Is Walthers the same company it used to be, no. You can get stuff from other chanels. The reason I say this is just look at their catalog, used to be over 1000 pages in just HO, latest catalog combines HO, N and Z and is not as big. There are more products out there now. Yes some have gone because of limited runs but that only accouts for a fraction of the loss and the new catalogs have more fluff than they used to.
Walthers will not sell any NEW online only stores, unless they had a store, closed it and continued online. New dealers would have to go other distributors. Not sure what Horizon's policy is...
Neal
Sales. Start your "store" as online only, and once you've got your sales built up to $1 million/year you can safely look at a physical retail location. At that point you'll be able to secure financing for your venture based on your sales volume, and your online sales will carry your venture until the store is up and running and bringing in business on its own.
Unless you have very deep pockets, never start any "bricks and mortar" business without first having sales lined up..
marksrailroad I personally have given up on "actual train shops" and now buy everything on-line. My reason for this is becasue I live 50 miles from the nearest shop and dread the drive there and back... What could be simpler than ordering rolling stock or locos on-line and two or three days later they're in the mail box.
I personally have given up on "actual train shops" and now buy everything on-line. My reason for this is becasue I live 50 miles from the nearest shop and dread the drive there and back... What could be simpler than ordering rolling stock or locos on-line and two or three days later they're in the mail box.
I moved out of Columbus, OH about 16 years ago but still frequent the two LHS I used to even though they are almost an hour drive away. I can do this because I still bowl in Columbus twice a week and the bowling alley is about a five minute drive from the two LHS. I wouldn't want to make a special trip into Columbus just to visit a LHS but I have done it if I really needed something right away. I do buy somethings online as well but those are usually the big ticket items like locos. I do this partly for the price and partly for the availability.
dknelson When I go to Milwaukee's Trainfest, one vendor who always seems to have plenty of customers is Scenic Express. They offer a variety of scenery materials and supplies, and are not afraid to charge for them. This suggests to me that most hobby shops AND the on-line vendors are not coming anywhere near exhausting the market for scenery materials. I am not saying that a LHS could make a go of it only with scenery stuff but I do think a larger presence for scenery materials could be a difference maker -- scenery stuff tends not to be scale specific, with some exceptions, it is not subject to the limited run/advance order syndrome, and a lot of inventory can be displayed in a fairly compact area. I vividly remember the last day in business of one of my favorite hobby shops in the Milwaukee area, a shop run by a bunch of very good modelers and -- to be frank -- idealists. They even called the place "Dreamers." On that last day when everything was 70% and more off, there were still tons of high level detail parts, something they prided themselves on, and decals, and Floquil paints, and so on. The take-away for me was that one way to go broke is to focus on the really serious modelers because unless you have "everything," to them you have "nothing." Dave Nelson
When I go to Milwaukee's Trainfest, one vendor who always seems to have plenty of customers is Scenic Express. They offer a variety of scenery materials and supplies, and are not afraid to charge for them.
This suggests to me that most hobby shops AND the on-line vendors are not coming anywhere near exhausting the market for scenery materials. I am not saying that a LHS could make a go of it only with scenery stuff but I do think a larger presence for scenery materials could be a difference maker -- scenery stuff tends not to be scale specific, with some exceptions, it is not subject to the limited run/advance order syndrome, and a lot of inventory can be displayed in a fairly compact area.
I vividly remember the last day in business of one of my favorite hobby shops in the Milwaukee area, a shop run by a bunch of very good modelers and -- to be frank -- idealists. They even called the place "Dreamers." On that last day when everything was 70% and more off, there were still tons of high level detail parts, something they prided themselves on, and decals, and Floquil paints, and so on.
The take-away for me was that one way to go broke is to focus on the really serious modelers because unless you have "everything," to them you have "nothing."
Dave Nelson
My favorite LHS is strictly for trains carries plenty of Woodland Scenics scenery material which has very similar materials to Scenic Express. It would be difficult to allow shelf space for both. Scenic Express does offer Super Trees which would be difficult to stock because one box takes up a lot of space. Rarely do I go in there for scenic material when they don't have what I want in stock.
The other LHS I frequent deals in a number of hobbies and I would guess about 1/3 of the store is devoted to trains. He too carries a good amount of WS scenic material.
I don't know how typical these two LHS are but I don't think they are dropping the ball as far as stocking scenic material.
I had given this some thought years ago about opening a train only store where I live. The problem is like many have said, is location, the internet, and like any other type of retail store business, would be to get customers to venture to a new store, especially one that specializes with a limited category. Amazon isn't a concern as I'm sure they have train sets and have third party people listing things that have a high ticket. My background is in sales in the toy business, and over the past 5 years I've seen the small retail specialty base decrease. Unless you've been established in a major town/city, you're probably not going to succeed.
Established train stores or hobby shops that devote the space and expertise to a category, have a decent chance to survive. Let's not forget some manufacturer's sell direct to both dealers and consumers. In the RC Car business, one wholesaler sells the car kits cheaper than what they sell it to their dealers! What do those dealers do? They carry a few cars but carry an entire array of parts and that's how they try to make their money (these cars do crash alot).
I'll support the LHS or LTS (local train store) as much as I can. If they can match an online price (some do), they'll get my business.
What would it take to run a successful train store today
A Miracle
Middlemen sell everything on the internet for a way cut price.
You better be a great people person or a magician if you would like to try to compete with this endeavor.
The funny thing is some people are capable of this and could probably pull it off.
The more unfortunate thing is not too many people of this caliper are around anymore.
Track Fiddler
PS Someone is always capable.
7j43k SeeYou190 Best example: Ready-To-Roll Trains in Miami. They are in the most terrible location of any shop I have ever visited. Google Street View their shop for a scare, I am serious! I'm missing the scary part. I do live in Oakland, so maybe I'm seeing things differently. I DO see plenty of parking, always a plus. Ed
SeeYou190 Best example: Ready-To-Roll Trains in Miami. They are in the most terrible location of any shop I have ever visited. Google Street View their shop for a scare, I am serious!
I'm missing the scary part. I do live in Oakland, so maybe I'm seeing things differently.
I DO see plenty of parking, always a plus.
Ed
RR_Mel Almost all of the retired model railroaders are deep into buying little things to work on their layouts. I buy detail parts, scenery and miscellaneous stuff constantly, most often under $20.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
The area is fine. I go there all the time. You can park more than 3 cars, espeically on a Saturday or Sunday. No night hours, as the area is not the best, and Bill locks up the place like For Knox.
SeeYou190 7j43k I'm missing the scary part. I do live in Oakland, so maybe I'm seeing things differently. I DO see plenty of parking, always a plus. . Did you get the correct location? . They only have 3 parking places. After you park you need to walk through those razor-wired gates down an alley to a little room where you need to be buzzed in. . . Don't take me wrong here. Ready-To-Roll is a great shop. If you are ever on the Southeast Coast of Florida you need to go. The inside of the store is awesome. . -Kevin .
7j43k I'm missing the scary part. I do live in Oakland, so maybe I'm seeing things differently. I DO see plenty of parking, always a plus.
.
Did you get the correct location?
They only have 3 parking places. After you park you need to walk through those razor-wired gates down an alley to a little room where you need to be buzzed in.
Don't take me wrong here. Ready-To-Roll is a great shop. If you are ever on the Southeast Coast of Florida you need to go. The inside of the store is awesome.
-Kevin
Luxury, pure luxury. It doesn’t look scary to me. Of course I'm from San Bernardino so people from Compton are afraid of me. LOL. Yes I see some of the houses have bars on the windows but they have nice cars. I don’t see graffiti, crack heads, homeless meth addicts or gang bangers which is what to expect by my local hobby shop.
Here is the front. That trash pile is someone's home. https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1359546,-117.292898,3a,42.1y,216.33h,86.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg8pFuw0_FC2uqcYCkwC_LQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
Here is the alley to get to the parking lot:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1354551,-117.2919645,3a,39.7y,272.49h,90.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn1WdecXJK_BKaBcdE0UeGg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
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Model trains take two things... Space and Time. If you do not have both, you are not going to have a layout.
Sure, you are not going to have a layout, but you may still be buying trains and patronizing vendors or shops (focus of this topic). I'd wager that a high percentage of folk who are buying model trains don't have space and are either just collectors or collecting for a future layout. I was in exactly that position for around 14 years and some years in my 20's too. Yet I was still buying trains.
Who has space and time? RETIREES!
Time, certainly, but guys out there with good jobs who can afford a home with a basement - they have space and many examples have been shown over the many years in MR magazine. Just thumb through copy after copy. These people with the nice layouts didn't build them on a retiree's budget. They were/are professionals with salaries so afford a home with space and fill it with trains. Add to that now what with a lot of RTR stuff to help them save time and devote to building the layout.
Howard ZaneMy shop was is such a center (1973-1975) and our front windows with built up everythings and working model railroad brought in many if not just to see the displays. Several were hooked, and became regulars. Of course this was before the net, ... Today? I just do not know as so much has changed, but still a great location is paramount. That will never change. HZ
Today? I just do not know as so much has changed, but still a great location is paramount. That will never change.
HZ
Where is Amazon's great location? It's online and they ship to where ever you are. How about Sears great locations? Yet they are circling the drain and they may be history as a store brand in the next 12 months or so. JC Penny's, Macy's, Radio Shack? Really, how are they different from a hobby shop? They sell products but as brick and mortar stores, they are dying as brand names.
Sure, I'd agree before the rise of online buying but there has been a paradigm shift and it's much discussed in the media, advertising departments are changing the way the target customers in radical ways. Definitely online IS the future of selling model train products and B&M is quickly becoming a distant secondary sales outlet. Why location isn't so important is because online extends REACH of a hobby shop so a well run real time inventory website is going to be a more effective storefront than a door into a shop somewhere. By way of example, MB Klein recently remodeled their B&M store and cut the walk-in space to about 1/3rd of what it used to be, because their online sales continue to grow and outstrip the walk-in. B&M and that way of thinking appears to be a thing of the past. The reality is, the times, they are a changin and in a big way.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
marksrailroaddread the drive there and back
Russell
I personally have given up on "actual train shops" and now buy everything on-line. My reason for this is because I live 50 miles from the nearest shop and dread the drive there and back... What could be simpler than ordering rolling stock or locos on-line and two or three days later they're in the mail box.
Model train stores cannot afford retail space that's designed for high visibility. The model train hobby is not very mainstream and cannot rely upon somebody stopping in just because they saw the sign or have a passing interest. Sure, you might lose a few customers not having high visibility, but there will be way, way, more other days where that high rent will go to waste.
Reportedly, there is a very large and pretty successful shop in Deshler Nebraska. Ever hear of Deshler NE? I doubt the rent is that high, and real estate might even be cheap enough to where they own the building....and rent out a chunk of it to somebody else.
Hobbyists are tolerant of driving a while to get to a train shop. The physical building doesn't need to be conveniently located, IMO.
- Douglas
Howard, The ideas you mentioned for a store all sound pretty good.
I don't think location matters that much however as long as it's not too ghetto. I realize that it’s not a booming business so they can’t afford the highest rents. I think the employees and owners are more important than the location. I have shopped at several different train stores in my life including ones that I have driven an hour or more one way to get to and only a couple of them really made me feel welcome. I think the people skills of the owners make all the difference. I can think of three stores where the owners made you feel completely welcome and acted like they were your best friends. Two of them were in strip malls although one was in a ran down one, and the other store was in an industrial area. It was enjoyable to go to those shops. They didn’t hover or stare you down. They just said hi as you walked in and said if you had any questions just ask. They were always willing to get into a conversation with you about the hobby in general without being a salesman kind of person, they just loved the hobby. Sadly those stores are now closed because the owners retired or passed away. Other stores the employees watch you like a hawk like they expect you to steal something. One time I was looking for paint pens because sometimes they are better than trying to use a paintbrush. The owner’s daughter (who is in her late 50s) demanded to know what I was going to use them for, practically implying that I was going to use them to draw graffiti with them. I was almost too embarrassed to tell her that I use them to paint the blinkers and taillights on my scale vehicles and to paint the lines on my model railroads streets.
I had to forgot to mention in opening post............a very good service dept. which can repair items in any scale and a custom dept that can do DCC installations and painting/detailing of brass, plastic, and die-cast. I also use to offer appraising for insurance quotes, divorce, and other forms of family planning. Note: if I was hired to appraise models, I would never offer a bid, but give client a choice.....appraisal or price quote.
A few thoughts:
1) You would need an owner who has no aspirations of getting rich. I don't think that would happen in this market.
2) Brick and mortar, and even big box stores, are on the decline, everywhere, and in nearly all categories. I don't see a hobby shop faring mych better.
That said, I think the best shot would have to consider location. There needs to be a base of local modelers. And there need to be another base of modelers within an hour and a half drive. Location should be such that if people are making a day trip, there need to be other things to do in the area to make the trip enticing.
Online presence is a must. Sure, there are still folks who shy away from the internet - but just look how popular forums like this and facebook groups are. Those folks like to spend time scrolling around on their phones, and having a good online presence is essential.
Personally - I think the store needs to be extremely welcoming to beginners. You want those new to the hobby to stop in your store for help or bargains rather than feel for themselves online. This probably means having some kind of service department, sponsoring clinics, and a discount or bargain table. My feeling is that people new to the hobby could (at least for awhile) prefer to head to a store rather than feel overwhelmed by ebay and the snide comments on these message boards (how many times does a kid or newbie post something here only to get a "did you run a search" or "that loco is garbage" response)
- Kevin
Check out my shapeways creations! HOn3 and railroad items for 3D printing:
https://www.shapeways.com/shops/kevin-s-model-train-detail-parts
The owner needs to do much of the work and have as few employees as possible. Contributing to the success in measureable ways is important. I see too many absentee owners in small businesses, where their contributions aren't exactly measurable.
Howard ZaneOur used train department with trade-ins allowed countered the discounters quite well, and brought in many from way out of town.
Absolutely..I picked up a used Walthers SW1 for $18.00 at the Berea (Ohio) show and it was like new. Guessing I would say 75% of my cars and locomotives was bought used.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Comments about train shops surving and still doing business in not so great areas works for folks who know about them and will risk a trip to a lousy area of town to purchase what they are looking for. Any retail business needs walk-in traffic, and a decent location in a mall or strip center is a must if new business is wanted.
My shop was is such a center (1973-1975) and our front windows with built up everythings and working model railroad brought in many if not just to see the displays. Several were hooked, and became regulars. Of course this was before the net, but we still had to deal with discounter/mail order ads in magazines as serious competition. Our used train department with trade-ins allowed countered the discounters quite well, and brought in many from way out of town. It was here that I formulated the Great Scale Model Train Show aka Timonium as used and out-of production trains became king and eventualy took over most of the shop.
When I first saw this thread I was going to post and be a little bit cocky and say a miracle. I want to be more positive but I still kind of feel that way.
Every time I go to the last two hobby stores in my city, I am brushed aside and not getting my questions answered. This is not okay I don't even want to go to either one of these hobby stores again but they are the only two left.
On a past thread I stated how important it is in the resort business how you relate and talk to people. If you opened a hobby store you would have to make each individual feel special (appreciated) In the resort business you have to talk to customers and make them feel at home and make them wish to come back.
That's the same for a hobby store or any business. Everyone wants to be appreciated. Everyone wants to be Remember by name. Everyone wants to come back if you give them a reason to do that. This is what today's businesses are lacking.
Sad state of affairs in customer relations today
PS I just had to add this. The last two times I went to the hobby store in St Paul. I paid too much for two locomotives. I could have paid half the price on the Internet. I bought them there and paid full price because I knew where to go if I have a problem with anything.
Bayfield Transfer Railway How do you have a million dollars and a model train shop?Start with two million dollars.
How do you have a million dollars and a model train shop?Start with two million dollars.
Two million is no where near enough.........
Sheldon
A successful LHS in my view has whatever I want at the time of my visit in stock, is close by, has ample parking avalaible, ultra-friendly and knowledgeable staff and, most important, rock-bottom prices.
All of that is a sure recipe for making a small fortune out of a rather big one in very short time!
Here is a LHS about fifteen miles from me. Look at all the products they carry. It is not a train shop. Trains are not primary. A friend of mine is paid to do DCC installs.Doing install is not my interest anymore.
A couple retired guys once in a while tend the model rail road layouts, only for observing. Not for customers to run.
No idea about other hobbies like remote controlled cars and airplanes.
http://www.pvhobbies.com/
A couple freinds fly RC planes but get some stuff there and online.
I have not talked with the owner in sometime so no idea on how much online service he does. He bought the business in the 1990's as I remember stropping in the first time in Northampton, Ma.
Generally someone who has never run a business as no idea the start up requirements for a business. Workers with a knowledge of the many hobbies around are needed. The owner cannot do it all.
There are many hobbies the have nothing to do with trains.Train shops are pretty mucch gone like steam engines.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
"What would it take to run a successful train store today?"
Deep pockets, clairvoyance, and help from a deity.
Bubbytrains