Support your local train shop ?...

[Tracklayer]

A friend and I went to our favorite train shop Thursday and were horrified to find that everything in the place had been marked up 25% and then some since our last visit two weeks earlier. When we made a comment to the owner about it, he popped off and said - What can I say guys, inflation... But in his case it's not so much inflation as it is just plain old greed...
I drove over fifty miles up there that day through some of the worst traffic in the southern US to buy a steam loco there that was $100.00 two weeks earlier that was now $125.00. Then to make things worse, I found a freight car with a broken coupler and asked him if he'd be willing to come down on it a little, but he replied - Nope, it can be fixed. Lay it down over here on the counter and I'll get to it later.
I didn't buy anything that day there and I'm not ever going to again. To hell with him and his shop!. From now on I'm buying everything off the web - namely ebay, which by the way I won that same loco on earlier tonight for $78.00 that he wanted $125.00 for... And train shop owners wonder why their businesses are going down the drain.

If you have a good train shop in your area with reasonable prices and an easy going owner, you're lucky...

Tracklayer

[rolleiman]

Don't hold back now.. Tell us what you Really think.. The best one around here closed about 6 or 7 years ago (I'm not certain why, it wasn't for lack of My support) and I've been buying online since. Don't miss the brick shops one bit, largely for the same basic reasons you list. Inflation.. For stuff that's been on the shelves for months and even years. Bull.

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rolleiman

Don't hold back now.. Tell us what you Really think.. The best one around here closed about 6 or 7 years ago (I'm not certain why, it wasn't for lack of My support) and I've been buying online since. Don't miss the brick shops one bit, largely for the same basic reasons you list. Inflation.. For stuff that's been on the shelves for months and even years. Bull.

Hey there rolleiman. What can I say. I was really ticked off and disappointed in the guy after doing business with him all these years. He use to be okay, and would cut you a deal every now and then, but not anymore. And like you said, he's got stock that's been on the shelves for YEARS that he won't come down on, and it will probably still be on the shelves years from now... Oh well. I could care less because I'm not doing business with him anymore. I doesn't break my heart that I won't have that long drive all the way across town through all of that heavy traffic and road construction anymore either...

Tracklayer

[BlackCloud]

I try to buy from the local shops as often as possible. I'd rather pay a few more bucks to support the people that will help me get a faulty engine or mis-cast sprue back to the manufacturer when I don't have anywhere to turn. I'd also much rather have that mom-and-pop hobby shop there than another resale shop or taco stand.

[RedGrey62]

I cannot condone him "popping off" but there may be a lot more to the story. I've owned my own retail business, not a hobby shop, and every year the cost to operate went up. Whether it was rent, insurance, inventory, etc, its just more expensive to run a store and the cost has to cash has to come from somewhere. Our basic rent was almost 2000 and the average sale was about 20 dollars per person, thats 100 sales per months or about 3 per day just to meet rent. It can be very frustrating, to say the least, to run a small business like that. Again, I am not defending his attitude, but you may have caught him on a bad day too.

Rick

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RedGrey62

I cannot condone him "popping off" but there may be a lot more to the story. I've owned my own retail business, not a hobby shop, and every year the cost to operate went up. Whether it was rent, insurance, inventory, etc, its just more expensive to run a store and the cost has to cash has to come from somewhere. Our basic rent was almost 2000 and the average sale was about 20 dollars per person, thats 100 sales per months or about 3 per day just to meet rent. It can be very frustrating, to say the least, to run a small business like that. Again, I am not defending his attitude, but you may have caught him on a bad day too.

Rick

No Rick. This guy does a good business, and probably takes in no less than $1,000.00 a day. He's just gotten real greedy and irritable lately.

TL

[CP5415]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracklayer
No Rick. This guy does a good business, and probably takes in no less than $1,000.00 a day. He's just gotten real greedy and irritable lately.

TL

Are ya sure about how much he's making TL? Maybe his costs have gone up?
Cities usually don't blink about raising taxes. Same with utulity companies.
Do you have any idea how much it costs to run a small business?
You have to factor in a lot of stuff before you even think about making a profit.
Rent, taxes, business supplies, heat, electricity, salaries etc etc etc.
Does anyone here have any idea what small business can do for a community?
The higher taxes they usually pay keep your home taxes low.

Anyone who starts ranting about the prices in a small shop should consider one thing.

WHAT HAPPENS IF THE SAME THING HAPPENS TO THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR?
ONE THING & ONE THING ONLY
UN-EMPLOYMENT FOR THE EMPLOYEES!!!!!
No matter how big your company is, this is what's going to happen, especially in the manufacturing sector.
Look at what's going on at GM & Ford! Close to 50000 people will no longer have a job due to ever increasing costs, largely due to employee costs.

I've always supported my LHS & will continue to do so even if I can get things cheaper on the WWW.

If anyone here loses their job over this, don't come crying here because I can guarantee it will not be tolerated.

End of rant

Gordon

[RedGrey62]

Tracklayer, understood. Obviously I don't have first hand information on the specifics of his shop so I'll take you word for it that he makes fairly good money each day.

That being said, I do prefer going to shops instead of the internet. I have several reasons, many already mentioned here, some more basic in principle dealing with community and fellowship.

Hopefully he comes to his senses and at least tries to establish or re-establish some repore with his customers.

Rick

[bcawthon]

Can't condone the attitude, but we all need to get used to prices going up. Costs of everything from plastic to shipping are increasing. I work with a manufacturer and we are looking at monthly variances in container shipping costs where we used to be able to plan at least 3-6 months at a time. And those variances could tack 25% on to our shipping costs.

Cost of money is going up, too, along with the costs of insurance and other things required to run a business. And it costs money to keep inventory on the shelf, especially stuff that has taken up long-term residence. That's money that isn't available for rent or new products. Sure, the owner can have a clearance, but how much revenue does he need to give up to move the old stuff? Or does he wait for that guy who will walk in and say, "I'm so GLAD you have these, I've been looking for them for years" and happily pay full price? Believe me, that guy exists - he's been me more than once.

I am not against buying on the Internet or eBay (though I am personally very cautious about eBay - you never know where that stuff has been). I did mail order for years for stuff like bulk track purchases. And I know a lot of us are getting pinched between prices that are going up faster than our paychecks. But I still like going down to my LHS and seeing the products and being able to go home with them that day.

Could be the owner of your LHS was crabby because he knew what the response would be from his customers but couldn't avoid raising his prices. Of course, if he wants to keep a bad attitude, he had better get used to losing customers.

Bill C.

[simon1966]

It sounds like a store on the slipery slope to oblivion. Any business owner knows that a large price increase has the potential to lose customers, especially in a market where there is lots of pricing competition. Your description sounds like a man who is just clinging on. Probably not cutting it with the old pricing and even less likely to cut it with the new pricing. It is possible to run a successful business with higher pricing than the competition, but you have to have demonstratable value added to justify the difference. Painless return policy, help and assistance getting setup, valuable advice are examples of things that a bricks and mortar store can offer that have value in the eyes of some customers. Unfortunately for this owner, price hike and attitude will result in his demise.

[jecorbett]

I wouldn't chalk this up to greed. Businesses are in business to maximize profits. They set their prices based on their judgement about what customers like you are willing to pay. If they set their prices too high, they will sell less merchandise and make smaller profits. If other customers feel the way you do, that is what will happen to him. Customers vote with their dollars. That is the way free markets work whether we are talking about your LHS or Exxon-Mobil. They were criticized for making 11 billion dollars last quarter. Why is that bad? They did what any corporation is supposed to do. They maximized shareholder value. If you don't like what they are charging at the pump, drive less or get a more fuel efficient car. The only thing that POed me about that is I didn't own their stock.

As for me, I buy from both my LHS and online. I am concerned about price but service and convenience enter into the equation as well. Sometimes I don't want to wait 3-5 days for an order to arrive. My

[Anonymous]

Ah yes the internet. It is a blessing and curse at the same time. The blessing is that pricing is competitive, the curse is the loss of personal one-on-one service.

My kids are the real MMR of the family, I just manage the money end for now. But if it were not for our LHS, I think my kids would be done with the hobby. The two gentlemen that run the store have really saved us from ourselves. Interestingly, they actually told me to buy an item from the net since they could not come close to the price offered. A manufacture recently announced a price hike and they posted the letter so their customers would know what was going on. With that type of customer care, I do my best to support them whenever I can.

That being said, if their attitude changed overnight, I doubt I support them for too much longer. Yet, they do talk about how difficult it is to run a hobby shop. They may be retiring soon and feel that the shop space is worth more than the shop.

I hear the same complaints in the musical instrument biz. Still some LMS survive because of the people and not the prices.

[Medina1128]

Before you condemn him, there are some points you need to remember:
1) Almost everything associated with our hobby is made from plastic (oil).
2) Everything in his store had to be shipped to him and he had to pay for it.
3. I am lucky in that my hobby shop (not too local. It's about 70 miles away) still has special discounts every Saturday.
4. The discount houses will be soon to follow with price hikes, as well. And how long was it since the last price hike at your LHS?

[Anonymous]

Atlas just had a 10% increase in their prices, but they did announce it well ahead of time. But the kicker of it for me was our LHS increased the prices on all his Atlas that he already in stock, now this is down right dirty if you ask me! The guy who owned the store before him never did that.

[MidlandPacific]

Remember - oil prices are pretty high, and oil's a key component of plastics. John Glaab from Peach Creek Shops has posted a note on his website suggesting that Bachmann may be considering a big price increase to offset increased costs. And that's before you start thinking about the costs of heating oil.

Why not take advantage of it yourself - buy Exxon Mobil stock? That's what I did......

[jecorbett]

QUOTE: Originally posted by swdave

Atlas just had a 10% increase in their prices, but they did announce it well ahead of time. But the kicker of it for me was our LHS increased the prices on all his Atlas that he already in stock, now this is down right dirty if you ask me! The guy who owned the store before him never did that.

Why is that dirty. When he sells those Atlas engines, he is going to have to replenish his stock at higher prices. When Atlas raised their prices it put upward price pressure on everyone who sells their products. Your LHS still has to compete against other LHS and internet retailers. If you can find Atlas cheaper elsewhere, buy it. If not pay the higher price or go without. There is nothing dirty about a businessman increasing the asking price for his merchandise. No one says you have to pay it.

[Anonymous]

I worked in a hobby shop once where the owner had me re-sticker existing old stock to reflect the newer retail price. In other words, he bought the merchandise a year or two before the price went up, but wanted the new retail price on them. The computer inventory labels he used did not come off - so I had to place the new one over the old one. Usually a well-trained eye could read the numbers beneath.

[Anonymous]

The local train shop here is kind of cool. The owner will mark down inventory that has been on the shelves for over a year. Not everything, but it's common to see "red tags" on items on any given month. Usually the sale prices are close to wholesale too. He also has occasional sales where "All Athearn 25% off this month" is up on the dry erase board. Or "All books..." or "All paints..." etc.

There ARE some good hobby shops still standing out there!

[Anonymous]

I enjoy buying from my local hobby shops. I like having someone who can aswer questions and provide service if I need repair/replacement parts.

BUT I know I pay more for it. The cheapest hobby shop I've found in Dallas (Discount Trains) is still more than online (www.1stplacehobbies.com) I will still use them as long as I get good service and immediate products with no shipping.

There is no excuse for the glib answers he gave you however. He may be having a bad day or bad month but there is no excuse for bad customer service. I have worked retail and owned my own ar conditioning business. There is no excuse for bad customer service!

I would quit using that shop too. Hopefully you can find something else around you (with that drive...maybe not) Otherwise welcome to onlone shopping! [8D]

[Anonymous]

Well tracklayer if you want to see a real joke of a hobby store there are two hobbytown usa stores located here I would like you to meet. The owner would rather screw you than sell you something and service doesn't exist. His attitude is easily worse than what you encountered, anyone with a complaint he calls the police and throws them out of the store! Over and over and over again! This one man has done so much GOOD for other area businesses they hope he always stays in business, because everytime he pisses off someone, one of the smaller stores REAP big rewards. As for traveling, I know it is frustrating, but we do not learn where to shop until we buy from the scum bags that run a bad business. As for increasing rent, utilities etc. you can understand real fast WHY e-bay stores have taken off so well!

[Anonymous]

My LHS is a Hobbytown U.S.A. The owner owns one other, I believe. I have never been to the other, but I have heard nothing but good things about it.

Back on the subject of the local shop, the owner is flexible. Some items she/he discounts nada, but on others, she/he'll discount up to 50%! I got an Intermountain BN box car for $15, which was 50% off. She/he keeps her/his shelves stocked with HO, N, O, and G items. She/he also keeps local roadnames stocked, as well as some western roads. She/he always has at least one person in there that knows a bit about model railroading and the prototypes.

So, I'd say I'm pretty lucky.


Matt

[Anonymous]

I prefer my LHS because he has piles of Athearn b-b engines for a very reasonable price. And he's cheaper than most online retailers for new stuff. I shop on-line as much as i do at the LHS though.

[Anonymous]

I dont have first hand information but I can tell you that I was blessed with many good LHS's in the Baltimore/Gettysburg area while growing up. One I know of went under when he failed to keep up his mortage with the local bank. He finally went under simply because the store he once had for the people was little more than 4 walls with boxes on the floor in the later years. Sad.

There are several good LHS's here in Arkansas and I dont have the problems with the owners stated here. In fact they communicate very well, support the community and basically do the best they can for customers. I sometimes did not get a better price for a item but was happy to purchase it at the LHS because they deserve the business.

Keep in mind that Paints, parts, wheels and couplers probably make up a large part of the LHS sale. Kinda hard to maintain a living with food on the table at whatever small amount of gross comes in. Hopefully they will buy the Kits, RTR and locomotives from time to time.

Im sorry that you had the bad experiences with the store that increased prices and showed a bad attitude to boot. I encourage you to see that there are other fish in the sea.

Once or twice I hunted down OOP items on walthers.com using the LHS's that they shipped the items to. And each time I have contacted the store and was given just the same service as if I was actually physically walking in the front door. Wonderful stuff.

Stores like MB Klein in Baltimore Maryland and others have a strong presence on the net, you might actually enjoy doing business with them. They still have brick and mortor stores too but have changed with the modern times to keep the business rolling.

I think this really says that keeping the customer happy and feeling welcome is ultimately the best way to feed the family on a LHS business.

[ouengr]

Is it just me or are the hobby shops failing to understand what made Wal-Mart such a success. Wal-Mart makes money by selling an individual item at a minimal profit and driving customers into the store. In turn the customer buys more items and visits more oftern. Hobby Shops that charge MSRP or a premium do not recieve repeat business from me. I want hobby shops to be successfull, however they are in a world where they have to compete. I know of one LHS that has almost no inventory and everything that comes in is for a specific customer order. This was he inventory costs are kept way down and his prices generally reflect it.

Another possible option for the LHS is to offer consignment sales. Nearly every modeler I know has things that don't quite fit in their collections and that they would like to get rid of. The LHS I referred earlier has an extensive consignment section. The terms for the consignment are fairly simple. The LHS sells the the items and keeps a total that can be applied toward new items. In the event that the seller would prefer to take the cash out, he charges a fee for managing the sell of the items. Generally I have done quite well in the consignment sales. Generally I have been able to sell itmes for what I paid and this has kept me from spending cash out of my pocket for nearly two-years.

I don't mean to rant here, but I am sick and tired of hearing LHS whine and complain about competitors. This is part of the free market. My expereince is that many of the on-line retailers are trasitional brick and mortar stores that have expandded their businees through the internet. Some old LHS will not survive but others will thrive. The key is to figure out what you can do to gain and keep customers. The LHS that artificially jacked prices up 25% should reconsider this decision or start to consider a store closing clearance.

The costs assocaited with items in this hobby are rising far faster that the rate of inflation or wage increases. We need to vote with our money and demand lower prices from the LHS and manufacturers. If we do not continue to apply pressure to lower prices, then there is nothing to control them. We all want to be able to purchase more stuff for less money. If we don't hold the retail sector's feet to the fire on inflation, then the situation will only get worse. I enjoy the hobby and I want to see it expand. Prices are already at the point where many people don't even consider the model railroading due to the costs.

[Anonymous]

Walmart will not sell the quality items you might get at the LHS.

I think walmart had a trainset in HO but is really JUNKY when compared to similar LHS offerings for a few dollars more. To have a GOOD product is a must in this hobby today. (Kaydee, Metal wheels, can motors or even dcc with flywheel and 8 wheel pick up etc....)

Sure we can sell trainsets to kids today who might be tomorrow's LHS customer buying brass. So let;s make them sets really guud. Hanh?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Hobby Shops that charge MSRP

you should NEVER pay msrp. My LHS discounts 35% off msrp for most things.

[loathar]

I don't mind paying a little more if the service is good but I hate that "your keeping me from my sandwich" attitude. I was just thinking back to the service I've gotten over 35 years of shopping and I can only remember 2-3 shops out of about 30 that didn't have bad attitudes. I'm the one doing them a favor by dropping my ca***here. NOT the other way around. I've given up on shop loyalty.

[Milwhiawatha]

I have a hobbytown USA where I live and its a great place to visit and the owner is awsome infact he was talking about me coming in to run the train department when its done and I know almost nothing compared to the most of people. I also have the luxuary of visiting Walthers Showroom to get my items was there yesterday always friendly people there.

[Anonymous]

I agree with Tracklayer here. I don't know about you but 25 dollars is quite a price hike to me and as for the guy not willing to come down on the price of the car with the busted coupler, I'd walk out too. I don't pay full price for damaged goods.

[RedGrey62]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ouengr

Is it just me or are the hobby shops failing to understand what made Wal-Mart such a success. Wal-Mart makes money by selling an individual item at a minimal profit and driving customers into the store. In turn the customer buys more items and visits more oftern.

Sorry, the Wal Mart solution doesn't work here. It works for Wal Mart because they sell so much stuff, everything from food to electronics and toys to clothes. Their buying power also allows them to get much lower prices from the manufacturers (personally I call it brow beating the companies to play ball). Don't get me wrong, it works, but it will not work for a LHS. Caboose Hobbies may be able to do it, but they have a nationwide following, same with some of the bigger on-line stores.

This may suprise many of you, but one of the main reasons I buy locally is taxes. When I ran my retail store, I had so many folks proud of the fact that they bought from QVC or on-line and didn't have to pay sales tax. Instead, they lined the pockets of those companies with the "shipping and handling" charges which rarely add up to what they're charging. The sales tax they saved would have been less than the S&H charges, plus those taxes go towards little things like police, fire, ambulance, libraries, schools, roads, etc.

But that, is for another thread altogether!

Rick