Poor Athearn! I like them, but they keep missing the knocks of opportunity!

[siberianmo]

Lots of good stuff in this thread ...... Have no intentions of "bashing" any contributors or Athearn (of old). Now, Athearn of today - that's another story.

This "high end" stuff is absolutely suffocating many of us in the hobby. Why do we let it happen? I guess the answer is quite simple - as long as there are more willing to pay the prices than not .........

I'm happy for lots of things in life and the fact that I've purchased just about everything I've ever really wanted for my HO hobby makes me a lucky guy. In perspective, my hobby is just that - a diversion from the everyday life ...... with whatever 'disposable' cash I had going in that direction.

The overwhelming majority of my Athearn "blue boxes" are on display within my wall mounted cases for "retired" rolling stock. When I look at them, it takes no time at all to recollect the happy memories they represent - the RDC's with those absolutely ridiculous rubber band drives - but they still brought enjoyment to me - mostly while they were in the static mode!

My new Can-Am HO railroad (mainly passenger) is represented by Con-Cor, Walthers Trainline, Rivarossi, IHC and LifeLike Proto 1000's (RDC's). They provided that degree of accuracy I wanted for the prices I could afford, plus they had the roadnames I model. Athearn just didn't keep up ....... or care.

I think the mark of opportunity missed by Athearn is that they just decided to "chuck" the market represented by entry level and maybe "moderate" income folks. High end? Not for me - thanx!

See ya![tup]

[twhite]

Not being into diesels, I can't contribute much to the Athearn/Kato/P2k discussion, but since I do own a lot of Athearn freight cars, I CAN say that I've always had to put washers between the trucks and the bolsters to get their cars up to proper coupler height--but I've always considered this a minor problem, since I like the quality of their kits for the money. However, not too long ago I bought a 6-pack of their RTR Rio Grande hopper cars, and I ended up having to file DOWN the bolsters, because the couplers were too high for my other NMRA standard freight equipment. I like Athearn, I've been building Athearn kits since they were metal with six-zillion parts back in the '50's (still have a bunch of the metal cars and I run them frequently), but I do wi***hey'd come to some sort of standard. I do have the Athearn Genesis Rio Grande Challenger, and I'm extremely satisfied with its performance. But evidently there seems to be a big series of gaps in their diesel quality. I really hope they can smooth out their problems, because I'd like to see the company around for a while to come.
Tom

[Don Gibson]

Opinion:

Athearn dominated the market with inexpensive , easy to assemble kit's that pretty much set prices for the rest of the industry. Quality was fair. Dimension's went by the board and all diesel's got same motor, drive, and wheels. He made large production run's that kept prices low and current production in stock.

Fast forward - past Atlas/Kato - to LL's P2000's entry.

With a better motor, dimension's, CV lighting, added detail, - and using Athearn's (Chinese made) drive - they ended up with a better looking an running product, at nearly the same price. What's not to like? - The Challenge of a 'shake-the- box kit?

Athearn's RTR and Genesis line is their answer to PROTO2000, however is plagued by continuing QUALITY control problems - their SD70'S still have the same problems - after 3 years.

To quote a Tom Hank's: character: Opening a current Athearn engine is like opening a box of choclate's. "One never know's what what you're going to get."

[Anonymous]

I agree with Antonio Athern need to step it up.Athern are still good to work on ,but for my money I would buy Life -Like P2K Loco's over Athern.I have a few LLP2K that run flawless.His comments are very good in regard to Athern bb Loco's.

[simon1966]

With Athearn being out of the Walthers catalog, and missing from the shelves of stores that either can't or won't deal with Horizon. With e-tailers, and train show retailers stopping selling Athearn items due to the Horizon demand for a "bricks and mortar" store, the volume of Athearn sales must be going down?

I have several BB loco's and a lot of BB rolling stock. Having said that, I have not purhased a new BB loco in 2 years. I much prefer to spend my money on P2K, BLI and Atlas. The BB rolling stock fits a need for my layout. I want easy to make inexpensive kits for my young sons to work with. Antonio is spot on. Athearn is not competing very well for my hard earned hobby dollar.

[Anonymous]

As Lee Iacocca once said, "lead, follow or get out of the way". We don't know what management was thinking at Athearn before P2K and Bachman Spectrum hit the scene. The P2K (& P1K) got a good foot hold in the market by the time the Genesis line was introduced.

Antonio mentioned GM's failure to compete against Japanese automakers in the 80's. Look at automobile manufacturers today. Offering mostly high proformance, low fuel milage vehicles when gasoline is costing more per gallon as it ever was. But, unlike in the 80's, people still keep buying them. So what has changed? What did they learn from their marketing analysis? People will buy what they want regardless of cost or what they can actually afford.

Now that Athearn is a division of Horizon Hobbies all we can do is see what happens. So far it seems, by Horizon's actions, that the blue box and MDC Roundhouse kits are on the back burner and they're concentrating on new high end products and R-T-R models. Athearn not long ago added a N scale line and make some O scale stuff. That had to be a big investment. We don't know about their marketing plans for the future or how they interpet market research. We do know that they will only sell to brick & mortar stores, which will eliminate the demand for their products by people who sell at a discount. Could that lead to higher prices or discontinuation of a line that has fallen sales levels?

Yea, Athearn was the best bargin and a leader in HO scale trains, but now they have to work hard just to keep up with P2K and Broadway Limited. As long as $250 and up DCC and sound equiped locos are selling off the shelf faster than L.L. & B.L.I. can make them, Athearn will have to spend more of their resources on just keeping up.

[Anonymous]

I agree. I really want to regard Athearn as the best budget buy, but in my view they're not - Proto units can be picked up for not much more than a BB kit, Walthers and Bachmann have some specific units that are as good a runner as the best Athearn BB locos (and are equally good bases for a project) but are a lot cheaper. They were heading in the right direction with the most recent batch of BB SD40-2s and SD40T-2s - they fitted single-piece driveshafts to these which really calm down the growling - I have one of each and both are as quiet and smooth as Proto units. The SD40-2 also had decent coupler mountings - a box that takes Kadee #28s as a straight drop-in fit. Having to hunt down weird and wonderful couplers becomes a real pain with BB units after a while, as does having to drill and tap coupler pockets to use anything other than E Z Mates (still not managed to get hold of a Kadee drill/tap set). The motors are also very variable in build quality - it's obviously possible to get hold of good can motors cheaply (witness Bachmann's GP40s - the motors on these are very smooth reliable units straight from the box), so why Athearn haven't followed this route is beyond me. If they were to fix the coupler mountings (even better, upgrade everything in the same way as the SD40-2 - full pilots and coupler boxes that slide in after the chassis is installed), put better motors in, and the one-piece driveshafts from the latest locos (I know the RTR GP60M has them, suspect the other RTRs do as well) they would have a winning product. They have a superb business/marketing asset in their history and the long-lasting running of their locos, and could easily offer locos with these improvements for much the same as they currently charge. Sad to say, unless a specific loco comes up that I'm after (short list - EMD Demo SD45 and maybe an FP45 or two) I'm unlikely to buy any more Athearn BBs. Compared to the prices you can find superior competitors for they just don't have the budget appeal now. My first Athearn loco was an SD9 that I paid £30 for - I can now get Proto units for just a little more in the same store.

[brothaslide]

It would be interesting to know how many of the Athearn employees (especially in management) are model railroaders. I met the CEO for Athearn several years ago and I don't think he was a model railroader. I think if there were more model railroaders in Athearn Management, they would understand the market better and would be better able to respond to change. On the other hand, I think they are positioning themselves better in the market by offering the RTR line with DCC ready engines.

[AntonioFP45]

Ken

I think that was part of the deal with the buyout from Horizon.

To this day I've never seen a Horzon catalog! I've have the Walthers 2005 Catalog! Wow! I'm really enjoying it!

Athearn not being in the Walther's catalog is actually their loss as many modelers are not familiar with Horizon. I'm sure this is not Athearn's fault as Horizon is now the boss and Walther's is their competitor.

But I do agree that Athearn (and MDC) will survive.

[Anonymous]

I recently got their RTR AC4400-8CW and it is a sweet machine IMHO.

I think they will find a way to somehow survive in the MRR market - but they should NEVER have taken themselves out of the Walthers catalog . (BTW was that their decision or WKW's?)

[AntonioFP45]

Chuck,

Great point!

The Blue Boxes that I've elected to keep all need coupler mounting modifications in addition to re-motoring. Most of my Athearn freight cars also need to come up to meet the standards. This is why I stated before that I'm no longer buying Athearn BB freight cars. I will look at the newer RTR Athearn boxcars since they're supposedly closer to standard.

10-4!

[cwclark]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FundyNorthern

Everything seemed to change when Irv Athearn passed away and new management took over. I assume Irv was resistant to changes, upgrades, new products, etc.

Hard to teach an old dog new tricks!

Bob Boudreau

I totally agree with this statement..once management sets the way they do business..it's hard for them to change the way they've always done it..if the company fights fresh ideas things will never change...Athearn still doesn't play by the rules when it comes to NMRA standards..and i'm still grinding away at the Athearn locomotive bodies to get Kadee couplers to mount properly with the coupler gauge....Chuck

[Anonymous]

Everything seemed to change when Irv Athearn passed away and new management took over. I assume Irv was resistant to changes, upgrades, new products, etc.

Hard to teach an old dog new tricks!

Bob Boudreau

[AntonioFP45]

Hi Crew, Please don't turn this into a flame fest, but share your opinions. THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR ATHEARN BASHING!!

Hope you don't mind but these are my thoughts. Yet, I've heard others state similar views and wonder how you, my fellow modelers feel.

For years many of us, myself included purchased Athearn cars and locos. Tough and rugged, Blue Boxes still run on many layouts. However, since I was very loyal it saddened me that Athearn, as a company, has always seemed to be slow to act on opportunities as technology advanced and standards in model railroading were rising steadily.

For example: For years, Athearn produced the F7, SW9, GP9, SD9, SD45, Alco PA, and the GE U-Boats.

Then, Life Like, a company whose HO trains were "toys", explodes onto the scene with the Proto line.

Talk about smacking Athearn in the face!
Life Like-Proto produced nearly all of the same or similar units as Athearn, except with correctly scaled bodies, remarkable detailing, heavier weight, doors that opened, and realistic lighting! To add insult to injury, the drive was an Athearn clone!! This basically guaranteed, easy maintenance for most experienced Athearn owners. So simultaneously Proto units compete with the Athearn Genesis and Blue Box lines.

Even further, Life Like took advantage of their molds and tooling. Just like the prototypes, the P2K GP18 was easily transformed into the GP9, while the SD7 into the SD9. P2K will soon have a GE U-Boat on store shelves.

As a result, quite a few of the Athearn models have been discontinued. Look at Athearn's website. With few excepetions, Athearn BB locos are incredibly cheap on ebay. Those that pay too much for them haven't done their homework!

Top it off, rumors are floating that either Life Like or Kato are thinking of the F45 and FP45 within two years! Athearn, are you guys awake? Older units are still popular!

Am I the only one that wonders why didn't Athearn managers do this when they had the opprotunity, during the 90s?? They knew fully well of Kalmbach's marketing studies showing that modelers were becoming more demanding. IMHO, Athearn became complacent, just as GM did in the earty 1980s when they didn't view Japanese automakers as a real threat! Well, we saw what happened!

Was Athearn's managment leary of making the big financial investment that Life Like eventually made? Or was it that perhaps, Athearn could not afford it? Life Like did produce a wide variety of products and likely made decent profits. But then, Athearn cars and locos were selling like hot cakes, even during the 80s.

Athearn did introduce the Genesis line, but except for an F-unit, none of the above mentioned units were included.

Yes, there have been quality issues with some of the earlier P2k drives, but improvements were made and overall sales are still strong. Prices, in many cases, are lower than Athearn Genesis and RTR units. I've purchased new P2K units for the same price Blue Box locos are going for! And those P2K E units? Again, IMHO, an opportunity that should have been Athearn's.

Atlas and Kato are still better in quality, but I just find it so amazing that Life Like is a company that me and my friends, used to laugh at. LIfe Like, in a business sense, has taken Athearn's place on the category of "cheaper, affordable" HO locomotives.

I do hope Athearn will be around for the long run. They made the right step with the Amtrak California trains, and the SD45T-2 RTR unit. Though more expensive than many Protos, prices will likely come down. Hopefully the trend will continue.