Prices for any item are dictated by the law of supply and demand. Inflation affects the value of money and is driven by the supply of money in relation to the goods and services being produced. When the money supply is inflated, the dollars become less valueable and it requires more of them to buy goods.
The short answer is that both inflation and supply and demand will determine the price of anything.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL There are a number of economic variables that make prices effectively higher or lower from time to time, but averaged out over the long history, the cost of the hobby today is similar to nearly every period in its past. If you want fancy RTR Surfliners, you simply need to pony up the price......
There are a number of economic variables that make prices effectively higher or lower from time to time, but averaged out over the long history, the cost of the hobby today is similar to nearly every period in its past.
If you want fancy RTR Surfliners, you simply need to pony up the price......
There is an important distinction between "the hobby is expensive" and "the hobby is getting more expensive".
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain Bayfield Transfer Railway I have a 1956 American Flyer catalog.A 1956 American Flyer GP7 cost $25.According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm$25 in 1956 equals $269.69 in 2022. And that's an American Flyer "semi scale" model.Ba dum pum. Here are four reasons why your comments prove nothing. 1. American Flyer is no longer in business, so who 's to say what AF would charge today for a GP7. 2. $25 would be considered expensive by many folks back then, so what's changed? Many folks would consider $269.69 expensive today. 3. Manufacturers don't price their locomotives based upon the Consumer Price Index. In fact, no manufacturers do. 4. Wages have not kept pace with inflation according to the US Bureau of Labor. $269.69 is more expensive today than $25 in 1956, so the price today should be less to avoid being considered more expensive than the same model in 1956. Dum da dum dum. Rich
Bayfield Transfer Railway I have a 1956 American Flyer catalog.A 1956 American Flyer GP7 cost $25.According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm$25 in 1956 equals $269.69 in 2022. And that's an American Flyer "semi scale" model.Ba dum pum.
I have a 1956 American Flyer catalog.A 1956 American Flyer GP7 cost $25.According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm$25 in 1956 equals $269.69 in 2022. And that's an American Flyer "semi scale" model.Ba dum pum.
Here are four reasons why your comments prove nothing.
1. American Flyer is no longer in business, so who 's to say what AF would charge today for a GP7.
2. $25 would be considered expensive by many folks back then, so what's changed? Many folks would consider $269.69 expensive today.
3. Manufacturers don't price their locomotives based upon the Consumer Price Index. In fact, no manufacturers do.
4. Wages have not kept pace with inflation according to the US Bureau of Labor. $269.69 is more expensive today than $25 in 1956, so the price today should be less to avoid being considered more expensive than the same model in 1956.
Dum da dum dum.
Agreed, wages and net income have not kept pace with inflation. That is a topic for a different forum.......
$25 was expensive in 1956......
The hobby was expensive then too.......
And again, manufacturers price products based on cost to produce, plus necessary and customary overhead and supply chain markups.
I personally have experianced 5 decades of that past, and worked in this industry for more than a decade.
And I'm not a price complainer. I found money for this hobby when I was 12 - I cut lawns, raked leaves, tied up boats at a local waterfront resturant for tips, etc - my parents did not fund my hobby beyond the intitial investment over many years in the layout my father build and graciously gifted to my control.
By age 14 I worked in the local hobby shop - I tire of these comments about cost vs "bringing young people into the hobby". Cost is not the limiting factor - mentorship is.
Sheldon
richhotrainI spent $56 for a Walthers caboose. $56 for a caboose?
All of my cabooses are brass.
Ugh!
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 What is "an arm and a leg" really? When there is something I need to make my vision come to life, I am going to buy it. I paid about $200.00 each for my brass USRA locomotives. Not much really, but a good sum for a toy. I don't need any more, so even if one comes up for sale for half that price I won't buy it. I would have paid more if I needed to.
What is "an arm and a leg" really?
When there is something I need to make my vision come to life, I am going to buy it. I paid about $200.00 each for my brass USRA locomotives. Not much really, but a good sum for a toy. I don't need any more, so even if one comes up for sale for half that price I won't buy it.
I would have paid more if I needed to.
My most expensive locomotive is a Bowser VO-1000 with sound that cost me $279. I winced when I paid it, and I cringe every time I look at that little sucker on the layout. $279 for a switcher? What was I thinking?
My most expensive passenger car, my passion is passenger trains, was $80 for a Walthers Santa Fe observation car. I try to spend no more than $50 for a passenger car. I don't need lighting or sound.
My most expensive freight was, of all things, a caboose. For some dumb reason, I spent $56 for a Walthers caboose. $56 for a caboose?
My most expensive locomotive purchase was a United/PFM 2-6-2 logging locomotive. I did not really want it, but my wife thought it was the cutest train she had ever seen. I bought it to make her happy. It was worth it.
My biggest locomotive is my Bachmann 2-8-8-4, and I paid more for it than any of my brass USRA steamers. It will go through a 22 inch radius curve, which I could not be sure a brass articulated locomotive would do.
Now that I have "lifetime supplies" of nearly everything I can think of, I am buying almost nothing.
I remember when I was given my first brass locomotive. I thought that it was an extravagent gift, and I did not think I would ever be able to buy a second.
Now I have a fleet of brass locomotives, but I also still have that first one.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Bayway Terminal i just pre-ordered 2 Division Point brass steam engines by Boo Rim of Korea, an SP-MK5/6 2-8-2 Heavy Mikado & Baldwin T2 2-6-2 logging engine W/ slope back tender. At this i have no idea as to when the engines will arrive in the US or what price i can expect to pay. All ReSourced Rails told me was that the shipping container alone cost 3x more ($36,000) than just two years ago, notwitstading truck diesel fuel cost for delivery. With BLI's new GP-30 DCC plastic engine retailing at $400.00, and 40 year old brass steam engines graded at a 7 or above going for up to $1,000 or higher W/no paint/no can motor/ & dried up grease in the gears (that has to be cleaned out by hand) i was informed by the guys at Yankee Dabbler the cost of converting an old brass engine to modern day DCC W ESU LOK sound decorder can add another up to $500 dollars or more to the original purchase price. So after 30 years of wanting brass steam on my HO layout I am prepared to the "bite the bullett". Bayway Terminal NJ
i just pre-ordered 2 Division Point brass steam engines by Boo Rim of Korea, an SP-MK5/6 2-8-2 Heavy Mikado & Baldwin T2 2-6-2 logging engine W/ slope back tender. At this i have no idea as to when the engines will arrive in the US or what price i can expect to pay. All ReSourced Rails told me was that the shipping container alone cost 3x more ($36,000) than just two years ago, notwitstading truck diesel fuel cost for delivery. With BLI's new GP-30 DCC plastic engine retailing at $400.00, and 40 year old brass steam engines graded at a 7 or above going for up to $1,000 or higher W/no paint/no can motor/ & dried up grease in the gears (that has to be cleaned out by hand) i was informed by the guys at Yankee Dabbler the cost of converting an old brass engine to modern day DCC W ESU LOK sound decorder can add another up to $500 dollars or more to the original purchase price. So after 30 years of wanting brass steam on my HO layout I am prepared to the "bite the bullett". Bayway Terminal NJ
Well, congratulations to your purchase (or, more precisely, pre-order). Division Point locomotives are extremely well detailed and run like a charm. I have several of their Santa Fe class 885 Mikados and class 900/1600 2-10-2s steam locomotives and they are my favorites (out of >100 "plastic" and brass locos).
As to the possible price, DP recently produced a number of versions of SP's cab forwards, and they sold for around $4,500. Of course, this is an articulated engine which is a bit more costly to produce. On the other hand, their latest Santa Fe diesel (which is less complicated than a steamer) was the Baldwin DT-6-6-2000 a couple of years ago, which sold for ~ $1,500. Thus, my guess for the locos you pre-ordered would be $3,000 - 3,500 a piece.
FRRYKidice car except the scheme is wrong on one side. I just run it with the correct side out.
I have noticed that over time, all my freight cars tend to get run "good side out".
There is always one side where I did better on the decals and finishing.
-Photograph by Kevin Parson
The equipment potraits always show the good side. The above picture shows a test paint scheme on a car that was given away, but made its way back to me. I think I painted that one about 15 years ago.
I decided to bite the bullet on a brass freight car a few years ago well before the latest inflation. (It doesn't exist in plastic and hadn't before been made in brass.) I paid for it by sending installments to the importer. As I recall it ended up somewhere around $300 - 350 w/ shipping. Nice car except the scheme is wrong on one side. I just run it with the correct side out. Expensive for me but I decided I wanted it badly.
SeeYou190 richhotrain It is averaging 800 views per day. I am amazed at the number of lurkers this site has. People really do come here for information and/or entertainment.
richhotrain It is averaging 800 views per day.
I am amazed at the number of lurkers this site has. People really do come here for information and/or entertainment.
richhotrainIt is averaging 800 views per day.
My how I built my paint booth thread still get plenty of views even though it has not been on the front page in months.
Bayway TerminalBoo Rim of Korea
Now there is something that really does cost an arm and a leg!
We are back on topic!
Kevin, I had the same thought. Great minds think alike
I do wish that the OP had done a better job of managing the thread.
There is a lot of interest in this thread for whatever the reasons. It is averaging 800 views per day.
richhotrainBy my count, the last 11 posts have been completely off topic. Geez, if you don't like the topic, why derail it so to speak?
When this thread first went off topic I suggested it be locked, and all this chatter be moved to the Diner.
This thread has kind of replaced the Diner for this month I guess.
In case you didn't notice, it was derailed a long time ago.
But ... in before the lock!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
By my count, the last 11 posts have been completely off topic. Geez, if you don't like the topic, why derail it so to speak?
rrebellSet up a trust.
If you're talking about my mom's estate, my lawyer sister has already drawn up the paper work.
SeeYou190 You guys that have a layout room already, I envy you.
You guys that have a layout room already, I envy you.
In my case, my room came with the purchase of the house. (Of course, I went in with the specific idea of a room for the layout with a tape measure.) The layout was already built and then build and added a few more sections to get it to where I want it.
riogrande5761 SeeYou190 I am so sorry to hear this. My wife's sister had Covid, and barely survived. However she had several strokes while infected, and she will never be herself again. This has placed an incredible burden on her daughter, who has two young children, caring for her. She will need constant care for the rest of her life. That's aweful and a long lasting care burden. I have 3 sisters. The youngest figured a long time ago she would end up caring for our parents in their declining years. She couldn't have kids so she adopted two Korean kids and one Chinese kid. My mother, who is very old fashioned, could never look at them like she would her own offspring, so my youngest sister has always been very bitter about it and has distanced herself. My wife, being old school believes my little sister should put diffrences aside and help care for our 90 year old mother. But she seems to have disconnected herself - yet she wants her even share of the inheritance. Our mother, who is lucid much of the time, feels she deserves less because of her attitude, and after all, it's her decision how much to pass on. Anyway, the other two of my sisters have issues which seem to make them not ideal candidates for looking after my mother, so rather suddenly, and because I stumbled into my mothers house and found her not well, ended up dealing with the situation. I don't think I have ever really complained about the cost of the hobby. I have vocally complained about the inability to get what I need. Track shortages, Rapido Railcrew uncouplers, Rapido cancelling the undecorated PA, and a few others have been the thorns in my side. -Kevin No, not you. I was referring to the topic starter, and other topic starts in the past since "the hobby is too expensive" rears its head periodically and has for many years. Anyway, how has your hunt for a house with a train room gone. I recall you were house hunting but since you said you have no layout space, it must be on-going?
SeeYou190 I am so sorry to hear this. My wife's sister had Covid, and barely survived. However she had several strokes while infected, and she will never be herself again. This has placed an incredible burden on her daughter, who has two young children, caring for her. She will need constant care for the rest of her life.
I am so sorry to hear this. My wife's sister had Covid, and barely survived. However she had several strokes while infected, and she will never be herself again. This has placed an incredible burden on her daughter, who has two young children, caring for her. She will need constant care for the rest of her life.
That's aweful and a long lasting care burden. I have 3 sisters. The youngest figured a long time ago she would end up caring for our parents in their declining years. She couldn't have kids so she adopted two Korean kids and one Chinese kid. My mother, who is very old fashioned, could never look at them like she would her own offspring, so my youngest sister has always been very bitter about it and has distanced herself. My wife, being old school believes my little sister should put diffrences aside and help care for our 90 year old mother. But she seems to have disconnected herself - yet she wants her even share of the inheritance. Our mother, who is lucid much of the time, feels she deserves less because of her attitude, and after all, it's her decision how much to pass on. Anyway, the other two of my sisters have issues which seem to make them not ideal candidates for looking after my mother, so rather suddenly, and because I stumbled into my mothers house and found her not well, ended up dealing with the situation.
I don't think I have ever really complained about the cost of the hobby. I have vocally complained about the inability to get what I need. Track shortages, Rapido Railcrew uncouplers, Rapido cancelling the undecorated PA, and a few others have been the thorns in my side. -Kevin
I have vocally complained about the inability to get what I need. Track shortages, Rapido Railcrew uncouplers, Rapido cancelling the undecorated PA, and a few others have been the thorns in my side.
No, not you. I was referring to the topic starter, and other topic starts in the past since "the hobby is too expensive" rears its head periodically and has for many years.
Anyway, how has your hunt for a house with a train room gone. I recall you were house hunting but since you said you have no layout space, it must be on-going?
You never know what's going to happen. When we moved into this house in 2006, with a large basement with no dividing walls (and a relatively high ceiling) I was anxious to get going on a nice big layout.
Then the 'Great Recession' happened, and a family member (now with a next-generation family member) had to move in, and the basement got filled up storing stuff, and money had to be spent helping other family members etc.
As it turned out, I finally finished the last major section of benchwork / track on the layout this winter - much later than I would have guessed at the start. If I had know going in, I would have planned a smaller but complete layout that I could have built in available space / expense and could maybe be incorporated into a larger layout later.
SeeYou190 riogrande5761 Anyway, how has your hunt for a house with a train room gone. I recall you were house hunting but since you said you have no layout space, it must be on-going? I gave up the house hunt two years ago when I finally found the perfect home, but it was on a lake, and that raised the price too high for my budget. I have been remodelling my house slowly since then. When done, I will have a train room, and all the other features I wanted. The house is still in the wrong neighborhood, and it is too small. However, it is paid for and the property taxes are nearly zero, so this is where I will stay. The living room and new master bedroom are nearly completed, then onto the 11 by 22 train room, which was the master bedroom before. Without a more expensive house I have been able to maintain myself with an enjoyable job at Home Depot and I have no stress. If I would have bought a more expensive house I would still be on the Hamster Wheel. It all worked out. -Kevin
riogrande5761 Anyway, how has your hunt for a house with a train room gone. I recall you were house hunting but since you said you have no layout space, it must be on-going?
I gave up the house hunt two years ago when I finally found the perfect home, but it was on a lake, and that raised the price too high for my budget.
I have been remodelling my house slowly since then. When done, I will have a train room, and all the other features I wanted. The house is still in the wrong neighborhood, and it is too small. However, it is paid for and the property taxes are nearly zero, so this is where I will stay.
The living room and new master bedroom are nearly completed, then onto the 11 by 22 train room, which was the master bedroom before.
Without a more expensive house I have been able to maintain myself with an enjoyable job at Home Depot and I have no stress. If I would have bought a more expensive house I would still be on the Hamster Wheel. It all worked out.
I made the opposite choice about 21 years ago. I had the modest, paid off house with low taxes in the wrong neighborhood. It had a divided basement with one half having an open 11x28 foot space which I filled with my previous layout. It was poorly designed and not a lot of fun to operate. I could have just scrapped it and rebuilt better but I opted for the dream house in the country with a large space for a basement empire. To accomplish that my finances were stretched to the limit and it has taken me far longer to complete the basement empire than I ever would have imagined. I'm not saying I regret my decision but I have thought about how much simpler my life would have been had kept the old house, lived frugally, and had plenty of money for other things. There are tradeoffs to every decision we make. I guess I'll always wonder if I would have been happier staying with what I had.
davidmurray Only question I have is:"how do you get to the staging area to fix any problems?" It seems to be behind a wall.
David, The orginal plan for the room was to have access to that side through a door in the 1/2 bath/changing room that was going to be added for the swimming pool.
We found out that a swimming pool would not only increase our property taxes, but also increase our insurance. The swimming pool plan was replaced with a large outdoor patio.
So, I lost the planned access point. I will need to do something different, but I have not decided what exactly it will be yet. I have three different ideas.
I have also found out that a section of the room is six inches smaller than anticipated. Two walls did not line up like I thought after I removed the partitions.
This will also require some replanning.
Kevin: this looks like a fun layout. Only question I have is:"how do you get to the staging area to fix any problems?" It seems to be behind a wall.
riogrande5761An 11x22 room isn't huge but certainly workable for a layout. I'm in HO right now but have added a decent N-scale collection for the inevidable downsize I expect will happen eventually. What scale are you planning for?
HO Scale. Here is the conception of the layout room. Track plan will be altered.
Re-modeling can slow things down. I moved in Nov 2017 and we had kitchen and other projects so I wasn't able to start working on finishing the basement until Dec 2018 and finished basically a year later, so it was 2 years from move-in until I could start building the layout. But as seems to be the case, getting time to work on the layout has been hard to come by. Here is where it's at as of early this year:
An 11x22 room isn't huge but certainly workable for a layout. I'm in HO right now but have added a decent N-scale collection for the inevidable downsize I expect will happen eventually. What scale are you planning for?
riogrande5761Anyway, how has your hunt for a house with a train room gone. I recall you were house hunting but since you said you have no layout space, it must be on-going?
riogrande5761 My older sister carelessly gave my 90 year old mother COVID which she survived, but it seems to have advanced her age symptoms like dimentia a great deal and my wife and I have suddenly found ourselves in care giver roles and it's turned our already busy lives upside down.
riogrande5761As for the topic of this title. This is a regular occurance when hobbyists feel they need to vent about the cost of our toys.
I don't think I have ever really complained about the cost of the hobby.