doctorwayneThe grabirons which I use, either from Tichy or custom bent, are all .012" phosphor-bronze wire, but I use a #79 bit, as I can somehow break #80 bits simply by looking at them.
I agree! #80 bits are born to break at the first opportunity!
Wayne, I'm curious to know how you chuck your bits. Do you leave just a little bit sticking out of the pin vise, or do you only chuck the bottom of the shank?
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
The grabirons which I use, either from Tichy or custom bent, are all .012" phosphor-bronze wire, but I use a #79 bit, as I can somehow break #80 bits simply by looking at them.
I use a set of dividers to mark-off both the vertical spacing of the grabs and the appropriate width, as there are several widths which were in common use during the late '30s.
This r-t-r model of a Dominion-Fowler boxcar was offered by LifeLike Canada as a Proto1000 car, and had free-standing grabirons. However, the grabirons were moulded in acetal plastic, and looked to me to be overly thick, so I replaced them with custom-bent wire ones (like the real cars, they were a non-standard width).
Each car has 36 grabirons, plus two roof grabs, for a total of 78 holes per car. I did over a dozen of these cars, using the #79 bit in a pin vise...
...and 4 or 5 of these Proto2000 stockcars, also originally with over-size plastic grabs, albeit only 30 grabirons and two roof grabs, for a total of 66 holes required for each...
Most of the cars were acquired either as new kits, or as partially-built kits that the original owner wasn't able to finish. As a result, many of the oversize grabs had never been installed, and for those, I first enlarged the holes to accept a stock diameter of Evergreen styrene rod, in order to provide for a styrene-compatible plug for each hole. Once the solvent cement joints had hardened, the excess material was trimmed off before drilling the holes for the grabirons.
A common cause of mis-aligned or otherwise crooked-looking grabirons is mounting holes which have accidently been drilled at an angle...up or down or even left or right.
Here's a bunch of Tyco/Mantua gondolas re-equipped with wire grabirons....
...here's one with crooked grabs because my sense of drilling-direction is apparently crooked, too...
However, using a small pair of smooth-jawed pliers, most of them can be straightened with a simple slight twist, either up or down...
...they don't always all get straightened out, as gondolas are usually subjected to some pretty-severe service, but this isn't unreasonably crooked...
Here's one of them painted....
...and a quite-similar Accurail car with metal grabirons installed...
This scratchbuilt gondola, along with four somewhat similar ones (no side cleanout doors)...
...also has wire grabirons installed. Here's one of them in service...
...and the finished cinder car...
Wayne
SeeYou190I bought 1,000 #78 drill bits about five years ago, and have broken almost half of them now.
Hi Kevin,
I know that you do a lot of work, but that still seems like a lot of broken drills.
Are you using straight bits where the diameter of the shank is the same as the drill bit, or are you using the bits with a 1/8" or 1/4" shank? If you are using the larger shank bits by hand that is likely why they are breaking. They are designed for use in precision drill presses where there is no wobble from side to side. If you are using them by hand, any deflection force caused by wobbling is concentrated at the point where the actual tip meets the larger shank and that is where they break.
I use the bits that don't have the larger shanks. I have found that I break very few drills if I chuck the bit so that very little of it is left sticking out of the pin vise. I leave just enough to get through the material that I am drilling and about 1/16" more so I can see the tip of the bit. Doing that leaves very little of the bit to flex so it stays on target better. If the bit is sticking out by 1/2" or more, there is a much greater tendancy for the shank to flex, and it is the uncontrolled flexing that usually causes the bits to break.
I'm not suggesting that you replace your drill bits if they have the larger shanks, but this information might help others who are considering which bits to buy.
JPDI have been dreading doing this detailed work, but it was not that bad.
Hi JPD,
I know the feeling. I think that is true of a lot of things that we haven't done before.
Congrats on getting the first car done. The others will be easier.
Done, I just painted carefully with a micro brush and it looks great.
I have been dreading doing this detailed work, but it was not that bad. I feel more comfortable with my skills and willing to try doing the grab irons on the passenger cars.
You are right, I had to use a no. 78 for the replacement grab iron.
It looks like you can still get the template from Atlas. See https://shop.atlasrr.com/p-50591-ho-scale-grab-iron-drill-template.aspx. However, I found using a push pin to punch the hole first was all I needed to stop the drill bit from wondering.
A #80 bit is not big enough for 0.015" brass wire.
.
I use a #78 drill for all my grab irons. I use mostly Tichy pre formed grabs becuase they are easy to find, but I think Weterfield grab irons are made better.
When installing grabs on a painted car I only paint the "probes" and not the "face" before installation. Then I touch up with Vallejo paints brushed on when the installation is complete.
Congratulations on not breaking any bits. I bought 1,000 #78 drill bits about five years ago, and have broken almost half of them now.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I have done all 14 grab irons and did not break a no. 80 bit, ta-da! This only took about two hours.
Frankly, I did not think I good do this. It went a lot better than I thought it would. It gives me the confidence to eventually do the grab irons on the Hiawatha passenger cars. I better do it sooner than later, because my eyesight gets worse very year. I hate growing old.
BLMA made a neat little template to ease grabiron installation. They may still be available from Atlas or from the auction site.
I assume we are talking about metal grab irons. Some are shiny copper color and I dip them in a chemical blackener/patina darkener first. That also gives some good "tooth" for paint should you decide to do that.
A factory fresh freight car has nicely painted grabs (and stirrup steps) but they become grimy soon enough after they have been, well, grabbed a few times. I would not obsess about perfectly painting grab irons so long as you kill the unrealistic shine and gleam they have straight from the package.
If some color is appropriate the wax paper idea is a good one but I wonder if pushing a piece of wax paper would be like pushing string. I think very very thin plastic or stiff paper might be more practical, and even reusable. In my experience you only need to come reasonably close to the basic color of the car to be believable.
Dave Nelson