Given the woes of brick and mortar stores in all phases of retailing, I think it would be difficult to make a go of a new LHS. There are two LHS that I frequent and both of them are well established (40 to 50 years) with a loyal clientelle. They seem to be doing well but then again, I'm not privy to their bottom line. I think it would be very difficult for a start up these days to stay in the business given that this is a niche hobby, not one with widespread appeal. I don't know how typical I am as a customer but both LHS are almost an hour drive. I became an established customer when I was less than 10 minutes from them. I don't think I would be making that drive if these were new businesses. I just think a start up would have a very difficult time establishing a customer base.
-Jon
Many small shops are retreating to out of the owners basement/garage and only seen on ebay or at train shows and deal mostly in older models/estates. Of which there is a never ending steam with the older modelers passing on. The small Ma and Pa hobby shop on the street corner are definatly a thing of the past. Even big stores like Sears and Kmart are nearly out of business by the "point and click" convience of Amazon and other online retailers. I suspect "cyper Monday" generates more sales this year in volume than black friday does.
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
7j43kPark across the street? Looks like lots of room there.
.
Nope. Those are all people's front yards. They don't take too kinmdly to that.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
A web presence is mandatory now. Several LHS's I have visited mention that the on-line business exceeds the walk-in business these days(An Affair with Trains, and Engine House Services).
Of course one will need a large fortune to invest so they can make a small fortune! Myself, I would rather invest in something else, and not make my living selling model trains(I was part owner in two hobby shops in the 80's).
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
SeeYou190 7j43k I'm missing the scary part. I do live in Oakland, so maybe I'm seeing things differently. I DO see plenty of parking, always a plus. . Did you get the correct location? . They only have 3 parking places. After you park you need to walk through those razor-wired gates down an alley to a little room where you need to be buzzed in.
7j43k I'm missing the scary part. I do live in Oakland, so maybe I'm seeing things differently. I DO see plenty of parking, always a plus.
Did you get the correct location?
They only have 3 parking places. After you park you need to walk through those razor-wired gates down an alley to a little room where you need to be buzzed in.
Yup, that's the one I saw.
Park across the street? Looks like lots of room there.
Ed
Howard,
In my view, having managed a hobby shop train department myself, the only future for brick and mortar stores would be:
Way more than 2000 sq ft, more like ten times that.
A good web presence and a store location that is low cost but near large population centers.
Big enough to buy most products direct and thereby have very good pricing.
Yes, knowledgeable people and hobby promotion.
The small shop business model is dead. Why should I pay more to wait for some guy to order what he can't stock because his shop is too small when I can just push a few buttons and have it show up at my door? That is not just about price - it is about service.
You cannot sell what you don't have. There is only one company I will preorder from - because they are small and sell direct - Spring Mills Depot.
I have been having this discussion with "Paul3" and others on here for years about products, pricing, inventory and preorders. Paul is right about one thing, there is too much product for a small shop to stock a representivie selection. All arguments about pricing or preorders are secondary to that fact. Now you have to be BIG - like MB Klein or TrainWorld.
Too much deep discounting and preorders have changed this hobby - not in a good way.
Distributors and small shops are dieing fast. We saw this comming in the 1980's when I worked at Glen Burnie Hobby World. We tried to put together some investors for a "discount superstore hobby shop", never could find the right people.
Howard, how much money do you have? Do you know of any empty grocery stores for sale cheap?
I will put together a management team for you.........
Sheldon
Unfortunately, (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), the future is not in brick and mortor stores, with some exceptions. With an online store your overhead is all in warehousing and website development. Minor compared to the overhead of most storefronts in high traffic areas. And on top of that shipping and handling covers its own cost. People have too much going on today and too many things vying for their attention. And in any business you need to reach the widest audience. A local store is nice, but its always going to more expensive and time consuming and few stores can afford to have a large enough stock to have everything you want. It is only a matter of time before most all stores are online only. Look at any mall today. About the only thing left is clothes, jewelery, and cheap goods kiosks. I havent even seen a bookstore in years.
I agree, a strong online presence is essential to surviving in todays hobby scene. But you also need the storefront as a condition to get many of the accounts with suppliers to get the trains. Your website needs to have its inventory in real time and updated in real time so if someone buys in store, its removed from both the online and store inventory, same for an online purchase, this avoids customer issues with product purchased but not in stock. A kind and informed staff/owner. An owner that does not go into tirades about the issues in the industry or bash brands that HE doesn't like. Just because he doesnt like xyz brand, that might be the customers favorite brand. A good positive attitude is essential to keep and retain customers, espically your core base that is local as well as out of towners that are visiting. Location is somewhat import but not an end all/be all. I know several shops in the middle of nowwhere, but they have robust sales due to all of the above items and hosting a great 2 day open house 2 times a year(spring and fall). Its also helpfull to have a selection of guys that repair trains. I myself do this for a shop in Indy. They have a guy for Lionel/American Flyer, someone else handles plastic HO and DCC/Sound installs(other than brass). I handle all brass repair work. That shop also has a sizable used/second hand selection from estates he has purchased. The sales of the second hand items far outpace his sales of new items due to being less expensive. Showing that many new items have hit the point where, atleast locally, modelers will only buy one or two, or maybe none at all and go with an older model. Mike the Aspie
Don't take me wrong here. Ready-To-Roll is a great shop. If you are ever on the Southeast Coast of Florida you need to go. The inside of the store is awesome.
Howard,That would have worked great in the 70,80s and into the 90s but,today without a on line presence you're dead in the water before you open your doors.Even big box stores is turning to on line to support their store sales and to compete with Amazon and e-Bay.
Clinics? Good luck with that..I suspect there would be few attendees due the family,errand or chore excuses many use today for not attending train shows,club meeting or other modeling events.Even retirees uses those excuses.
The good side is it would work with on line sales to back up your store sales and if you cater to R/C and miniature gaming.
Weekly sales and Saturday specials would help draw customers.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
SeeYou190 Best example: Ready-To-Roll Trains in Miami. They are in the most terrible location of any shop I have ever visited. Google Street View their shop for a scare, I am serious!
I'm missing the scary part. I do live in Oakland, so maybe I'm seeing things differently.
I DO see plenty of parking, always a plus.
7j43kMost modelers are not needing a walking-traffic location. By that, I mean that they will make an effort to find a good one nearby, and GO there.
Oh, absolutely. A Model Train shop is 100% a "destination" store. People leave their houses with an intent to go there specifically.
Best example: Ready-To-Roll Trains in Miami. They are in the most terrible location of any shop I have ever visited. Google Street View their shop for a scare, I am serious!
By location I meant the geographic area, not street address.
This is based solely on my observations and no real study whatsoever.
Model trains take two things... Space and Time. If you do not have both, you are not going to have a layout.
Who has space and time? RETIREES!
Here in Florida we are not losing train stores, in fact we get a couple new ones every few years. Most rececently Metro Trains in Fort Myers and ZitNik Trains in Pinellas Park. They are both doing fine from what I have seen.
They have a customer base made up of plenty of retired folk, and Florida is chock full of that sub-type of the human group.
To start a successful hobby shop today I really feel its success depends on location. Obviously that location should include retired folks, and lots of them.
I'm not convinced on location being far more important than anything else. The two best train shops that I know of within an hour's drive are in a semi-industrial area or in a strip mall in the middle of, well, whatever strip malls are in the middle of.
Most modelers are not needing a walking-traffic location. By that, I mean that they will make an effort to find a good one nearby, and GO there.
There is an exception, though. That would be people who are beginners or who are looking for toy trains for their kids. A well trafficked location would certainly help with THAT demographic.
I think the most important thing for a shop is for an owner who delivers for his customers. I once went to a shop where the counter person said they'd get things. Some they did. Some they didn't bother. The last visit was when I found out that what I ordered was unobtainable, and the owner was telling me right then he could get it. What good is that to me?
My current shop is VERY good at getting things I want. Right up to ordering from a competitor if things "fell through the cracks". That would be taking a loss. Owner did it anyway. So I go back.
My current shop has a big layout where customers are invited to bring trains and run. The shop has also given DCC clinics. The shop has "a guy" who can install sound. And a Thomas Table for little kids.
AND. My current shop, the one that's in the semi-industrial area, manages to get a lot of beginners and toy-train shoppers, somehow. Especially starting now.
As the news of hobby/train stores keep closing their doors, what would it take today to open and run a really succesful shop besides on line sales? I live in an area well endowed with decent shops, but still we have lost a few recently. Probably now the largest shop in the country, MB Klein aka modeltrainstuff.com is only 30 minutes north, but they have recently condensed their retail presence considerably to accomodate more warehouse space for their quite successful on-line/mail order business.
Here are my thoughts as I once owned a shop in the early 70's.
First is a great location which I have found would compensate many times over a large expense..and be able to purchase building or space at a later date. One of the reasons Tommy Gilbert's in Gettysburg, Pa is still doing well after several decades.....He owns the building, besides being great at what he does.
Then really good people skills along with knowing how to advertise and market your wares. I have visited many stores with a counter person giving me the "what are you doing here" stare.
For me a dream store would be and look like this.....At least 2000'square feet, great lighting, ample aisle width, a place to sit, attractive and friendly sales folks, a what is new area in addition to a close out/bargain table or area. Plenty of used trains, of course a wall of brass models and craftsman kits, a consignment area, loads of detail parts and a strong selection of staples such as resins, and paints, etc. Of course would be the latest publications and books. There should be a good operating layout friendly to newbies as to operation and for just introducing the hobby. An accesible bulletin board, a table for show fliers and other forms of local events. A staff who fully understands the meaning of "follow-up" would be nice in addition to being well versed in the hobby. The shop should have hours in keeping with current availble free times for the area.
Clinics should be held on many subjects relating to the hobby, and of course in the evenings or on weekends. A wish list is always nice in addition to be on the store mailing list. Trades should be accepted and often encouraged in addition to a fair lay-away plan. I once had a refreshment table with always a fresh pot of coffee for customers.....but had to stop as the idiots in the county at the time required me then to have a food service license.
Of all of these features and I'm sure many of you can think of more, I'd say the location would be the most important and then some.
Thoughts? Perhaps some may become inspired to open a good shop nearby.
HZ