Metal wheel sets. How much do they help?

[Anonymous]

I have heard that metal wheels have less "rolling resistance", therefore making it easier for your locomotives to pull a train than the plastic wheels that come on most rail cars. Is this true? If so, how much does it REALLY help? Thanks for replys, Kevin

[Anonymous]

Kevin when it comes to running a good layout you will also need good cars. The wheels are very important and anyone here will tell you that you should have metal wheels and they make quite a big difference. All the newer cars come with metal wheels because they are better. They do roll much better and I reccommend that you always put on metal wheels to the cars that do not have them. I converted all my cars that I bought without metal wheels to the metal ones. I get Life like metal wheels for $4 a pack. You gotta have your layout hooked up dawg. So do you your thing

[ac4400fan]

never herd of that ,,but what i know is that the plasic wheels conduct alot of rail build up,therefor! i would recomendmhaving the metal wheels,and have alot of less ,clean up every month,

ps,plasic wheels get rid of em ,,just to help , :)))))

[Anonymous]

Does someone make metal wheels for N? I've been modeling for some time now and have never seen them on the market.

[twhite]

I'm in the process of replacing all of my cars with metal wheels, and the difference in pulling power of some of my locomotives is VERY noticeable, especially some of my brass locos that were never 'great' pullers. I have a couple of Custom Brass Rio Grande mountains that are very handsome, but not the best pullers I've ever had, but with metal wheels on the rolling stock, it seems to have improved their performance by about 50%. I used to have to double-head them to get twenty cars over the 2-2.4% grades on my line, now each one of them can handle twenty metal-wheeled cars with ease. And it's certainly improved the time I used to spend cleaning the rails. Besides, those shiny treads look really COOL!
Tom [^][^]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alturasandlonepine

Does someone make metal wheels for N? I've been modeling for some time now and have never seen them on the market.

Doesn't Micro-Trains make 100 packs of metal, small flange wheels? Or did i just imagine that.

HO people: Beware of LifeLikes metal wheels. They are grime magnets! Go with Intermountain or Kaydee.

[Anonymous]

BE careful!
Not all HO metal wheel axles are the same length. That's due to different truck manufacturers
that the model car manufacturer uses.

[Anonymous]

i have converted most of my fleet over to metal wheels since the club i belong to allows only metal to run on the club layouts....i have seen a dramatic improvement of performance AND appearance.....they weather nice...and sound great.....i switched over to proto 2000 wheels.....a little pricey for about eight bucks for only three cars worth....but i did not have to "gauge" any when installing.....now....what to do with all the plastic ones....hmm....maybe a new industry that makes axles?"?

[tomwatkins]

Metal wheels make a very big difference. They do have less rolling resistance than plastic, and they don't deposit "gunk" on the rails, reducing the need to clean the railheads. If the wheelsets or your locomotive wheels have blackening on the treads, removing it and polishing the treads also helps reduce the need for cleaning the rails.
Have Fun,
Tom Watkins

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BoRockhard

QUOTE: Originally posted by alturasandlonepine

Does someone make metal wheels for N? I've been modeling for some time now and have never seen them on the market.

HO people: Beware of LifeLikes metal wheels. They are grime magnets! Go with Intermountain or Kaydee.

BoRockhard,

I've switched most of my freight car fleet over to P2K wheels. I have a test track shelf and not a layout yet but what you say is interesting.

Have you used P2K metal wheels and had a grime problem?

I am going to be buying IM wheels in the future to try them out.

Appreciate your thoughts.

[SpaceMouse]

Is it the wheels or axels that make the main difference in rolling? Is the main reason for the metals wheels keeping the track and wheels clean or there a significant improvement in friction (or is it the click-click click?)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomotive3

BE careful!
Not all HO metal wheel axles are the same length. That's due to different truck manufacturers
that the model car manufacturer uses.

[#ditto]

There are differences in axle speifications between manufacturers. One brand will work with other brands of trucks but may be looser or tighter in another brand. Sometimes you are better off replacing the truck / wheel assembly. For example, the Proto 2000 truck / wheel assembly is extreamly free rolling right out of the box.

For free rolling wheels on any kind of truck, check and clean out the journal box where the axle seats. There may be casting flash. You can use a new #11 Exato blade to clean off the flash, however Micro Mark sells a special tool called a "Truck Tuner". And, if you don't already have one, buy a NMRA Standards Gauge to check the wheel gauge (They cost $3.50 if you are a N.M.R.A. member and buy it from them). N.M.R.A. Standards gauge is available in O, HO, & N scales. Sometimes the wheels are not in gauge out of the box.
Another tip for free rolling trucks is to use a powdered graphite lubricant on the journal box / axle point. Kaydee sells "Greas-em"

[BRAKIE]

Metal wheels helps put the weight where it belongs on the rail head and keeps your freight car wheels and track cleaner..
The club I belong to uses P2K metal wheels.We find that these are good solid wheels that can be had at great discounts and very free rolling without any side affects. We do not find them to be dirt magnets under our rather hash operating conditions-perhaps that's because our cars sees a lot of real miles in a month's time far more then your adverage home or club layout usually sees...We need free rolling trucks due to our operating hump yard...
However,most members are now beginning to favor the Athearn metal wheels that come on the RTR cars-not the Genesis line.These are very free rolling and seems to be better then the P2K wheel sets.[:D][tup]
I use the Athearn truck with the P2K wheel set but,now finding I am favoring the Athearn's trucks over my combination.
On my home layout 80% of my cars have metal wheels..The 20% that still has plastic wheels are Athearn trucks.These are also very free rolling..One of these years I *might* get around to changing these wheels out to metal wheels but,I am in no great rush as I still like plastic wheels.[8D][:D]

[Anonymous]

BoRockhard, I can't agree with your assement of LLP2K metal wheel sets! Upon what are you basing your opinion? In this case, metal is metal! Of all the metal wheels out there LLP2K's are the most realistic, with their silver treads, lettering and a choice of chilled or flat backed. Money wise they are the best bang for the buck. I have more than 75 cars with these wheels on them and my track and treads are clean!

In rebuttle to your point, all I have ever heard on this topic is that Kadee's wheels are crap magnets! I have said this, as this an un-substantaited rumor I heard from one person!

Kevinbety, Metal wheels are better, my opinion is that all the manufacturers metal wheels are good. There are some differances in the length of the avels in comparison to the truck frames that can be an issue. ReBOXX manufacturer's wheel sets with differant axel lengths if this is needed. Maybe they roll better, if the do, this is a plus. From a stand point of keeping the track clean alone, they are the way to go.

[RoyalOaker]

I have been switching my cars over to metal wheels.

It's funny, With plastic wheels, when I left a car on a spur it would stay there. Now, with the metal wheels, the cars just role down hill, and I didn't even know that I had a hill for them to role down. [:I]

I had to re-level my table to prevent this.[:)]


I love the click, click sound also.

I am not sure about the cleaning part yet, because I have only been using them for a few weeks.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RoyalOaker

I have been switching my cars over to metal wheels.

It's funny, With plastic wheels, when I left a car on a spur it would stay there. Now, with the metal wheels, the cars just role down hill, and I didn't even know that I had a hill for them to role down. [:I]

I had to re-level my table to prevent this.[:)]


I love the click, click sound also.

I am not sure about the cleaning part yet, because I have only been using them for a few weeks.

I noticed the big difference being with the axels. When I changed to metal axels the cars started rolling. I did not notice any difference between platic wheels with metal axels and metal wheels with metal axels. My MDC old time kits came with metal axels and plastic wheels.

[Anonymous]

OK, you have all talked me into converting to metal wheels. My rolling stock is mostly Athearn "blue box" kits. Will the PK2 wheels fit those stock Athearn trucks, or will the trucks need to be replaced also? Thanks again, Kevin

[RoyalOaker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevnbety

OK, you have all talked me into converting to metal wheels. My rolling stock is mostly Athearn "blue box" kits. Will the PK2 wheels fit those stock Athearn trucks, or will the trucks need to be replaced also? Thanks again, Kevin

I am using P2K 33" for my Athearn BB and everything is running fine.

[Anonymous]

I have found the LLP2K wheels to plop into the Athearn trucks fairly well. Go for it!

Spacemouse, When I ran cars with plastic wheels, after a few months, the wheels actually built up a layer of garp. Eventually the garp got so thick the wheels would derail from lack of flanges. I just looked at 10-15 cras with LLP2K wheels on them and saw no garp on them what so ever. This is after several years of running with no maintenance of the wheel treads. I have clearly convinced mysel that LLP2K is as good as any metal wheel set on the market!

[BentnoseWillie]

I generally use P2k wheels and am quite satisfied with them, though I do use Kadee periodically (usually when I go to get wheels and the shop is out of P2k). I also have been experimenting with Intermountain's code 88 "semi-scale" wheels, which are closer to correct scale tread width but compatible with standard HO track.

In cases where the above brands don't work because of an axle that's too short or too long, I use Reboxx wheels. They only come in 33" diameter, but are available in various axle lengths to fit different trucks.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DeSchane

Spacemouse, When I ran cars with plastic wheels, after a few months, the wheels actually built up a layer of garp. Eventually the garp got so thick the wheels would derail from lack of flanges. I just looked at 10-15 cras with LLP2K wheels on them and saw no garp on them what so ever. This is after several years of running with no maintenance of the wheel treads. I have clearly convinced mysel that LLP2K is as good as any metal wheel set on the market!

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevnbety

OK, you have all talked me into converting to metal wheels. My rolling stock is mostly Athearn "blue box" kits. Will the PK2 wheels fit those stock Athearn trucks, or will the trucks need to be replaced also? Thanks again, Kevin

I fitted 45+ Boxcars with P2K wheels no problems on a recent running session. I continue to ruthlessly convert the rest of my plstic wheels into metal. I do have two boxcars with plastic wheels on the test track right now but they are not considered part of the fleet.

[Anonymous]

I find them to quite good. They also add weight, which is a plus in some cases.

Alvie.

[Anonymous]

Just wanted to add this link to an article from Model Railroader about Using the Right Wheelsets

[AntonioFP45]

Guys,

For those of you that buy Athearn, be aware of early RTR cars. Some of you may remember my post back in Dec or January.

I bought a couple of "Early Run" Athearn RTR cars at a train show that came with plastic wheels. The P2K 33" wheels, to my shock, wouldn't fit. According to Don Gibson, some of the wheels sets and trucks on these cars were the plastic Europeon type that you find on the Rivorossi cars, which are non-NMRA standard. I looked at the wheel faces and saw that familiar "convex" shape.

Fortunately Athearn did the smart thing and started using metal wheels on later runs of the RTR freight cars.[:D]

I winded up purchasing P2K truck sets for these cars to solve the problem.

I did learn a valuable lesson that when purchasing anything at a train show, a lot of the items may have been sitting in store shelves for 10 years or more, so it's a good idea to check over an item thoroughly before paying for it. Let the buyer beware!

[BRAKIE]

AntonioFP45,Also beware that some of the early RTR Athearn cars with metal wheels had the semi scale .088" flange.The cars now have the normal 110s(RP25s).I do not know how this came about but kinda wish Athearn kept the .088s.Of course these small semi scale flanges call for near perfect track work as I found out with one bad track joint I missed when I was laying track...[}:)][:D] Of course these cars showed me the error of my ways.[;)]

[Anonymous]

Hi Kev,

I am considered a newbie to the hobby (6 months theoretical and 3 months hands-on) and I have built a bunch of Accurail kits, and they all came with plastic wheel sets. One day I purchased an Athearn Caboose kit which had metal wheels. I could not believe how smootly it ran in comparison to the plastic wheels![:0]
The difference was measurable. I mentioned this to my LHS guy and he said this was to be expected. He also told me that plastic wheels will contribute to a build up of dirt on the rails as well, and recommended that I replace all my wheels with metal wheel sets. I was sceptical of a money grab and delayed my decision about two weeks. Then i went ahead and did it and I have to say I don't regret the decision. My engines can pull more cars with metal wheels than plastic wheels. So my recommendation...go ahead and make the switch.

Trevor

[AntonioFP45]

Way to go, Trevor!

You've "indirectly" mentioned a side benefit that metal wheels offer: Less of a strain on locomotives! About 4 months ago I did a "break in" run with my P2K SCL GP9 on a friends layout. That one little Geep pulled a "chunker" of a train, especially considering that all of the freight cars had additional metal weights inside to bring them up to NMRA standards. But, each freight car also had P2K wheels. Smooth cruising all the way!

IMHO, had the cars still had their stock plastic wheels, I'm sure that the powerpack would have been feeling "warmer" to the touch as I pushed the Geep to full throttle several times!

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomotive3

BE careful!
Not all HO metal wheel axles are the same length. That's due to different truck manufacturers

TRUE. Basically breaks into 2 categories: NMRA and NEM axles. One brand may be looser or tighter in another brand.

FACT VS FICTION

QUOTE: Metal wheels roll better right out of the box.

ALL wheels roll freely out of the box - try it. The friction comes when you add the sideframes.

QUOTE: For free rolling wheels on any kind of truck, check and clean out the journal box where the axle seats. There may be casting flash... Micro Mark sells a special tool called a "Truck Tune"

Flash is where two moulds meet - such as the outer edges. I have never found any inside a concave surface, however if the fit is tight, enlarging them reduces pressure.

QUOTE: Another tip for free rolling trucks is to use a powdered graphite lubricant on the journal box / axle point. Kaydee sells

DANGER. I use graphite with WALTHERS Passeger cars because graphite conducts electricity but. It can short out the insulating ring on conventional wheels. Conventional wheelsets need one insulated wheel.

METAL wheels were origially machined from brass to NMRA specs and performed better than plastic moulded ones where the main goal is low cost. With the superiority of machined wheels established, stamped metal wheels came onto the marketplace. They were 'metal' and went 'clckety clack' which was enough for some buyers.With lower cost goes Quality Control.

I bought 1 packet of the most popular brand (on this forum). I noticed my cars 'wobbled'. Closer inspection showed 10 of the 12 sets had 'wobble'. The man at the LHS said "all cars wobble"Putting in my 'machined' wheels removed all of it.
Conclusion: All metal wheels are not the same. and you get what you pay for.

[Anonymous]

I had the same problem with an Athearn HO RTR car - one of the CSX cabooses (great paintwork, pity about the wheels...). They were set too wide (gauge) and as they're a one-piece moulding it's impossible to adjust them. I retro-fitted some spare 33in wheels from BB cars that had had P2k metal wheelsets fitted, and it now runs a lot better.

One trick I have found for situations where the axle is a slightly tight fit in the bearings - fit the wheelset, then press the bearings together with one hand while rotating the axle with the other. After a few turns the pinpoint axle ends will have reshaped the plastic bearings and the car will roll freely - cheaper than the specialist tuning tool!