OvermodI think Jim Slade may be held up by not posting more than once. He has to get multiple approvals before he gets off 'moderation'.
OK, I guess, I thought once your post showed up, you were already approved, and the post was allowed to be.
So, after he posted this, then he went into moderation?
Whatever, agree with Kevin, they should let new members know this proceedure.
Mike.
My You Tube
I think Jim Slade may be held up by not posting more than once. He has to get multiple approvals before he gets off 'moderation'.
I for one am interested in the movement in that 'railroad Hamilton watch". It turns out to be true that some railroads did not approve 'older' watches, regardless of condition, for certain service -- one potential later reason being the risk of magnetization of the hairspring. That does not change the interest in the craftsmanship and precision that went into true railroad grade ... or in some of the schemes and scams that could accompany that...
Can we see pictures of the watch and its inner workings?
Yes, thank you Travis.
If we use his logic:
We can't model the 50's because of segregation.
We can't model the 40's because of Hitler and the Holocaust would be too much in focus.
We can't model the 30's because of the depression.
We can't model the 20's because of gangsters, speakeasy's and risky investments.
We can't model the teens because of the other ugly war and a flue pandemic.
And the 1860's would be totally off the table, as would the rest of the later 19th century.....
Etc, etc
Sheldon
mbinsewiOnce again, nothing from the OP Mr. Slade.
His post might have sat in the "waiting admin approval" queue for a couple days. In that time he probably assumed it was lost to gremlins, and went on.
I would like the forum to send an email to new members letting them know how this process works.
By the time we see it, and welcome them in, they might have given up already.
Or, Mr. Slade might have been turned off by the ugliness in some responses.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Once again, nothing from the OP Mr. Slade. Another one these post. Sorry I replied to begin with.
Mr. Slade can go back into hiding.
Lastspikemike Parts of this thread a tad alarming to those of us outside the USA. It is important to know about the history of the rest of the World.
Parts of this thread a tad alarming to those of us outside the USA.
It is important to know about the history of the rest of the World.
MisterBeasley ATLANTIC CENTRAL OK, that's fine, it's your little world. I don't even care to think about what might be going on in the heads of my little 1/87 people, or what their politics or beverage habits are..... But come to think of it, I have never installed a political sign on a layout, and never had a bar or a liquor store on one either........ Sheldon I have one liquor store and four bars on my layout. I've also got a brewery turning out Strumpet Beer and Ale, plus a delivery truck and an ice bunker reefer I've built for the same brand. I know my era is a bit late for billboard beer reefers, but I like them so I have them. I'm not too harsh about enforcing era rules. There are a couple of early sixties autos, and the lastest thing on the layout is a Playboy centerfold from 1967, hung above a workbench inside the roundhouse. My structures are mostly either brick or clapboard, so they span many eras. Boxcars all have roofwalks.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL OK, that's fine, it's your little world. I don't even care to think about what might be going on in the heads of my little 1/87 people, or what their politics or beverage habits are..... But come to think of it, I have never installed a political sign on a layout, and never had a bar or a liquor store on one either........ Sheldon
OK, that's fine, it's your little world.
I don't even care to think about what might be going on in the heads of my little 1/87 people, or what their politics or beverage habits are.....
But come to think of it, I have never installed a political sign on a layout, and never had a bar or a liquor store on one either........
I have one liquor store and four bars on my layout. I've also got a brewery turning out Strumpet Beer and Ale, plus a delivery truck and an ice bunker reefer I've built for the same brand. I know my era is a bit late for billboard beer reefers, but I like them so I have them.
I'm not too harsh about enforcing era rules. There are a couple of early sixties autos, and the lastest thing on the layout is a Playboy centerfold from 1967, hung above a workbench inside the roundhouse. My structures are mostly either brick or clapboard, so they span many eras.
Boxcars all have roofwalks.
I have no issue with those who drink "adult" beverages, but having watched up close as a number of people have struggled with drug and alcohol addiction, I made the choice to set a specific different example. I don't drink.
Before making that choice I was only the most occasional social drinker. I don't miss it one bit, but then again I never craved it.
I think I have a billboard reefer or two floating around, but it is just something I don't think about. I could barely tell you the name or location of a liquor store here in our little town, so I have never thought to put one on the layout.
I don't go to "bars", we don't eat in the "bar" section at restaurants. It is just off my radar completely.
I set my date in 1954 with automobile billboards. That works well for me. Three advertisements for the 1954 cars that are a bit faded are fine.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
After seeing that FAIL of a fundraising pitch, I am thinking of modeling Penn Central. There are lots of broken PRR and NYC cars at the train shows.
Stop making me regret picking Conrail in 1979 lol
My local club models 50's and a lot of elements are transferable between the two eras in a way. Many of the buildings were still up, albeit some abandoned after the disastrous state of the 70's economy. A lot of freight cars from the 50's can easily be mixed into a 1970s era consist (would look off without a COTS label though), and 50's cars were relatively well represented, even if many families had replaced them with more modern "economical" cars.
The 1940s were really the first well documented era of railroading for the enthusiast and modeler -- the Lucius Beebe picture books, the introduction of Trains magazine by Kalmbach. One could make the case that the decades from 1900 to 1940 were even more interesting from a modeling perspective -- when even small towns had passenger train service (and a depot with an agent/operator), and even pretty small businesses and factories had rail service because the truck business was not yet really national. But it was not a well documented era in ways that were accessible to the railfan and modeler. Now in the internet age we see some astounding documentation from long ago, but that stuff was not easy to find before Google!
Another factor is that the hobby is aging. It was still a young person's hobby -- both toy and scale model trains -- into the 1950s. Then things started to change.
Yet another factor is that you can only buy what someone is selling and that first enthusiasic rush towards mass produced locomotives, rolling stock, structures that came after WWII -- well some of that tooling proved to be remarkably durable. Many models that were for sale in 1950 -- and modeled the then current era -- were still for sale in 2000 and some are still for sale here in 2021!
Dave Nelson
And others find tons of 50s-era HO stuff for short dough at train shows. Availability influences choices.
It's hard with a topic like this to come up with a "one size fits all" answer. Some folks like the 1950's because they're old enough to remember it, and want to recreate what they saw. But some younger folks want to model that time to recreate the things they missed because they hadn't been born yet, like steam engines and the great streamlined passenger trains. Others have a family connection, ancestors or other relatives who were railroaders back in that time and passed along their stories and knowledge.
Wayne nailed it for me! I started out in HO in 1951 and just stayed there. I loved trains and the trains I liked the best were what I saw every day as a teen. The powerful Southern Pacific AC-9s pulling the slight grade from ElPaso TX to Alamogordo NM every morning. The AC-9s would be going north when I walked to school in the mornings and the SP Golden State passenger was headed south into town on my way home from school. Early on the Golden State was pulled by Alco PAs and about a year later by EMD E7s. Thus my love for both steam and diesel of the early to mid 1950s. I graduated high school in 1956 so that ended walking under the SP tracks every day but the memories of those times have stayed with me for 65 years.I was helped along by my mentor John Allen and his original G&D layout. His small 3’7” by 6’8” G&D could be replicated in a bedroom of a railroad crazy teen. I didn’t buy my first diesel until the 60s, my Roundhouse 0-6-0 served me well for many years until I bought my first F7 but stuck with my steam, the rubber band drive didn’t do much for me. The F7 bit the dust somewhere along the way but my 0-6-0 still looks and runs like it did when I bought it 70 years ago, great! Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Well, I picked the early 50's for the mix of steam and diesel. I picked the Maryland and Pennsylvania RR because it had small steam, freight cars, and passenger cars dating back to the early 1900's. It also had diesel switchers (SW1, NW2, SW9).
As others mentioned, I don't model segregation, dirt, depression, graphetti, etc. If I want depressing realism, the evening news brings me plenty.
Enjoy
Paul
What an interesting thread. Once over I thought it was going to be 'blocked'.
I wasn't going to join in as the O.P. was talking of the layouts set in the 1940s.
Speaking from the UK when I was a lad most layouts were of the Great Western region; mainly 1930s.
Times and plans change. Now with a lot of models ready available peope can build a layout quickly. The trouble arises that although rule 1 applies people are not really modeling; just placing items on a board. They haven't thought out the overal plan. They haven't modeled anything. They run trains without a reason. They then become enchanted and give up - maybe to build another layout or give up altogether.
I have two layouts running on the same track plan.
First is diesels set in a timeframe 1968 - 1983. Why then? It was a time when I was around the 1-1 scale. The models I have I have seen most of the real ones.
The scenery the trains run through are of areas my family know, therefore are involved one way or another.
My other layout is steam in 1914 - 1919. I was reading a book about The North Eastern Railways prior to and during The Great War. It mentions that in 1909 Railway Companies were told to build 'Ambulance Trains' for in case of war. Nursing Staff to 'be ready' for any emergency regarding war. In 1912 Several Military Manouvres took place on the East Coast in case of invasion. Britain had a great fear that 'a country in the east' would invade. (Germany was that country although never mentioned.)
The factories on my Sovereign Street section are 'in the main' making materials for the war effort. Engineering and clothing are the products. Trains that run all have a purpose.
I make little scenes around the layout to 'bring life' to it. Scenes that are nothing to do with railroads, but are /was all around us. I dislike things being 'perfect'. The sky is not all blue. The grass is not always cut short. Even now I have walked thrugh long grass up to my waist. Trees are fifty shades of green. The color black is very, very difficult to see in nature.
That's me and my railroad. My railroad that has a reason to be there. A living railroad.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
Pruittwhere were the German-American Relocation Centers?)
Lots of places.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans#World_War_II
The War Department wanted mass relocation for all Axis-related Americans, but couldn't figure out how to manage the 15+ million German and Italian Americans.
Pruitt ATLANTIC CENTRAL How exactly does one model "Jim Crow" in 1/87th scale? Sheldon Well, I don't know about modeling Jim Crow, but right smack in my modeling era (~1935-1946/7), and in my modeled area, was the Heart Mountain Relocation Center (one of Japanese-American internment camps in WWII). The CB&Q had a station called "Vocation" there for six or seven years. I will be modeling this station stop as it is part of the history of the region. I will not have passenger trains full of American citizens stopping there, as I consider the forced relocation to have been a huge black eye on the history of this country (where were the German-American Relocation Centers?). So if you got past that without throwing up... I model the 1930's-1940's for some very pragmatic reasons. Almost all freight still traveled by rail. There were lots of small local trains and lots of industries to switch, as centralization was just getting started. Freight cars were mostly about 40' long, so a train of a given length has more cars than more recent eras, giving a model train a more realistic appearance even if it is short. Highways were mostly primitive, so most travel was still done by rail, meaning passenger trains were in abundance and stopped everywhere. As far as the not really pragmatic reasons - I love steam, and diesels are "eh..." at best. And the nostalgia factor for that era is very big for me.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL How exactly does one model "Jim Crow" in 1/87th scale? Sheldon
Well, I don't know about modeling Jim Crow, but right smack in my modeling era (~1935-1946/7), and in my modeled area, was the Heart Mountain Relocation Center (one of Japanese-American internment camps in WWII). The CB&Q had a station called "Vocation" there for six or seven years. I will be modeling this station stop as it is part of the history of the region. I will not have passenger trains full of American citizens stopping there, as I consider the forced relocation to have been a huge black eye on the history of this country (where were the German-American Relocation Centers?).
So if you got past that without throwing up...
I model the 1930's-1940's for some very pragmatic reasons. Almost all freight still traveled by rail. There were lots of small local trains and lots of industries to switch, as centralization was just getting started. Freight cars were mostly about 40' long, so a train of a given length has more cars than more recent eras, giving a model train a more realistic appearance even if it is short. Highways were mostly primitive, so most travel was still done by rail, meaning passenger trains were in abundance and stopped everywhere.
As far as the not really pragmatic reasons - I love steam, and diesels are "eh..." at best. And the nostalgia factor for that era is very big for me.
Interesting how where you grow up influences certain perspectives. Growing up in Nebraska, or maybe Wyoming, Jim Crow laws were discussed probably in a 10 minute session in junior high or high school sociology class, but I can tell you a lot about the Mormon Trial, the Oregon Trail, Indian wars of the west. Folks who lived back east probably had time for different subjects than folks living in the Prairie/West.
When I moved to Indiana at age 22, people were baffled by my lack of detailed knowledge of the American Civil War. I knew about Grant and Lee, but the people I met knew the names of many generals on both sides, battles, weapons of the day. Of course the civil war happened near Indiana. Nebraska wasn't even a state until 1867.
I guess now kids are supposed to learn certain things in a uniform manner, with geographic emphasis being less important. Oh well.
German Amercians were not considered a threat because there was no chance of the Germans ever invading America....or Britain for that matter. Germany never commisioned a proper Navy, never thought of it because invading USA or Britain was never the plan...no landing crafts etc....no aircraft carriers, just a few battle ships and U boats built for sinking supply ships, not for bombarding shorelines. Germany's threat was on a different level, notably mainland europe and future economic domination of that contintent, not direct to America. Japan's Navy was huge, including numerous aircraft carriers. Ocean-going invasions is what Japan did back then, and invasion of the west coast was thought to be a real threat. The dynamics were not the same.
But, the thought of modeling social issues on my layout never occurred to me. I'm not a big non-railroad scenery person. My shelf layouts focus on the trains and industries so any people I place on the layout will be workers, which I assume will be mostly male considering the trains and the industries.
Since I focus on a switching layouts, branch line layouts, I can dictate the types of cars on the layout. Two bay cement hoppers, short corn syrup tank cars, oil tank cars that are about 53 feet long.
There are still plenty of short cars to adequately model modern era in modest spaces.
- Douglas
Paul3 Sheldon,In the September 2001 issue (page 68), Model Railroader ran an Trackside Photo where the flag pole in front of the town hall building had a Battle Flag of the Army of Tennessee mounted above a US Flag. It caused a big stink on rec.models.railroad in August 2001 at the time. Of course, less than a month later we had more important things to think about.
Sheldon,In the September 2001 issue (page 68), Model Railroader ran an Trackside Photo where the flag pole in front of the town hall building had a Battle Flag of the Army of Tennessee mounted above a US Flag. It caused a big stink on rec.models.railroad in August 2001 at the time. Of course, less than a month later we had more important things to think about.
Well, I missed the controversy because I was not on any forums or chat groups in 2001........
I likely looked at the photo without even noticing.
As a student of history, I'm not in favor of re-writing or erasing the ugly parts, but I have no desire to replicate them on my layout either.
I think using the idea of "modeling accuracy" as an excuse to bring this up is a straw man.
I choose to exclude "ugly" from my modeling, if that makes me not "scale" enough or "serious" enough, so be it.
When I got into model railroading in the mid-'50s, I didn't have any thoughts about eras, and simply ran what I liked, steam and diesel.When I got into the hobby somewhat deeper in the late '60s/early '70s, I was primarily modelling the time of the start of that era, but couldn't give up on including steam.When I finally had room to build a decent-size layout, it continued in the same vein, but I finally opted to model the late '30s, when the Depression was mostly over, steam was still king (although there were some diesels around), and the future had at least the possibility of even better days ahead. While I try to be reasonably faithful to that time frame, I'm unabashed about running some not-all-that-common cars of that era, especially covered hoppers (although none of the larger and more sophisticated ones seen nowadays).The cars and locos are weathered, but, in most cases, not extremely so, and most of the structures have a well-maintained appearance. For me, the '50s have very little appeal, as much of what I saw and experienced was not to my liking.
Pretty-well all of the following eras were interesting in their own way, but for me, that doesn't make them candidates for modelling.I admit that my layout is a fantasy of what may have been or may not been, but because I acknowledge it as a fantasy, it suits my interests almost perfectly.
Wayne
- As many already mentioned, I also like steam engines, but also have diesels, so it places me in the transition era.
- But also, I like the automobiles from the 50's and 60's.
- Due to limited space, my layout is only 6x9 feet, so I am using smaller curves, which limits me to shorter (= older era) engines and train cars.
I am born in the 60's, so I have no memories to fall back on for my modelling era.
I am not strictly prototypical with my railroad, so I tend to stretch the era, placing it into early 60's, with some older railroad equipment still in use.
Many of us like steam locomotives and diesel locomotives. In the 1950's both types of locomotive were in use, and a model railroad can have both types AND be prototypical (real). Many of us want our model world to be prototypical.
Other reasons to model the 1950's. Freight cars in the '50s were only 40 feet long. Later era's began to run 50 foot and longer freight cars. You can fit more 40 foot cars onto a layout than you can 50 footers.
Many of us like to model the era that we grew up in. I grew up in the 1950's giving me a second reason to model the 1950's along side my love of both steam and diesel engines.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
ATLANTIC CENTRALHow exactly does one model "Jim Crow" in 1/87th scale? Sheldon
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Trying to get back on subject.
I like modeling my hometown of Toledo, if that were the case now I would be stuck with CSX, GTW and NS none of which I really care about. By modeling the 50's and 60's I have the PRR, NYC, B&O, C&O, NKP, Wabash, DT&I, Ann Arbor, D&TSL and Toledo Terminal along with their much nicer paint schemes compared with the current crap.
And if I really want to go off the reservation I can throw in the Ohio Public Service a freight only Interurban that operated in the 50's.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL If I wanted to hear this kind of <SNIP> I would be on Facebook. I hope the moderators clean this thread up before it gets deleted. -Kevin
ATLANTIC CENTRAL If I wanted to hear this kind of <SNIP> I would be on Facebook.
I hope the moderators clean this thread up before it gets deleted.
Agreed,
One last thought to Travis, there has been "ugly" in EVERY time period in the history of man, and we are no more "enlightened" today than 100 years ago. We just think we are.
ATLANTIC CENTRALIf I wanted to hear this kind of <SNIP> I would be on Facebook.
arbe1948 I don't think the practical aspect of modeling this era has been mentioned at least for freight modeling - smaller engines, smaller cars equals a chance of a better looking layout. Two bay hoppers, 8,000 gallon tanks, 40 and 50 foot boxcars allows one to have a nice looking train on a 6 x 10 layout or even a 4 x 8. Four axelswitchers ad geeps can look prety good on a 24" radius, big SDs and GEVOs not so much.
I don't think the practical aspect of modeling this era has been mentioned at least for freight modeling - smaller engines, smaller cars equals a chance of a better looking layout. Two bay hoppers, 8,000 gallon tanks, 40 and 50 foot boxcars allows one to have a nice looking train on a 6 x 10 layout or even a 4 x 8. Four axelswitchers ad geeps can look prety good on a 24" radius, big SDs and GEVOs not so much.
Agreed, I am getting ready to build a new layout, a moderately large one. And by modeling the 50's, my large curves, long trains and big spaces will seem even more realistic.
Shock Control ATLANTIC CENTRAL Dr King was right, we should judge people by the content of their character, funny thing is, Dr King and JFK fail my character test....... Sheldon Well, they serve as great examples of flawed people who did great things.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Dr King was right, we should judge people by the content of their character, funny thing is, Dr King and JFK fail my character test....... Sheldon
Well, they serve as great examples of flawed people who did great things.
I had a reply, but I feel it is time to just let this go.