My question is........how do YOU define REASONABLE? I have several brass auctions going on feebay right now with the Buy It Now or Make An Offer selected. In the auctions I state I will accept reasonable offers. Most folks don't take advantage of BIN or MAO in the first place in spite of what feebay says about them.
I'm not trying to get rich off the auction and I'm already retired so that isn't my goal here. All I want is to recoup my investment and cover the costs of shipping, feebay fees and PayPal. I don't think that's an unreasonable goal.
SO..........an engine that's rather hard to come by and expensive to begin with, factory painted, MIB that sells in the $800-850 area at shops IF it comes up I list as BIN and MAO for $750 I don't think is out of line. Yes, we all want one for free but I find it unacceptable to receive an offer of $475. I want to sell my stuff and it isn't Free To A Good Home!
What do you all consider REASONABLE? Maybe I'm crazy?
oldline1
oldline1What do you all consider REASONABLE? Maybe I'm crazy? oldline1
I've bought and traded for decades and here's my personal thought.
A reasonable offer would target the price or trade value I really want.
As a example..I'm asking $100.00 for a used DCC/Sound Atlas/Kato GP7. A offer of $75.00 would be in the ball park since my asking price is inflated so I can haggle the price in order to get the price I really want,in this case that $75.00 offer.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
In the ideal world it would be nice if we were all inteligent shoppers. Just for grins I looked at a specific Intermountain sound equiped SD40. That exact model number sells for $190 at a big internet retailer and there are at least two for sale on Ebay, one for $180 and one for $300.
Neither has a make offer, but in this example, the price is easily researched. The $300 guy must be hoping someone who has had too much to drink stumbles on his ad late at night and and just has to have that loco. Won't that buyer feel stupid in the morning.
In the case of stuff that is not longer made, knowing it's worth is much harder.
Everyone wants a deal but not all of us enjoy car shopping. Everyone also has a budget. If $700 is all I have to spend, I don't particularly want you to send me a nasty email nor do I want to get caught up in the auction frenzy of bidding (against myself perhaps) and chasing the price to the point of having buyers remorse.
OTOH if my budget is $1,000 I can play the game, how cheap can I get it? Without having buyers remorse, no matter what I pay.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
IMO used stuff, from an individual rather than a dealer, is reasonably priced at 60% of full retail. From the buyers point of view, there is more risk associated with buying used and the risk is compounded when buying from other than a dealer who is known for standing behind what they sell.
I don't mean to imply that individual sellers are not reputable, just that a buyer has no real way of knowing.
And... even rare model railroad equipment falls under the old rule that anything is only worth what someone will pay for it. In other words, it is the buyers that determine value, not sellers.
As a buyer, I would offer you what it's worth to me. If that's less than you are willing to take, don't get insulted, just reject the offer and move on.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
I tend to use make a offer listing on something I like. But when I do the seller isn't willing to go down $10-20 on a locomotive, instead he wants me pay $5 bucks less. That's not a good price for a new unused locomotive from 5-7 years ago.
I believe your brass point is reasonable for what you're willing to sell it.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
I think it's like beauty; it's all in the eyes of the beholder. Or, if you prefer, like real estate. An appraiser will assess a property and compare it to the listings of others like it. Is the market trending upward for that kind of property locally? If so, and it's a hot market, you might be able to list it for about 4% higher. If the market is cooling, then less...especially if you'd like to move it along.
I figure a person loses nothing by lowballing. The lower the offer, the more likely the seller is to be offended, so it's a touchy operation. The seller isn't obliged to accept, or even to counter. It's a dance. Sometimes a person gets lucky.
You could respond with, "Thank-you for your offer. I'm only willing to sell at a reasonable price, which I feel I have listed. I am prepared to negotiate, but not to take a bath. I hope you understand. I am willing to consider another offer from you, but only if it is substantially closer to the price I have listed for the item."
You have remained civil, composed, in control, apparently unflappable or slow to ire, and made clear the terms under which you will consider further discussion with him. It places the ball very much in a descending arc on his side of the net.
oldline1I list as BIN and MAO for $750 I don't think is out of line. Yes, we all want one for free but I find it unacceptable to receive an offer of $475.
I don't know exactly how it works, but I'm assuming that the BIN price would be the minimum you would accept to part with the item. Why even put in the MAO statement?
If you are saying that you would consider an amount less than the BIN amount, then why don't you put the item up for a regular auction with a minimum bid being that new number?
One angle on this may be the uniqueness of the item as well as whether it is higher priced, the latter in particular. Higher priced, unique real estate I hear typically takes longer to sell (at a price with a willing buyer and willing seller). That of course relates to a lower number of potential buyers, who have both the budget and the desire to buy at a partcular time (within the sales window).
As such, one would expect that it would typically take the higher priced / more unique items longer to achieve the buyer to come along that is willing to pay a "reasonable" price. So one can auction and take what one gets, or offer at a price (and/or current best offer) but decide to accept the current market or to delay and market again later.
I would think a latest version Genesis new in box Big Boy would tend to sell faster at a reasonable price than a great condition, best ever made, Big Boy which would sell at a considerably higher price, with fewer serious potential buyers.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
When I buy and see a BIN best offer listing, I assume the seller will take no less than 85% of his BIN price, if that. a 475 offer on a 750 BIN is unreasonable.
However, I think your BIN price is probably a bit high just based on only the info you gave. If I can get one at the local for 800-850, then buying one off the internet from a private seller should cost me no more than 700, possibly even 650. Still, 475 would be too low, IMO.
What it cost you is not relvant to the price. The buyer wont pay you your cost unless the internet market price supports it.
- Douglas
I get best prices when I sell starting the item at 99 cents and running the auction for 10 days. Occasionally I get a beating, but I almost always get more than what my minimum would have been.
.
Sometimes my items get bid higher than someone else had the same item listed with a Buy It Now.
Bidding frenzies are awesome.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
oldline1 My question is........how do YOU define REASONABLE? I have several brass auctions going on feebay right now with the Buy It Now or Make An Offer selected. In the auctions I state I will accept reasonable offers. Most folks don't take advantage of BIN or MAO in the first place in spite of what feebay says about them. I'm not trying to get rich off the auction and I'm already retired so that isn't my goal here. All I want is to recoup my investment and cover the costs of shipping, feebay fees and PayPal. I don't think that's an unreasonable goal. SO..........an engine that's rather hard to come by and expensive to begin with, factory painted, MIB that sells in the $800-850 area at shops IF it comes up I list as BIN and MAO for $750 I don't think is out of line. Yes, we all want one for free but I find it unacceptable to receive an offer of $475. I want to sell my stuff and it isn't Free To A Good Home! What do you all consider REASONABLE? Maybe I'm crazy? oldline1
Rich
Alton Junction
The problem now is getting every cent since the final value fee is 9% if u have a store, then a FVF on shipping, then 3% of paypal. You are in 15% or so. The more pricey the item, the more you lose! But you will never sell it on Craigslist, Etsy, Trainz, etc. If your price is ballpark, it will sell. I have sold alot of trains this year and really if you go by past sales on ebay or brasstrains.com, you will get bites. Just be sure to accurately describe any defects or issues and you will be golden!
I have a PFM 2-8-8-2 that has been on now for a month and has no offers, so I know I need to come down, or wait until the fall near Xmas when money flows better. THis is vacation season and money is going towards vacations and not collectibles.
Good luck with your sale! I have so many I need to sell (so I can keep what I want) as I bought a mondo estatee of brass and DCC/Sound plastics. A lot of work but fun.
Best buyers are overseas, so open your auction up worldwide. Can tell u that my best prices have come from UK, Japan, Taiwan, etc.. No issues with their worldwide shipping program. Again, clear description so no misunderstandings.
Anyone need some brass or DCC/Sound primarily N&W, let me know!
maxman I don't know exactly how it works, but I'm assuming that the BIN price would be the minimum you would accept to part with the item. Why even put in the MAO statement? If you are saying that you would consider an amount less than the BIN amount, then why don't you put the item up for a regular auction with a minimum bid being that new number?
A Buy It Now listing, without a Best Offer option, requires an interested buyer to pay the Buy It Now price to purchase the item. That would represent the seller's minimum price. If a Buy it Now listing includes a Best Offer option, it indicates that the Buy It Now price is negotiable.
Hi,
I've been a buyer/seller on Ebay since 2000. I prefer auctions when selling, with a starting price of the absolute minimum I would accept. When I buy, I prefer BIN, but have sure worked an awful lot of auctions too.
IMO, there are a few primary factors to be realized when selling on Ebay.
- Your presentation (title, description, pics) opens the door to buyers. If you do a good honest job of that, you will likely get more attention.
- Ebay is an open to all marketplace. Your item is valued only at what a buyer is willing to pay for it. It may be something near and dear to you, but if no one wants it or is willing to pay what you want, it will remain yours.
- Trains and many other hobby items are just not worth (to a buyer) what we would like to think they are. There are exceptions (be it brass or postwar Lionel or Flyer), those being pristine "in the box w/packaging" items. Everything else will sell - if it sells - at a percentage of what we would want.
- Timing is everything. I've had items on auction one week with no bids, and after relisting them two weeks later I've had "bidding wars" to get them. The only advice I can give for selling trains is to do so from say October thru March, which is traditionally the time when folks "play with trains".
I've tracked my auctions for the last 10-12 years, and typically net 73 to 75 percent of selling price. Yes, Ebay and Paypal charge a fee, and of course packaging materials cost money. That is business, and if you want that market exposure, that is the price to enter.
If I had to sell all my stuff locally over the years, well I can tell you I would be out of the hobby for sure.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I usually list my ebay items with a starting bid of the minimum I will take, if past sales support the price. Usually my shipping cost is a flat $4.50 for 1st class mail if packed the item weighs less than 13 ounce, and that includes a new box. On the rare occasions I use Buy It Now, I usually ask for a best offer. You can set a range, "accept at least and reject less than." I suggest the OP should use those filters. That way he won't get upset by a low ball offer, because he won't see it.
I pretty much only use Buy It Now because I hate losing an auction at the last second and not being allowed to raise my bid like a real auction. As far as Make Offer goes. Some people only want to accept your offer if it is only $5 below their Buy It Now Price. They seem to think their stuff is worth more than it is. I used to work for a jeweler who sold estate jewelry. They would accept any offer as long as they covered their cost and hopefully made a little profit. Their standard answer to any offer over their cost was, “Can you come up X dollars?” If the person refused to come up then if the jeweler made a profit then they sold it. Better to make a little money than none. It was all about cash flow. Of course most sellers on eBay are not sharks. But you need to be the expert and know the value of what you are selling. Ebay makes that easy for you. Simply search for an item you want to appraise then check the little box in the left column which says ‘Sold Items’. The search results will show you only items that have recently sold and how much they sold for. Use the results to find an average. That is the value of your item. The value of your item is a reasonable offer. Recently I made an offer on a set of old time passenger cars but the seller only wanted to come down $5 from his Buy It Now price which was far to high. I said, “no thank you and explained what their value was. He got mad but I noticed that his cars never sold.
As far as opening bid: Always set your opening bid at the price you are willing to sell it for. It only takes one bid to make a sale.
Ask for $50 under Brasstrains.com price?
oldline1I find it unacceptable to receive an offer of $475. I want to sell my stuff and it isn't Free To A Good Home! What do you all consider REASONABLE?
I don't see why it's unacceptable nor why it would be unreasonable. Maybe you'll take that and both of you will be happy. $475 is nowhere near free. The guy could be a dealer wanting to build some retail stock and that could be more than most would offer, but he'd have a hard time making a profit at retail if he offered you more.
I may be wrong, but isn't there a function you can set on MAO that will reject an offer if below a minimum you set? In that case, the potential buyer is encouraged try again or not depending on what they want to do.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
oldline1All I want is to recoup my investment and cover the costs of shipping, feebay fees and PayPal. I don't think that's an unreasonable goal.
So you're saying you want someone to not only pay what you paid (including fees and taxes at the time), but also your shipping, eBay fees, and PayPal fees - in total more than you paid. Frankly, I think that is unreasonable. Unless you're a business buying at wholesale and selling at retail, or a collector who invests in collectibles in the hopes of their value going up, there is no real reason to expect to recoup your costs. Most things sell for less than their original price on the used market - usually much less.
Frankly, I know people get upset at offers they consider low not only for trains, but also houses, cars, etc. But why? You can just turn it down.
Two comments:
1. Relist the items in late October - much better chance of selling them for a good price - the summer is the dead zone for sellers of train items (great time to buy though)
2. Make sure your BIN price reflects current selling prices for the models in question. Ebay is not the local trainshop and brass is a very finicky and somewhat volatile market - it is possible prices may have dropped since you bought the item...
I've been there - I feel your pain - items never seem to sell for what you think they should or for what you paid for them...
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
In addition to my comment about checking Brasstrains.com price and price matching. I would submit to you that you will probably not recoupe your investment. Brass does not always gain value, and is not really a good investment anymore. I have no idea what you are trying to sell, but if there is a diecast or plastic mass produced model available that is comparable to your item, the demand will be low. This will depress the price people are willing to pay. If your road is not a popular one, it maybe hard to find a buyer who is willing to pay your price.
Lots of good points from everyone, so I will not repeat any of what has been said.
One point many people seem to miss, or wrongly assume is this:
No matter your price or method of sale (auction, BIN, etc), there simply may not be anyone looking for that item at the time you are offering it.
And low ball offers may well be speculators who are willing to patiently resell your item at a higher price.
For a number of years I sold some custom GRAVELY tractor parts on Ebay, almost always with BIN listings which I kept active all the time. Sometimes sales were brisk, other times slow........don't assume that even in this big world of the internet there is always someone ready and able who wants your item, if your price is fair, hold your price and be patient.
Sheldon
Lone Wolf and Santa Fe wrote:
I pretty much only use Buy It Now because I hate losing an auction at the last second and not being allowed to raise my bid like a real auction.
You obviously don't understand how ebay works. Just bid $5.00 MORE than you are willing to pay, and you wont be disappointed by getting out bid at the last second.
Ebay auction prices are determined by the SECOND HIGHEST bidder. If you place a bid of the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM you are willing to pay, you will either win the item, or would have been out bid any way regardless of how many times you can add to your bid, someone else just wanted it more than YOU.
the GREAT thing about ebay is you CAN BID a very high bid, but NOT necessarily PAY that much. In your bidding scenario if you bid $100 for a $10 boxcar, you are going to PAY $100 for that $10 boxcar. with ebay, you set your maximum bid for a $500 locomotive at $1000, and the SECOND HIGHEST bidder only bids $175, You will only pay $176 for that $500 locomotive, even though you BID $1000.
The ONLY reason to complain about getting "Sniped" on ebay, is because YOU DIDN'T place your TRUE Maximum bid. I truly get TIRED of people making this same GROUNDLESS complaint about ebay all the time, there is nothing to complain about, IF you UNDERSTAND how the system works, quit your bitchin.
And for those immature ones that have to refer to it as "Feebay", "Fleabay" "Evilbay" etc. etc. etc. if it is so BAD, DON'T USE IT, ohh, but you're NOT going to find anywhere else that you are likely to NET OUT any more than you will on ebay, or you would use the other sales venue.
I personally have mainly bought, but have sold a few items on ebay, and it is an EXCELLENT place to find many hard to find items, and also for a hobbiest to sell items they are no longer using, to fund purchases of items that will be more useful. My own Positive experinces so far out weigh the negative o nes by such a large margin it is not worth worrying about, I have had at least as many or more disappointing purchases at trainshows than I have had with ebay.
YMMV,
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
Doug, great post.
RobertSchuknecht Doug, great post.
Agree!
Next to Amazon, Ebay is my "go-to" place for hard to find or long out-of-production items. In the twelve years and 1500 successful transactions I've had at Ebay I have no regrets or "horror stories" to relate to.
Sure, there's always one of those listings for that "rare, scarce, one-of-a-kind" item— but you have to do your own research to evaluate the true value of the item being offered and use your own common sense before committing any money in the game.
Ed
It is a good post, and let me add some comments of my own.
The notion of what I call "silent maximums" escapes many casual users of eBay.
You can often spot a bidder placing a silent maximum even though the amount is not apparent. Let's say that the higher bidder at some point in the auction is identified as e***8. This is the method eBay uses to conceal identities. e***8 is the high bidder at $102.50 for an item. All of a sudden, another bid is indicated and it is e***8 bidding against himself. But the high bid still shows at $102.50. What e***8 has done is place a "silent maximum", say $125.00. Now, you decide to bid $110.00 to seize the lead, but e***8 remains the high bidder at $112.50, the next incremental bid at that price point. Given your determination to win the auction, you bid $150.00. You are now the high bidder at $127.50. Perhaps a bit confusing until you become more familiar with the bidding process.
Let's also remember that eBay is really not feebay or fleabay or evilbay or whatever. Where else can you find a nationwide, a worldwide audience, of interested buyers? And the 10% eBay fee is a pittance in the greater scheme of things. The PayPal fee of 3% is even more favorable because your payment is instant as a seller and you are protected as a buyer.
richhotrain It is a good post, and let me add some comments of my own. The notion of what I call "silent maximums" escapes many casual users of eBay. You can often spot a bidder placing a silent maximum even though the amount is not apparent. Let's say that the higher bidder at some point in the auction is identified as e***8. This is the method eBay uses to conceal identities. e***8 is the high bidder at $102.50 for an item. All of a sudden, another bid is indicated and it is e***8 bidding against himself. But the high bid still shows at $102.50. What e***8 has done is place a "silent maximum", say $125.00. Now, you decide to bid $110.00 to seize the lead, but e***8 remains the high bidder at $112.50, the next incremental bid at that price point. Given your determination to win the auction, you bid $150.00. You are now the high bidder at $127.50. Perhaps a bit confusing until you become more familiar with the bidding process. Let's also remember that eBay is really not feebay or fleabay or evilbay or whatever. Where else can you find a nationwide, a worldwide audience, of interested buyers? And the 10% eBay fee is a pittance in the greater scheme of things. The PayPal fee of 3% is even more favorable because your payment is instant as a seller and you are protected as a buyer. Rich
But Rich, those who think Ebay fees are too high remember when they were much lower......kind of like Photobucket.........
I have bought and sold on Ebay for years, I agree it works perfectly and the fees are very reasonable for what they provide.
BUT, I have been in business for myself most of my life, so I guess I understand the value of their services.....
richhotrainThe notion of what I call "silent maximums" escapes many casual users of eBay. You can often spot a bidder placing a silent maximum even though the amount is not apparent. Let's say that the higher bidder at some point in the auction is identified as e***8. This is the method eBay uses to conceal identities. e***8 is the high bidder at $102.50 for an item. All of a sudden, another bid is indicated and it is e***8 bidding against himself. But the high bid still shows at $102.50. What e***8 has done is place a "silent maximum", say $125.00. Now, you decide to bid $110.00 to seize the lead, but e***8 remains the high bidder at $112.50, the next incremental bid at that price point. Given your determination to win the auction, you bid $150.00. You are now the high bidder at $127.50. Perhaps a bit confusing until you become more familiar with the bidding process.
So there you have it. Add in the secret reserve and who knows what else and what you have is a tricky system that the average person should just avoid.
Years ago I was at a live auction and when an item didn't get a high enough bid the auctioneer announced they were not going to sell it at that price and pulled it. I immediately got up and left - never went back.
Likewise I don't even look at eBay anymore.
First off I need to say I have never participated in eBay whatsoever, as buyer or seller. I've also never seen a single episode of The Simpsons, but that's another matter . . .
Are the auctions on eBay final absolute auctions? That is, is the highest bid the winning bid whatever it is? And is the seller required to delivered the goods after bidding is over no matter the outcome? What if the winning bid is a lot lower than the seller wanted or estimated? Can the seller refuse to deliver (and still maintain a relationship with eBay)?
In the OP's situation . . . was a minimum starting bid posted? Have bids starting coming in, and what range are they coming in at? $1.00? $50.00? $475.00?
As stated elsewhere, $475 is not a ridiculous offer. A little low maybe, but not particularly insulting. I'd be curious to see what other activity has occured regarding this particular item.
Robert
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