Help Wanted, Starting my own model railroad.

[SpaceMouse]

I just used risers to support the plywood.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I just used risers to support the plywood.

Now THAT is what I wanted to see. That looks good. Are the raisers just plywood cutouts of sourts on end supporting that??? How did you fasten the raisers to the table top, and the plywood the track is on to the raisers??? You use nails, some kind of glue....???? I guess I should probably get my hands on more how too books and such that would most likely explain these things in detail right??

That's a cool layout though. Is that where you currently are on yours or is that an earlier pic from when you first got started?? What's your time era, the kind of trains your using/going to use, etc...

[cwclark]

you mentioned what kind of plywood you want to use...personally i use 3/4" but a lot of guys like the pink or blue foam board on plywood or by itself....I use the foam board but it leads up to the plywood and the track does'nt sit on it...a lot of guys will debate the use of 1/2" and even 3/8" plywood but i've used them in the past and found that the 3/4" is the way to go..it is sturdy and won't warp..granted..it's heavy and cumbersome but once it's in place it's not going anywhere and it makes a very nice looking roadbed once the track and cork road bed are in because of it's thickness..try to stay away from sectional track or the preformed sectional track with the road bed...flex track on cork roadbed is the easiest way to go...you can fudge flex track into odd ball radii that you normally can't with the sectional track....check out my picture album..it goes into a lot of detail with explanations on a lot of stuff in this hobby go to trains 1 and 2 http://community.webshots.com/user/bayouman1 chuck

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lord_Beelzebub

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I just used risers to support the plywood.

Now THAT is what I wanted to see. That looks good. Are the raisers just plywood cutouts of sourts on end supporting that??? How did you fasten the raisers to the table top, and the plywood the track is on to the raisers??? You use nails, some kind of glue....???? I guess I should probably get my hands on more how too books and such that would most likely explain these things in detail right??

That's a cool layout though. Is that where you currently are on yours or is that an earlier pic from when you first got started?? What's your time era, the kind of trains your using/going to use, etc...

They are 1x3 and it is my current layout. Click the link below to see the layout. It has come a ways since those pictures but you will get the idea. I have torn apart right now to adjust the track/scenery level and add staging. Here is the current state. the time is 1885.



Click on Chuck's link as well. He has a good tutorial running on how to build the risers. I'm one of thse that went with the 1/2 inch ply.

[Paul W. Beverung]

LB: It looks like you are getting some good advice there. I'd like to add that you should take alook at open grid bench work. It is very easy to make changes in terrain and track elevations. There is a book on bench available that would make the open grid principal more understandable than my poor efforts. As for what railroads were in Illinois in the 50s and 60s there were a bunch that are no longer around. Chicago & Eastern Illinois, Milwaukee Road, Chigaco & Illinois Midland, Chicago, Burlington and Quincy, Illinois Central, and I know that I've missed some. The time frame that you are looking at is great for the large number of railroads that were around. Mainly I hope that you have fun and enjoy the hobby. If you want to E-mail me with any questions I'll be happy to help.

[devils]

For fixing ply roadbed to risers I'd recommend Screws as they allow for adjustment if you need to alter anything later.
Look in the kalmbach books for some of their project layouts from MR, there are some very good ones with a full how to do it list like in the current series running in the magazine.
Have a look at Woodland Scenics and Walthers Built Ups for decent ready made buildings. You can detail them to make them individual.
Peco track is very good if you want positive and robust switches, Code 83 is the US style. It's flextrack but if you have a motor tool and cutting disc it's easy to lay and shape. Remember to put a couple of pins a few ties apart near the join to stop a kink developing.
Soldering secret is to clean and the 'tin both pieces to be joined, hold them together and then apply the iron and let the solder flow. The tip of a screwdriver holding them together stops burnt fingers as you apply heat and as it cools again.
Try and find a local group or train show to visit and see how it's done before you start. I've been in my club 20 years and now I'm showing others how to get started.
Best of luck and hope there's something of use above, cheers

[CP5415]

This is what I'm using right now

Basic benchwork - open grid, easy to build & easy to install risers for grades

plywood - 1/2" in most places but I have 3/4" in places - all of it screwed down & has never warped in 6 years in my attic.

Foam - I've used it to to build up an area for future sceniking

Plan out what you want to do. Road name to run, etc etc etc
Setup a basic oval to allow you something to run while you are building the other layout.
I did this until I figured out what track plan I wanted to go with.

ASK QUESTIONS! Lots of them. The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask!

Gordon

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lord_Beelzebub


Rolliman i hear what your saying about BNSF & and Northfolk Southern being around in the time era I'm wanting to do. Wasn't Illinois Central Gulf though in that time era. BTW, have you all got Feb's issue of Model Railroader yet?? Near the back there is a pic of an orange and white Illinois Central Gulf engine, that is almost exactly how mine looks that I still have from when i was a kid. So exaclty what rail company was running around the midwest back in the late 50's early 60's near Illinois?? Please keep in mind I do want to stay as close possble to my time era, but I'm not trying to be stone cold exact.

Thank you.

LB, I'm not a railroad genology historian so I don't know all the whys wherefores and who's of railroad merger history.. I'll tell you what I Do know however.. The railroad I go after is the Wabash RR, which my grandfather worked for up until about 1960 before he went to work full time for the union. He ran mostly passenger out of Detroit and his return journey began at Montpelier Ohio with a crew change.. Roughly 100 miles each way. His train would then continue on to St. Louis and was what became to be called the Wabash Cannonball (I have his old pay time books to prove it). The Railroad itself, in October 1964 became part of the Norfolk & Western through a merger than began to take shape somewhere around 1960 (found the press pack online describing how it would be set up).. Along with the Wabash, at the same time, The Nickel Plate Road (NYC&StL), the Akron, Canton, and Youngstown (ACY) also became part of the N&W.. There were a few others as well but they escape me at the moment. The N&W remained in operation until (I believe) 1991 when they merged with the Southern RR and became the Norfolk Southern.

Here's a picture of what the Wabash looked like before the orignal merger..

[image]http://www.rolleiman.com/trains/wab-map2.gif[/image]

Here's a better one but I'm just giving a link because the file is 800k..

http://www.rolleiman.com/trains/wabsysmap.jpg

The red line you see going up through Michigan on the latter map is the Ann Arbor RR, which was not part of the merger into the N&W..

The BNSF, as you may have guessed, is a merger between Burlington Northern and the AT&SF (Santa Fe) railroads. The Burlington Northern, was a collection of railroads including the Great Northern, Denver and Rio Grande Western, Northern Pacific (I believe) and several others.. The BNSF merger, is only 10 or 15 years old if I'm not mistaken..

Around 1968, the NYC and the Pennsylvania RR and a couple others became the Penn Central.. Both of those railroads were HUGE in the east and midwest at one time but I think they collapsed under thier own weight. Sometime in the mid-1970s, the Penn Central along with a large host of others became part of Conrail.. A government venture that was probably doomed for failure for just that reason. 1974, I Think. The ICG May fit in somewhere in there. Not sure. 1995 or 1996, MUCH to the dismay of my N scale freind who Swore it would Never happen (guess what He modeled), The Conrail was split up between the NS and CSX (Which is the Chesepeke and Ohio, Baltimore and Ohio, several southern lines melded into one railroad)..

Here's another website...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabash_Railroad

I'm pointing to the Wabash only for my own interest (it's the link I have saved).. Down at the bottom of the page is a list of fallen flags (railroads that no longer exist).. Just click on ICG or anything else that interests you and get what you can from it..

Here's one more that you may find interesting.. since you mentioned ICG

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ic/ic.html

LOTS of neat looking stuff there.. I wi***he Wabash one was that complete..

Good luck,
Jeff
[8D]

[Trainnut484]

Welcome back to the hobby LB [:)].

I think the subject of track, power systems, and motive power choices in manufactures has been well covered from posts upward, and I see that you're wanting to model the late 50's and early 60's, which is a broad timespan. If you're wanting to incorporate passenger trains, you may want to focus on a specific year and date, because most railroads were still changing their passenger equipment during that time. If your favorite railroad has a historical society, you'll find a wealth of information from other modelers and railfans that are experts on your favorite railroad.

Also, find some retired railroaders from the railroad. But, don't wait too long to ask questions as they are well past retirement age, and their knowledge might be gone.

Happy rails,

Russell

[edkowal]

For easy web access to what's been done by others, try the following directory sites:

RailServe's "Hypertext Switchyard" at: http://www.railserve.com/
TrainNet's "International Railway Links" at: http://www.tadlane.com/rrlinks.htm
NMRA's "Directory of World Wide Rail Sites" at: http://cwrr.com/nmra/

RailServe's and the NMRA's pages are already categorized. You can generate your own category at TrainNet by searching using a term like "layout" If you're more specific, you can get a more specific result.

There are more of these dircetory type sites out there. These are pretty all-encompassing, though, and they're just the ones I'm most familiar with.

-Ed

[Anonymous]

Railroads that were NOT around in your time period-
-BNSF
-CSX
-NS
RR's that were-
-illinois central (IC gulf came in the mid-1970's)
-Chicago Burlington & Quincy
-Chicgo & North Western
-Chicgo Great Western
-Rock Island- there are many more that i did not list.
Brands of engines worth buying-
-Atlas
-Athearn (Genesis, RTR, or b-b)
-PROTO 1000 / 2000
-KATO
there are others that i did not list. Plan on spending at least $50 for a good engine. Chances are the engines you have now (that don't run) are "train-set" grade. Most high-grade engines would still run after 25 years. For rolling stock there is no one brand that stands out.
bottom line_ RESEARCH the railroad you chose to model. You can't just buy anything w/ the RR you are modeling. That doesn't work. Ask yourself - What locomotives were in servce at that time? what paint scheme(s) did they wear? What types of freight cars (or passenger cars) were in service? Remeber the members of this forum will answer any questions you may have.

[Anonymous]

I don't think any of my engines came with train sets, that they were bought at a hobby store. The best engine I had that worked was my Cotten Belt and man was that engine heavy. One engine that's the most new that still runs is a Union Pacific. That one seems like it might be a train set engine cause it looks it and is way too light.

Ok, guys last couple days I've been reading up a little on DCC. i know I want to use it, Digitraxx seems to be a system that capabile of doing a lot of things and is very flexable and expandible. So here is my question for suggestions.

As I stated before my starting layout will be appx. 8 by 15 feet with space cut out in the middle to stand in. At this point I want to be able to run 4-6 trains/engines. And I say that based on what I read that you can have have multipule engines to one train and work them simutainiously correct?? So just because I may have 8 trains on the track, some will be working together as one. Sometime in the future my layout will expand through the wall into an adjoining room where they layout in that room alone will be double the size. But since it will always only be my wife and I running the trains, I want a DCC system that can handle a lot of turnouts, accessories, and a hand full of engines.

I know Digitraxx top of the line system can do everything possible and operate 120 trains, I don't think I'd ever need a system that big, but I think I'd need something a bit more upscale than they Zypher right??? That's my question, which one would be best for me for my current and for expanding???

I've seen other threads out here talking about feeders, what gage wire to use in certain applications, etc...I know none of this. I don't expect anyone to re-write a book on here telling me all the in's and out's of this technology, but can anyone point me to some books or online material that does so I know and have a good idea what it's all about

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

www.wiringfordcc.com is a good place to start.

Sounds to me like you're still inside the "starter set" envelope, but I always recommend going for a "full" DCC system from the get-go. It's very likely you'll get there anyway, and buying a starter THEN a full system later is more than just buying the full system now.

One thing that can easily push you beyond a starter system is sound-equipped locos. They draw significantly more amperage than a non-sound loco, and all of a sudden that 2 or 2.5 amps gets eaten up real quick - especially if you like to let your locos standing idle still run their sound. Steam locos do a lot of cool stuff just sitting idle - air pump, steam blowoff, etc. so many folks DO want that. If that's the case, that means ANY loco just sitting on the track is drawing amperage of note. Many report that once they get sound, they are 'hooked' (I would be in that camp), and it's the quickest way to find yourself having to replace a starter-level DCC set.

Now, which set to buy??? Yes, Digitrax is a very good system. I particularly like how their cabs have _two_ throttles built in so you can run two engines without "switching" back and forth. BUT...

I consider that DT has one fatal flaw...maybe. If you ever think you'll want to do wireless control (and my answer is... you will...) the Digitrax wireless system is second rate (at best), in my book. It's uni-directional - the wireless throttle can send commands to the system, but cannot receive feedback. There are various gripes with this, but the biggest is that you cannot switch locos wirelessly. If you're running a loco and want to switch to another loco, you must plug the throttle in... For me, that would mean A LOT of unplugging and replugging... this about 95% defeats the whole purposeof wireless, from my standpoint.

Most other systems use duplex wireless, so you can do anything wireless you can with a cord, and there's little reason to ever "plug in". EasyDCC, NCE and Lenz (using the CVP wireless throttle) all do duplex wireless.

I'll go so far as to say picking a DCC system from among these four is simply based on two areas where they have signfiicant differences. On the fundamentals, I think it's largely a wash: Will it run 99 throttles or 999? For 99% of us who aren't buying for a massive club layout... who cares? I believe the two key areas of differentiation are:

1) Throttle. Single most important element. Do you like how the throttle is laid out and how it works? A very, very personal thing to which I believe there is NO right answer except what's right for you.

2) Wireless (and you can ignore this if you're _certain_ you'll never want to go cordless)... Questions to consider are: Can you live with simplex rather than duplex communication? Are their wireless throttles laid out different than the regular throttles (Digitrax, NCE = No; CVP, Lenz = yes) and do you like them? Etc.

That's my thoughts. Have fun! I can tell you this: the underlying question of DC versus DCC I have zero doubt whatsoever that DCC is the way to go.

Casey

[jfugate]

Ah yes, DCC. Let me point out a couple of threads on here that will help you figure out what system you want and what the important considerations are for DCC.

First, there's my picking the best system FORUM CLINIC:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=49375

Then there's my DCC how-to FORUM CLINIC:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=36389

These could probably both use a bump, so I'm going to do that to bring them to the front again.

[Anonymous]

Thank you...thank you...thank you...

I got so much to learn about I feel overwhelmed and really don't know where to start and what order to accompli***hings. Obviously you can't do anything without a surface to do it on, so I know that's my first step. Right now I'm just learning about this DCC, what I've read in what it can do is totally cool. Yes I want sound, effects, I want it all. I feel lost cause I only know so little about the technology but don't know what all it's capible of, nothing on how to wire it all up to work properly, how to get the engines to work on the system. Yes i want DCC right from the start from laying my first section of track. I don't want to start off with DC then swith to DCC, I don't want a starter system of DCC that I'll have to turn around later and get a better system that will do what I'll then be wanting from it. I want a system that can more than handle this strarting layout but has the muscle to handle what I add to it later. I think the biggest and best system is a little too much for what I need but I think I'll need a little better than basic too.

I don't expect anyone out here to hold my hand as some might think with me asking so many questions, I just need direction to books, online websites, etc...

Have any of you felt overwhelmed like this when you first got started?? I'm sure to all you pros all this is second nature and your a wiz at it and doing it. I wish I knew someone personally that is into this hobby that i can talk with about it and learn from.

As always, thanks for all your replies and help.

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Ok here is a question that you'll all think is dumb of me to ask cause to you this is probably well known. And don't be pissed at me cause I didn't 'Search' for it.

What technology is in the steam train engines where they can actually let off smoke and such??

[jfugate]

They put a little heating element in the smokestack and you put drops of a special smoke oil in the stack. The result is some wafting smoke that looks kind of like cigarette smoke.

However ...

Using that stuff causes your track to become covered with filmy gunk much more quickly. I don't recommend using it unless you like cleaning your track a lot.

And it's really kind of a gimick because smoke doesn't really scale down that well, plus you are always putting more drops in the stack cuz it only lasts a few minutes.

[waltersrails]

Well i have always likes athrean and bachmann spectrum. Kato and walthers are also good brands.

[modelalaska]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

My Kato and Atlas fleets (I have over 60 locos) all run, and run, and run with very few maintenance issues. If I have to take a loco to the workbench for maintenance, 9 out of 10 times it's a P2K loco.

Joe,
since you have so many Katos and Atlas', what type of gear lube do you use on them? My layout is in a cool area so a lighter oil or grease would be needed I think. What do they use at the factory?

Thanks.
Peter

[Anonymous]

OK.

For DCC Systems. North Coast Engineering, Lenze, and Digitrax are all highly reccomended. I have the Digitrax system myself and find it highly relaiable and very flexable. And user Freindly.

Good Locomotives You can't go wrong with the following.

Proto 2000/1000
Atlas
Stewart Hobbies (A Division of Bowser)
Bachmann Spectrum
Athearn
Walthers
recent production Rivorossi
and while I have no personal expereince I hear IHC comes highly reccomended.

For your Code 83 Track. While there are many suppliers of Flex Track. Atlas Turnouts are the easyest to install. Other brands have to have special complicated wiring That just make getting a reliable track arrangement that much more of a pain in the rear.

Most of the building kits that are out there are pretty good. And Woodland Scenics has you covered for scenery.

Might I reccomend you purchase the book HO Railroad From Set to Scenery and that will walk you through all the steps of building a model railroad on an 8' X8' layout.

[timthechef]

As far as finding others who model railroad try googleing for clubs in your area. Also you can meet people at the hobby store. Sometimes hobby stores have clinics that you can go to and learn about model railroading, you can meet people and learn a few things at the same time.

[selector]

LB, when the question is asked here, the vast majority (not exaggerating) of responses will tell you to forget smoke. It doesn't look at all like what you are imagining, it's all white, wispy, gummy, and covers your locomotive and tracks with a sticky deposit over time. Also, it smells. Finally, the heating element can often cause you grief with the surrounding plastic.

Honestly, you are strongly advised to give smoke a miss.

-Crandell

[MisterBeasley]

I've got a Lenz-100 DCC system. I chose it over some of the others because it comes with a 5-amp capacity, it supports functions up to 13 (important for sound) and it has a lifetime warrantee. I added a Lenz-90 throttle, which I really don't care for all that much. (I wanted to try an analog "dial" throttle, but I'd already gotten accustomed to the increment / decrement pushbuttons. The -90 also has a much clumsier user interface.)

Even though there is a modeller with every kind of DCC system here, there are very few complaints from any of them. They are all pretty good. The most common caution is "don't buy a non-expandable starter system." The Zephyr, incidentally, is fully expandable, and a lot of people have them and love them. One of the Digitrax offerings (I think it's the Empire Builder) has a low rating, because you don't get much over the Zephyr for its cost, and it's a lot less capable than the Super Chief. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong on this, OK?

All decoders (the part that goes in the locomotive) are compatable with all command systems. The thing that's typically not compatable is the throttle. You can't take a Lenz throttle and plug it into a Digitrax command system - it just won't work. But, you can take a locomotive with a Lenz decoder and run it on your Digitrax-equipped layout just fine, and vice versa.

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley
One of the Digitrax offerings (I think it's the Empire Builder) has a low rating, because you don't get much over the Zephyr for its cost, and it's a lot less capable than the Super Chief. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong on this, OK?

Operationally, What you loose with the Empire builder (DB150) are F9-f12 and programming track capability.. You're right though, for the cash, The Zephyer is defianately the better way to go, than the EB, in a starter system from Digitrax.. Gives all the features of the Chief (from what I've read on the digitrax site) except power capacity and since it's loconet based, Fully expandable. I wish it had been Available when I bought the chief, could have saved a couple hundred $$.

[Anonymous]

Well considering Chicago is in Illinois,just about every railroad went thru part of your state, depends on which part of state you're modeling,Wabash is a good road to model. Diffenately decide your particular road to model so you can buy more towards your desired road,save some money that way. If you have a desired road,check out their historical society,most have a web page and you'll get lots of useful info from them.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: I don't think any of my engines came with train sets

That doesn't mean they're not "train-set" grade. That term simply refers to the low-end models that are included in train-sets but thay could also be bought seperatly. Look at them and maybe somewhere on the under side there might be a brand name. Or take the shell off. Tell us what it looks like inside. That would help.

[Anonymous]

Both BNSF and NS didn't come into existance until the late 1980s or early 1990s.. So Now you've moved into the later era for road names.. Nothing Wrong with that though. If you keep it prototypical (realistic) you've ruled out a lot of rolling stock too.. Anything with a roof walk on it for instance.. Cabooses (or cabeese, you choose) are pretty much gone.. Though I know that NS runs one on a local out of Oakwood yard 2 blocks from my house (outside of Detroit). I think both BNSF and NS have websites you can go to and get some general info. Of course there are probably hundreds of other sites dedicated to the names as well.

this is somewhat off subject ,but the use of caboose's in the bnsf ,is not non existent .they are still used on near by yard to yard moves ,and for industrial set outs ,that require the trian to perform a long shoving movement .however due to union agreements caboose's need to meet certain standards ,working toilet ,heater /a/c .so in turn bnsf no longer has caboose's they have what is called a weigh car ,or a shove car .still looks like a caboose ,but the doors are welded shut (theese welds often break in cold weather hint hint )it no longer has to meet caboose standards ,because it is a shoove car .its all in the paper work .

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by shawnbobbitt

Both BNSF and NS didn't come into existance until the late 1980s or early 1990s.. So Now you've moved into the later era for road names.. Nothing Wrong with that though. If you keep it prototypical (realistic) you've ruled out a lot of rolling stock too.. Anything with a roof walk on it for instance.. Cabooses (or cabeese, you choose) are pretty much gone.. Though I know that NS runs one on a local out of Oakwood yard 2 blocks from my house (outside of Detroit). I think both BNSF and NS have websites you can go to and get some general info. Of course there are probably hundreds of other sites dedicated to the names as well.

this is somewhat off subject ,but the use of caboose's in the bnsf ,is not non existent .they are still used on near by yard to yard moves ,and for industrial set outs ,that require the trian to perform a long shoving movement .however due to union agreements caboose's need to meet certain standards ,working toilet ,heater /a/c .so in turn bnsf no longer has caboose's they have what is called a weigh car ,or a shove car .still looks like a caboose ,but the doors are welded shut (theese welds often break in cold weather hint hint )it no longer has to meet caboose standards ,because it is a shoove car .its all in the paper work .

That may very well be the case for this NS caboose as well.. From where I'm sitting (at a traffic light near the overpass), if it looks like a caboose, rolls like a caboose, it must Be a caboose.. It's in shape only, I'm not up on what the actual function is so it may very well Be a shove car.. It's the only one I've seen since the railroads stopped using them and it's pretty well beat up. Still has N&W reporting marks and probably still carries the original number.

[Anonymous]

To get aquanted with DCC I just went ahead and got on Digitrax website and printed off the owners manual of the starter set for the Super Empire Builder Advanced system. They have 5 so I printed out the middle one between the cheapest and most expensive to kind of judge what this one can do and get an idea if this is the one I'm looking for, or if this one is a big more than I need, or if i need a better one than this. I thought it nice they have the owners manuals you can save and print off to read and get a better idea what each can and can't do.

For those of you who do have a Digitrax system, what system do you have, how big is your layout appx, how many trains do you run on it at a time, does it also operate turnouts (about how many) and other accessories??

I'm still tying to judge what system I need, does it support sound, etc.

[simon1966]

LB, I am a Digitrax user and would not suggest you consider the SEB, while it is the middle system of the Digitrax range, it does not have the ability to read back CV's. The lower end Zephyr (what I have) can do this and it is a very capable system. I actually have a SEB as well, but just use the command station as an extra booster for my Zephyr.