Help Wanted, Starting my own model railroad.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966

LB, I am a Digitrax user and would not suggest you consider the SEB, while it is the middle system of the Digitrax range, it does not have the ability to read back CV's. The lower end Zephyr (what I have) can do this and it is a very capable system. I actually have a SEB as well, but just use the command station as an extra booster for my Zephyr.

Noted!

So I'm reading this manual just to get an idea of how DCC works and brings up questions.

Even if I went with the Xephyr, how big does ones layout get before you need to starting adding boosters?? It said in the manual that when adding boosters your layout should electrically set up in 'blocks'. Ok so how do turnouts come into play when you go to switch trains from one block to the other?? I assume you use insulated frogs with DCC yes?? And dosne't the turnouts bridge power from one block to the other?? So then why do you need to set up your layout that way?? That part I'm a little confused about and exactly what they mean.

[simon1966]

In the Digitrax world you have the loconet bus that connects all the Digitrax bits together. In the case of my layout there is a Loconet connection from the Zephyr daisy chained around the layout to other components such as my DB150 (the booster command station module of the SEB configured to be a booster only), UP5 facia panels and my UR90 Infra Red wireless module. My loconet is also connected to my PC via a Locobuffer 2 interface. The loconet wiring is basically a 6 conductor telephone type wire strung under the layout. So I have got 2 power boosters on the layout. The Zephyr and the DB150. Each of these powers a different region of my layout. The Zephyr booster is connected to all the trackage in my yard, the DB150 to all the rest of the layout. Think of each of these sections as being different power districts. They are completely separate from each other by gaps cut into the rail in the yard lead track. So as a locomotive leave my yard it crosses the gap between the section powered by the Zephyr and the section powered by the DB150. To get power to the tracks, I have run a 2 wire heavier guage power bus under the layout each of the power districts and then run thinner feeder wires up and soldered to the tracks. These power buses must be separate from each other. In other words the output from each booster has to go to independent track sections.

Hopefully this bit is clear. You can if you want go a step further and break the output from each booster down into smaller isolated sections for short protection and blocks for signalling and loco detection.

To answer the other bits of your post. I happen to use Peco Insulfrog turnouts, but there is no reason why you can not use non isolated frogs if appropriate wiring is done. (See the www.wiringfordcc.com web site for more on this). Insuls have worked fine for me and seemed to be easier to install. As mentioned above, my gap between the 2 power district blocks is actually on a straight section of track and not at a turnout.

Hope this helps with the understanding a bit.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966

In the Digitrax world you have the loconet bus that connects all the Digitrax bits together. In the case of my layout there is a Loconet connection from the Zephyr daisy chained around the layout to other components such as my DB150 (the booster command station module of the SEB configured to be a booster only), UP5 facia panels and my UR90 Infra Red wireless module. My loconet is also connected to my PC via a Locobuffer 2 interface. The loconet wiring is basically a 6 conductor telephone type wire strung under the layout. So I have got 2 power boosters on the layout. The Zephyr and the DB150. Each of these powers a different region of my layout. The Zephyr booster is connected to all the trackage in my yard, the DB150 to all the rest of the layout. Think of each of these sections as being different power districts. They are completely separate from each other by gaps cut into the rail in the yard lead track. So as a locomotive leave my yard it crosses the gap between the section powered by the Zephyr and the section powered by the DB150. To get power to the tracks, I have run a 2 wire heavier guage power bus under the layout each of the power districts and then run thinner feeder wires up and soldered to the tracks. These power buses must be separate from each other. In other words the output from each booster has to go to independent track sections.

Hopefully this bit is clear. You can if you want go a step further and break the output from each booster down into smaller isolated sections for short protection and blocks for signalling and loco detection.

To answer the other bits of your post. I happen to use Peco Insulfrog turnouts, but there is no reason why you can not use non isolated frogs if appropriate wiring is done. (See the www.wiringfordcc.com web site for more on this). Insuls have worked fine for me and seemed to be easier to install. As mentioned above, my gap between the 2 power district blocks is actually on a straight section of track and not at a turnout.

Hope this helps with the understanding a bit.

Ok I understand what your saying about having seperate sections of your layout powered by two different boosters. Say your Zephyr is your command booster, and that you said powered your rail yard, electric current cutt off from the rest of your layout cause that's what the other booster is for. When your running your DCC engine in your railyard from the main command module, how does it continue to run the engine once it crosses over to the track that is being powered by your other booster?? Since it's a seperate block how can your command controller continue to control the train once it's on the other section that some other booster is now powering??? Are the two connected where your other booster knows it's only to be a powerbooster but still transmits the commands from the main controller through the that 'block' of track for the enine?

Do you know what I'm trying to say?? Exactly how big is your layout that requires you to have two seperate 'blocks' anyway??

When I start my layout it's going to be 8X15 feet and a big enough area in the middle for two people to stand in. The trains will go all the way around the two people standing inside, there will be no 'reversing' where the trains do a 180 and come back onto the same track, I will most likely never have more than 10 trains running at one time no matter how big my layout gets due to it will only be my wife and I running it. I will probably have more than one engine per train sometimes, no more than three, but even in that case never more than 10 running at one time even with someone else. I want the system to automate the turnouts, any trackside accessories, I plan for my engines to have lights and sound as well.

Will the Zephyr system be enough to handle all that or will I have to plan ahead when laying track to do these 'block' sections to have an additional booster for extra power or do I need a little better system than the Zephyr?? The Zephyr, an extra controller for my wife to run trains, and possibly an extra booster seem to be what I need for how my layout is going to be.

I'm good and understand the system in how it works up to the point of adding additional boosters and putting your layout into 'block' sections and how to wire for that.

Geez, why does getting started in this hobby seem so high tech?? Is there no "DCC for Dummies" book out there anywhere that explains all the aspect of how to set a system up and expanding it?? To know how to make your trains run, how to make your turnouts work from it, track side accessories, how to wire it all up correctly etc?? I admit I'm a dummy to all this and I need help [xx(]

[simon1966]

The Zephyr is 2 elements of the DCC system in one box. The booster part puts the power on the track. The command station part sends the DCC commands to the boosters via the loconet wiring, both of them in my case, and the boosters both deliver the commands to the respective power disricts. So as the loco passes from the yard power district to the main line it is still seeing the command signals from the Zephyr command station as both boosters are broadcasting the commands to the track.

Based on your track description, I would say that the Zephyr will be just fine. Maybe add a couple of UP5 face plates and a UT4 throttle and you are good to go. My Zephyr can run 5 sound equipped locos at one time and in all honesty could run my whole layout. I have the extra booster because I wanted to get a DT400 throttle and managed to pick up an entire SEB starter set off e-bay for what the DT400 would have cost on its own from the local hobby shop.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966

The Zephyr is 2 elements of the DCC system in one box. The booster part puts the power on the track. The command station part sends the DCC commands to the boosters via the loconet wiring, both of them in my case, and the boosters both deliver the commands to the respective power disricts. So as the loco passes from the yard power district to the main line it is still seeing the command signals from the Zephyr command station as both boosters are broadcasting the commands to the track.

Based on your track description, I would say that the Zephyr will be just fine. Maybe add a couple of UP5 face plates and a UT4 throttle and you are good to go. My Zephyr can run 5 sound equipped locos at one time and in all honesty could run my whole layout. I have the extra booster because I wanted to get a DT400 throttle and managed to pick up an entire SEB starter set off e-bay for what the DT400 would have cost on its own from the local hobby shop.

Thank you very much for explaining that in more detail. I need it 'spelled out' for me as I know very little about it. I'm just trying to save myself possible more work and headache later by figuring out what I need up front and what it can do. I don't want it to be sometime in the future, my layout is almost completely build scenery and all, all to find out adding that one more loco or trackside accessory kills my amps where I have to add another booster and do rewiring, dis-assembly to turn my layout into 'block' sections to handle everything or is it safe even though my layout may not need it, to go ahead and do that from the start just in case. That is what I'm trying to figure out.

[simon1966]

I don't power any of my accessories from my Zephyr. I modified a PC power supply from an old PC to handle everything!
http://wiki.ehow.com/Convert-a-Computer-ATX-Power-Supply-to-a-Lab-Power-Supply

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lord_Beelzebub

To get aquanted with DCC I just went ahead and got on Digitrax website and printed off the owners manual of the starter set for the Super Empire Builder Advanced system. They have 5 so I printed out the middle one between the cheapest and most expensive to kind of judge what this one can do and get an idea if this is the one I'm looking for, or if this one is a big more than I need, or if i need a better one than this. I thought it nice they have the owners manuals you can save and print off to read and get a better idea what each can and can't do.

For those of you who do have a Digitrax system, what system do you have, how big is your layout appx, how many trains do you run on it at a time, does it also operate turnouts (about how many) and other accessories??

I'm still tying to judge what system I need, does it support sound, etc.

Digitrax Chief user Here.. The basic configuration of my layout can be viewed on my website, about 1/3 way down on the front page. Overall, 22x30 (roughly) L shaped.. It Can support 4 or 5 full time operators but for the most part,I'm down there by myself. I CHOSE the chief, after having the empire builder for the 2 abilities of a Programming track and CV Readback. Both, at the time, weren't possible with the empire builder. When the DT400 came out, I was one of the first in line to get one (one of the few times I'd make that statement). I don't bother with using the DCC to control turnouts or any of that fun stuff, just to control the trains. Electrically, the layout is divided into 3 districts, all with reverse loop capability, using the PM4 (replaced by the PM42). I've had the system up and running for about 7 or 8 years, and haven't given another system a second thought (though I'm sure they all serve thier owners quite well). Yes, it supports sound quite nicely.. Just ask my Broadway Limited Locos..

[Anonymous]

Is there any freeware or cheap CAD model railroading software to download?? Is any of that worth it?? I'd like to toy around with ideas of track layouts and such on it to help give me some ideas for the actuall thing. Anyone use one, are there any good ones??

[timthechef]

If your using a Wintel computer both Model railroader and Athern have free programs that you can download from there website. If your on a Mac like me your out of luck. (this is the only downfall of owning a Mac)