IRONROOSTER challenger3980 As far as the "Reserve Price" as I said earlier, I don't care for it, and AGREE, that the seller SHOULD just set their opening bid at their "Reserve" price, but there is nothing "dishonest" about it, it is a common thing in the auction business. One of the reasons for using a "Hidden Reserve Price" is because it generates activity, it has been shown that the more bids placed, the higher the final price. The seller wants to generate activity/interest in the item. Bidders after having placed a bid will often be determined to "Win" and will often get into bidding wars, this is why many sellers start even expensive items at 99 cents,to get bidders interested and involved, in most cases it works. Two identical items, one with a .99 starting bid, and another with a $50 starting bid, 99% of the time, the listing with the .99 cent starting bid will sell for a significantly HIGHER Final price than the identical item with the higher starting bid, As you describe it, it is a tactic for getting people to pay more for an item than they otherwise would. The idea being that the desire to "win" outweighs their common sense. Instead of making a rational decision on the price to pay, they pay more than they normally would because of the emotion. If getting people to do this strikes you as an honest way to do business, then we'll just have to disagree on what honesty in business is. So again, I think most folks ought to just avoid eBay. Paul
challenger3980 As far as the "Reserve Price" as I said earlier, I don't care for it, and AGREE, that the seller SHOULD just set their opening bid at their "Reserve" price, but there is nothing "dishonest" about it, it is a common thing in the auction business. One of the reasons for using a "Hidden Reserve Price" is because it generates activity, it has been shown that the more bids placed, the higher the final price. The seller wants to generate activity/interest in the item. Bidders after having placed a bid will often be determined to "Win" and will often get into bidding wars, this is why many sellers start even expensive items at 99 cents,to get bidders interested and involved, in most cases it works. Two identical items, one with a .99 starting bid, and another with a $50 starting bid, 99% of the time, the listing with the .99 cent starting bid will sell for a significantly HIGHER Final price than the identical item with the higher starting bid,
As you describe it, it is a tactic for getting people to pay more for an item than they otherwise would. The idea being that the desire to "win" outweighs their common sense. Instead of making a rational decision on the price to pay, they pay more than they normally would because of the emotion. If getting people to do this strikes you as an honest way to do business, then we'll just have to disagree on what honesty in business is.
So again, I think most folks ought to just avoid eBay.
Paul
Wow, what a cynical view of the world, and of business in general. You make sound like someone dreamed up the idea of an auction just to cheat people.
By your thinking, all auctions are immoral.
Sorry, but as a seller or a bidder at an auction I am not responsable for the choices others make with their money. Lack of self control their problem. But who are you to decide for others how much they can afford or should pay for something?
Did you ever consider that the person who bids "too much" in your eyes may have so much money it does not matter to them?
I can only set values for myself, I never pay more than I can afford, and I don't need or want a baby sitter...........
Sheldon
It all boils down to a willing seller and a willing buyer. In another life I was a real estate broker. When I would present an offer that was lower than asking price on one of my listings, one of my arguments, someone is buying your house for $XXXX, the buyer or you Mister seller. The OP wouldn't sell his locomotive for $475, so in essence he bought it for the $750 price he refused to lower.
challenger3980Why do you take it personally?
.
richhotrainKevin, really? Tsk, tsk. Think about what you are saying and what you are doing.
I love eBay. If I want something new off the shelf, I go to any one of a dozen friendly local brick-n-mortar hobby shops I frequent. If all else fails I just order direct from Walthers. I never use "Buy It Now" for somewthing I can get off the shelf.
If I want something old, used, out of production, and difficult to find... I go to eBay, and I go to win. If that very-hard-to-find Proto 2000 undecorated Mather Boxcar shows up, I am going to win it, or whoever wants it more is REALLY going to pay for taking away what should be mine.
This happens in auctions of all kinds. When someone takes the high bid on that handmade 27 drawer antique literature file from an estate auction, I bid him up and make him respect me. Next auction he might back off earlier when he sees me in the mix. Yes, that was personal, yes I am still bitter about losing that one. However, the regulars at estate auctions in Naples, FL know who I am and know I am serious about items that I desire.
I wish eBay still displayed the full bidder IDs so "king64ramone" could get the respect he (I) once had. The items I want are so speciallized, that it seemed I was often up against the same 20-30 bidders.
Bidding wars are good for everyone, especially the seller, except for the poor fellow who drew my attention.
I still lose way more than I win, but I have fun. Eventually I will get everything I want.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
ATLANTIC CENTRALYou make sound like someone dreamed up the idea of an auction just to cheat people. By your thinking, all auctions are immoral.
I am talking about eBay and other auctions that work the way eBay does. Not all auctions (and I have been to them) work like eBay. They are straight forward about what they are doing.
As for business in general (since you brought it up) There are companies that don't have ethical standards of behavior and there are those that do. I prefer to do business with those that do. If that's being cynical, so be it.
Reserve pricing can take place in all types of auctions and auction houses. Internet or ebay is no different. Its to protect the seller from any particular day that sees such low volume that market value isn't reached.
Market value always assumes certain conditions are present, and a lack of visibility by interested parties on any given day could be defined as "distressed" conditions. With reserve pricing, the seller protects himself from having to sell the product under distressed conditions so he can offer it again under normal market conditions.
I suppose its possible to set a reserve price so high as to only try to capture the frenzy of a bidding war, but I think protecting a seller from selling under low visibility conditions is the prevailing reason.
A lot of people simply set reserve pricing too high, thinking the market value of their item is higher than it is.
- Douglas
IRONROOSTER ATLANTIC CENTRAL You make sound like someone dreamed up the idea of an auction just to cheat people. By your thinking, all auctions are immoral. I am talking about eBay and other auctions that work the way eBay does. Not all auctions (and I have been to them) work like eBay. They are straight forward about what they are doing. As for business in general (since you brought it up) There are companies that don't have ethical standards of behavior and there are those that do. I prefer to do business with those that do. If that's being cynical, so be it. Paul
ATLANTIC CENTRAL You make sound like someone dreamed up the idea of an auction just to cheat people. By your thinking, all auctions are immoral.
Paul, but we cannot "go to" Ebay, it is by default a proxy bid process. I'm surely not going to be on line at a specific time to be in a live auction. Some may like sitting there as the clock counts down but I have better things to do. I like the fact that I can set my max bid, let the auction happen, and if I win great. I am virtually never "online" at the time I win or lose.
And, I buy (and sell) a lot on Ebay with "Buy it Now", it works great.
SeeYou190Bidding wars are good for everyone, especially the seller, except for the poor fellow who drew my attention.
I enjoy watching a bidding war..Seen a very common BB CN 40' boxcar go for IIRC around $25.00.. BB kits was still plentiful when that auction took place at the fraction of the cost.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
How, exactly, does the buy it now work (besides the obvious)?
Does an item with a BIN actually start out at some lower price, say $1.99, and the seller hope the bids go up?
If the item does not reach the BIN price, does the seller have to let the item go at a lower price when the auction ends?
What happens if a bidding war starts? Does whoever gets to the BIN price automatically win the auction, or is it possible for an item to exceed the BIN amount?
maxman How, exactly, does the buy it now work (besides the obvious)? Does an item with a BIN actually start out at some lower price, say $1.99, and the seller hope the bids go up? If the item does not reach the BIN price, does the seller have to let the item go at a lower price when the auction ends? What happens if a bidding war starts? Does whoever gets to the BIN price automatically win the auction, or is it possible for an item to exceed the BIN amount?
Rich
Alton Junction
maxmanIf the item does not reach the BIN price, does the seller have to let the item go at a lower price when the auction ends?
As soon as a bid is placed on the item the Buy It Now option is no longer available and the listing continues until the ending time. IF no other bidder comes forward you get the item at the minimum bid price.
Frequently I see items sell for a considerable amount over what the Buy It Now price was. I use the Buy It Now sometimes if it is an item that I don't want to risk missing out on.
Regards, Ed
MOST "Buy it Now" listings do not have the additional auction or best offer features, they are simply "buy it now at this price", click on it, pay with paypal, deal done.
Here is an example of one of mine:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/162608795433?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
Lots of trains on Ebay are listed this way as well - no auction, no offers, no waiting.......
So we have two BIN means that there is a single price and no bidding. And one if someone makes a bid the BIN is no longer.
Any other "bids" on an answer? I'm starting to agree with whomever it was that said that EBay bidding was too complicated.
maxmanAny other "bids" on an answer? I'm starting to agree with whomever it was that said that EBay bidding was too complicated.
How about just using Google to find the answer:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/how-buy-bin.html
Here is selling, which actually explains buying a bit better.
https://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/selling-basics.html
Both are a good read to understand how it works.
If in doubt, go to the reference document. <--At least I learned something from 9 years in the Navy.
maxman So we have two BIN means that there is a single price and no bidding. And one if someone makes a bid the BIN is no longer. Any other "bids" on an answer? I'm starting to agree with whomever it was that said that EBay bidding was too complicated.
Ebay has several selling methods:
Auction - with or without a reserve price, 1, 3, 5, 7 days or 10 days
Buy it Now - just like a store, one price, no bidding, no waiting, no negotiating, click on it, pay for it, it comes in the mail.
Buy it Now w/best offer - buy it now, OR make an offer, the seller can accept or reject your offer.
Auction with Buy it Now option - until someone makes a bid, you can buy it right way at a buy it now price set by the seller. Once someone bids less than the buy it now price, it turns into a regular auction sale.
There you have it, four basic selling formats, different ways to buy/sell different types of products.
I sell new tractor parts, accessories and information books, all with Buy it Now - just like a store.
And lots of the model train vendors sell with buy it now - I have bought lots of stuff that way, as well as auctions.
Years back got two, new in the box Spectrum 2-6-6-2 locos, $75.00 each.
maxman I'm starting to agree with whomever it was that said that EBay bidding was too complicated.
I'm starting to agree with whomever it was that said that EBay bidding was too complicated.
Okay, I'm starting to understand. But what about this listing, http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-BN-Bicentennial-SD40-2-Locomotive-1876-w-Sound-Athearn-98370-vmf121-/142413577749?hash=item212882be15:g:qXIAAOSwjRpZVZo-,
where it says 11 are watching. If it is a BIN, exactly what/why are they watching?
maxman If it is a BIN, exactly what/why are they watching?
I sometimes have dozens of items in my "Watched List" and you can make any number of customized watched categories.
There may be several reasons to watch an item. You simply want to track an item to see if it sells and at what price or sometimes the seller will re-list it at a lower price if it doesn't sell in the first round. (You will see a notification in your watched listing if a seller re-lists an item).
There may be several, or even dozens of identical items and you want to keep track of which one has the best overall cost— as in some sellers offering free shipping or discounted price, another reason that I sometimes keep items in my "watched" list is that Ebay will make suggestions based on my watched item and occasionally one of these suggested items is something I am interested in.
For instance, I may be watching a PRR brass decapod. Every few days Ebay may send me an email suggesting similar items, maybe other PRR steam, other brass locomotives. I may take a look or I may choose to ignore it. Similar suggested items are often listed on "My Ebay" page which I may choose to explore.
I often click on the link to "View sellers Other Items" since there may be other items by the same seller that may interest me.
Saved Searches are another way to scour the thousands of listings and find items I may be interested in. Once you learn some of the finer points of refining a search you can even have Ebay send you notifications by email if a particular item has been listed.
I sometimes look at ended auctions. There is a menu on the left of the page where Ebay lists the results of past ended auctions for about the last year or so. With this option I can see if an item sold and if so, at what cost. These are simply tools to help me evaluate future purchases or get a feel for what is available.
maxman it says 11 are watching. If it is a BIN, exactly what/why are they watching?
People are checking to see the amount of intrrest in an item. They may have one they are considering selling. If an item they're watcging doesn't sell, it's usually because it's priced too high, the S&H isn't right, or no one is interested.
The time an item takes to sell at BIN can also be instructive.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
maxman Okay, I'm starting to understand. But what about this listing, http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-BN-Bicentennial-SD40-2-Locomotive-1876-w-Sound-Athearn-98370-vmf121-/142413577749?hash=item212882be15:g:qXIAAOSwjRpZVZo-, where it says 11 are watching. If it is a BIN, exactly what/why are they watching?
In the case of the eBay listing that you cited, there are 3 of that locomotive available and 11 Watchers.
As a Seller, I pay little attention to Watchers. They rarely are buyers. Once you click on a listing as a Watcher, it is easy to track the listing in My eBay, a personal directory to all of your eBay activity. That is the main reason to become a Watcher.
So, as far as a BIN listing is concerned, there would seem to be little reason to watch it since you can immediately buy it. But, as Ed pointed out, there are other reasons to watch a BIN listing. One reason is to track the eventual sale in order to determine a price for a similar listing. Sellers often do this. Sometimes, it is a technique that buyers use to determine a reasonable price for their own purchases.
As far as an auction is concerned, as a Seller, I don't get too excited about the number of Watchers. I am more interested in the number of Views. How many potential bidders am I reaching with my listing?
Whether you are a Seller or a Buyer, you can gather some important information by looking at the Completed Listings and Sold Listings for identical or similar items. Completed Listings is a complete list of recently ended auctions and BINs whether the item sold or not. Sold Listings is a complete list of recently ended auctions and BINs in which the listed item has sold.
Dear OP-
I was away on brief vacation and have not read all replies, but at the last Tim
onium show (Howard was away) the few brass dealers who were there made ridiculous lowball offers to me for some brass models, offers similar to the one you received on Ebay. Apparently these clowns assume I am stupid and ignorant of basic facts about ho brass.
I walked out with my models, stuck to my guns, and easily netted more than a thousand dollars higher than what the train show dealers were offering after all ebay and paypal fees were paid.
Also, I receive lowball offers on Ebay, and sometimes I respond politely, and sometimes I do not even respond.
I say stick to your guns. Good brass eventually brings what it is worth, but the photos need to be clear and sharp, and sometimes I have to relist them. It is good if you can to sell under some dealer prices a little, as you described, but you do not need to give it away, either.
Best regards--
John
PRR8259 Dear OP- I was away on brief vacation and have not read all replies, but at the last Ti monium show (Howard was away) the few brass dealers who were there made ridiculous lowball offers to me for some brass models, offers similar to the one you received on Ebay. Apparently these clowns assume I am stupid and ignorant of basic facts about ho brass. I walked out with my models, stuck to my guns, and easily netted more than a thousand dollars higher than what the train show dealers were offering after all ebay and paypal fees were paid. Also, I receive lowball offers on Ebay, and sometimes I respond politely, and sometimes I do not even respond. I say stick to your guns. Good brass eventually brings what it is worth, but the photos need to be clear and sharp, and sometimes I have to relist them. It is good if you can to sell under some dealer prices a little, as you described, but you do not need to give it away, either. Best regards-- John
I was away on brief vacation and have not read all replies, but at the last Ti
monium show (Howard was away) the few brass dealers who were there made ridiculous lowball offers to me for some brass models, offers similar to the one you received on Ebay. Apparently these clowns assume I am stupid and ignorant of basic facts about ho brass.
I will agree with John, and repeat what I said earlier.
In ANY specialty market, it is wrong to assume that there is a waiting buying for what you are selling every minute of any given day. Sometimes you just have to put an item out there and give the right person long enough to find it.
I strongly disagree with the idea that you can fully gauge the value of an item based on how fast it sells at a given price. That thinking assumes there are always more buyers than the supply at any given moment.
And if no one is looking for that item, no price is low enough to make it sell.......
People enter and leave various markets all the time, in small specialty markets you have to have some patience, and some confidence in your own knowledge of the value.
Well, I have been impressed with all the words of wisdom and good advice from so many concerning my original post. Perhaps I should have titled it "HOW SHOULD ONE BID ON FEEBAY AND THE PSYCHOLOGY INVOLVED?" rather than asking a simple question about the word REASONABLE.
Let me get this out..........when I posted my auctions I was given a choice of listing the stuff as a "straight auction" or the "Buy It Now" feature. Since I can't see listing something I wanted to get $600 for starting at a penny I looked for "RESERVE PRICE". Seemed reasonable (THERE'S THAT WORD AGAIN!) to me as if I only got a $1 bid as top bidder I have to sell it. Kinda stupid doing that. SO, since it NEVER SHOWED me how to place a reserve price I opted for BIN. Seemed like a good way to go. Well, when I was lisiting the stuff it automatically applied "OR BEST OFFER" to the auctions. OK, I thought, I can do that. So I entered the rest of the information and hit LIST and it rejected it saying I had to provide a minimum price. OK.........so I did............I made the MAO price lower and what I would accept and then it rejected that saying the minimum can't be equal to the BIN price. It wasn't and they were both different. So now what? So I changed my BIN to be above the MAO price and it kept rejecting it until I had the BIN price way out of line. SO what can one do? It never gave me the option of just BIN which I would have been fine with.
I exited and tried later to list the stuff. This time it added the MAO to my BIN listing with a small difference in the prices I could live with so I listed the stuff. Yes, consistancy seems to be absent listing things.
Before you all ask...........YES..........I tried to get help from feebay which is more difficult than booking a trip to Pluto (STILL a planet). I finally got to speak to a live person after going around and around their click here to be rerouted system. Unfortunately, my experience doing this always connects me to a person of diminished intelligence who never can understand the problem and also speaks some language I can't comprehend.
SO to get back to my original posting about REASONABLE OFFERS I fully understand wanting a "deal" and all that. I also understand that as long-time modelers, especially us brass guys, that no one can expect a guy asking $600 for an engine to accept a bid for $100. To me that's totally unreasonable and pure assinine to even ask.
As usual this is a fine example of how a thread gets so off course it becomes unrecognizable.
Thanks for all the strategy and ideas on bidding even though none really helped with my question.
oldline1
oldline1...to me as if I only got a $1 bid as top bidder I have to sell it. Kinda stupid doing that.
If you list the item as a regular auction WHY would you have to make your starting price One Dollar? You can make your starting price closer to the $600 you are hoping to get and not worry about selling below that.
I shy away from "Reserve Price" auctions. Every bid up to the unknown reserve is just a waste of time. Simply make the opening price at your minimum and go from there.
Ed,
I was only explaining the choices offered to me by feebay at the time I listed my auctions. Reserve price wasn't there. I did list them as straight auction at the price I wanted as starting price.
I don't know what they think there at the watercooler but it seems every time I try to run auctions the rules change and the listing process gets more and more strange.
I see plenty of auctions for just a BIN price without the MAO part. I couldn't find that choice when I was listing my stuff. My only 2 choices were the straight auction without reserve price and the BIN/MAO. I personally don't care for the MAO option as a buyer or seller.
oldline1, I don't think it is your intention, but your most recent replies are filled with misinformation about eBay and the selling process. Starting with your continued use of the term "feebay", you are clearly giving people a false impression of how to sell items on eBay.
It is possible to conduct auctions, and it is possible to include a reserve price. It is possible to conduct Buy It Now sales, and it is possible to include or exclude the Best Offer option.
Instead of persisting to blast eBay, if you are serious about effectively utilizing the selling process, contact eBay by phone and describe what you would like to do in terms of auctions and Buy It Now listings. I have always found eBay's Customer Service to be knowledgeable and helpful.
First of all what is reasonable to the seller may not be resonable to the buyer. There are buy/sell groups on Facebook and Yahoo. Since you do not like Ebay maybe you should consider trying one of them. If they are not your deal either take them to a train show and see if they sell there.
richhotrainoldline1, I don't think it is your intention, but your most recent replies are filled with misinformation about eBay and the selling process. Starting with your continued use of the term "feebay", you are clearly giving people a false impression of how to sell items on eBay. It is possible to conduct auctions, and it is possible to include a reserve price. It is possible to conduct Buy It Now sales, and it is possible to include or exclude the Best Offer option. Instead of persisting to blast eBay, if you are serious about effectively utilizing the selling process, contact eBay by phone and describe what you would like to do in terms of auctions and Buy It Now listings. I have always found eBay's Customer Service to be knowledgeable and helpful. Rich
Rich,
Excuse my use of the term and I'm sorry it offends you or anyone else but it is what it is. I don't think I'm giving people a false sense of how to deal with feebay. Most people have already formed their opinions of the company either way just like with everything else.
Anyway, if you read my posts I explained that I have used feebay for many years and have had many auctions. All the things you and others say about how to do it usually worked. HOWEVER, the last 2 times I have tried to list my stuff there just weren't the options I found before on the pages where I listed things.
The reserve price option did not show anywhere on them. The choice of selecting Make An Offer was mandatory when I selected Buy It Now. So what was I to do?
I DID CALL FEEBAY CS and actually I called 3 times. I'm sorry but I can't talk whatever language those people were talking. The one agent that made reasonable sense just couldn't seem to understand what I wanted to do with the auction. Her suggestion was to just list my engine in a straight auction with a $1 starting bid and let the auction run. I certainly don't think so! That's not a good way to sell things. I don't think you or any of the other folks here would list an expensive brass engine in a straight auction for $1 with nothing to protect you. She had no idea why that wasn't a workable solution.
Anyway, I have tried to relist some items and have run in to the same options. I see auctions all the time with just BIN so what's the trick to doing that? I can't find the magic button to click and make that happen.
As to reasonable. Yes, your idea and my idea aren't the same obviously. I think $100 for a $600 item is very unreasonable in my case. I'm very willing to work with someone but the object here is to sell the item and not give it away free to a good home. How many of you would accept that offer? Be real and think about it. Yes, we all want a good deal but facts are facts and none of you who think I was wrong to not accept a $100 for my engine wouldn't accept the offer were it proferred to you.
Speaking of unreasonable have any of you noticed the messages from feebay after your auction is over telling you to relist? I recently had an S scale N&W A & aux tender on auction. It didn't sell and feebay SUGGESTED I list it for $150-180! Yeah, right! Like I said before I don't know where they come up with some of their crap but that's just purely insane. On the other hand.....I'm sure it would sell for that price.
Never mind, my situation is my situation, most don't seem to believe me or undestand so let's just let it rest. One last thing...........I didn't create the term feebay..............I first heard it here on the MR forums and have heard it many other places like train shows and hobby shops so don't blame me for the accurate term.
oldline1, I am not suggesting that your expectation for a selling price is unreasonable. I am simply pointing out that your assumptions about selling methods are wrong. Give eBay Customer Service another call and tell the representative that you wish to start an auction with a reserve price or start a Buy It Now listing without a Best Offer option. Tell the rep that these options are not showing up when you go to prepare a listing. Sometimes, some of the options do not appear and the representative can "fix the glitch".
oldline1,
First I believe you when you say you had trouble setting up the listing the way you wanted it to be.
That process can be confusing, and sometimes I do think it is on purpose to "steer" people to do what Ebay wants.
BUT, the selling methods I and others listed earlier in this thread are "in there" and can be done. Often you simply need to "uncheck" a box that Ebay has checked for you in advance......
I have no opinion about your pricing, except to say this, I only sell on Ebay two ways:
BUY IT NOW - with no "best offer".
or
AUCTION - with no other features, no reserve, no buy it now. BUT, I set the starting price at the lowest price I an willing to sell the item for. Works fine every time.
Again, I only own two brass locos, I have no interest in brass, I have no opinion on its fair pricing - I play with cheap plastic and die cast metal trains......
About this Feebay thing, have you ever operated a business? Like a retail store? If you think Ebay's fees are too high, I respectfully suggest you show me where or how anyone reaches a customer base that large and has the payment/shipping/customer service infrastructure that they have for less?
Ebay fees are typical of the overhead percentages of any direct to the customer business model, and all you need supply is a computer and printer - what a deal.
I've been selling custom tractor parts on Ebay for about 6 years now. Not a big business, but I could never have reached my several hundred customers for less by any other means, if I could have reached them at all......
I don't buy a ton on Ebay, but if I do find what I need, I buy on Ebay without hesitation - never had a bad experiance - I have had problems, but they always got worked out quickly and professionally.
If you want a minimum $600 for an item, set up an auction with the starting price at $600.
If you'd be willing to take a little less, then make that little less price the starting bid.