QUOTE: Paul, YOU ARE THE MAN! Couldn't have said it better myself.
QUOTE: Let's see. You post very intelligent points, though sometimes you do come across as smug or confrontational. So be it. We're not Anti-Athearn here as most of the responders are or have been Athearn owners.
QUOTE: You're correct, I should have been more precise about the time period I was referring to which is from the 1980s to now.
QUOTE: My timing way off? Good goobly! What are you talking about? I do remember well when the Proto 2000 models were released as I was at my LHS back then whenever a new model arrived. I never said that Proto released these models simultaneously. This was over a period of years. My comment here was generalized. so GENERALLY SPEAKING, Proto Geeps to Athearn Geep, P2K SDs to Ath.SD, Proto PA to Ath. PA, Proto Switchers to Ath.Switcher, Proto RDCs to Athearn RDC TODAY do compete strongly with Athearn Blue Boxes and/or RTR due to discounted prices from internet dealers and Ebay auctions have been .
QUOTE: Let me see, You say I'm foolish for judging Genesis units based on what I saw from an SD75M. Paul, it's called FIRST IMPRESSIONS!
QUOTE: Perhaps I'm unfair, but IN MY OPINION for $110 that Genesis should have been much quieter and smoother.
QUOTE: AND BY THE WAY.......he bought two more Genesis units. Guess what Paul.......THEY GROWL!
QUOTE: Hmmmmmmm..Well..........O.K, no one has disagreed with that point, myself included. BUT..........That point, while true, holds "little significance" since through discount dealers, and ebay it's easy to get P2Ks and P1Ks at the equivilent of Athearn Blue Box prices. While not the intent of the manufacturer, it's the current situation...........and we are benefiting from it. Or at least I am. By the way, I don't know what AFAIK stands for.
QUOTE: As for you question on the Cowls. Western roads? You're forgetting that Amtrak, WC, Chicago Metra also used cowls that are based on the F45/FP45 body. Currently a group of ex-Metra F40Cs are supposedly working on the KCS from HELM Leasing.
QUOTE: Well, if few care then why are two companies suddenly talking about producing them? Especially with so many Athearn cowls floating on Ebay? So you don't think that if Kato or Life Like produce a limited run of cowls, they won't sell??? Please! If this is the case then why did Athearn produce the SD45T-2????? Only a few roads owned this giant! Yet, they are selling! So if Kato or Life Like do produce cowls in 2 years.....and they sell well, I'll be back here to post:: Well, Athearn missed the boat again!
QUOTE: As I stated you give very intelligent points, but no need to be so defensive.
QUOTE: If you think that we're incorrect, point it out but there's no need to be so sarcastically nasty.
QUOTE: ... AND YOU HAVE HAD 0 DEFECT'S WITH (NEW) ATHEARN's?
QUOTE: I emailed Athearn last year when the Genesis Challenger came out, and they replied back to me on the Challenger sound issue.. I do not know of any action that they resulted from my comments on the sound unless we see an improvement in the new run. I hope they at least give a look at the comments that have been offered since the market seems to be changing daily.
QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45 Guys, Great input! I went ahead and actually e-mailed this thread to Athearn. I do hope that they read it and use the views expressed here to help in future decisions.
QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966Antonio, there is a UN Ambasador post going begging......you would be great for it!
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
QUOTE: I have an Atlas H16-44 that buzzes at low speeds like a hornet, a P2K FB-1 that thunks like it's got a flat wheel, and a Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2 that sounds like a baseball card got caught in the spokes. My LHS sent back half his BLI GG-1's because they didn't work, and even Kato has pick up problems on certain engines. Every single manufactuer has QC problems
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
QUOTE: Athearn makes the cheapest locos all the way around that are better than trainset locos
QUOTE: How many people actually care....
QUOTE: Yeah right an Athearn should have scrapped their entire product line..........
QUOTE: I also had problems with coupler box ears that were too small and wouldn't hold coupler boxes in place. I will no longer purchase Athearn BB freight cars.
QUOTE: However, from what some of you have stated Athearn is still not conforming to NMRA height standards on even their RTR cars. Guys, is this still the case? Please chime in as I would appreciate knowing.
QUOTE: But as for hoppers and other types of cars I've turned to Bowser. Bowsers covered and open hoppers, IMHO, are comparable in price and do look better. But again, healthy competition in the "affordable" lines!
QUOTE: In my years of growing up (now 35) with the Athearn line,I was very fascinated with everything Irv Athearn had to offer. Everything was in a kit form,which I had liked. I was always on the look-out for something new,that Athearn would put out.
QUOTE: I particularly liked assembling the diesel locomotives and putting on the metal handrails,then going back to the hobby shop and buying extensive quantities of diesel parts from Details West and Details Associates.
QUOTE: It "WAS" a great hobby to be in,.....................until now at present day and time.
QUOTE: When Irv Athearn passed on,I was afraid that Athearn would go out of business.
QUOTE: Many past years of having the Walthers catalog,showed that about 40% of what was supposed to be made was not even being produced...mostly parts and some locomotives and freight cars,that were seen in the catalog as being blue colored -"unknown if production will resume".
QUOTE: Now...Athearn is a waste of my time.
QUOTE: Now we as a society have gotten quite lazy,among not having the time and patience to build kits. Now everything (except structures),is already built.
QUOTE: it makes me sick to see model railroad equipment that is suppose to be "prototypical ",yet I find that some,if not all of the new stuff is'"way out of scale".
QUOTE: Look at the heavy-duty flat cars with the loads on them,they're as big as the boxcars!!!,and this is suppose to "fit in" on the layouts?!!! Not mine it won't.
QUOTE: And now Athearn is making semi trucks and freight cars with loads.Yes the stuff is nice to look at,but where the hell is the "modeling" part of these products for the hobby,and a "rare breed veteran" as myself to build?
QUOTE: Athearn may think that they are on to something great,though in my book,its ruining the hobby in general.
QUOTE: What is it,$10-15.00 dollars for a semi truck,when I can build on myself with "everything" on it,that Athearn doesn't put on it,and if i wanted to sell one of my trucks,it would be in a price brackett of $100.00. Yes that is a hefty price tag,but what you get is a semi that has MORE detail on it than what Athearn can't put on it,like a company,chains,antennas,a person in the driver seat,small operating bulbs for the lights,doors that open,a detailed engine that is also painted,and the air lines on the back of the truck. This IS a model.
QUOTE: Yes it is a shame that Horizon does not have a catalog,
QUOTE: The detail parts people who make the extras to put on the locomotives,the people who make the spare parts to sell,to replace parts that get broke,
QUOTE: not to mention the hobby shops that take the brunt of loosing great and frequent customers that come to buy kits
QUOTE: I am one of many people who like to build kits,but what is the use when you have so much garbage on the market that is useless and unattractive to some modelers.
QUOTE: The locomotives now with detail parts on them and the plastic handrails.I'm sorry,but this stuff is garbage.
QUOTE: You can have your DCC and what not in the locomotive,...........but is it worth it? Is a model railroad club going to change their layout to fit people who have DCC trains?
QUOTE: At the "Trainfest" here in Milwaukee, Wisconsin,Athearn is always there. I stopped and looked at their products,and the guy there asked me what I thought of the "new" line. I flat out told him that is was (censored).
QUOTE: He was surprised by that statement,
QUOTE: and I told him to bring back the kits,and put "nothing"extra on the locomotives,except the basics-horn,lenses,and the metal handrails. I also told him to go back to the company and make model train equipment the way Irv Athearn wanted and produced them.
QUOTE: I'm sure that Horizon is loosing alot of money,but who would want to buy something from them,when you cant even see what it looks like first,and to see if you actually want it,and to make sure that the number on that freight car is not the same as what you may have already.
QUOTE: i'm sure that there are a few people who I may have peeved a bit,but if you ARE a modeler of trains,then what are YOU doing buying something that is already put together.
QUOTE: These are the reasons why I have stopped with model railroading.
QUOTE: There is not a *** thing that is "catching my eyes" to purchase.
QUOTE: The keyword is "MODELER", and this is what we all should be. If you "don't have the time" to build a kit,then how can you be called a model railroader?
QUOTE: The heading may say that Athearn is missing the opportunity,but what they are really missing is what us modelers really want,and they are not even listening to us.If they are I certainly have not seen it. ........think about it.
QUOTE: For years many of us, myself included purchased Athearn cars and locos. Tough and rugged, Blue Boxes still run on many layouts. However, since I was very loyal it saddened me that Athearn, as a company, has always seemed to be slow to act on opportunities as technology advanced and standards in model railroading were rising steadily.
QUOTE: Then, Life Like, a company whose HO trains were "toys", explodes onto the scene with the Proto line. Talk about smacking Athearn in the face!
QUOTE: Life Like-Proto produced nearly all of the same or similar units as Athearn, except with correctly scaled bodies, remarkable detailing, heavier weight, doors that opened, and realistic lighting! To add insult to injury, the drive was an Athearn clone!! This basically guaranteed, easy maintenance for most experienced Athearn owners. So simultaneously Proto units compete with the Athearn Genesis and Blue Box lines.
QUOTE: Top it off, rumors are floating that either Life Like or Kato are thinking of the F45 and FP45 within two years! Athearn, are you guys awake? Older units are still popular!
QUOTE: Am I the only one that wonders why didn't Athearn managers do this when they had the opprotunity, during the 90s??
QUOTE: We don't know what management was thinking at Athearn before P2K and Bachman Spectrum hit the scene. The P2K (& P1K) got a good foot hold in the market by the time the Genesis line was introduced.
QUOTE: Athearn's RTR and Genesis line is their answer to PROTO2000, however is plagued by continuing QUALITY control problems - their SD70'S still have the same problems - after 3 years. To quote a Tom Hank's: character: Opening a current Athearn engine is like opening a box of choclate's. "One never know's what what you're going to get."
QUOTE: This "high end" stuff is absolutely suffocating many of us in the hobby. Why do we let it happen? I guess the answer is quite simple - as long as there are more willing to pay the prices than not .........
QUOTE: I think the mark of opportunity missed by Athearn is that they just decided to "chuck" the market represented by entry level and maybe "moderate" income folks. High end? Not for me - thanx!
QUOTE: Imagine if instead of doing RTR they would reissue the Blue Box using the RRP shells they acquired. Athearn seems to be doing this with its RTR GP35. How about a Blue Box SD45 with the RPP shell? This would allow a somewhat real world test of what sells better or makes more business sense.
QUOTE: I had seriously considered buying a Genesis F unit. However that changed when my wife's cousin ran his brand new $100+ Genesis SD75M on his layout for me and it actually growled just as loudly as my Blue Box SD9. I said to myself, "Forget it! No more Athearn locos for me!"
QUOTE: The issue with so many of us, including me was that Athearn reached a "plateau" and stayed on it while LIfe Like shot past it and continued to climb. Again, didn't you notice that Life Like was making models similar in type to Athearn's BB line?
QUOTE: My point of this thread is that what Life LIke did with the P2K line Athearn should have done years back. Plain and simple.
QUOTE: But Athearn is no longer on top of the food chain as far as sales of affordable locomotives. Life Like rapidly closed the gap.
QUOTE: What I do not really understand is the RTR treatment of the BB freight car kits. The paint jobs are great, but they still are basic 50/60's BB cars with fat roof walks and cast on grabs.
QUOTE: Originally posted by cnwfan11 Now we as a society have gotten quite lazy,among not having the time and patience to build kits. Now everything (except structures),is already built.
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45 Originally posted by ericsp I have to disagree with Proto 1000, Proto 2000, Kato, or Atlas being comparable in price to the Athearn Blue Box locomotives. The cheapest of these (excluding Athearn) I saw on Walthers's website was $70 (RDCs), with some diesels (excluding sound equiped) up to about $150. Athearn's most expensive Blue Box so far has been about $60. I know, you will say they can be found on sale, so can new Athearns. Hello EricSP, Great comments, as always. Just one thing........Don't go to the Walthers website for prices, unless you're just using them as a reference! Plenty of LHS's, discount web dealers and even Ebay have Athearns, P1Ks and P2Ks at very good prices! P1K RDCs have been going for $20+ dollars! I just received in the mail a BRAND NEW P2K E7 for $30.57 (plus $10 for shipping) that I got on Ebay from Model Trains Stuff!! I got another new P2K E7 at a train show for $39 total. My LHS recently had a blow out sale on Athearn and Life Life locos 30% to 50% off. I also got a P2K Special Edition SD45 for $53!! This unit normally sells for $110. Antonio, to be fair, I think that both you and EricSP are correct on this. I have also purchased P2K E7's for under $40 at train shows and off e-bay. However, I do not beleive that this was the intent of LifeLike. I get the impression that LifeLike over produced the E7's as well as the GP20/30's. These 3 models in particular seem to be readily available in many roadnames a couple of years after they were produced. More recent P2K offerings seem to be in much shorter supply and not subject to such heavy discounting. The intended retail price for P2K is quite a bit higher than Athearn. The fact is, that these deals do exist, and frankly there is no comparison between a P2K E7 and an Athearn F unit!! Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 18, 2005 10:23 PM Having purchased Athearn locomotives and cars for almost 25 years, I think I can honestly say that if it were not for their quality, affordability, and selection, the hobby would not have advanced in the way it has. I'm almost certain that modeling for me would have ended with the Tyco Christmas trainset! Not many warbonnet C636's running around the ATSF, and that first Athearn SD40-2 was like the REAL THING! The sheer desire to have handrails on it, took the hobby to another level. Not only was running the trains fun, turning a BB kit into a reasonable model taught a 13yr old valuable skills. It was something that could be taken apart and put back together and still run the same as it did when purchased(if not better!). Today, almost every model loco on the market has some variation of the same Athearn mechanism around back then! For me the only "opportunity missed" is thinking what it would have been like without Athearn! Reply Edit ericsp Member sinceMay 2015 5,134 posts Posted by ericsp on Monday, April 18, 2005 10:21 PM I have to disagree with Proto 1000, Proto 2000, Kato, or Atlas being comparable in price to the Athearn Blue Box locomotives. The cheapest of these (excluding Athearn) I saw on Walthers's website was $70 (RDCs), with some diesels (excluding sound equiped) up to about $150. Athearn's most expensive Blue Box so far has been about $60. I know, you will say they can be found on sale, so can new Athearns. I did like the direction Athearn was going with its new SD40-2s and Pullman Standard 5344 cubic foot boxcar kits. Unfortunately, it appears that Athearn will not be producing any more new kits (just kits that have existed prior to the RTR and Genesis lines). When I have sent them e-mails asking about the kits they said they will offer them as long as there is demand. Unfortunately, they also said they have no plans to offer any of the new RTR stuff as kits. It would have been interesting to see how Athearn would have done if they would have kept in the direction they were going in the SD40-2 and PS boxcar, espicially if they would have included grab irons with the locomotives and holes for the grab irons drilled part way through walls from the inside so that the modeller could choose to put the on or not. Someone mentioned the higher end stuff suffocating the market. My biggest complaint with this is the underframe details. If the tracks are slightly below eye level, this is stuff that will not be seen, therefore I do not want to pay for that. Why not include interior detail on boxcars with doors that do not open? I wonder how long it will take until a company introduces a $75, HO scale boxcar with working plugs doors and how many people would buy it. "No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld) Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 18, 2005 9:34 PM I think Athearn has actually inproved thier line.The SD50 was the best Athearn to date to me.All the current production blue box units have the newer shafts and motor.Very smooth running compared to a few years ago.I bought 3 sd40-2,a GP40-2 and a 38-2.Proto is equally nice.Genesis is nice but I think the MU hoses,cables,cut levers etc. should be included.All of the SD70 units I have run nice.Thier freight cars are ok but I prefer the Intermountain,LBF,Bowser and Atlas freight cars.Dan Reply Edit jrbernier Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: SE Minnesota 6,847 posts Posted by jrbernier on Monday, April 18, 2005 9:30 PM All things said - the Athearn BB engines are still the best value as a starter engine. The thing that really turned off a lot of new modelers was the task of attaching those metal handrails! How many BB engines have you seen without handrails? Athearn needs to catch up, and the Genesis line is a start. The RTR line of engines makes sense and is not as spendy. What I do not really understand is the RTR treatment of the BB freight car kits. The paint jobs are great, but they still are basic 50/60's BB cars with fat roof walks and cast on grabs. That said, I have bought 5-6 RTR cars over the past 2 years as I got them at a very good price(1/3rd to 1/2 off). Most of my cars are now medium to high end(Accurail, Kadee, P2K) with a lot of upgraded MDC/Walthers cars. But most of my engines are P2K(GP9/SD7), with some Kato/Genesis/Atlas/Walthers thrown in. I used to have a lot of BB engines, but I have upgraded starting about 1992 and sold off most of my fat body Athearn over the years. As far as cost - I bought a Genesis F9A for about $75. Considering that it has a super drive, and great detail/paint, It really is a good value. I have an Undec Atlas FP7 and will have to replace the pilot, handrails, add detail and paint it. I already have $50 in it and will still have to paint it. Jim Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin Reply AntonioFP45 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Good ol' USA 9,642 posts Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, April 18, 2005 8:57 PM Jsoderq, No bubbles are being burst. It was acknowledged above that LL P2K "early units" had mechanical flaws. No doubt. No dispute that Athearn has produced some decent products over the past several decades. The issue with so many of us, including me was that Athearn reached a "plateau" and stayed on it while LIfe Like shot past it and continued to climb. Again, didn't you notice that Life Like was making models similar in type to Athearn's BB line? Did Athearn miss what mark? They made favorite locos for many of us, including me. Of course, some of those favorite locos were hood units, which by today's standards, are out of proportion housing a reliable but noisy mechanism. One more point you make. Parts: It took me a couple of years before being able to get boxcar and reefer underframes from Athearn. As soon as LHS's got Athearn parts, they were cleaned out as Athearn was no longer producing large quantiies of parts as they had in the past. This, though was understandable. So far, I've had no problem obtaining parts from LIfe Like. My point of this thread is that what Life LIke did with the P2K line Athearn should have done years back. Plain and simple. Your statement: I bet that Athearn sells more product than other manufacturers combined". Did you get those from statistics? Last I checked two years back, Athearn sales had actually dropped. But fortunately Athearn is by no means down and out. The SD45T-2 is proof of that. But Athearn is no longer on top of the food chain as far as sales of affordable locomotives. Life Like rapidly closed the gap. But so far, no one here is Anti-Athearn. If anything most of us hope that Athearn continues to move forward as competition is great for the hobby...........and beneficial for us. Peace! "I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!" Reply AntonioFP45 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Good ol' USA 9,642 posts Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, April 18, 2005 8:24 PM Guys,Great input! I went ahead and actually e-mailed this thread to Athearn. I do hope that they read it and use the views expressed here to help in future decisions.Metro,You and I are in a similar situation. After reading your response, I started to realize that my fleet of Proto diesel units is growing quickly in size while I've actually shrunken my Athearn Blue Box locomotive fleet. The only BBs I've purchased in the past year were three FP45s. This was only because no one else makes decent versions of them in plastic......yet. I also purchased another SCL U33B, but now a friend introduced me to a technique in which it's possible to take an Atlas SCL U36C, razor saw the body at the right point and turn it into a U33/U36B using a BLI or P2K chassis.So now, as far as locomotives I'll be concentrating primarily on P2K as the Geeps and E units I want are made by them. For F7s, I'll go Stewart. I sold my BB F7s a few years back.I had seriously considered buying a Genesis F unit. However that changed when my wife's cousin ran his brand new $100+ Genesis SD75M on his layout for me and it actually growled just as loudly as my Blue Box SD9. I said to myself, "Forget it! No more Athearn locos for me!"But sincerely, I hope Athearn continues to improve their RTR and Genesis line as well as introduce new models. Hopefully Athearn will still listen to customer input. "I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!" Reply jsoderq Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: Saginaw River 948 posts Posted by jsoderq on Monday, April 18, 2005 6:35 PM Not to burst anyone's bubble, but some don't have a clue as to what is really happening in the market. While LL proto is pretty good stuff, the early sales were so bad that they flooded the market and had to cut WAY back on production runs which now results in stuff sometimes being hard to get. Why do you suppose Kato does so few American models - no it is not because they are a japanese company, it is because they understand the market and know exactly how much product the market can stand.Look at the fire sale from BLI because they made more than the market will bear and have cut back on their runs. Athearn makes money which supports a staff of American employees as well as getting products made in the orient. Lifelike's staff is a handful of people (hence the "you can't get parts when the guy is in the orient"). Athearn has been around as a manufacturer for a very long time so they must be doing something right. I would bet that they sell more product than all other manufacturers combined. So- did they miss the mark (not making your favorite loco -unlike the DL-109) or have they just not made as many errors? Reply METRO Member sinceOctober 2003 From: Milwaukee & Toronto 929 posts Posted by METRO on Monday, April 18, 2005 5:12 PM You know a funny thing happened on my line this year... I just finished replacing my Athearn RDCs with Life Likes that were compatible with my DCC, and knocking my re-worked Model Power RS-2s with Life Likes, and replacing my BB SD-9s with Life Likes and it hit me: I now have more Life Likes than any other brand! When did this happen?? I'd always had a solid majority of Athearn products, almost all superdetailed BB kits. But I've been slowly replacing them over the years with better models. The first to go were my F7s replaced with the silky smooth Kato-driven Stewarts. Then my PA-1 was replaced with a Proto, and my U36C got relegated to back-up power by an Atlas model. As I look at my workbench now, they are mostly the same prototypes, but there's a world of difference between an Athearn BB F7 and a Stewart/Kato model. I agree Athearn dropped the ball, for one thing they had my brand loyalty and now, well I can honestly say the only Athearn anything I've bought reciently were the Bombardier Bi-Levels, not any locomotives. I believe this trend can still be reversed, but the game is getting a bit more cut-throat then it has been before. Atlas, LL, BLI and Stewart all seem to be gunning for Athearn these days. Take a look at the current release schedule and you'll see what I'm talking about. While I agree big blue isn't going anywhere for a while, it's anyones' game now, and they have to step up and play with the new big boys if they want to stay in it in a major role. ~METRO Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 18, 2005 4:56 PM I just got one of the new Cotton Belt SD45T2's and its a work of art, smooth, quiet. Lots of great detail. Much better than the old tunnel motors on the BB era. I still love the BB locos and car and buy them at shows. The older units didnt have a bad motor, but miss balenced flywheels, sloppy driveline connections and poor electrical contact. I can get an older athearn to run nice a smooth with a set of timewell flywheels, NWSL drive shafts and taking the trucks apart and cleaning all the flash off of the gears with a hobby knife. The whole GP38,40,50,60-2 line was scale in hood width and just ready to detail, ran well and were very affordable, espicaly to a teenager short on money at that time. Now many years later I still prefer the old BB locomotives, you just cannot kill them. I hope horizon doesnt shoot themselves in the foot cutting off walthers and dealers that just go to shows. Shows and e-hobby shops are the current thing, the days of just the good old fashoned local hobby shop are unfortunatly over I think. Cheers Mike Reply Edit aloco Member sinceFebruary 2004 933 posts Posted by aloco on Monday, April 18, 2005 4:01 PM The Life-Like SW9 is NOTHING like Athearn's SW7. The drive in the LIfe-Like GM switchers is closer to Kato than anything else, and the shell is by far more prototypical. Athearn is now in the process of upgrading their line to compete with Life-Like and others. The SD40 series, F7 A&B units, and GP35 have all been retooled and look and run better than the old blue box units. The down side to all the upgrading is that the locomotives are not going to sell for blue box prices. Reply dharmon Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Bottom Left Corner, USA 3,420 posts Posted by dharmon on Monday, April 18, 2005 3:42 PM I think Athearn is moving in the right direction with it's latest releases, having come around, with change of ownership to addressing the desires of modellers and demands of competetion, that for years wasn't so much of a factor, as they conered the market. Antonio...I think as far as Genesis goes, it was a way to start a new line to test the waters so to speak of how traditional Athearn modellers would react to upscale Athearn...which was a shock price wise to the Athearn crowd. They needed to bring out new products that didn't have competetion for the same units, while similtaneously not competing against their own products....F unit not withstanding..but there are so many Fs out there anyway. The RPP shells are finding thier way into market, as the basis for the new tooling that has been going on. When they acquired RPP, they kept the molds and sold off the bulk of the inventory to PPW/A-Line. The fat boy BB locos are going to be a thing of the past, as better and as inexpensive models of the same units are being produced by competitors. So unless they have a RPP mold to base the same unit, such as the GP35 off of, it probably will go away. BB kits will be a case by case, secondary to the RTR and Genesis because that is what the market seems to want, but unfortunately prices are not going to be the old BB prices anymore. That doesn't neccessarily mean that they won't retool a FP45 in the future..that'd be great.....but only after they do an SDP40F and a GP40X (from the RPP tooling). Don't get me wrong I love Athearn BB for durability and their "putty value"...that is being able to make just about anything you want from them. But I think that Athearn is changing for the better. I lament the eventual demise of the BB, and still comb the swap meets looking for BB bargains to build up, but their long term health is going to be better, more expensive RTR models. Dan Reply davekelly Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Rhode Island 2,216 posts Posted by davekelly on Monday, April 18, 2005 3:12 PM Imagine if instead of doing RTR they would reissue the Blue Box using the RRP shells they acquired. Athearn seems to be doing this with its RTR GP35. How about a Blue Box SD45 with the RPP shell? This would allow a somewhat real world test of what sells better or makes more business sense. If you ain't having fun, you're not doing it right and if you are having fun, don't let anyone tell you you're doing it wrong. Reply 123 Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! 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Originally posted by ericsp I have to disagree with Proto 1000, Proto 2000, Kato, or Atlas being comparable in price to the Athearn Blue Box locomotives. The cheapest of these (excluding Athearn) I saw on Walthers's website was $70 (RDCs), with some diesels (excluding sound equiped) up to about $150. Athearn's most expensive Blue Box so far has been about $60. I know, you will say they can be found on sale, so can new Athearns. Hello EricSP, Great comments, as always. Just one thing........Don't go to the Walthers website for prices, unless you're just using them as a reference! Plenty of LHS's, discount web dealers and even Ebay have Athearns, P1Ks and P2Ks at very good prices! P1K RDCs have been going for $20+ dollars! I just received in the mail a BRAND NEW P2K E7 for $30.57 (plus $10 for shipping) that I got on Ebay from Model Trains Stuff!! I got another new P2K E7 at a train show for $39 total. My LHS recently had a blow out sale on Athearn and Life Life locos 30% to 50% off. I also got a P2K Special Edition SD45 for $53!! This unit normally sells for $110.
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