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Poor Athearn! I like them, but they keep missing the knocks of opportunity!

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Posted by countershot on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 11:19 PM
Hmm...... I think that athearn will be around for some time. they may fail at one piont but i do not think that is going to happen any time soon. I have orderd the new genesis challengers and i have operated it at the hobby shop.[:D] WOW very good detail sound is great and it is super quiet.....when the sound is off.

You never know athearn my have something up there sleve that will blow us all away!

and have you seen there new sd45 and gp38 assome stuff.

no i think they will be here fo a long time.
http://community.webshots.com/album/337011280mnJplY http://photobucket.com/albums/c126/sd40-2/
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Posted by Paul3 on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:17 PM
4884bigboy wrote:
QUOTE: Paul, YOU ARE THE MAN! Couldn't have said it better myself.


Thanks. [:I]

AntonioFP45 wrote:
QUOTE: Let's see. You post very intelligent points, though sometimes you do come across as smug or confrontational. So be it. We're not Anti-Athearn here as most of the responders are or have been Athearn owners.


Smug? Confrontational? Ok, that's fair, because sometimes I'm both. I don't deny it. [;)] I do like to point out where other's have gone astray where I'm sure I'm in the right. I can't help it, it's one of my failings. So, I may be a jerk from time to time, but I like to think I'm a useful jerk when I'm doing it.

Oh, and I, too, am an Athearn owner. I have three PA's, 2 SW1200's, and a scattering of RDC's (none of which are running because I haven't install DCC in them). Plus a bunch of passenger cars and over 100 freight cars. When I was a kid, I had a ABBA set of F's. I also still have my father's Athearn items from the 1960's.

QUOTE: You're correct, I should have been more precise about the time period I was referring to which is from the 1980s to now.


That's why I try to be careful when I throw around the words like "never" and "always". It's too easy to refute with only one little example.

QUOTE: My timing way off? Good goobly! What are you talking about? I do remember well when the Proto 2000 models were released as I was at my LHS back then whenever a new model arrived. I never said that Proto released these models simultaneously. This was over a period of years. My comment here was generalized. so GENERALLY SPEAKING, Proto Geeps to Athearn Geep, P2K SDs to Ath.SD, Proto PA to Ath. PA, Proto Switchers to Ath.Switcher, Proto RDCs to Athearn RDC TODAY do compete strongly with Athearn Blue Boxes and/or RTR due to discounted prices from internet dealers and Ebay auctions have been .


The impression I got from your post was that Athearn had their "faces slapped" when P2K "exploded" onto the scene and caused Athearn to discontinue all their products that P2K also made...and that's simply not the case. P2K started in 1989 and didn't make anything that competed with Athearn until 1995. They hardly "explodes onto the scene"...they only made 3 models in 4 years. The first P2K to cause any excitement in my club was the E8's. If you wanted to compare these two company's offerings over a period of years, then using hyperbole like "Life Like...explodes onto the scene" isn't the way to go.

And please don't compare discount prices of P2K equipment with full MSRP for Athearn. That's not a fair comparison. If a formerly $70 P2K RDC is going for $20, how much is a formerly $25 Athearn RDC going for?

QUOTE: Let me see, You say I'm foolish for judging Genesis units based on what I saw from an SD75M. Paul, it's called FIRST IMPRESSIONS!


Yes. Judging all Genesis units based on ONE example just because it's the first one you've seen is foolish. If that was logical, then you'd never buy anything made by Life-Like because your first impression was probably a "pancake drive" loco before the BL-2 (which was certainly my first impression of LL). The Genesis F-units I've seen at my club are some of the best runners we have. They aren't as quiet as Kato, but then, nothing is.

QUOTE: Perhaps I'm unfair, but IN MY OPINION for $110 that Genesis should have been much quieter and smoother.


No, I agree. For that much cash, it ought to be fine out of the box. That it wasn't is a concern, certainly. But to condemn and forsake all Athearn for that one engine? That's unfair.

QUOTE: AND BY THE WAY.......he bought two more Genesis units. Guess what Paul.......THEY GROWL!


Why didn't you mention that above? It certainly would have strengthened your argument. It still doesn't change my opinion that basing all future purchases of one company's products on ONE loco is foolish. Three? A problem for sure, and if I were to try buy any SD70M's, I'd test run them first. But I still don't see how that effects your non-purchase of Genesis F-units since they use different drive pieces.

QUOTE: Hmmmmmmm..Well..........O.K, no one has disagreed with that point, myself included. BUT..........That point, while true, holds "little significance" since through discount dealers, and ebay it's easy to get P2Ks and P1Ks at the equivilent of Athearn Blue Box prices. While not the intent of the manufacturer, it's the current situation...........and we are benefiting from it. Or at least I am. By the way, I don't know what AFAIK stands for.


And what are the discount prices going for Athearn items? Let's compare apples to apples. (Oh, and "AFAIK" means: "As Far As I Know").

QUOTE: As for you question on the Cowls. Western roads? You're forgetting that Amtrak, WC, Chicago Metra also used cowls that are based on the F45/FP45 body. Currently a group of ex-Metra F40Cs are supposedly working on the KCS from HELM Leasing.


Sorry, but the Amtrak units and the Metra F40C's are not even close to an F45/FP45. The only thing they have in common is that they are EMD 6-axle cowl units, which isn't saying much. Personally, I think Kato's new F40PH's will sell extremely well as every commuter agency (just about) had at least some, not to mention the nationwide appeal of Amtrak. But F45/FP45's? Who had them?

QUOTE: Well, if few care then why are two companies suddenly talking about producing them? Especially with so many Athearn cowls floating on Ebay? So you don't think that if Kato or Life Like produce a limited run of cowls, they won't sell??? Please! If this is the case then why did Athearn produce the SD45T-2????? Only a few roads owned this giant! Yet, they are selling! So if Kato or Life Like do produce cowls in 2 years.....and they sell well, I'll be back here to post:: Well, Athearn missed the boat again!


My point was that there were other units out there that are more likely to sell better than an F45/FP45 model. I never said that they wouldn't sell, just that other engines would sell better, IMHO.

QUOTE: As I stated you give very intelligent points, but no need to be so defensive.


Don't you mean, "offensive"? How can I be "defensive" if it was my first post on the subject? [;)]

QUOTE: If you think that we're incorrect, point it out but there's no need to be so sarcastically nasty.


Some people read more into my posts than is there, just like I apparently did with you. It can't be helped. If you go into reading my post thinking I'm a sarcastic jerk, I'm going to sound that way to you even if I'm simply typing the telephone book. [:)]Let me put it this way...if you have to think about it, I'm not trying to be a jerk. Believe me, when I'm going to be a sarcastic jerk, there will be no mistake. [8D]

Don Gibson wrote:
QUOTE: ... AND YOU HAVE HAD 0 DEFECT'S WITH (NEW) ATHEARN's?


No need to shout. I haven't bought any new Athearn power since they haven't made any New Haven engines in quite some time. I have no need for anything they've made of late... However, I am the chairman of the Mechanical Dept. of my RR club, and as such I help a lot of guys who have loco problems. In my experience, I have not seen a lot of problems with newer Athearns. Sure, there have been some problems (new 2-8-2's and 4-6-6-4's), but compared to BLI or P2K, it's hardly anything at all.

bangert1 wrote:
QUOTE: I emailed Athearn last year when the Genesis Challenger came out, and they replied back to me on the Challenger sound issue.. I do not know of any action that they resulted from my comments on the sound unless we see an improvement in the new run. I hope they at least give a look at the comments that have been offered since the market seems to be changing daily.


Whatever they do, I sure hope they don't use MRC as their electrical supplier next time. That was a big mistake, IMHO.

Paul A. Cutler III
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Posted by DavidBriel on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 5:39 PM
Athearn is not interested in producing entirely new HO freight cars such as the ACL Woodchip Hopper and the SP&S 50' straight side flatcar
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 5:14 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Guys,

Great input! I went ahead and actually e-mailed this thread to Athearn. I do hope that they read it and use the views expressed here to help in future decisions.




Antonio

I emailed Athearn last year when the Genesis Challenger came out, and they replied back to me on the Challenger sound issue.. I do not know of any action that resulted from my comments on the sound unless we see an improvement in the new run. I hope they at least give a look at the comments that you have offered since the market seems to be changing daily.

I never dreamed I would purchase a sound equipped locomotive, since I had owned a PFM sound unit for almost thirty years. But starting last year, I ended up with almost every steam model BLI offered.

Athearn should consider sound for the diesel market also if they want to be competitive.
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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:56 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966

Antonio, there is a UN Ambasador post going begging......you would be great for it!Big Smile [:D]


Hmmmmmm.... Interesting job Simon!Wink [;)]

However, I wouldn't survive long as the U.N is too much of a toothless tiger these days! I admire their intentions, but I certainly won't look up to them.

Peace!Big Smile [:D]Cool [8D]Wink [;)]

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by Don Gibson on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:20 PM
Paul III

I would agree with your satement - except for a weighting factor

Out of assortment of approx. 54 Atlas, Stewart , Kato, Atlas / Kato, Atlas / Roco, Stewart / Kato's I've had ONE FT - (with a defective circut boad - replaced) and 4 Atlas / Roco's with non -NMRA coupler height's

COMPARED TO

An assortment of Genesis (15), RTR (5) - Total 20 - (all in the last 3 years)
2 motors went bad - (replaced)
1 Ditchlight burned out
1 Noisy motor
3 warped trucks

That's 7 Times!
plus ALL with non NMRA or KD coupler height's

In fairness, I din't buy any 'Snoot's'.
QUOTE: I have an Atlas H16-44 that buzzes at low speeds like a hornet, a P2K FB-1 that thunks like it's got a flat wheel, and a Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2 that sounds like a baseball card got caught in the spokes. My LHS sent back half his BLI GG-1's because they didn't work, and even Kato has pick up problems on certain engines. Every single manufactuer has QC problems


... AND YOU HAVE HAD 0 DEFECT'S WITH (NEW) ATHEARN's?
Don Gibson .............. ________ _______ I I__()____||__| ||||| I / I ((|__|----------| | |||||||||| I ______ I // o--O O O O-----o o OO-------OO ###########################
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Posted by simon1966 on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 2:38 PM
Antonio, there is a UN Ambasador post going begging......you would be great for it![:D]

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 2:33 PM
Hello Paul,

Let's see. You post very intelligent points, though sometimes you do come across as smug or confrontational. So be it. We're not Anti-Athearn here as most of the responders are or have been Athearn owners.

You're correct, I should have been more precise about the time period I was referring to which is from the 1980s to now. Yes, Athearn was very innovative back in the 60s and 70s. I remember the thrill I felt. when my mother bought me my first Athearn passenger car in 1976. My first powered Athearn was a U-Boat with no flywheels. Still far better than the Tyco F7 I was struggling with!

My timing way off? Good goobly! What are you talking about? I do remember well when the Proto 2000 models were released as I was at my LHS back then whenever a new model arrived. I never said that Proto released these models simultaneously. This was over a period of years. My comment here was generalized. so GENERALLY SPEAKING, Proto Geeps to Athearn Geep, P2K SDs to Ath.SD, Proto PA to Ath. PA, Proto Switchers to Ath.Switcher, Proto RDCs to Athearn RDC TODAY do compete strongly with Athearn Blue Boxes and/or RTR due to discounted prices from internet dealers and Ebay auctions have been .

Let me see, You say I'm foolish for judging Genesis units based on what I saw from an SD75M. Paul, it's called FIRST IMPRESSIONS! I know that "Lemons" pop up from everyone but my view is based on my having seen and heard locomotives perform. Perhaps I'm unfair, but IN MY OPINION for $110 that Genesis should have been much quieter and smoother. AND BY THE WAY.......he bought two more Genesis units. Guess what Paul.......THEY GROWL! I was very suprised after he ran them. My friend, who has been a die-hard Athearn man told me "Forget it, no more Athearns for me!" I had not even said a word to him, but I am going to suggest to him that he take off the shell and try lubricating the mechanism as it might quiet it a bit. He now has his sights set on two Proto SD60s. So right there on the spot Athearn lost two sales from a customer who doesn't mind paying full price, in cash$$$$ !! So I'm foolish?

Regarding the stats you're asking about. I stated that the market stats I referred to were older and not current. Check with Kalmbach. You say
QUOTE: Athearn makes the cheapest locos all the way around that are better than trainset locos
Hmmmmmmm..Well..........O.K, no one has disagreed with that point, myself included. BUT..........That point, while true, holds "little significance" since through discount dealers, and ebay it's easy to get P2Ks and P1Ks at the equivilent of Athearn Blue Box prices. While not the intent of the manufacturer, it's the current situation...........and we are benefiting from it. Or at least I am. By the way, I don't know what AFAIK stands for.

As for you question on the Cowls. Western roads? You're forgetting that Amtrak, WC,
Chicago Metra also used cowls that are based on the F45/FP45 body. Currently a group of ex-Metra F40Cs are supposedly working on the KCS from HELM Leasing. Your comment
QUOTE: How many people actually care....
Well, if few care then why are two companies suddenly talking about producing them? Especially with so many Athearn cowls floating on Ebay? So you don't think that if Kato or Life Like produce a limited run of cowls, they won't sell??? Please! If this is the case then why did Athearn produce the SD45T-2????? Only a few roads owned this giant! Yet, they are selling! So if Kato or Life Like do produce cowls in 2 years.....and they sell well, I'll be back here to post:: Well, Athearn missed the boat again!

As I stated you give very intelligent points, but no need to be so defensive.
QUOTE: Yeah right an Athearn should have scrapped their entire product line..........
If you think that we're incorrect, point it out but there's no need to be so sarcastically nasty.

Take care, Amigo!

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 2:29 PM
Paul, YOU ARE THE MAN! Couldn't have said it better myself.[^][^][^][bow][tup][wow]
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Posted by Paul3 on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:58 PM
Geez, in the time it took me to write my first post, there are more things to respond to...

AntonioFP45 wrote:
QUOTE: I also had problems with coupler box ears that were too small and wouldn't hold coupler boxes in place. I will no longer purchase Athearn BB freight cars.


If you can't get the covers to stay on, try drilling out the center shaft center for a 2-56 screw, then use the screw to hold the cover on. It is a kit, after all (I usually find that bending the ears inward a bit works 99% of the time).

QUOTE: However, from what some of you have stated Athearn is still not conforming to NMRA height standards on even their RTR cars. Guys, is this still the case? Please chime in as I would appreciate knowing.


Yes, Athearn has tried to fix the coupler height problem by producing trucks on RTR models that have a thicker truck bolster.

QUOTE: But as for hoppers and other types of cars I've turned to Bowser. Bowsers covered and open hoppers, IMHO, are comparable in price and do look better. But again, healthy competition in the "affordable" lines!


I have a few Boswer open hoppers...They won't stay on the track worth a darn without adding weight to them. The 2-bay covered hoppers are excellent models (I have at least 6) and track well (but then, Athearn doesn't make 2-bay covered hoppers...only MDC does in the "el cheapo" category).

cnwfan11 wrote:
QUOTE: In my years of growing up (now 35) with the Athearn line,I was very fascinated with everything Irv Athearn had to offer. Everything was in a kit form,which I had liked. I was always on the look-out for something new,that Athearn would put out.


I bet you had to wait a long time between "new" Athearn items, didn't you?

QUOTE: I particularly liked assembling the diesel locomotives and putting on the metal handrails,then going back to the hobby shop and buying extensive quantities of diesel parts from Details West and Details Associates.


For starters, that's great if Athearn made something you wanted. If they didn't, tough oats. For example, I model the NH, guess what Athearn made that fit NH locos? PA-1's, SW1200's and GP9's, all of which had some serious issues like too-wide hoods or giant coupler openings in the pilot. Only now with the release of FA's, DL109's, RS-3's, S-1's, etc., can one model the NH with anything close to realism.

Secondly, what's stopping you now from buying BB kits? They still make them, DW and DA are still in business, and so is Smokey Valley.

QUOTE: It "WAS" a great hobby to be in,.....................until now at present day and time.


Oh, puh-leeze.

QUOTE: When Irv Athearn passed on,I was afraid that Athearn would go out of business.


Hardly. Athearn was (and is) too big a player in this hobby to disappear. Someone would have come along and bought the company, just like it happened. It's not like Athearn was Front Range...

QUOTE: Many past years of having the Walthers catalog,showed that about 40% of what was supposed to be made was not even being produced...mostly parts and some locomotives and freight cars,that were seen in the catalog as being blue colored -"unknown if production will resume".


And? So? Athearn's been doing "batch" production for years, even when Irv himself was still around. When I first got into the hobby seriously in 1990, you could not find a 200ton Derrick or a Budd RDC to save your life. Then in the mid 1990's, they were everywhere again. Big deal.

QUOTE: Now...Athearn is a waste of my time.


Even the kits they still make?

QUOTE: Now we as a society have gotten quite lazy,among not having the time and patience to build kits. Now everything (except structures),is already built.


Lazy? Hey, maybe we want to actually run our trains rather then build them.

And not everything is pre-built. As I said, Athearn still makes kits. Heck, Accurail, Bowser, Branchline, etc., all make kits. So much for "everything".

QUOTE: it makes me sick to see model railroad equipment that is suppose to be "prototypical ",yet I find that some,if not all of the new stuff is'"way out of scale".


You are wrong in some, if not all, of your statement. Please provide examples of "way out of scale" equipment that is RTR.

QUOTE: Look at the heavy-duty flat cars with the loads on them,they're as big as the boxcars!!!,and this is suppose to "fit in" on the layouts?!!! Not mine it won't.


This is your only example? How do you know that nothing like that was ever shipped on US rails? There have been even bigger items, which is why the Schnabel Cars exist. And if these were transformers, they'd fit on a NH layout, with had a GE plant or two on the line. Heck, the New Haven alond had three different classes of depressed center flats for these kinds of loads.

QUOTE: And now Athearn is making semi trucks and freight cars with loads.Yes the stuff is nice to look at,but where the hell is the "modeling" part of these products for the hobby,and a "rare breed veteran" as myself to build?


Athearn's been making semi-trucks for decades (where have you been?). And the modeling these days is in the modeling of the operations of the railroad, not just the equipment of the railroad.

QUOTE: Athearn may think that they are on to something great,though in my book,its ruining the hobby in general.


Athearn's job is to make money. Saving the hobby isn't.

QUOTE: What is it,$10-15.00 dollars for a semi truck,when I can build on myself with "everything" on it,that Athearn doesn't put on it,and if i wanted to sell one of my trucks,it would be in a price brackett of $100.00. Yes that is a hefty price tag,but what you get is a semi that has MORE detail on it than what Athearn can't put on it,like a company,chains,antennas,a person in the driver seat,small operating bulbs for the lights,doors that open,a detailed engine that is also painted,and the air lines on the back of the truck. This IS a model.


Can someone please tell me what the problem is here? Athearn makes a $15 RTR truck that doesn't have all the detail on it that you would charge $100 for if you did put all the detail on it. Is there something stopping you from adding more detail to a RTR truck? I don't see a problem...

And how many people are going to add all that detail to an HO model truck? I mean, c'mon. That's out on the fringe... And because Athearn doesn't have opening cab doors on a semi truck, it's not a model?

QUOTE: Yes it is a shame that Horizon does not have a catalog,


They have a website. It's not very good (in fact, their online catalog is horrible), but they do have it.

QUOTE: The detail parts people who make the extras to put on the locomotives,the people who make the spare parts to sell,to replace parts that get broke,


And Athearn, Atlas, P2K, Kato, et al, should care about detail companies in what way?

QUOTE: not to mention the hobby shops that take the brunt of loosing great and frequent customers that come to buy kits


Instead, they are coming in to buy RTR.

QUOTE: I am one of many people who like to build kits,but what is the use when you have so much garbage on the market that is useless and unattractive to some modelers.


I guess you'll just have to scratchbuild... Can't get much more of a "kit" than that.

QUOTE: The locomotives now with detail parts on them and the plastic handrails.I'm sorry,but this stuff is garbage.


I admit that some of the plastic hand rails are not good (like on the P2K SW-units). However, there are far more great renditions in plastic hand rails than not. And detail parts on a model is "garbage"? Are you joking? See-through grills and fine detail is a bad thing?

QUOTE: You can have your DCC and what not in the locomotive,...........but is it worth it? Is a model railroad club going to change their layout to fit people who have DCC trains?


Yes, it's worth it. Yes, clubs all over the place are changing to DCC. In the Boston area alone, the following HO clubs have all changed to DCC from analog DC:

South Shore Model Railway Club (Hingham, MA)
North Shore Model Railroad Club (Wakefield, MA)
Worcester Model Railroaders
Providence Northern Railroad Club
Old Colony Railroad Club (Taunton, MA)

QUOTE: At the "Trainfest" here in Milwaukee, Wisconsin,Athearn is always there. I stopped and looked at their products,and the guy there asked me what I thought of the "new" line. I flat out told him that is was (censored).


Wow. There's a way to get a manufacturer to listen. If you say such a thing to just about anyone, you will be dismissed as a "crank" and your opinion will be summarily dismissed.

QUOTE: He was surprised by that statement,


I bet.

QUOTE: and I told him to bring back the kits,and put "nothing"extra on the locomotives,except the basics-horn,lenses,and the metal handrails. I also told him to go back to the company and make model train equipment the way Irv Athearn wanted and produced them.


If they did that, they'd probably be out of business by now. People aren't buying too many kits anymore, I don't know if you noticed. Going RTR has saved Athearn and kept them abreast of the competition.

Also, if they went back to the way Irv ran it, they'd only make 3 or 4 new models a decade. Is that what you want?

BTW, you were complaining earlier about "garbage" detail on new units...what do you think of Athearn metal handrails? You know, the ones without any detail, that are grossly out of scale, etc.?

QUOTE: I'm sure that Horizon is loosing alot of money,but who would want to buy something from them,when you cant even see what it looks like first,and to see if you actually want it,and to make sure that the number on that freight car is not the same as what you may have already.


How do you know that Horizon is losing money? And if I want to see what it looks like first and to double check car numbers, I look on the internet.

QUOTE: i'm sure that there are a few people who I may have peeved a bit,but if you ARE a modeler of trains,then what are YOU doing buying something that is already put together.


Yeah, you've "peeved" me. I'm buying something RTR because (shock, horror!) I want to run my trains. Silly me, I thought that's what we did in this hobby.

QUOTE: These are the reasons why I have stopped with model railroading.


You've stopped model railroading because of what other people are doing? Give me a break. If you've stopped, why are you on the "MODEL RAILROADER FORUM"???

QUOTE: There is not a *** thing that is "catching my eyes" to purchase.


Then why don't you scratchbuild something?

QUOTE: The keyword is "MODELER", and this is what we all should be. If you "don't have the time" to build a kit,then how can you be called a model railroader?


Gee, I don't know...maybe by actually running my railroad as model of the real thing, with schedules, timetables, waybills, etc.

QUOTE: The heading may say that Athearn is missing the opportunity,but what they are really missing is what us modelers really want,and they are not even listening to us.If they are I certainly have not seen it. ........think about it.


What modelers really want? No, I think they are dead on. You are out of the mainstream.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

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Posted by Paul3 on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:06 PM
AntonioFP45 wrote:
QUOTE: For years many of us, myself included purchased Athearn cars and locos. Tough and rugged, Blue Boxes still run on many layouts. However, since I was very loyal it saddened me that Athearn, as a company, has always seemed to be slow to act on opportunities as technology advanced and standards in model railroading were rising steadily.


Your knowledge is incomplete. Athearn has been on the leading edge of model railroading...they just aren't on the leading edge all the time. For example, wasn't Athearn the first to have all plastic kits instead of metal or wood? Didn't Athearn invent the center motor, twin gear tower drive that everyone uses today? Didn't Athearn create the most accurate HO Blomberg truck ever made in any material? Didn't Athearn release the first ever model of an Genesis AMD-103 model? I could go on, but I think I've shown that your statement that they have "always seemed to be slow to act" is incorrect. Have they always been the pioneer of model railroading? No, but then, no one has. Even Atlas was slow to adopt sound and release models with seperate grabs...

QUOTE: Then, Life Like, a company whose HO trains were "toys", explodes onto the scene with the Proto line.

Talk about smacking Athearn in the face!


It was a wake up call to all the manufacturers...Athearn, Atlas, Kato, Bachmann, Stewart, Bowser, etc.

QUOTE: Life Like-Proto produced nearly all of the same or similar units as Athearn, except with correctly scaled bodies, remarkable detailing, heavier weight, doors that opened, and realistic lighting! To add insult to injury, the drive was an Athearn clone!! This basically guaranteed, easy maintenance for most experienced Athearn owners. So simultaneously Proto units compete with the Athearn Genesis and Blue Box lines.


Your timing is way off. P2K released the BL-2 in 1989. Then they did the FA-2's in 1990-91, and the GP18's in 1992-1993. At this time, Irv Athearn was still running his company. And I don't know if you noticed, but Athearn wasn't making too many new models in the 1980's. Irv was a crafty guy who wanted to corner the market by making his products cheaper than anyone else's, and this involved not shelling out new money for new models.

Proto didn't release the same model that Athearn made until 1995 (SW1200 & SD7), 6 years after the P2K line was introduced. It was hardly a "slap in the face" for Athearn in that regard, and IIRC, Irv had passed on by that point (tho' I could be wrong). In any event, Athearn Genesis did not come along until after Irv died and after his family sold the company.

QUOTE: Top it off, rumors are floating that either Life Like or Kato are thinking of the F45 and FP45 within two years! Athearn, are you guys awake? Older units are still popular!


And how many people actually care about F45/FP45's compared to other models they could be making? Only western modelers would want them. Now compare that to their Genesis F-units, the RTR CF-7. and the newly tooled RS-3 coming this year...every region of the country wants these models. Do you really think that F45 sales would equal F's, RS-3's, or CF-7 sales?

QUOTE: Am I the only one that wonders why didn't Athearn managers do this when they had the opprotunity, during the 90s??


Because of Irv Athearn, that's why. He didn't want to spend the money. And then after he died, it took a while to find new owners. And even after the new owners took over, they then had to find the capital to invest in not only buying Athearn, but also buying new tooling. This doesn't happen overnight, but as soon as they did, they created the Genesis line.

gsetter wrote:
QUOTE: We don't know what management was thinking at Athearn before P2K and Bachman Spectrum hit the scene. The P2K (& P1K) got a good foot hold in the market by the time the Genesis line was introduced.


Genesis came out before P1K, IIRC.

Don Gibson wrote:
QUOTE: Athearn's RTR and Genesis line is their answer to PROTO2000, however is plagued by continuing QUALITY control problems - their SD70'S still have the same problems - after 3 years.

To quote a Tom Hank's: character: Opening a current Athearn engine is like opening a box of choclate's. "One never know's what what you're going to get."


The same could be said of any manufacturer. I have an Atlas H16-44 that buzzes at low speeds like a hornet, a P2K FB-1 that thunks like it's got a flat wheel, and a Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2 that sounds like a baseball card got caught in the spokes. My LHS sent back half his BLI GG-1's because they didn't work, and even Kato has pick up problems on certain engines. Every single manufactuer has QC problems.

siberianmo wrote:
QUOTE: This "high end" stuff is absolutely suffocating many of us in the hobby. Why do we let it happen? I guess the answer is quite simple - as long as there are more willing to pay the prices than not .........


"Suffocating"? What in the world are you talking about? How can the production of high quality models "suffocate" anyone? This hobby can be as expensive or as cheap as you want it to be.

QUOTE: I think the mark of opportunity missed by Athearn is that they just decided to "chuck" the market represented by entry level and maybe "moderate" income folks. High end? Not for me - thanx!


That's not true. If it was, why do they still, even today, make BB kits? Hmm?

davekelly wrote:
QUOTE: Imagine if instead of doing RTR they would reissue the Blue Box using the RRP shells they acquired. Athearn seems to be doing this with its RTR GP35. How about a Blue Box SD45 with the RPP shell? This would allow a somewhat real world test of what sells better or makes more business sense.


Remember, Athearn has their own sales numbers to base their decisions on. We don't.

AntonioFP45 wrote:
QUOTE: I had seriously considered buying a Genesis F unit. However that changed when my wife's cousin ran his brand new $100+ Genesis SD75M on his layout for me and it actually growled just as loudly as my Blue Box SD9. I said to myself, "Forget it! No more Athearn locos for me!"


Which is foolish, IMHO. Just because one SD70 growled, you won't buy any F-units? It's a completely different drive. Try actually test running a loco before you buy it, it's the only way to make sure you don't get a lemon (and all manufacturers make lemons from time to time).

QUOTE: The issue with so many of us, including me was that Athearn reached a "plateau" and stayed on it while LIfe Like shot past it and continued to climb. Again, didn't you notice that Life Like was making models similar in type to Athearn's BB line?


Athearn plateau-ed for most of the 1980's. I think they only released 3 or 4 diesels in all that time (GP38, GP40, GP50, & SD40). And LL wasn't the only one to "shoot past" Athearn. Atlas did it in the late 1970's/early 1980's with can motors.

And again, LL didn't make anything that Athearn made for 6 years...

QUOTE: My point of this thread is that what Life LIke did with the P2K line Athearn should have done years back. Plain and simple.


Yeah, right. Athearn should have scrapped their entire product line and jacked prices up to compete against... who? It made sense for LL to enter the market with something different because they had nothing to lose. If Athearn did it by themselves, they'd be competing against their own product.

QUOTE: But Athearn is no longer on top of the food chain as far as sales of affordable locomotives. Life Like rapidly closed the gap.


Do you have statistics to back that up? AFAIK, Athearn still makes the cheapest locos around that are better than train set locos.

jrbernier wrote:
QUOTE: What I do not really understand is the RTR treatment of the BB freight car kits. The paint jobs are great, but they still are basic 50/60's BB cars with fat roof walks and cast on grabs.


Not all of them. Have you seen the new RTR 85' TOFC cars? They have many improvements, including new trailer hitches, seperate grabs, new metal weights and bolsters (dropping the car height) and new switch coupler pockets.

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Posted by simon1966 on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 11:00 AM
cnwfan11

Thanks for expressing some of the sentiments that I feel. I am in no way a rivet counting modeller. But, I get an enormous degree of pleasure from the modelling aspect of the hobby. I own 1 RTR freight car and will never buy another. If something is sold as RTR, I should not have to take it apart to add weight to get it to NMRA standard. But what is lost by the move to RTR is the ability for Dads like me to sit at the work bench with the kids and create something. This is why I still buy Athearn BB freight car kits. A couple of hours spent at a table helping little engineers understand basic plans and directions, teaching them about the use of basic tools and glues. Helping them develop fine motor skills and pride in a job well done, is worth every penny of the $5 to $7 for a Blue box kit. My concern with Athearn, is that the BB kits are so simple that my boys are growing beyond them and so we will likely move on to Accurail kits. I think that Athearn could well learn from the plastic aircraft kit makers and make kits for different skill levels. This way new modellers could develop with the product line, rather than move beyond it, as so many see to have done.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:55 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by cnwfan11
Now we as a society have gotten quite lazy,among not having the time and patience to build kits. Now everything (except structures),is already built.


Guess you haven't seen the built up structures offered by Walthers and Design Preservation - all packaged in a bubble of clear plastic, ready to plop on the layout. Modeling it ain't! [V]

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:31 AM
In my years of growing up (now 35) with the Athearn line,I was very fascinated with everything Irv Athearn had to offer. Everything was in a kit form,which I had liked. I was always on the look-out for something new,that Athearn would put out. I particularly liked assembling the diesel locomotives and putting on the metal handrails,then going back to the hobby shop and buying extensive quantities of diesel parts from Details West and Details Associates. It "WAS" a great hobby to be in,.....................until now at present day and time.When Irv Athearn passed on,I was afraid that Athearn would go out of business. Many past years of having the Walthers catalog,showed that about 40% of what was supposed to be made was not even being produced...mostly parts and some locomotives and freight cars,that were seen in the catalog as being blue colored -"unknown if production will resume". Now...Athearn is a waste of my time. I have lived in many places across this U.S. of A,and have made alot of friends and knew of great places to get great model railroad equipment, WHEN it was in kit form. Now we as a society have gotten quite lazy,among not having the time and patience to build kits. Now everything (except structures),is already built. it makes me sick to see model railroad equipment that is suppose to be "prototypical ",yet I find that some,if not all of the new stuff is'"way out of scale". Look at the heavy-duty flat cars with the loads on them,they're as big as the boxcars!!!,and this is suppose to "fit in" on the layouts?!!! Not mine it won't. And now Athearn is making semi trucks and freight cars with loads.Yes the stuff is nice to look at,but where the hell is the "modeling" part of these products for the hobby,and a "rare breed veteran" as myself to build? Athearn may think that they are on to something great,though in my book,its ruining the hobby in general.What is it,$10-15.00 dollars for a semi truck,when I can build on myself with "everything" on it,that Athearn doesn't put on it,and if i wanted to sell one of my trucks,it would be in a price brackett of $100.00. Yes that is a hefty price tag,but what you get is a semi that has MORE detail on it than what Athearn can't put on it,like a company,chains,antennas,a person in the driver seat,small operating bulbs for the lights,doors that open,a detailed engine that is also painted,and the air lines on the back of the truck. This IS a model. Yes it is a shame that Horizon does not have a catalog,and that Walthers doesn't have the line in their catalog,but look at the other businesses that are hurting as well. The detail parts people who make the extras to put on the locomotives,the people who make the spare parts to sell,to replace parts that get broke,not to mention the hobby shops that take the brunt of loosing great and frequent customers that come to buy kits. I am one of many people who like to build kits,but what is the use when you have so much garbage on the market that is useless and unattractive to some modelers. The locomotives now with detail parts on them and the plastic handrails.I'm sorry,but this stuff is garbage. You can have your DCC and what not in the locomotive,...........but is it worth it? Is a model railroad club going to change their layout to fit people who have DCC trains? At the "Trainfest" here in Milwaukee, Wisconsin,Athearn is always there. I stopped and looked at their products,and the guy there asked me what I thought of the "new" line. I flat out told him that is was[censored]. He was surprised by that statement,and I told him to bring back the kits,and put "nothing"extra on the locomotives,except the basics-horn,lenses,and the metal handrails. I also told him to go back to the company and make model train equipment the way Irv Athearn wanted and produced them. I'm sure that Horizon is loosing alot of money,but who would want to buy something from them,when you cant even see what it looks like first,and to see if you actually want it,and to make sure that the number on that freight car is not the same as what you may have already.i'm sure that there are a few people who I may have peeved a bit,but if you ARE a modeler of trains,then what are YOU doing buying something that is already put together. These are the reasons why I have stopped with model railroading. There is not a *** thing that is "catching my eyes" to purchase. The keyword is "MODELER", and this is what we all should be. If you "don't have the time" to build a kit,then how can you be called a model railroader? The heading may say that Athearn is missing the opportunity,but what they are really missing is what us modelers really want,and they are not even listening to us.If they are I certainly have not seen it. ........think about it.[sigh]
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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:54 AM
Something else not mentioned: Freight cars.

I have a fleet of Athearn BB freight cars that I definetly will keep. But as many of you have stated on other threads, these often need modifying so that couplers would fit to the NMRA height recommendation correctly. I also had problems with coupler box ears that were too small and wouldn't hold coupler boxes in place. I will no longer purchase Athearn BB freight cars.

Athearn RTR freight cars: Now here I've seen differing opinions from many of us on the forum. Athearn did upgrade many of their cars to the RTR line. I've seen some of the cars and to me they look pretty decent for the price. However, I've read from some of you that most of the Athearn RTR cars are just fully assembled BBs with metal wheels. Now, on this issue I sort of "draw a blank" and am willing to purchase the specific ones that look good to me as I'm mainly searching for 1960's era Boxcars and Reefers.

However, from what some of you have stated Athearn is still not conforming to NMRA height standards on even their RTR cars. Guys, is this still the case? Please chime in as I would appreciate knowing. I own two "early run" RTR cars but I haven't gotten around to checking their coupler heights yet. So far I think that the Athearn RTRs look good, so I hope that Athearn did make the effort to correct the coupler height issue.

But as for hoppers and other types of cars I've turned to Bowser. Bowsers covered and open hoppers, IMHO, are comparable in price and do look better. But again, healthy competition in the "affordable" lines!

On the higher end, the IM and Atlas freight cars are beautiful, but I can't see spending $30 to $50 for each of their freight cars. In the future I will get a few of these fancier freight cars once I have my locomotive fleet the way I want it. But I admit I'll check Ebay first.

10-4!

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Posted by jrbernier on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:13 AM
FWIW - I suspect Athearn still is the largest manufacturer in the industry(at least of US prototype) by a wide margin - They must be doing something right!

Jim Bernier

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Posted by Todd McWilliam on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 7:51 AM
I think the new RTR locomotives are good, I have an SD60 and it is very detailed, I have several SD40-2's in the new tooling and they run and look great, no complaints about athearn.[:D][:D]
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Posted by simon1966 on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 6:48 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Originally posted by ericsp

I have to disagree with Proto 1000, Proto 2000, Kato, or Atlas being comparable in price to the Athearn Blue Box locomotives. The cheapest of these (excluding Athearn) I saw on Walthers's website was $70 (RDCs), with some diesels (excluding sound equiped) up to about $150. Athearn's most expensive Blue Box so far has been about $60. I know, you will say they can be found on sale, so can new Athearns.


Hello EricSP,

Great comments, as always.

Just one thing........Don't go to the Walthers website for prices, unless you're just using them as a reference!

Plenty of LHS's, discount web dealers and even Ebay have Athearns, P1Ks and P2Ks at very good prices! P1K RDCs have been going for $20+ dollars! I just received in the mail a BRAND NEW P2K E7 for $30.57 (plus $10 for shipping) that I got on Ebay from Model Trains Stuff!! I got another new P2K E7 at a train show for $39 total. My LHS recently had a blow out sale on Athearn and Life Life locos 30% to 50% off. I also got a P2K Special Edition SD45 for $53!! This unit normally sells for $110.



Antonio, to be fair, I think that both you and EricSP are correct on this. I have also purchased P2K E7's for under $40 at train shows and off e-bay. However, I do not beleive that this was the intent of LifeLike. I get the impression that LifeLike over produced the E7's as well as the GP20/30's. These 3 models in particular seem to be readily available in many roadnames a couple of years after they were produced. More recent P2K offerings seem to be in much shorter supply and not subject to such heavy discounting. The intended retail price for P2K is quite a bit higher than Athearn. The fact is, that these deals do exist, and frankly there is no comparison between a P2K E7 and an Athearn F unit!!

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 18, 2005 10:23 PM
Having purchased Athearn locomotives and cars for almost 25 years, I think I can honestly say that if it were not for their quality, affordability, and selection, the hobby would not have advanced in the way it has. I'm almost certain that modeling for me would have ended with the Tyco Christmas trainset! Not many warbonnet C636's running around the ATSF, and that first Athearn SD40-2 was like the REAL THING! The sheer desire to have handrails on it, took the hobby to another level. Not only was running the trains fun, turning a BB kit into a reasonable model taught a 13yr old valuable skills. It was something that could be taken apart and put back together and still run the same as it did when purchased(if not better!). Today, almost every model loco on the market has some variation of the same Athearn mechanism around back then! For me the only "opportunity missed" is thinking what it would have been like without Athearn!
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Posted by ericsp on Monday, April 18, 2005 10:21 PM
I have to disagree with Proto 1000, Proto 2000, Kato, or Atlas being comparable in price to the Athearn Blue Box locomotives. The cheapest of these (excluding Athearn) I saw on Walthers's website was $70 (RDCs), with some diesels (excluding sound equiped) up to about $150. Athearn's most expensive Blue Box so far has been about $60. I know, you will say they can be found on sale, so can new Athearns.

I did like the direction Athearn was going with its new SD40-2s and Pullman Standard 5344 cubic foot boxcar kits. Unfortunately, it appears that Athearn will not be producing any more new kits (just kits that have existed prior to the RTR and Genesis lines). When I have sent them e-mails asking about the kits they said they will offer them as long as there is demand. Unfortunately, they also said they have no plans to offer any of the new RTR stuff as kits.

It would have been interesting to see how Athearn would have done if they would have kept in the direction they were going in the SD40-2 and PS boxcar, espicially if they would have included grab irons with the locomotives and holes for the grab irons drilled part way through walls from the inside so that the modeller could choose to put the on or not.

Someone mentioned the higher end stuff suffocating the market. My biggest complaint with this is the underframe details. If the tracks are slightly below eye level, this is stuff that will not be seen, therefore I do not want to pay for that. Why not include interior detail on boxcars with doors that do not open? I wonder how long it will take until a company introduces a $75, HO scale boxcar with working plugs doors and how many people would buy it.

"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 18, 2005 9:34 PM
I think Athearn has actually inproved thier line.The SD50 was the best Athearn to date to me.All the current production blue box units have the newer shafts and motor.Very smooth running compared to a few years ago.I bought 3 sd40-2,a GP40-2 and a 38-2.Proto is equally nice.Genesis is nice but I think the MU hoses,cables,cut levers etc. should be included.All of the SD70 units I have run nice.Thier freight cars are ok but I prefer the Intermountain,LBF,Bowser and Atlas freight cars.Dan
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Posted by jrbernier on Monday, April 18, 2005 9:30 PM
All things said - the Athearn BB engines are still the best value as a starter engine. The thing that really turned off a lot of new modelers was the task of attaching those metal handrails! How many BB engines have you seen without handrails?
Athearn needs to catch up, and the Genesis line is a start. The RTR line of engines makes sense and is not as spendy. What I do not really understand is the RTR treatment of the BB freight car kits. The paint jobs are great, but they still are basic 50/60's BB cars with fat roof walks and cast on grabs. That said, I have bought 5-6 RTR cars over the past 2 years as I got them at a very good price(1/3rd to 1/2 off). Most of my cars are now medium to high end(Accurail, Kadee, P2K) with a lot of upgraded MDC/Walthers cars. But most of my engines are P2K(GP9/SD7), with some Kato/Genesis/Atlas/Walthers thrown in. I used to have a lot of BB engines, but I have upgraded starting about 1992 and sold off most of my fat body Athearn over the years.
As far as cost - I bought a Genesis F9A for about $75. Considering that it has a super drive, and great detail/paint, It really is a good value. I have an Undec Atlas FP7 and will have to replace the pilot, handrails, add detail and paint it. I already have $50 in it and will still have to paint it.

Jim

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, April 18, 2005 8:57 PM
Jsoderq,

No bubbles are being burst. It was acknowledged above that LL P2K "early units" had mechanical flaws. No doubt. No dispute that Athearn has produced some decent products over the past several decades.

The issue with so many of us, including me was that Athearn reached a "plateau" and stayed on it while LIfe Like shot past it and continued to climb. Again, didn't you notice that Life Like was making models similar in type to Athearn's BB line?

Did Athearn miss what mark? They made favorite locos for many of us, including me. Of course, some of those favorite locos were hood units, which by today's standards, are out of proportion housing a reliable but noisy mechanism.

One more point you make. Parts: It took me a couple of years before being able to get boxcar and reefer underframes from Athearn. As soon as LHS's got Athearn parts, they were cleaned out as Athearn was no longer producing large quantiies of parts as they had in the past. This, though was understandable. So far, I've had no problem obtaining parts from LIfe Like.

My point of this thread is that what Life LIke did with the P2K line Athearn should have done years back. Plain and simple.

Your statement: I bet that Athearn sells more product than other manufacturers combined". Did you get those from statistics? Last I checked two years back, Athearn sales had actually dropped.

But fortunately Athearn is by no means down and out. The SD45T-2 is proof of that. But Athearn is no longer on top of the food chain as far as sales of affordable locomotives. Life Like rapidly closed the gap.

But so far, no one here is Anti-Athearn. If anything most of us hope that Athearn continues to move forward as competition is great for the hobby...........and beneficial for us.

Peace!

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, April 18, 2005 8:24 PM
Guys,

Great input! I went ahead and actually e-mailed this thread to Athearn. I do hope that they read it and use the views expressed here to help in future decisions.

Metro,

You and I are in a similar situation. After reading your response, I started to realize that my fleet of Proto diesel units is growing quickly in size while I've actually shrunken my Athearn Blue Box locomotive fleet. The only BBs I've purchased in the past year were three FP45s. This was only because no one else makes decent versions of them in plastic......yet.

I also purchased another SCL U33B, but now a friend introduced me to a technique in which it's possible to take an Atlas SCL U36C, razor saw the body at the right point and turn it into a U33/U36B using a BLI or P2K chassis.

So now, as far as locomotives I'll be concentrating primarily on P2K as the Geeps and E units I want are made by them. For F7s, I'll go Stewart. I sold my BB F7s a few years back.

I had seriously considered buying a Genesis F unit. However that changed when my wife's cousin ran his brand new $100+ Genesis SD75M on his layout for me and it actually growled just as loudly as my Blue Box SD9. I said to myself, "Forget it! No more Athearn locos for me!"

But sincerely, I hope Athearn continues to improve their RTR and Genesis line as well as introduce new models. Hopefully Athearn will still listen to customer input. Wink [;)]

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Posted by jsoderq on Monday, April 18, 2005 6:35 PM
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but some don't have a clue as to what is really happening in the market. While LL proto is pretty good stuff, the early sales were so bad that they flooded the market and had to cut WAY back on production runs which now results in stuff sometimes being hard to get. Why do you suppose Kato does so few American models - no it is not because they are a japanese company, it is because they understand the market and know exactly how much product the market can stand.Look at the fire sale from BLI because they made more than the market will bear and have cut back on their runs.
Athearn makes money which supports a staff of American employees as well as getting products made in the orient. Lifelike's staff is a handful of people (hence the "you can't get parts when the guy is in the orient").
Athearn has been around as a manufacturer for a very long time so they must be doing something right. I would bet that they sell more product than all other manufacturers combined. So- did they miss the mark (not making your favorite loco -unlike the DL-109) or have they just not made as many errors?
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Posted by METRO on Monday, April 18, 2005 5:12 PM
You know a funny thing happened on my line this year...

I just finished replacing my Athearn RDCs with Life Likes that were compatible with my DCC, and knocking my re-worked Model Power RS-2s with Life Likes, and replacing my BB SD-9s with Life Likes and it hit me:

I now have more Life Likes than any other brand! When did this happen??

I'd always had a solid majority of Athearn products, almost all superdetailed BB kits. But I've been slowly replacing them over the years with better models. The first to go were my F7s replaced with the silky smooth Kato-driven Stewarts. Then my PA-1 was replaced with a Proto, and my U36C got relegated to back-up power by an Atlas model.

As I look at my workbench now, they are mostly the same prototypes, but there's a world of difference between an Athearn BB F7 and a Stewart/Kato model.

I agree Athearn dropped the ball, for one thing they had my brand loyalty and now, well I can honestly say the only Athearn anything I've bought reciently were the Bombardier Bi-Levels, not any locomotives.

I believe this trend can still be reversed, but the game is getting a bit more cut-throat then it has been before. Atlas, LL, BLI and Stewart all seem to be gunning for Athearn these days. Take a look at the current release schedule and you'll see what I'm talking about.

While I agree big blue isn't going anywhere for a while, it's anyones' game now, and they have to step up and play with the new big boys if they want to stay in it in a major role.

~METRO
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 18, 2005 4:56 PM
I just got one of the new Cotton Belt SD45T2's and its a work of art, smooth, quiet. Lots of great detail. Much better than the old tunnel motors on the BB era. I still love the BB locos and car and buy them at shows. The older units didnt have a bad motor, but miss balenced flywheels, sloppy driveline connections and poor electrical contact. I can get an older athearn to run nice a smooth with a set of timewell flywheels, NWSL drive shafts and taking the trucks apart and cleaning all the flash off of the gears with a hobby knife. The whole GP38,40,50,60-2 line was scale in hood width and just ready to detail, ran well and were very affordable, espicaly to a teenager short on money at that time. Now many years later I still prefer the old BB locomotives, you just cannot kill them. I hope horizon doesnt shoot themselves in the foot cutting off walthers and dealers that just go to shows. Shows and e-hobby shops are the current thing, the days of just the good old fashoned local hobby shop are unfortunatly over I think. Cheers Mike
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Posted by aloco on Monday, April 18, 2005 4:01 PM
The Life-Like SW9 is NOTHING like Athearn's SW7. The drive in the LIfe-Like GM switchers is closer to Kato than anything else, and the shell is by far more prototypical.

Athearn is now in the process of upgrading their line to compete with Life-Like and others. The SD40 series, F7 A&B units, and GP35 have all been retooled and look and run better than the old blue box units. The down side to all the upgrading is that the locomotives are not going to sell for blue box prices.
  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Bottom Left Corner, USA
  • 3,420 posts
Posted by dharmon on Monday, April 18, 2005 3:42 PM
I think Athearn is moving in the right direction with it's latest releases, having come around, with change of ownership to addressing the desires of modellers and demands of competetion, that for years wasn't so much of a factor, as they conered the market.

Antonio...I think as far as Genesis goes, it was a way to start a new line to test the waters so to speak of how traditional Athearn modellers would react to upscale Athearn...which was a shock price wise to the Athearn crowd. They needed to bring out new products that didn't have competetion for the same units, while similtaneously not competing against their own products....F unit not withstanding..but there are so many Fs out there anyway.

The RPP shells are finding thier way into market, as the basis for the new tooling that has been going on. When they acquired RPP, they kept the molds and sold off the bulk of the inventory to PPW/A-Line. The fat boy BB locos are going to be a thing of the past, as better and as inexpensive models of the same units are being produced by competitors. So unless they have a RPP mold to base the same unit, such as the GP35 off of, it probably will go away. BB kits will be a case by case, secondary to the RTR and Genesis because that is what the market seems to want, but unfortunately prices are not going to be the old BB prices anymore. That doesn't neccessarily mean that they won't retool a FP45 in the future..that'd be great.....but only after they do an SDP40F and a GP40X (from the RPP tooling).

Don't get me wrong I love Athearn BB for durability and their "putty value"...that is being able to make just about anything you want from them. But I think that Athearn is changing for the better. I lament the eventual demise of the BB, and still comb the swap meets looking for BB bargains to build up, but their long term health is going to be better, more expensive RTR models.

Dan

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Rhode Island
  • 2,216 posts
Posted by davekelly on Monday, April 18, 2005 3:12 PM
Imagine if instead of doing RTR they would reissue the Blue Box using the RRP shells they acquired. Athearn seems to be doing this with its RTR GP35. How about a Blue Box SD45 with the RPP shell? This would allow a somewhat real world test of what sells better or makes more business sense.
If you ain't having fun, you're not doing it right and if you are having fun, don't let anyone tell you you're doing it wrong.

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