna be, just doin his bidness.

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer

Okay bwfex. The first time I see you expressing your anger or disappointment on this forum if or when someone wrongs you, I'll be sure and remind you of your "wise words"...

TL

The guy "wronged" you? How? Because he didn't make the deal youwanted?
And you drove fifty miles so how dare him not give you the deal you wanted? Being disappointed that you didn't get the deal you wanted is one thing, but claiming you were "wronged" seems a little bit out there. You'd have been wronged if he agreed to the deal then reneged.

I'm not trying to take you to task or anything, but while I have seen bad shops and worse owners, in this case I can't help wondering what the other side of the story might sound like....

Brunton, I don't know why you have it in for me, but it seems like every time I start a thread you step in and kick me in the face... If some guy were to rob me one night in a parking lot, you would say that I was wrong for being out at night and in the parking lot in the first place.

TL

Where does this come from? How did I kick you in the face? I asked you how you were wronged by the guy. If you feel that I kicked you in the face by asking you to explain that, perhaps you're a little oversensitive, or really can't explain why you were wronged, because deep down you know you weren't. Speculative, yes, but since you refuse to answer the question that's all that's left.

I'm curious - in what other thread(s) do you think I've I kicked you in the face?

Besides, stepping in every time you post a new thread would be a full-time job![:D]
(just kidding!!)

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by older than dirt

OK, TL, I have to admit, I was a bit harsh.

But I have to know, what hobby shop are you talking about? Where do you live? I live right between Houston and San Antonio and know most of the shops in those towns and Austin too. I'm just curious what shop it is we're talking about. Also, if you don't mind driving further than you do for a better deal or a better shop, let us know. We can maybe turn you on to someone you would like better. Sunday I drove clear to Houston to Papa Ben's Train Place. But I also took the wife to IKEA (now, THERE'S a zoo for you!), and I convinced her that when we were having supper it was REALLY for Valentine's Day. So I killed three birds with one stone. Try to have some fun.

One other thing. It's YOUR money. Spend it the way you want to. Don't think this guy is the only guy around who wants it. If what you say about him is true (and I'm sorry, I have my doubts), go somewhere else. You don't owe him anything.


mike, the dirt ogre, pimp wanna be, just doin his bidness.

Apology accepted older than dirt.

The name of the train shop I've been talking about is the Houston Roundhouse, and the name of the owner is Wayne. Wayne always seems like a nice guy until it involves money, then he can get real rude and nasty...

I live out in Waller - about 50 miles from the Round House.

I'm well aware of Papa Ben's. You must be rich!... Other than that, there's Larry's Hobbies out on I-45 and Spring Crossing about two miles down the road from Larry's. There's also a couple of other places around town but I don't recall the names.

Like I said, I'm done with the overpriced train shops, and from now on am only doing business on-line.

Tracklayer

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TA462

The other side of the story is that the manufacturing process, the packaging costs, the delivery costs, the labour costs and of course natural gas and electricity for his store have also raised his operating costs by 25%. SHAME ON HIM for trying to support himself. You get NO SYMPATHY from me Tracklayer.

Thank you TA462. Maybe I'll get the chance to return the favor some day...

TL

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer

Okay bwfex. The first time I see you expressing your anger or disappointment on this forum if or when someone wrongs you, I'll be sure and remind you of your "wise words"...

TL

The guy "wronged" you? How? Because he didn't make the deal youwanted?
And you drove fifty miles so how dare him not give you the deal you wanted? Being disappointed that you didn't get the deal you wanted is one thing, but claiming you were "wronged" seems a little bit out there. You'd have been wronged if he agreed to the deal then reneged.

I'm not trying to take you to task or anything, but while I have seen bad shops and worse owners, in this case I can't help wondering what the other side of the story might sound like....

Brunton, I don't know why you have it in for me, but it seems like every time I start a thread you step in and kick me in the face... If some guy were to rob me one night in a parking lot, you would say that I was wrong for being out at night and in the parking lot in the first place.

TL

Where does this come from? How did I kick you in the face? I asked you how you were wronged by the guy. If you feel that I kicked you in the face by asking you to explain that, perhaps you're a little oversensitive, or really can't explain why you were wronged, because deep down you know you weren't. Speculative, yes, but since you refuse to answer the question that's all that's left.

I'm curious - in what other thread(s) do you think I've I kicked you in the face?

Besides, stepping in every time you post a new thread would be a full-time job![:D]
(just kidding!!)

Okay Brunton, maybe I misunderstood and took wrong what you were saying/asking.

The reason I was so mad was because I'd told the guy I'd be back in a couple of weeks to get the engine and he took it out of the case and put it under the cabinet for me. At that time it was priced at $99.95. Two weeks later I come back to get it and he's marked it up to $124.95... Now you see what I'm saying. Wouldn't you be a little ticked off too ?.

Aside of all this. What type loco is that in the photo you're showing in your replies ?.

TL

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer

QUOTE: Originally posted by older than dirt

OK, TL, I have to admit, I was a bit harsh.

But I have to know, what hobby shop are you talking about? Where do you live? I live right between Houston and San Antonio and know most of the shops in those towns and Austin too. I'm just curious what shop it is we're talking about. Also, if you don't mind driving further than you do for a better deal or a better shop, let us know. We can maybe turn you on to someone you would like better. Sunday I drove clear to Houston to Papa Ben's Train Place. But I also took the wife to IKEA (now, THERE'S a zoo for you!), and I convinced her that when we were having supper it was REALLY for Valentine's Day. So I killed three birds with one stone. Try to have some fun.

One other thing. It's YOUR money. Spend it the way you want to. Don't think this guy is the only guy around who wants it. If what you say about him is true (and I'm sorry, I have my doubts), go somewhere else. You don't owe him anything.


mike, the dirt ogre, pimp wanna be, just doin his bidness.

Apology accepted older than dirt.

The name of the train shop I've been talking about is the Houston Roundhouse, and the name of the owner is Wayne. Wayne always seems like a nice guy until it involves money, then he can get real rude and nasty...

I live out in Waller - about 50 miles from the Round House.

I'm well aware of Papa Ben's. You must be rich!... Other than that, there's Larry's Hobbies out on I-45 and Spring Crossing about two miles down the road from Larry's. There's also a couple of other places around town but I don't recall the names.

Like I said, I'm done with the overpriced train shops, and from now on am only doing business on-line.

Tracklayer

No, I'm not rich, that's for sure, but Ben's been good to me. I've bought enough stuff there (and really not THAT much stuff) that he gives me a discount. I can count on good service, he's got what I want, and as for hobby shop pricing, I don't think he's any worse than anyone else.

Just don't burn any bridges. You might need someone to fix one of those too good to be true deals some day. But...the first shop I ever went to in Houston was the Roundhouse. All I'll say to the rest of you guys is TL does have a point. Enough said? But I voted with my $. Roundhouse hasn't gotten any for years.


m

[georgev]

Well, I may be starting to support one of my local train shops a bit more. I live in Southeast Michigan, like royaloaker and few others. I called Great Lakes Train and Hobby in Utica, MI about ordering a couple of Peco turnouts. They told me I can place an order on the Walthers site and have the delivery made to their store. This store discounts 10-20% based on what I see in other shops around town (Riders and Joe's being the two other major stores in the area). Great Lakes discounts 10% on special orders. For smaller purchases, maybe $50 or less, this can be close to internet prices. There is sales tax and gas, but there is no shipping charge.

Convenience is good too - place the order online and then a week or so later you get a phone call that the order is in. Seems like a good system to me, especially if combined with a discount.

George V.

[ICRR1964]

Come one guys, look at who posted the thread. He's not happy unless hes got his name up in lights. If he's dumb enough to drive that far for a good deal and then drive back. Well? It was an expensive day that day then. Not to notice his thread he started is almost identical to a post someone left about a week ago, but the words have been changed around. [zzz] ZZZZZZZZZZZ!

[Soo Line fan]

P & D Hobby Shop in the Frazier (Detroit Michigan) area is the best that I know of. Pat, the owner and Russ, the manager are both great guys. They will special order anything and stock lots of detail parts and kits for the serious hobbyist. A huge selection of O gauge, Lionel as well as HO. Many Athearn BB kits are being stocked.

http://www.pdhobbyshop.com/home.php

Jim

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

Come one guys, look at who posted the thread. He's not happy unless hes got his name up in lights. If he's dumb enough to drive that far for a good deal and then drive back. Well? It was an expensive day that day then. Not to notice his thread he started is almost identical to a post someone left about a week ago, but the words have been changed around. [zzz] ZZZZZZZZZZZ!

Not so fast...if I had agreed to purchase a loco and the proprietor had agree to set it aside, and visibly put it under the counter, the deal was for $99.95 and it was sealed. If I drove all that way to find that he had jacked up the price 25% in anticipation of my wanting it, that is tantamount to breach of contract, and I could probably win in small claims court. I'm not a lawyer, so I could be wrong, especially with respect to that state's law. In my books, that way of doing business is "smarmy."

[Don Gibson]

EVERYONE raises prices. Read a 10 year old MODER RAILROADER.

It starts with Uncle Sam devaluing the dollar. Next it's you asking for more money - for the same amount of work. Oh, that wasn't you?

People working in Hobby shops get 15% - 25% off on their purchases.

YOU don't have to pay his prices - you can walk out, or go to E Bay.
HE doesn't have to lower his prices, he can sell it to someone else.

The KEY IS who has what you want ? YOU, HE or EBay? If you don't look around
the answer will soon become 'NOBODY'.

There are dealers that hold onto stock until no one else has, then they can get premium prices.

[ICRR1964]

Oh my, another Victim! Please!!! Lets get off the poor poor pittiful me! Bruton, you been accused of kicking Tracklayer in the face? Step aside, let me have a kick for a change! Anybody got any cheese so Tracklayer has something to go with his wine????

[Anonymous]

"There are dealers that hold onto stock until no one else has, then they can get premium prices."

Any dealer that does this will be bankrupt soon. This is not fine art we are talking about![8]

[MisterBeasley]

QUOTE:
Support your local train shop ?. Not me. Not anymore...

Support that local train shop? Probably not. Support my local train shop? Absolutely! He's been giving me a discount since my first purchase, and he knows the hobby, as can be seen by his small but nicely detailed in-store layout. Just walking into the shop takes away all the stress of the workday. Each customer in turn gets Gerry's full attention, so sometimes I have to wait a while. It's well worth it.

There are restaurants I'd never go back to. Same with hotels, airlines, cars and girlfriends. But a bad experience with one won't turn me off to all the others. Let Darwin take care of the unfit ones. Enjoy the good shops, and help them keep on going.

[loathar]

If we were ALL so smart that we could run a profitable train store, non of us would have time to post on this forum. I only complain about an LHS when I have bad servise from 1 location. I then try to warn fellow modelers from waisting money at that one location.
Other than that, I'd rather have a beer and work on my layout....[8D][8D][8D]

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

Come one guys, look at who posted the thread. He's not happy unless hes got his name up in lights. If he's dumb enough to drive that far for a good deal and then drive back. Well? It was an expensive day that day then. Not to notice his thread he started is almost identical to a post someone left about a week ago, but the words have been changed around. [zzz] ZZZZZZZZZZZ!

Not so fast...if I had agreed to purchase a loco and the proprietor had agree to set it aside, and visibly put it under the counter, the deal was for $99.95 and it was sealed. If I drove all that way to find that he had jacked up the price 25% in anticipation of my wanting it, that is tantamount to breach of contract, and I could probably win in small claims court. I'm not a lawyer, so I could be wrong, especially with respect to that state's law. In my books, that way of doing business is "smarmy."

Crandell,
Another way to look at this is that Tracklayer waited 'til page five to mention
that the loco was set aside for him... maybe it's just me, but it sounds a little
like embellishing the story to favor his complaint(whining).

I have never understood why everyone who has a problem with eBay, a LHS or
an online dealer has to flood the forum with their complaints. These issues
would be better handled if they would just contact the person that they have
the issues with. I am fairly certain that if this evil shop owner could give
his side of the story, we would probably hear a completely different version.

Regardless, the shop owner has every right to price his merchandise as
he sees fit... it's up to us to decide to buy or not buy. And slinging mud without
giving the other party an opportunity to defend themselves is a cowardly way
to handle things. Tracklayer, if you feel so strongly that you were done wrong,
confront the owner... stand up to him. We can do nothing about this.

Also, I fully support my LHS.... both of them. And I appreciate them as much as
they appreciate my bidness. I am thankful to have a LHS where I can
purchase items or just shoot the bull for hours.

I guess some folks wake up looking for things to complain about... I deal with
folks like this all of the time. Life's way too short for that. Dave

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rolleiman

QUOTE: Originally posted by chateauricher
I'm done now. Could someone be so kind as to help me down off this [soapbox] ? [swg]

Here... I'll knock you off the [soapbox]

My dear Sir, is it really necessary to resort to violence ? [V] I ask for help and you want to "knock" me down ?!?! [:O]

There is no need to "knock" me off the soapbox unless you want to pay for my third hip replacement in less than 10 years. I've already had both hips done, and I'd rather not have to re-do one so soon, certainly not at age 36. So, I appreciate it when people kindly help me down.

[rolleiman]

[}:)][}:)] You did manage to climb up there so it isn't much of a stretch to think you could climb down on your own [;)].. I Am sorry that you didn't appreciate my sometimes blunt and dark sense of humor.. Not the first time it's happened in about 13 years of online posting.. Probably won't be the last. I meant no offense or harm to you.

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rolleiman
I Am sorry that you didn't appreciate my sometimes blunt and dark sense of humor.

If you intend something as a joke, then you would be wise to include a [;)] or a [swg] or a [:o)] to indicate that it is meant as a joke. Without smilies, it is impossible to determine "tone of voice" and misunderstandings abound.

QUOTE: You did manage to climb up there so it isn't much of a stretch to think you could climb down on your own [;)].

BTW, how do you know I didn't have help getting up on that soapbox in the first place ? [;)]

[ouengr]

As I see it there are two issues that were originally brought up.

1. An unexpected and apparently unjustified price increase.
2. Poor customer service at a local hobby shop.

Can we please focus on these two issues and stop the back stabbing and name calling? I for one am sick of it.

One the two issues listed above.

I firmly believe that the free market will provide a competitor to this shop that will provide better service at better prices if and only if we demand it. If we do not use our resources to voice our concerns, then the situation will not improve. I do pay more when I purchase items from local hobby shops and I have for several years. I normally will grant my LHS a margin of 8% over on line sales. This effort has kept my out of pocket expenses down.

The customer service issue is one that I have experienced many times in the past and there haw been far to many times that I walked out of a hobby shop or dealer display due to poor customer service. Any LHS that does not value their customers is one that will soon close it's doors forever. We all have a bad day but there is no excuse for terrible customer service.

Perhaps we would all be better off if we each had the market capitol to open our own respectivve shops and see which one(s) survive. I would like to have a well stocked store of around 2,000 ft2 with a sizable working layout. This store would operate with sizable on-line presence and a well trained staff of model railroaders. The internet store would allow the shop to expand it's customer base beyond the immediate market. Generally speaking I would like to have a market discount of approximately 20-25% depending on the product line.

The issues that have been presented in this thread and others should be a great metric of the way many modelers feel about our LHS. It seems to me that many of us are not happy and are looking at other options. Instead of hating and attacking the competition, we should look at the competition and see what alows their market share to expand.

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chateauricher

QUOTE: Originally posted by rolleiman
I Am sorry that you didn't appreciate my sometimes blunt and dark sense of humor.

If you intend something as a joke, then you would be wise to include a [;)] or a [swg] or a [:o)] to indicate that it is meant as a joke. Without smilies, it is impossible to determine "tone of voice" and misunderstandings abound.

QUOTE: You did manage to climb up there so it isn't much of a stretch to think you could climb down on your own [;)].

BTW, how do you know I didn't have help getting up on that soapbox in the first place ? [;)]

It happens even when I do include them but point taken.. [swg]

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

Come one guys, look at who posted the thread. He's not happy unless hes got his name up in lights. If he's dumb enough to drive that far for a good deal and then drive back. Well? It was an expensive day that day then. Not to notice his thread he started is almost identical to a post someone left about a week ago, but the words have been changed around. [zzz] ZZZZZZZZZZZ!

You just have it in for me don't you ICRR1964... I don't know what I did to cause you to dislike me so much but it must have been pretty bad. I say this because you hammer me every chance you get. Oh well. If that makes you happy then hammer away... ([B)])

TL

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

Come one guys, look at who posted the thread. He's not happy unless hes got his name up in lights. If he's dumb enough to drive that far for a good deal and then drive back. Well? It was an expensive day that day then. Not to notice his thread he started is almost identical to a post someone left about a week ago, but the words have been changed around. [zzz] ZZZZZZZZZZZ!

Not so fast...if I had agreed to purchase a loco and the proprietor had agree to set it aside, and visibly put it under the counter, the deal was for $99.95 and it was sealed. If I drove all that way to find that he had jacked up the price 25% in anticipation of my wanting it, that is tantamount to breach of contract, and I could probably win in small claims court. I'm not a lawyer, so I could be wrong, especially with respect to that state's law. In my books, that way of doing business is "smarmy."

Crandell,
Another way to look at this is that Tracklayer waited 'til page five to mention
that the loco was set aside for him... maybe it's just me, but it sounds a little
like embellishing the story to favor his complaint(whining).

I have never understood why everyone who has a problem with eBay, a LHS or
an online dealer has to flood the forum with their complaints. These issues
would be better handled if they would just contact the person that they have
the issues with. I am fairly certain that if this evil shop owner could give
his side of the story, we would probably hear a completely different version.

Regardless, the shop owner has every right to price his merchandise as
he sees fit... it's up to us to decide to buy or not buy. And slinging mud without
giving the other party an opportunity to defend themselves is a cowardly way
to handle things. Tracklayer, if you feel so strongly that you were done wrong,
confront the owner... stand up to him. We can do nothing about this.

Also, I fully support my LHS.... both of them. And I appreciate them as much as
they appreciate my bidness. I am thankful to have a LHS where I can
purchase items or just shoot the bull for hours.

I guess some folks wake up looking for things to complain about... I deal with
folks like this all of the time. Life's way too short for that. Dave

You're right dave9999, I did fail to mention "the whole story" until late in the game. I apologize for that. Try having a head injury and see how swift your thinking becomes.

TL

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

Come one guys, look at who posted the thread. He's not happy unless hes got his name up in lights. If he's dumb enough to drive that far for a good deal and then drive back. Well? It was an expensive day that day then. Not to notice his thread he started is almost identical to a post someone left about a week ago, but the words have been changed around. [zzz] ZZZZZZZZZZZ!

Not so fast...if I had agreed to purchase a loco and the proprietor had agree to set it aside, and visibly put it under the counter, the deal was for $99.95 and it was sealed. If I drove all that way to find that he had jacked up the price 25% in anticipation of my wanting it, that is tantamount to breach of contract, and I could probably win in small claims court. I'm not a lawyer, so I could be wrong, especially with respect to that state's law. In my books, that way of doing business is "smarmy."

Crandell,
Another way to look at this is that Tracklayer waited 'til page five to mention
that the loco was set aside for him... maybe it's just me, but it sounds a little
like embellishing the story to favor his complaint(whining).

I have never understood why everyone who has a problem with eBay, a LHS or
an online dealer has to flood the forum with their complaints. These issues
would be better handled if they would just contact the person that they have
the issues with. I am fairly certain that if this evil shop owner could give
his side of the story, we would probably hear a completely different version.

Regardless, the shop owner has every right to price his merchandise as
he sees fit... it's up to us to decide to buy or not buy. And slinging mud without
giving the other party an opportunity to defend themselves is a cowardly way
to handle things. Tracklayer, if you feel so strongly that you were done wrong,
confront the owner... stand up to him. We can do nothing about this.

Also, I fully support my LHS.... both of them. And I appreciate them as much as
they appreciate my bidness. I am thankful to have a LHS where I can
purchase items or just shoot the bull for hours.

I guess some folks wake up looking for things to complain about... I deal with
folks like this all of the time. Life's way too short for that. Dave

Understood, Dave, but until I have incontrovertible evidence that Tracklayer is fibbing, I feel I should take what he tells me at face value. Now, I am not so naive that I don't realize that most of us use hyperbole from time to time, but if we are to accept the facts as stated, then I stand by what I said. If a witness were to offer proof that the events did not take place, I might agree that his waiting to toss in the trump until much later might be taken as grandstanding, or an attempt to save face. God knows we have seen that tactic on this forum before.

-Crandell

[Anonymous]

I think having to increase prices $25 on a single item within a month is a bit steep (considering how cut-throat the pricing is on the web) however retail stores have MASSIVE OVERHEAD, guys. MY local shop has excellent customer service, good product selection, but basically MSRP on most things. Why do I buy from them (as well as the internet)? I do like shopping in person, and GETTING THE GOODS that instant--its very rewarding. But its also fun to chat and talk about trains with them.

About 7 hobby shops in Orange County alone have bit the dust in the past 10-15 years, and I lay the blame mainly on Customer Service--or lack of it. Cheap prices and the internet yes factor in---but nothing can compete with friendly faces and helpful staff. Hobby shops have been lacking that for years. Managing the hobby shops focussed on marginal profit of each sale---that is a mistake--should of made being friendly and helpful a bigger priority. Greet and get to know the interests of EVERYONE who comes into the store.

Does Starbucks really have better coffee than others? Especially when the coffee comes from the same place as the other guy down the street??? Its Happy faces, a greeting and politeness---they go along way , and if you are brick-and-mortar , you better be excellent at it.

Regards,

TP Metzger

[Anonymous]

ha ha ha ha, can't help but laugh, first of all, it must be that full moon has just passed, so just the right time for an argument is finished. So here is the nail for the coffin. Being overseas, product prices depend directly on the exchange rate! so on moment you have a KATO sd40 for $175(yes, that much! shipping and exchange rates!!!!), and 1month later you have a AC4400 (also KATO, same shop, and newer model) for $120!! so prices sometimes go down, yipppee, time for more of Sudent of the big blue Sky's weed, thanks mate!

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer

The reason I was so mad was because I'd told the guy I'd be back in a couple of weeks to get the engine and he took it out of the case and put it under the cabinet for me. At that time it was priced at $99.95. Two weeks later I come back to get it and he's marked it up to $124.95... Now you see what I'm saying. Wouldn't you be a little ticked off too ?.

Aside of all this. What type loco is that in the photo you're showing in your replies ?.

TL

Yes, I certainly would! Maybe you already said that - I apologize if I missed it. Under those circumstances I think you were certainly treated poorly, and I would have told Wayne he could go pound sand up....; well. you know the rest.

The loco is one of the earlier P2K 0-6-0s. I figure in another six months or so it'll have collected enough dust to be considered fully weathered![:D]

[ICRR1964]

For one thing Tracklayer, and for your information. This is the 2nd time I have piped up to you about one of your threads being allot of BS. So get of your high horse and quit crying about being a victim all the time. I will agree with most here about you putting up a thread and then keep adding things to it to make yourself look like a victim. Look at it this way, you waited to give anymore info until page 5, that was after you got kicked in the head several times. Now your crying about a head injury is causing you to say things out of text!

I guess you like being the victim all the time, and think everyone should have a pitty party for poor old Tracklayer all the time. You have accused several members about them kicking you in the head, then look for expect them to say their sorry. Not this time for me!

[:D] Step aside boys! I want another kick, maybe I can kick it over the fence this time! You dug this hole Tracklayer, so lay in it.

[bdmcnally]

First I would like to say that I have been hobby shop free now for over 6 months! I had been trying to quit for what seemed like years! What it boils down to is,”would you rather pay more later or save now?”

Brick and mortar stores pay the same for items as the online stores do; however your local stores have to pay for a lot of overhead, that cuts into their profit which explains why your local store raised its prices. This could also mean he may plan on getting out of the business soon. If he is complaining about cost of living, how is raising the prices helping? He’ll sell to fewer but for more, thus leaving him in the same boat. If he sold items at a lower price he could drive more customers in and make the same if not more just in volume.

There are 5 hobby stores in the Seattle area, all of which are about 45 minutes away. My options are either to drive through traffic, wasting both gas and time, to buy an item, or to just buy it online. Gas and time = money, so why not just use it to pay shipping and save the time for modeling? I can get the exact same items online.

As far as deals or sales go…the only time I ever see a sale or deal in one of the local stores is on items no one wants that have been out for a while. I can save more just by ordering it in advance.

I have never once been contacted by any of the owners or employees of any of these stores about new items coming out. I have been contacted quite a few times by 2 online retailers about items coming out 6 months from now. How can you beat that? I ordered 3 diesels w/sound and DCC and saved $51 each by ordering them in advance, That’s $153! Money that can be spent elsewhere.

If my local hobby shops want to compete, they have to start playing the game called business. Just about everyone reading this, (sorry to put any words in any of your mouths) looks for a good deal, whether it be service or price.

Note from a past comment…When you see deals like 50% off they are cutting themselves hoping that you will buy other items at full price. They are also hurting the industry as well when they do this by cutting everyone else. There is no way that anyone can make money this way, if he/she is making money, my first question would be where did they get the items?

There are 2 online retailers that I deal with and trust, and I am narrowing that down to one here very shortly, not because one is bad either, just one is a little more service oriented.

[bdmcnally]

Did you happen to leave a deposit with the item 2 weeks prior? If you didn't why would you expect it to be the same price? Maybe he/she could of sold it before and they didn't know if you were coming back or not. What insurance do they have? Now if you did put a deposit down or confirm the price with them before you left that day it would be a different story, then I would say, find a new shop or a new way to shop!

[bryanbell]

Waiting until page 5 to add more details to the story does sound suspicious but I don't want to be accused of kicking someone while they're down so I'll leave it alone.
This thread is entertaining to read with everyone taking pot shots at each other but arguing through forum posts is pretty lame. It all seems like a waste of time and internet to me but to each their own so flame on with this thread.
Time to go take care of some bidness. [:p]

Bryan

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer

The reason I was so mad was because I'd told the guy I'd be back in a couple of weeks to get the engine and he took it out of the case and put it under the cabinet for me. At that time it was priced at $99.95. Two weeks later I come back to get it and he's marked it up to $124.95... Now you see what I'm saying. Wouldn't you be a little ticked off too ?.

Aside of all this. What type loco is that in the photo you're showing in your replies ?.

TL

The loco is one of the earlier P2K 0-6-0s. I figure in another six months or so it'll have collected enough dust to be considered fully weathered![:D]

I kind of thought it had a familiar look to it. I've got a 0-6-0, but it's motor bit the dust, so now it does side track "sit" duty...

TL

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bdmcnally
[

If my local hobby shops want to compete, they have to start playing the game called business.

Didn't we decide the word is bidness?


m

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

For one thing Tracklayer, and for your information. This is the 2nd time I have piped up to you about one of your threads being allot of BS. So get of your high horse and quit crying about being a victim all the time. I will agree with most here about you putting up a thread and then keep adding things to it to make yourself look like a victim. Look at it this way, you waited to give anymore info until page 5, that was after you got kicked in the head several times. Now your crying about a head injury is causing you to say things out of text!

I guess you like being the victim all the time, and think everyone should have a pitty party for poor old Tracklayer all the time. You have accused several members about them kicking you in the head, then look for expect them to say their sorry. Not this time for me!

[:D] Step aside boys! I want another kick, maybe I can kick it over the fence this time! You dug this hole Tracklayer, so lay in it.

ICRR1964, you've gone completely overboard... Let's you and I just keep our distance from now on. Everyone can see that you're really enjoying running me down. One of these days you'll be the one on the short end of things and I'll be there to get my kick or two in - with interest.

TL

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

Come one guys, look at who posted the thread. He's not happy unless hes got his name up in lights. If he's dumb enough to drive that far for a good deal and then drive back. Well? It was an expensive day that day then. Not to notice his thread he started is almost identical to a post someone left about a week ago, but the words have been changed around. [zzz] ZZZZZZZZZZZ!

Not so fast...if I had agreed to purchase a loco and the proprietor had agree to set it aside, and visibly put it under the counter, the deal was for $99.95 and it was sealed. If I drove all that way to find that he had jacked up the price 25% in anticipation of my wanting it, that is tantamount to breach of contract, and I could probably win in small claims court. I'm not a lawyer, so I could be wrong, especially with respect to that state's law. In my books, that way of doing business is "smarmy."

Crandell,
Another way to look at this is that Tracklayer waited 'til page five to mention
that the loco was set aside for him... maybe it's just me, but it sounds a little
like embellishing the story to favor his complaint(whining).

I have never understood why everyone who has a problem with eBay, a LHS or
an online dealer has to flood the forum with their complaints. These issues
would be better handled if they would just contact the person that they have
the issues with. I am fairly certain that if this evil shop owner could give
his side of the story, we would probably hear a completely different version.

Regardless, the shop owner has every right to price his merchandise as
he sees fit... it's up to us to decide to buy or not buy. And slinging mud without
giving the other party an opportunity to defend themselves is a cowardly way
to handle things. Tracklayer, if you feel so strongly that you were done wrong,
confront the owner... stand up to him. We can do nothing about this.

Also, I fully support my LHS.... both of them. And I appreciate them as much as
they appreciate my bidness. I am thankful to have a LHS where I can
purchase items or just shoot the bull for hours.

I guess some folks wake up looking for things to complain about... I deal with
folks like this all of the time. Life's way too short for that. Dave

Understood, Dave, but until I have incontrovertible evidence that Tracklayer is fibbing, I feel I should take what he tells me at face value. Now, I am not so naive that I don't realize that most of us use hyperbole from time to time, but if we are to accept the facts as stated, then I stand by what I said. If a witness were to offer proof that the events did not take place, I might agree that his waiting to toss in the trump until much later might be taken as grandstanding, or an attempt to save face. God knows we have seen that tactic on this forum before.

-Crandell

Thanks selector, but I should have included everything in the original posting. Never send me to the grocery store without a list if you get my meaning...

TL

[edkowal]

Why is it that when some people have either a good ( I won a KATO diesel on e-bay ) or a bad ( this thread topic ) experience they find it necessary to share it with this community ?

I don't consider my own shopping experiences noteworthy enough to share with this large a community, whether good or bad . ( For the record, I was successfully able to buy a quart of milk and a loaf of bread today. Congratulate me. ) I just don't understand why every little triumph or setback is worthy of being written up.

It's not going to make any difference to me whether someone else has a bad experience at a hobby shop several thousand miles away. Nor will it make any difference to you whether I was able able to find a book that I had been looking for. A little less whining and searching for congratulations about every one of life's little triumphs would be welcome.

-Ed

[ICRR1964]

No problem Tracklayer. You won't have to worry about me starting a thread just for attention. Besides, 9 times out of 10 you are just running off at the head about nothing looking to start some sort of flaming to make you look like some sort of victim. So I just will consider the source where this thread came from. Why do you think I never reply to any of your post. I'll be darned if I will add to your collection of stars and numbers to make you be on the front page all the time. The real good post get bumped from the first and second page real fast from you putting up new threads all the time.

You like to run of at the choppers to everyone else, and thinks thats ok. But when some one does it back to you, its wrong. If your going to dish it out, you better learn to take it! I don't like or attend pitty party's. You did get your thread to turn in to a flamer though, so you got it done.

I will not be one of your followers, I have my own mind and thoughts and knowledge as far as MR is concerned, personally I think your just BS artist. Last post in this thread for me so enjoy![^][^][:)][:)][:-^]

[Anonymous]

I must say, Tracklayer is posting a lot of threads(and polls) that don't provide us w/ much information. However you're not posting as much as you used to so you get some credit there. But who cares "what do you like better large or small steam?" or "which loco would you get rid of if you had to get rid of one?" I'm trying to learn and the threads and polls i mentioned don't help at all (even though i may have replied to some of them).

[Anonymous]

I will pay a couple more dollars to support the Local Hobby Shops...just for the reason being you can always count on them. Ebay is unreliable. SUPPORT your LHS or this hobby may soon be gone.

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bdmcnally

Did you happen to leave a deposit with the item 2 weeks prior? If you didn't why would you expect it to be the same price? Maybe he/she could of sold it before and they didn't know if you were coming back or not. What insurance do they have? Now if you did put a deposit down or confirm the price with them before you left that day it would be a different story, then I would say, find a new shop or a new way to shop!

Oh, please!! Is it really that difficult to understand? If I had agreed to sell you my car and you agreed to come by two weeks later with the cash, and when you returned I said, "Oh, and I want another $500 bucks, by the way," would you agree and smile as you handed over the extra cash....that you knew you were going to have to bring...to get the car that I hadn't shown to anyone else 'cuz I agreed to leave it in the garage, out of sight?

Gawd!!!

[Adelie]

Well, we seem to be split into several distinct camps here:

1) Those who think the hobby shop owner is right. Some think he is always right because the Constitution guarantees him the right to do whatever he wants and forbids customers from going elsewhere or saying anything not glowing about the experience.

2) Some think Tracklayer is a chronic complainer who should be tarred, feathered, shot, the body burned at the stake and the ashes collected, put in a can and given to NASA to ship into outer space.

3) Some who think he should be summarily executed for threatening to be done with the LHS. After all, as the LHS goes, so goes the hobby, so goes the economy, and thus the fate of the free world. Why he must be some sort of communist or something.

4) Some who think Tracklayer is right and the hobby shop in question should be burned to the ground.

5) Still others who don't know if he is right or wrong, but think that, since it's his money, he can spend it where he likes. Those same people probably also believe that, if they don't want to hear what he has to say, they can ignore the thread.

Does that about sum it up?

[selector]

Pretty much...[%-)][(-D]

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Adelie

Well, we seem to be split into several distinct camps here:

1) Those who think the hobby shop owner is right. Some think he is always right because the Constitution guarantees him the right to do whatever he wants and forbids customers from going elsewhere or saying anything not glowing about the experience.

2) Some think Tracklayer is a chronic complainer who should be tarred, feathered, shot, the body burned at the stake and the ashes collected, put in a can and given to NASA to ship into outer space.

3) Some who think he should be summarily executed for threatening to be done with the LHS. After all, as the LHS goes, so goes the hobby, so goes the economy, and thus the fate of the free world. Why he must be some sort of communist or something.

4) Some who think Tracklayer is right and the hobby shop in question should be burned to the ground.

5) Still others who don't know if he is right or wrong, but think that, since it's his money, he can spend it where he likes. Those same people probably also believe that, if they don't want to hear what he has to say, they can ignore the thread.

Does that about sum it up?

Adelie, I've got to hand it to you, you've done your homework on this thread...

I want to make one final statement and then leave the matter behind me.

If I'd known how much mud slinging was going to take place, I wouldn't have ever started the thread. I just wanted to share the bad experience that I had that I felt the other members on the forum might like to know about - I just didn't get all the fact in like I should have in the beginning.

I also want to say that I got angry with ICRR1964 because of what he said, but maybe he's not all that wrong, maybe I do post a lot of nonsense topics just for attention - not that I'm the only member that does, but still, it does clutter up the forum and take up space that could be better used. I will try and refrain from doing this anymore.

To sum up the topic. I feel that I was done wrong by a guy that's always kept his word over the years, and has put a number of items back for me before that I've always gone back and gotten in a couple of weeks as promised, but then, he's never raised the price on them 25% either... And to compound the insult, is rude over a damaged car that I asked him if he would cut me a deal on.
I was already down on train shops because of other bad experiences with other owners, but this took the cake!.

Thank you everyone for your replies and input whether for or against. And like I said in the beginning, if you have a good train shop in your area you are truely blessed...

Happy railroading.

Tracklayer

[CP5415]

Did Tracklayer get anything on paper from the LHS guaranteeing the price on the locomotive in question?

Did his LHS remember why the item was put aside & for whom?

It's been common practice for eons for ANY merchant to raise prices to keep up with inflation, taxes etc etc etc in that merchants business so that he can stay in business & support his/her family.

I'm not slamming, or meaning to slam anyone BUT did he get a guarantee on the price?
When ever I put something aside at my LHS, he always willingly puts on a piece of paper that he provides, one for him & one for me, what I have put aside, at what price & he puts the persons name on the items so that they don't get mixed up.

If he didn't get a guarantee on paper about price, he has no reason to complain.

Just another 2 cents from me.

Gordon

[Anonymous]

I enjoy going to the mrr shop, meet other mrr's, talk about trains, I like to see what I am buying. I like to save money and use it to buy other mrr items. On line/mail order and local mrr shop, they have there good and bad points.

[Anonymous]

Now, having read all of the thread comments, you have to ask yourself the question, "Why would anyone pony up $50,000 or more to open up a new train shop and take the risk of not being able to make enough money to live on?"

Some guys really know how to encourage investment in locally owned and operated retail stores. IMHO Tracklayer's opening comments and the thread title itself may cause potential train shop investors to shy away. There may be some very good folks that will be discouraged from from starting such a venture.

[Adelie]

I think I'm more likely to win the lottery than this thread somehow preventing a LHS from opening, Capn.

There was a thread a few months back asking whether or not anyone would open a hobby or train shop these days. The resounding answer was no. A lot of people had a lot of good points and ideas, and there are certainly examples of "doing it right" that have been successful. But the general feeling was that it was a venture that one probably was not going to earn a living at and may not even break even at.

But if I were convinced I had an idea for a business that could work, I had done all the research necessary, put together a business plan and bounced it off people (impartial, business and finance people) and they thought it was a potential winner, I don't think a thread about somebody's bad experience with another such business and their sour feelings would stop me. If anything, I'd read the thread to see if I can perfect my "what to do" and "what not to do" lists.

[BurlingtonJohn]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Adelie

Well, we seem to be split into several distinct camps here:

1) Those who think the hobby shop owner is right. Some think he is always right because the Constitution guarantees him the right to do whatever he wants and forbids customers from going elsewhere or saying anything not glowing about the experience.

2) Some think Tracklayer is a chronic complainer who should be tarred, feathered, shot, the body burned at the stake and the ashes collected, put in a can and given to NASA to ship into outer space.

3) Some who think he should be summarily executed for threatening to be done with the LHS. After all, as the LHS goes, so goes the hobby, so goes the economy, and thus the fate of the free world. Why he must be some sort of communist or something.

4) Some who think Tracklayer is right and the hobby shop in question should be burned to the ground.

5) Still others who don't know if he is right or wrong, but think that, since it's his money, he can spend it where he likes. Those same people probably also believe that, if they don't want to hear what he has to say, they can ignore the thread.

Does that about sum it up?

Sounds like the beginning of a new poll to me!

Regards,
Burlington John
[8D]

[Anonymous]

Well, if Tracklayer said he wants to now kick ICRR in the face, then he's no better, probably shouldn't have made this comment to bring this topic to the front again, aw well. Without LHSs how are we going to get new people involved in the hobby too!???!!!

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dannydd

Well, if Tracklayer said he wants to now kick ICRR in the face, then he's no better, probably shouldn't have made this comment to bring this topic to the front again, aw well. Without LHSs how are we going to get new people involved in the hobby too!???!!!

Tracklayer (I) didn't say anything about kicking ICRR1964 in the face, he (I) said ICRR1964 had kicked him (me) in the face for no reason.

As for LHSs in general, they're not all bad, just the ones with sky high prices and grumpy, greedy owners that don't keep their word...

TL

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

For one thing Tracklayer, and for your information. This is the 2nd time I have piped up to you about one of your threads being allot of BS. So get of your high horse and quit crying about being a victim all the time. I will agree with most here about you putting up a thread and then keep adding things to it to make yourself look like a victim. Look at it this way, you waited to give anymore info until page 5, that was after you got kicked in the head several times. Now your crying about a head injury is causing you to say things out of text!

I guess you like being the victim all the time, and think everyone should have a pitty party for poor old Tracklayer all the time. You have accused several members about them kicking you in the head, then look for expect them to say their sorry. Not this time for me!

[:D] Step aside boys! I want another kick, maybe I can kick it over the fence this time! You dug this hole Tracklayer, so lay in it.

ICRR1964, you've gone completely overboard... Let's you and I just keep our distance from now on. Everyone can see that you're really enjoying running me down. One of these days you'll be the one on the short end of things and I'll be there to get my kick or two in - with interest.

TL

opps, did you forget this, and no you haven't had a chance to go back and check on what you said, looks like the head injury is showing!!!! reeks of hypocricy!!!!! to high heaven!!!! you can't resist can you??????[xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][}:)][}:)][}:)]

[Anonymous]

As a former part owner of a video game website I can tell you honestly e-commerce ain't the cakewalk everybody's making it out to be. You get overhead here too. My partner and I had to pay start-up fees, hosting fees, and hope to hell that your server actually works. Our server didn't and it would crash every single week. After a few months of this we decided to cut our losses and get out. I'd consider doing it again if I can find a partway decent server or maybe sell something else entirely.

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dannydd

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

For one thing Tracklayer, and for your information. This is the 2nd time I have piped up to you about one of your threads being allot of BS. So get of your high horse and quit crying about being a victim all the time. I will agree with most here about you putting up a thread and then keep adding things to it to make yourself look like a victim. Look at it this way, you waited to give anymore info until page 5, that was after you got kicked in the head several times. Now your crying about a head injury is causing you to say things out of text!

I guess you like being the victim all the time, and think everyone should have a pitty party for poor old Tracklayer all the time. You have accused several members about them kicking you in the head, then look for expect them to say their sorry. Not this time for me!

[:D] Step aside boys! I want another kick, maybe I can kick it over the fence this time! You dug this hole Tracklayer, so lay in it.

ICRR1964, you've gone completely overboard... Let's you and I just keep our distance from now on. Everyone can see that you're really enjoying running me down. One of these days you'll be the one on the short end of things and I'll be there to get my kick or two in - with interest.

TL

opps, did you forget this, and no you haven't had a chance to go back and check on what you said, looks like the head injury is showing!!!! reeks of hypocricy!!!!! to high heaven!!!! you can't resist can you??????[xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][}:)][}:)][}:)]

dannydd, your reply was totally stupid.

TL