azrailMost of the freight car fleet was still 40-50 ft, the paint jobs of the 50s were still visible, we still had the REA and its green trucks everywhere, mail (until 1968) still moved by train.
The STRATTON AND GILLETTE was originally set in 1968. That is a great year to model. You had the distinctive design on second generation diesels, newer styles of rolling stock, but all the cool stuff from the 50s was still floating around.
MjorstadTwo words: steam locomotives.
And there is the reason why the SGRR was back-dated to 1954.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Why model the 1940s-50s?
Two words: steam locomotives.
The transition era allows us to model the biggest, best and most easily acquired steam loco models, ones that were most recently witnessed and are the most photographed. Transition era info is the most accessible info from the steam era, and of course we get to throw in diesels too.
More broadly, the variety of motive power & rolling stock, the vast catalogues of information & pictures (and oral histories!) readily available for modelers, the colorful variety of well-maintained equipment, and the vibrant local surroundings unique to each railroad (which were much closer to their communities back then) mean the transition era is the easiest and most exciting entry point for many modelers.
Personally, I wasn't born anywhere near the 1950s (I'm a late millennial!) but the transition era is easily the most appealing, it allows me to use the adult versions of steam locos I saw on TV as a kid, and it presents (*on the surface*) a veritable utopia, before urban decay/suburban flight destroyed our cities, rural areas emptied out, and countrysides were paved over with ugly subdivisions.
Most of vestiges of 50s railroading were with us all the way up until the late 60s..most of the freight car fleet was still 40-50 ft, the paint jobs of the 50s were still visible, we still had the REA and its green trucks everywhere, mail (until 1968) still moved by train, we had rr operated passenger service (ableit less of it), there were still depots and freight houses, except for the dime stores and dept stores, small towns had mostly local businesses, the design of large trucks didn't change much from the 50s (Kenworths, Macks, Whites). So even if you model the 60s you can still have things from the 50s. (except for steam)
Shock Control I model the modern era, because I generally like the modern design of F units. The modern era also had shorter cars and engines that could go around 18" radius curves. I do not model the contemporary era.
I model the modern era, because I generally like the modern design of F units. The modern era also had shorter cars and engines that could go around 18" radius curves.
I do not model the contemporary era.
You call it the modern era, but most readers on here are not going to understand. They will, think you are talking about present day. All those elements of style that you appreciate from that time are just a blur in history to most people.
Turns out my customer who pays me to help him rehab houses has just had us get started on his latest project. A 1983 post modern revival interpratation that has seen better days.
Been busy for a two weeks helping him plan changes and starting on 5hem.
Sheldon
A big part of their popularity is that trains were shorter and locomotives and cars were smaller and thus more "modelable" back in the 40s and 50s. In contrast, modelling the present day accurately presents some big challenges as trains are 150 to 200 cars long typically, unless you're modelling a shortline or spur. And then there's the aesthetics.. I like the modern power and rolling stock but not the graffitti.. so I model the mid to late 90s..
For my next layout, I am thinking of modeling Stonehenge in HO, circa 1959. I'm looking for old photos so I can replicate the exact amount of wear and tear on the stones that would have reflected its 1959 condition.
Around the perimiter, I plan to run a Lionel HO train with the exploding boxcar, helicopter car, satellite car, missile car, and livestock car with the giraffe poking his head out of the top.
wjstix Also, vintage automobiles shown in Hollywood movies are virtually always rented by the studio, often from vintage car collectors living in southern California. I suspect the studios may therefore not wish to 'dirty up' these valuable rented vehicles, or the owners of the car maybe stipulate in the rental agreement that the car cannot be altered etc. It may depend too on the era and location of where the movie is set. Cars in areas with snow often rust more than cars in warmer weather states, due to the salt and now chemicals put on roads in the winter to melt ice and snow off them. Plus, for movies set in the past, it could just be that people in the 'olden days' kept their cars cleaner. As a kid, seems like there were a lot of TV ads for Turtle Wax and different types of products for washing and waxing your car at home. I know my father parked the '60 Chev in the driveway and hand washed it with the garden hose quite frequently.
Also, vintage automobiles shown in Hollywood movies are virtually always rented by the studio, often from vintage car collectors living in southern California. I suspect the studios may therefore not wish to 'dirty up' these valuable rented vehicles, or the owners of the car maybe stipulate in the rental agreement that the car cannot be altered etc.
It may depend too on the era and location of where the movie is set. Cars in areas with snow often rust more than cars in warmer weather states, due to the salt and now chemicals put on roads in the winter to melt ice and snow off them.
Plus, for movies set in the past, it could just be that people in the 'olden days' kept their cars cleaner. As a kid, seems like there were a lot of TV ads for Turtle Wax and different types of products for washing and waxing your car at home. I know my father parked the '60 Chev in the driveway and hand washed it with the garden hose quite frequently.
I got to see one such car close up at an auto show in Columbus, Oh. At the time it was owned by Len Imke, a local car dealer. It was a yellow late 1930s convertible. It had a rather impressive resume. It made its debut in Casablanca. I'm not positive since the movie is black and white but I think it is the car Major Strasser was racing to the airport in near the end of the movie. It appeared in The Godfather. If I remember right, it was passed by Vito Corleone's ambulance when he was being driven home from the hospital. I've think I've spotted it in a number of other movies made before and since then. I believe I saw it in the movie Seabiscuit. In almost every case, it makes no more than a cameo appearance in a movie. A few seconds on film than back to the owner. I'm not sure who owns it now.
Great topic ... enjoying the varied reasons for selecting a timeframe. Add me to the list of people who model what I saw growing up. Living just north of Pittsburgh, Conrail was a natural choice. As for my time period of 1989 - 1992: that's when I first "got the railroad bug" and so the nostalgia of that combined with my youth froze that period in my mind. It's a good period to model IMO -- past the rusty days of the bankrupt Eastern roads but before every car became a rolling canvas for "artists"; and plenty of different types of rolling stock that so often now are just endless intermodal trains of containers.
LastspikemikeI find it interesting that movie sets usually show
Everything on a set is posed, positioned, lighted, and focused to intentionally set a mood for the production.
The cleanliness of any automobiles it decided upon to set mood, era, and possibly locale.
I model thee CGW(loosly) in the 50s. That was the era of my childhood.
Mike
Doughless I don't think I could model a winter or leafless brown/gray late autumn timeframe.
I like what Mike Confalone did with his Allagash. Gray skies, bare trees, some snow.
Not to get off topic,
There is another guy out there, can't think of his name.
Mike.
My You Tube
Doughless I don't think I could model a winter or leafless brown/gray late autumn timeframe. I bet you could do a small section of your layout. Be a little different. A little gray sky. Not many leaves on the trees. Fifty shades of brown. An old bird's nest in a tree. I know you can do it. Dare yourself to have a layout that is a little different. David
I don't think I could model a winter or leafless brown/gray late autumn timeframe.
I bet you could do a small section of your layout. Be a little different.
A little gray sky. Not many leaves on the trees. Fifty shades of brown. An old bird's nest in a tree. I know you can do it. Dare yourself to have a layout that is a little different.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
NittanyLion I'm going to go against the grain and say why I didn't go with the transition era. Variety, documentation, and aesthetics. While, yes, the 40s/50s definitely had more road names to pick from and there's more kinds of 40' boxcar than I could ever hope to understand, railcars have had a relentless march towards specialization. Aside from stockcars vanishing, every type of railcar that existed then, exists now. But, there were few covered hoppers, none of them the big 3, 4, 5, or 6 bay ones that come in all kinds of shapes and size. Tank cars didn't come in the massive variety they do now. The entire set of intermodal didn't exist. Automobiles still went in boxcars. Even the simple hopper didn't have as big a family tree. Coil cars, one of my personal favorites, were still in the future. Access to documentation is different too. I didn't go with my childhood because I didn't trust my own memories, plus there was something of a transition going on in my area in the late 80s and early 90s. Contemporary modeling gave me access to a period of time with large scale digital photography. No one had to digitize someone's old slides. They just natively uploaded them to websites. Shifting a few years ahead of my original plan gave me Street View. I have a literal time machine. Plus, by going with my own adulthood, I have personal documentation. I don't envy those guys that I see at the shows digging through the binders of slides. I can still drive over to a spot to check something out. Honestly, judging from my family photos and recollections, Western Pennsylvania in the 40s and 50s was ugly. Everything was filthy. The sky was a uniform battleship gray. My mom recalls the days they weren't allowed to go play in the snow because it was orange, from pollution from the nearby sintering plant. Everything had a thin film of coal dust on it, year round. Most surprisingly, is that there wasn't a dang tree anywhere in sight. The woods I played in as a kid were barren scrubland when my parents were kids. Frankly, it isn't an environment I was interested in duplicating. We have pictures that are color pictures, but you would only know if someone told you. It was a dirty, nasty place.
I'm going to go against the grain and say why I didn't go with the transition era.
Variety, documentation, and aesthetics.
While, yes, the 40s/50s definitely had more road names to pick from and there's more kinds of 40' boxcar than I could ever hope to understand, railcars have had a relentless march towards specialization. Aside from stockcars vanishing, every type of railcar that existed then, exists now. But, there were few covered hoppers, none of them the big 3, 4, 5, or 6 bay ones that come in all kinds of shapes and size. Tank cars didn't come in the massive variety they do now. The entire set of intermodal didn't exist. Automobiles still went in boxcars. Even the simple hopper didn't have as big a family tree. Coil cars, one of my personal favorites, were still in the future.
Access to documentation is different too. I didn't go with my childhood because I didn't trust my own memories, plus there was something of a transition going on in my area in the late 80s and early 90s. Contemporary modeling gave me access to a period of time with large scale digital photography. No one had to digitize someone's old slides. They just natively uploaded them to websites. Shifting a few years ahead of my original plan gave me Street View. I have a literal time machine. Plus, by going with my own adulthood, I have personal documentation. I don't envy those guys that I see at the shows digging through the binders of slides. I can still drive over to a spot to check something out.
Honestly, judging from my family photos and recollections, Western Pennsylvania in the 40s and 50s was ugly. Everything was filthy. The sky was a uniform battleship gray. My mom recalls the days they weren't allowed to go play in the snow because it was orange, from pollution from the nearby sintering plant. Everything had a thin film of coal dust on it, year round. Most surprisingly, is that there wasn't a dang tree anywhere in sight. The woods I played in as a kid were barren scrubland when my parents were kids. Frankly, it isn't an environment I was interested in duplicating. We have pictures that are color pictures, but you would only know if someone told you. It was a dirty, nasty place.
This is a good comment. It mirrors my feelings well. I usually just say that I like to model what I see (or saw 10 to 15 years ago that has been pressed into my memory that it seems like yesterday). Your explanation provides more detail about how I think about my interests.
Interesting comments about industrial areas. My experience with real life railroads comes from small towns, rural areas, or suburbs. Pole type buildings, prefab concrete walls, warehouse looking structures located outside of congested older areas. I guess its a bit cleaner and newer environment than other things that can be modeled.
Interestingly, at age 58 I find that in my memories of my youth, and in my memories of traveling through the countryside during the bulk of my career from age 22 to 50, its always a warm sunny day in the spring or summer. Which I find strange for a person who lived in the midwest where its cold and cloudy probably 40-50% of the days. I guess I'm an optimist at the heart, and somehow can't recall the gloomier times. I don't think I could model a winter or leafless brown/gray late autumn timeframe.
- Douglas
I have really attempted to stick to a 1950's era, late steam/early diesel layout, and I just can't do it because for me there's too much modern equipment that I like, and said modern equipment looks silly behind a big articulated. Don't get me wrong, I love steam and the early diesels, always wanted a CB&Q E-5A, yet at the same time, I was not there and have absolutely no memories of that era or even the '60's. So I always cave and switch back to late '70's/early '80's which I do remember.
Yes, I have a few GP-7's, but they are in later paint schemes worn well after the steam era, and I'm only planning to have one steam engine, a 2-8-8-4, for myself (son will have 3). All the rest of my rolling stock fits pretty well in the 1970's and 1980's at this point.
I do not mean to infer that others should do what I'm doing at all; it's just the time period that I vaguely remember. I specifically remember all the pre-Conrail rolling stock fading into history. I also have good memories of the bicentennial celebrations and of seeing the eastern Freedom Train in person. It was a good time to be a kid.
John
SeeYou190 Doughless What's being modeled, I'm not sure. My layout is a fantasy. Most I would categorize as caricatures. I have never seen any layout that tried to model to social strife of its time period except for the occassional picket line or gathering of beatnicks. I have seen more godzillas and king kongs on layouts than people getting arrested. Let's get back to having fun. -Kevin
Doughless What's being modeled, I'm not sure.
My layout is a fantasy. Most I would categorize as caricatures. I have never seen any layout that tried to model to social strife of its time period except for the occassional picket line or gathering of beatnicks.
I have seen more godzillas and king kongs on layouts than people getting arrested.
Let's get back to having fun.
The choice between fantasy or realism is in the beholder. Whether its dinosaur fights or people getting arrested neither really has to do with supporting the trains. Its fine that folks do that, and it is fun and harmless since its just a modeling scene, I was just commenting that the kinds of scenes that folks are talking about modeling or avoiding modeling simply do get much consideration from me.
Maybe because I haven't gotten as far into the fine details and I'm still building landscaping, structures, and ballasting before the layout has to be taken down.
SeeYou190 NittanyLion While, yes, the 40s/50s definitely had more road names to pick from and there's more kinds of 40' boxcar than I could ever hope to understand, railcars have had a relentless march towards specialization. In my boxcar fleet, I have dozens of different styles of 40 foot boxcars, but 90% of them are reddish brown. I can certainly understand the attraction of a more colorful world that modern eras offer. NittanyLion Honestly, judging from my family photos and recollections, Western Pennsylvania in the 40s and 50s was ugly. Everything was filthy. Yes. The more I researched 1954, I was amazed at how dirty and filthy everything was. I model the myth, not the reality. -Kevin
NittanyLion While, yes, the 40s/50s definitely had more road names to pick from and there's more kinds of 40' boxcar than I could ever hope to understand, railcars have had a relentless march towards specialization.
In my boxcar fleet, I have dozens of different styles of 40 foot boxcars, but 90% of them are reddish brown. I can certainly understand the attraction of a more colorful world that modern eras offer.
NittanyLion Honestly, judging from my family photos and recollections, Western Pennsylvania in the 40s and 50s was ugly. Everything was filthy.
Yes. The more I researched 1954, I was amazed at how dirty and filthy everything was. I model the myth, not the reality.
Yes, the industrial areas in big cities were dirty in the 50's, and the 60's, 70's and the 80's when I sold MATCO TOOLS in southeast Baltimore. And those old industrial areas are still working and they are still dirty today.........
The beauty of model railroading. There is no right or wrong as far as I can see.
Whatever a modeler builds is entirely up to them and if they enjoy it, great.
Keep it that way.
NittanyLionWhile, yes, the 40s/50s definitely had more road names to pick from and there's more kinds of 40' boxcar than I could ever hope to understand, railcars have had a relentless march towards specialization.
NittanyLionHonestly, judging from my family photos and recollections, Western Pennsylvania in the 40s and 50s was ugly. Everything was filthy.
SeeYou190Or, Mr. Slade might have been turned off by the ugliness in some responses. -Kevin
Or pontificating by those who ad-nauseum loudly self exalt themselves belaboring narcisstic comments such as "I always life long make the right choices for the right reason and rarely if ever make a mistakes". /out hear before the lock
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
There is a gentleman who I believe lives in Los Angeles, and he tries to model very realistically the contemporary era. He has or had videos on YouTube. He said he almost never runs the trains. His layout shows people getting arrested, victims of crime, and, IIRC, a burning building. If that's your thing, great, but I would never think of doing something like this.
To me that sparks a tangential question, what is model railroading?
If you're modeling people to the degree that there should be the "proper" level of diversity and social awareness, it kind of gets into the depths of modeling. Stuff I would address after the layout is mainly finished. I'd be still working on the correct angle and look of a caged ladder on a cement silo, adding broken pallets to a loading dock, than thinking about that stuff, if I ever would make the time to do so.
Its certainly modeling. And could be very good modeling. What's being modeled, I'm not sure.
RR_Mel SeeYou190 Or, Mr. Slade might have been turned off by the ugliness in some responses. -Kevin I think Kevin nailed it.The OP stated “First off, love model railroads.” I’ll be surprised if he stays. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
SeeYou190 Or, Mr. Slade might have been turned off by the ugliness in some responses. -Kevin
Or, Mr. Slade might have been turned off by the ugliness in some responses.
I think Kevin nailed it.The OP stated “First off, love model railroads.”
I’ll be surprised if he stays. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Well, Travis "suggested" that modeling the Southeast United States "too correctly" in the 1940's or 50's might imply one is not "racially sensitive" enough for todays politically correct climate.
Maybe the OP did not take well to the idea of being called a racist because he likes trains from the 40's and 50's?
However obsurd the connection might be. And it is an absurd connection, that's why I called him on it.
I think its presumptive to assume that others are as offended as we are, for whatever it was that was even offensive in this thread.
I've seen a lot of OPs give up on a thread after posing a question.
I think he's humbly lurking while he reads the opinions. He needs to be "proactive" in posting multiple times at the beginning, which might 'go against the grain' for someone new -- but I think it is advisable, and I've furnished one 'excuse'.
Usually the first 5 or so posts by a new member are moderated. Unless there is reason to continue moderation, the admins will generally clear a member for unlimited posting after this probationary period.
I did check the moderation forum yesterday and today and Jim has not submitted another post. Therefore, it's speculation as to the reason or reasons he has not posted again. We'll just have to wait and see...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.