ATLANTIC CENTRAL But Rich, those who think Ebay fees are too high remember when they were much lower......kind of like Photobucket......... I have bought and sold on Ebay for years, I agree it works perfectly and the fees are very reasonable for what they provide. BUT, I have been in business for myself most of my life, so I guess I understand the value of their services..... Sheldon
But Rich, those who think Ebay fees are too high remember when they were much lower......kind of like Photobucket.........
I have bought and sold on Ebay for years, I agree it works perfectly and the fees are very reasonable for what they provide.
BUT, I have been in business for myself most of my life, so I guess I understand the value of their services.....
Sheldon
Rich
Alton Junction
IRONROOSTER richhotrain The notion of what I call "silent maximums" escapes many casual users of eBay. You can often spot a bidder placing a silent maximum even though the amount is not apparent. Let's say that the higher bidder at some point in the auction is identified as e***8. This is the method eBay uses to conceal identities. e***8 is the high bidder at $102.50 for an item. All of a sudden, another bid is indicated and it is e***8 bidding against himself. But the high bid still shows at $102.50. What e***8 has done is place a "silent maximum", say $125.00. Now, you decide to bid $110.00 to seize the lead, but e***8 remains the high bidder at $112.50, the next incremental bid at that price point. Given your determination to win the auction, you bid $150.00. You are now the high bidder at $127.50. Perhaps a bit confusing until you become more familiar with the bidding process. So there you have it. Add in the secret reserve and who knows what else and what you have is a tricky system that the average person should just avoid. Years ago I was at a live auction and when an item didn't get a high enough bid the auctioneer announced they were not going to sell it at that price and pulled it. I immediately got up and left - never went back. Likewise I don't even look at eBay anymore. Paul
richhotrain The notion of what I call "silent maximums" escapes many casual users of eBay. You can often spot a bidder placing a silent maximum even though the amount is not apparent. Let's say that the higher bidder at some point in the auction is identified as e***8. This is the method eBay uses to conceal identities. e***8 is the high bidder at $102.50 for an item. All of a sudden, another bid is indicated and it is e***8 bidding against himself. But the high bid still shows at $102.50. What e***8 has done is place a "silent maximum", say $125.00. Now, you decide to bid $110.00 to seize the lead, but e***8 remains the high bidder at $112.50, the next incremental bid at that price point. Given your determination to win the auction, you bid $150.00. You are now the high bidder at $127.50. Perhaps a bit confusing until you become more familiar with the bidding process.
So there you have it. Add in the secret reserve and who knows what else and what you have is a tricky system that the average person should just avoid.
Years ago I was at a live auction and when an item didn't get a high enough bid the auctioneer announced they were not going to sell it at that price and pulled it. I immediately got up and left - never went back.
Likewise I don't even look at eBay anymore.
Paul
Paul, why is it "tricky"?
It's simple, as explained above.
The seller lists an item at a starting bid of $20.
You are willing to pay $100, you bid $100.
If no one else bids you get the item for $20.
If someone else bids $80, you still win at $85.
If someone else bids $110 they win unless you increase your bid in time.
You can incease your maximum at any time, but what you pay if you win is still controlled by the next higher bidder.
You see the $110 bid and decide to increase your bid to $200
No one else bids, you win at $115.
A reserve simply rasies the starting point but is not published, so in the example above a $50 reserve would have rasied your opening price to $50 rather than $20, after that the process is the same.
IRONROOSTER So there you have it. Add in the secret reserve and who knows what else and what you have is a tricky system that the average person should just avoid. Years ago I was at a live auction and when an item didn't get a high enough bid the auctioneer announced they were not going to sell it at that price and pulled it. I immediately got up and left - never went back. Likewise I don't even look at eBay anymore. Paul
I say this not in defense of eBay but rather because it is the fairest way to conduct a remote auction when all the bidders (or their proxies) are not in the same room. It is a highly efficient and, for thay matter, fair way to conduct an Internet auction of this type.
It is not a "tricky" system if potential bidders take the time to read and understand the rules. I have been both a buyer and a seller and I can honestly say that eBay auctions are effective, fair, and rewarding to both sides.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL IRONROOSTER richhotrain The notion of what I call "silent maximums" escapes many casual users of eBay. You can often spot a bidder placing a silent maximum even though the amount is not apparent. Let's say that the higher bidder at some point in the auction is identified as e***8. This is the method eBay uses to conceal identities. e***8 is the high bidder at $102.50 for an item. All of a sudden, another bid is indicated and it is e***8 bidding against himself. But the high bid still shows at $102.50. What e***8 has done is place a "silent maximum", say $125.00. Now, you decide to bid $110.00 to seize the lead, but e***8 remains the high bidder at $112.50, the next incremental bid at that price point. Given your determination to win the auction, you bid $150.00. You are now the high bidder at $127.50. Perhaps a bit confusing until you become more familiar with the bidding process. So there you have it. Add in the secret reserve and who knows what else and what you have is a tricky system that the average person should just avoid. Years ago I was at a live auction and when an item didn't get a high enough bid the auctioneer announced they were not going to sell it at that price and pulled it. I immediately got up and left - never went back. Likewise I don't even look at eBay anymore. Paul Paul, why is it "tricky"? It's simple, as explained above. The seller lists an item at a starting bid of $20. You are willing to pay $100, you bid $100. If no one else bids you get the item for $20. If someone else bids $80, you still win at $85. If someone else bids $110 they win unless you increase your bid in time. You can incease your maximum at any time, but what you pay if you win is still controlled by the next higher bidder. You see the $110 bid and decide to increase your bid to $200 No one else bids, you win at $115. A reserve simply rasies the starting point but is not published, so in the example above a $50 reserve would have rasied your opening price to $50 rather than $20, after that the process is the same. Sheldon
A smart way to approach an eBay auction is to review the bids already made and assume that the current high bidder has actually placed a bid higher than that posted - - - my so-called "silent reserve".
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL But Rich, those who think Ebay fees are too high remember when they were much lower......kind of like Photobucket......... I have bought and sold on Ebay for years, I agree it works perfectly and the fees are very reasonable for what they provide. BUT, I have been in business for myself most of my life, so I guess I understand the value of their services..... Sheldon Let me say this in reply. If you are looking to sell some used model railroading stuff, or used golf clubs as I often do, or tropical fish supplies as I have done in the past, or "collectibles" like Department 56 ceramic houses we have sold off over the years, a combined fee of 13% for eBay and PayPal seems quite reasonable, at least to me, and to many, many others, I suspect. At some point, i suppose these fees could become unduly high. Each seller has to make his or her own decision about when the fees become confiscatory. Until then, show me a better way to sell an item than eBay. Rich
Let me say this in reply. If you are looking to sell some used model railroading stuff, or used golf clubs as I often do, or tropical fish supplies as I have done in the past, or "collectibles" like Department 56 ceramic houses we have sold off over the years, a combined fee of 13% for eBay and PayPal seems quite reasonable, at least to me, and to many, many others, I suspect. At some point, i suppose these fees could become unduly high. Each seller has to make his or her own decision about when the fees become confiscatory. Until then, show me a better way to sell an item than eBay.
Even if you are trying to make real money on Ebay, no one can provide for themselves an infrastructure like Ebay and PayPal for 13% - all businesses have overhead, that's why hobby shops need to make 30% or 40% gross margin, 13% is a deal.
When I bid on Ebay, I always "set it and forget it", that is I bid the highest I am willing to pay and seldom watch the bidding at the close - either I win or I don't.
And I buy and sell a lot with "Buy It Now".
My tractor parts sales were almost always "Buy It Now", and never with "Make Offer".
Thousands of dollars every year for about five years, just scaled it back some last year, seemed to have run its course for a while. Only have a few items up now.
ROBERT PETRICK Are the auctions on eBay final absolute auctions? That is, is the highest bid the winning bid whatever it is? And is the seller required to delivered the goods after bidding is over no matter the outcome? What if the winning bid is a lot lower than the seller wanted or estimated? Can the seller refuse to deliver (and still maintain a relationship with eBay)?
Are the auctions on eBay final absolute auctions? That is, is the highest bid the winning bid whatever it is? And is the seller required to delivered the goods after bidding is over no matter the outcome? What if the winning bid is a lot lower than the seller wanted or estimated? Can the seller refuse to deliver (and still maintain a relationship with eBay)?
eBay does provide for specific, limited exceptions whereby a party to an auction can renege, and those exceptions are clearly posted.
As a buyer, I have never failed to receive the item and as described.
As a seller, I only once had a buyer renege and that was some clown from overseas who claimed last minute buyer's remorse. I didn't care about that because I had explicitly ruled out overseas sales. What hurt there is that none of the serious bidders were willing to step up and complete the transaction as they were entitled to do because they probably suspected a shill trying to force up the bidding price.
I use to bid by sitting my bid at the price I was willing to pay and let the chips fall where they may. I notice 99% of the time I was out bid in the last few seconds even though my bid was reasonable and at or slightly above the going use prices.
The funny part around two months later I bought the same road name car at $9.99 BIN and that was at my old high bid.
I seldom bid any more.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Robert Petrick wrote:
Yes ebay auctions are SUPPOSED to be Final and Binding, but I have seen listings where I Highly suspected the seller was not Happy with the winning bid, and the item was suddenly at auction end "No Longer Available". There ARE some retail stores that list on ebay items on their shelves for greater market coverage, and could sell an item before it is bid on/BIN option purchased. in the past ebay was much stricter about once an item has recieved a bid it MUST be available to deliver, but they don't seem to enforce this rule as stringently as in the past.
I have had items "No Longer Available" after winning with a low bid, then a week or two later, see the same item relisted, a message to ebay didn't have any results. I have also recieved "Second Chance" offers where the winning bidder reneged on the deal. Unfortunately, the second chance is at your maximum bid, NOT the next increment above the bidder below you, as it should be, so I have accepted some second chances and declined others.
As far as the Minimum reserve option, I wish that ebay would discontinue that option, and just have the sellers set their minimum opening bid openly, the end result is the same, but you know whether you even need to bid at all or not, but the sellers want the activity. I KNOW how the minimum reserve works and ACCEPT it, so I just live with it.
If a buyer(or seller) properly researches and UNDERSTANDS how ebay works, there is nothing Secretive, or Confusing about it, I personally LIKE the way it is organized.
I understand the "set it, and Forget it" method many use, and I will do that as close to auction end as I can, if I wont be able to bid at the end. If I expect to be available at auction end I will put in my True Maximum bid mere seconds before auction end, and either get the item at a price I am comfortable with, or it sold for more than it was worth to me. "Sniping" can keep the price lower by not having someone like LW&SF Nickle and Diming it up. If you are WILLING to PAY $100, put in your bid for $100. Ebay auctions have a SET END TIME, whoever bids the highest at that time WINS, that is how it should be in MY Opinion, again I LIKE being able to bid my MAXIMUM, without necessarially being REQUIRED to pay my maximum bid. If I am willing to PAY $100, but the next highest bidder is only willing to pay$75, I win it for $76. In reality this IS how a "REAL" auction works, except that you don't disclose your True maximum bid to the auctioneer ahead of time, it is much more efficient, and the end is the same, the winner wins by the next higher increment than the second highest bidder.
Dash.com an ebay competitor does extend the auction by, I believe 10 minutes after each new bid, near auction end, resulting in long delays of the auction ending for what often ends up being relatively minor price increases, I feel ebay's system is much Superior, put in your max bid and at XX:XX time the highest bidder wins, DONE.
Ebay has such a wide variety of products it is unbelievable, probably 90+% of my purchases have been train related, but just last night, I bought a New chainsaw on a BIN listing.
The Husqvarna 3120XP is Husky's Biggest, Badddest saw they build, 119cc 8HP chainsaw, normal MSRP is $1799.95 without bar and chain, I had been looking at the 395XP (94cc) with 36" bar at $1279.95. An ebay seller had the 3120 at $1399. + $89 shipping, the seller had a 100% feedback rating with 3104 sales, the kind of seller I look for, then PayPal(That HORRIBLE organization) had their PPCredit at 0% for 24 months, that did it, I pulled the trigger, $1,488 for 2 years INTREST FREE. I have been thinking about getting an Alaskan Mill, for making tables, the 3120 is THE saw for that, so maybe a bit large for my normal firewood cutting (we do cut larger than most logs here on Mt. Hood, often 28+") my new saw will handle firewood and milling with ease. Unlike model railroding where buyers EXPECT Large discounts, the Quality power tool market, is very tight, most stores AT MSRP, and even online sellers VERY close to it, and shipping will often put online sellers at, near or sometimes over MSRP. I prefer to buy local when I can, and within a reasonable amount over online prices, but at $311.95 off, I couldn't pass up that deal, and shipped direct to my door, I LOVE ebay, but then, I understand HOW it Works, and how to use it, ebay and even on line aren't always the BEST options, but they are GREAT options to HAVE.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
You make my case for me.
Thanks
richhotrain IRONROOSTER So there you have it. Add in the secret reserve and who knows what else and what you have is a tricky system that the average person should just avoid. Years ago I was at a live auction and when an item didn't get a high enough bid the auctioneer announced they were not going to sell it at that price and pulled it. I immediately got up and left - never went back. Likewise I don't even look at eBay anymore. Paul I used the word "silent', not "secret", because no one but you as a bidder knows the maximum amount that you are willing to pay unless and until someone outbids you. I say this not in defense of eBay but rather because it is the fairest way to conduct a remote auction when all the bidders (or their proxies) are not in the same room. It is a highly efficient and, for thay matter, fair way to conduct an Internet auction of this type. It is not a "tricky" system if potential bidders take the time to read and understand the rules. I have been both a buyer and a seller and I can honestly say that eBay auctions are effective, fair, and rewarding to both sides. Rich
I used the word "silent', not "secret", because no one but you as a bidder knows the maximum amount that you are willing to pay unless and until someone outbids you.
I used secret in reference to the reserve price the seller sets. It's secret because you the bidder don't know what it is. Frankly, the auction should start at that minimum price. I personally think the secret reserve is less than honest.
IRONROOSTER ATLANTIC CENTRAL IRONROOSTER richhotrain The notion of what I call "silent maximums" escapes many casual users of eBay. You can often spot a bidder placing a silent maximum even though the amount is not apparent. Let's say that the higher bidder at some point in the auction is identified as e***8. This is the method eBay uses to conceal identities. e***8 is the high bidder at $102.50 for an item. All of a sudden, another bid is indicated and it is e***8 bidding against himself. But the high bid still shows at $102.50. What e***8 has done is place a "silent maximum", say $125.00. Now, you decide to bid $110.00 to seize the lead, but e***8 remains the high bidder at $112.50, the next incremental bid at that price point. Given your determination to win the auction, you bid $150.00. You are now the high bidder at $127.50. Perhaps a bit confusing until you become more familiar with the bidding process. So there you have it. Add in the secret reserve and who knows what else and what you have is a tricky system that the average person should just avoid. Years ago I was at a live auction and when an item didn't get a high enough bid the auctioneer announced they were not going to sell it at that price and pulled it. I immediately got up and left - never went back. Likewise I don't even look at eBay anymore. Paul Paul, why is it "tricky"? It's simple, as explained above. The seller lists an item at a starting bid of $20. You are willing to pay $100, you bid $100. If no one else bids you get the item for $20. If someone else bids $80, you still win at $85. If someone else bids $110 they win unless you increase your bid in time. You can incease your maximum at any time, but what you pay if you win is still controlled by the next higher bidder. You see the $110 bid and decide to increase your bid to $200 No one else bids, you win at $115. A reserve simply rasies the starting point but is not published, so in the example above a $50 reserve would have rasied your opening price to $50 rather than $20, after that the process is the same. Sheldon You make my case for me. Thanks Paul
Paul, it really isn't all that complicated or confusing, and it does favor the buyer to a degree. The buyer can decide that the item is worth $100 to THEM, and set their bid at $100, if the second highest bidder only feels it is worth $75 to THEM, then the buyer who values it at $100, will only PAY $76(I think that $1 is the incremental bid, below $100)so even though you BID $100, you only PAY $76, what is there for a buyer to complain about with THAT?
It really isn't any different than a "LIVE, or REAL" auction in that each bidder decides what the item is worth to THEM, and the final price is whatever the incremental increase is above the SECOND HIGHEST bidders highest bid, the same in a REAL or Live auction, except with ebay each bidder has disclosed their maximum bid to the auctioneer ahead of closing, but the winning bid is still set by the second highest bid, no effective difference, just in the method of getting there.
As far as the "Reserve Price" as I said earlier, I don't care for it, and AGREE, that the seller SHOULD just set their opening bid at their "Reserve" price, but there is nothing "dishonest" about it, it is a common thing in the auction business. One of the reasons for using a "Hidden Reserve Price" is because it generates activity, it has been shown that the more bids placed, the higher the final price. The seller wants to generate activity/interest in the item. Bidders after having placed a bid will often be determined to "Win" and will often get into bidding wars, this is why many sellers start even expensive items at 99 cents,to get bidders interested and involved, in most cases it works. Two identical items, one with a .99 starting bid, and another with a $50 starting bid, 99% of the time, the listing with the .99 cent starting bid will sell for a significantly HIGHER Final price than the identical item with the higher starting bid, of course the seller takes a risk using that method, but statistically, it nets the seller a higher final price. ebay doesn't want to end the reserve option, because they charge the seller a fee, for seting a reserve price, and some sellers wont sell without a reserve, and don't seem to understand that a minimum opening bid price is essentially the same thing.
End of the day, ebay is still THE BEST venue out there for buying and selling, Ever participate in a Stout Auction? I believe that their BUYER'S PREMIUM is about 18% charged to the BUYER, all of ebays fees, which are LOWER, are born by the SELLER, I am still trying to figure out WHY there is so much HATE for ebay, especially by buyers, evidently many just aren't smart enough to think it all the way through.
Especially in 3 Rail O Gauge, ebay has caused the prices of many "Hard to Find" items to come down. With ebay, a buyer can now search a WORLDWIDE site for items, and now many "HTF" items are NOT Hard to Find any more, causing the supply to be greater, and the demand hasn't increased as much as the supply, which is great for the buyers, but not as bad for the sellers as it would seem, yes the values HAVE gone DOWN, but it is now much easier to sell an item, if a buyer isn't able to FIND the item, it wont sell at ANY price.
This maybe somewhat of the unanswerable question. I cannot define to you what is reasonable. I can, however, define to me what is reasonable and what is not. Expecting someone else to cover your costs for a hobby item (that you chose to purchase) including add ons such as taxes, shipping ebay fees, etc., is not reasonable. I am sorry if this sounds harsh. That is not my intention. I am only trying to be open and honest about this. If I go to the car dealer on Saturday and purchase a new car and then sell it on Monday, I am not going to recoup my money and whatever I paid for gas. Once again, I apologize if this is upsetting to you. Talking about the features and benefits of the locomotive and explaining why you think your stated price is fair is to me a reasonable approach to getting the most from your buyer(s). Telling them that you expect them to guarantee a profit would not seem reasonable to me. Just my thoughts. Good luck with your auction.
Old Fat Robert
As to the original question of what is REASONABLE, in MY OPINION, yes $750 is UNREASONABLE to expect if it is $800-850, is that New MSRP?
For ME, I wont pay much over 65% of MSRP for a USED item with NO WARRANTY, if it is NOT being sold by an AUTHORIZED DEALER NIB, it IS USED, even if never removed from the box(so the seller says, ANY seller not just You personally) If I am taking the risk of possible repairs without a full warranty, for ME, around 65% is my comfort zone, if that is less than a seller will accept, then no deal, it's a TOY and my life will go on without life altering effects.
so if it is an $850 locomotive then to ME, about $510 would be MY max, so I don't think that an offer of $475 is INSULTINGLY LOW, you always have the option of giving a counter offer, which is likely what the buyer expected, or you can Politely decline. There is NO Reason to take offense, or reply in a Rude manner in MY OPINION. Offering $75 on an $850 locomotive, I wouldn't fault you for simply not replying.
What an item is worth to you, and what it is worth to someone else may not be the same number, but unless it is a TRULY insulting offer of less than %25 of value, there is no reason to take offense, and usually there is NO reason for a Rude reply, rather than just not replying at all.
Of course those are just MY OPINIONS, YMMV
challenger3980As far as the "Reserve Price" as I said earlier, I don't care for it, and AGREE, that the seller SHOULD just set their opening bid at their "Reserve" price, but there is nothing "dishonest" about it, it is a common thing in the auction business. One of the reasons for using a "Hidden Reserve Price" is because it generates activity, it has been shown that the more bids placed, the higher the final price. The seller wants to generate activity/interest in the item. Bidders after having placed a bid will often be determined to "Win" and will often get into bidding wars, this is why many sellers start even expensive items at 99 cents,to get bidders interested and involved, in most cases it works. Two identical items, one with a .99 starting bid, and another with a $50 starting bid, 99% of the time, the listing with the .99 cent starting bid will sell for a significantly HIGHER Final price than the identical item with the higher starting bid,
As you describe it, it is a tactic for getting people to pay more for an item than they otherwise would. The idea being that the desire to "win" outweighs their common sense. Instead of making a rational decision on the price to pay, they pay more than they normally would because of the emotion. If getting people to do this strikes you as an honest way to do business, then we'll just have to disagree on what honesty in business is.
So again, I think most folks ought to just avoid eBay.
Really? How else would you propose it should work? Seems really fair to me. I have made money selling, I have found great deals buying.
Being a long term Ebayer, I've been following this thread with interest. My "disclaimer" is that I am very much pro Ebay (and PayPal).....
That said, Ebay and PayPal are businesses - with the goal of making a profit for their owners/investors. And this comes down to two primary points......
- They are free to charge whatever they like. It is their business and they are doing the same thing any of us would do if it was our business.
- If you have a problem with Ebay, go elsewhere to buy or sell. There are a number of other avenues, so if Ebay ruffles your feathers, take your trade somewhere else.
Have to add to Sheldon's earlier comment. You won't sell anything, no matter the price, if there is no buyer out there that sees your item and bids on it.
Some times there will be a plethora of potential buyers/bidders, and other times there will be none. It is a crapshoot for sure, but if you start your item at the minimum you will accept, you will only be out the listing fees.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Paul, there is nothing "Dishonest" about it, if people let their emotion over rule their common sense, well that is their own doing. a Buyer should decide what their maximum price is for an item, and not exceed that. again nothing secretive or confusing (or dishonest) about that, all the #'s are right there on the screen, each buyer is (or SHOULD be) responsible for deterimining what is a fair price for an item for them, and sticking to it, and that is TRUE for ALL aspects of Life not just ebay.
It is no different than the 99 cent game on most consumer items, $12.99 is a LOT LESS than $13.00, in many peoples minds, heck gas stations even take that to the TENTH of a PENNY on fuel prices, that has been accepted for MANY, MANY years, just the way it is, a FACT of LIFE.
Maybe not dishonest, but have you ever bought a New or late model used car?
The Salesperson will RARELY discuss the ACTUAL PRICE of the vehicle with you. First they find out how much you want to PAY PER MONTH on the car payment. then they will try to help you find a vehicle, Surprisingly it is usually about $50/month MORE than you Hope to pay, but "Hey, You can Manage an extra $50/month for the car that YOU REALLY WANT, Right?" The salespeople will figure the price of the vehicle Backwards from what they can get you to pay each month, and how many monthes long a term they can talk you into.
A Smart car buyer, will pick the vehicle that best suits their needs, and discuss the PRICE of the Vehicle, THEN discuss interest rates, monthly payments and length of term, BASED on the AGREED PRICE of the vehicle, but many fall into that trap, because the average person probably buys a new vehicle every 7-10 years, so it is not something they are very familiar with doing.
Also if you are trading in a used vehicle, don't even bring that into the negotiating (the salesperson will usually ask about that early) until AFTER the price of the new vehicle has been agreed to, THEN negotiate the trade in value of your used vehicle, there all kinds of ways for the salespeople to work the #'s in their favor, it is up to the buyer, to keep control of the negotiating process, but the salespeople do this for a living and are VERY GOOD at steering the negotiating their way. It takes a very Savy buyer to get the best deal possible buying a vehicle, it makes ebay look like a second grade class.
I don't think that MOST people should avoid ebay, it is an EXCELLENT source for finding a wide variety of items, often at very good prices. A buyer SHOULD learn about how the system works, but again that is true for most facets of Life, not just ebay, the more educated you are about any subject, the better the choices you can make on that subject.
Maybe ebay isn't a good option for you, if you're not comfortable with how the system works, but for MANY, MANY of us it is an Excellent resource, for many things.
Really, I shouldn't be trying to teach/convince you and others about the advantages of ebay, I SHOULD be DISHONEST, and falsely AGREE with you about how HORRIBLE ebay (and PayPal, I hate that 0% 24 month $1488 loan) are, the fewer people bidding on ebay the better for me, less likely to increase the price on something that I might bid on, so Please remember just how Horrible, Confusing and Dishonest ebay and PayPal are, and DON'T go there or Bid on anything,
Thank You,
challenger3980You obviously don't understand how ebay works. Just bid $5.00 MORE than you are willing to pay, and you wont be disappointed by getting out bid at the last second.
I’m pretty sure that I understand exactly how eBay works. I have been buying and selling on it for almost 20 years. And I have 100% feedback. You don’t understand that people can change their mind. If I think and item is worth $100 and then I see that someone else thinks that it is worth $110 who the heck are you to say that I can’t change my mind and think that the item is now worth $120 to me??? The true value of an item is whatever someone is willing to pay. Maybe I want it more than I wanted it before once I saw that someone else wanted it. Seeing other people wanting an item often makes people want it more. Jump on the bandwagon. Everyone is buying it… you should too. Over 1 million served. EBay is a silent auction. Silent auctions suck! They suck for the seller because it stops bidding wars where the price can skyrocket benefiting both the seller and eBay. It sucks for buyers who don’t get to buy the item they wanted after waiting a week. It’s bad customer service to not make your buyers happy and it is bad for shareholders because it is not maximizing profits. And of course it is bad for the sellers who don’t get the maximum price that their item might be worth. I auctioned off jewelry on television for several years and our customers were always given a chance to increase their bids. Nobody ever got snipped and all of our customers where happy because of it. I’m sure that some of them paid more than they originally thought they were willing to pay but changed their mind as the auction went along. As far as fees, when I sell items on our website we don’t have to pay the eBay fee which is a lot higher than the cost of our web hosting. We only pay the Paypal fee which can be cheaper than having your own merchant account since there is no monthly minimum. Ebay is not always the best place to buy either. I often see prices higher on eBay than on other websites for new items. Walthers and Train World are two model train stores that come to mind.
It is not dishonests to lowball the starting bid. The buyers freely decide what they are willing to pay. Buyer Beware. Don't let your desire to win overcome your common sense.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Lone Wolf and Santa Fe wrote:
You don’t understand that people can change their mind. If I think and item is worth $100 and then I see that someone else thinks that it is worth $110 who the heck are you to say that I can’t change my mind and think that the item is now worth $120 to me??? The true value of an item is whatever someone is willing to pay. Maybe I want it more than I wanted it before once I saw that someone else wanted it. Seeing other people wanting an item often makes people want it more. Jump on the bandwagon. Everyone is buying it… you should too. Over 1 million served. EBay is a silent auction. Silent auctions suck! They suck for the seller because it stops bidding wars where the price can skyrocket benefiting both the seller and eBay. It sucks for buyers who don’t get to buy the item they wanted after waiting a week. It’s bad customer service to not make your buyers happy and it is bad for shareholders because it is not maximizing profits. And of course it is bad for the sellers who don’t get the maximum price that their item might be worth.
I never said that you couldn't change your mind, but your post just reaffirms what Paul and I have been discussing, a buyer should determine what the true maximum for an item is for them, and stick to it. But as I told Paul, there is nothing dishonest about it from the sellers participation, you are free to adjust your bid (Upwards) at any time before the auction ends. If you want it more because Johnny bid more than you, that is so Second Grade. Determine what it is TRULY WORTH TO YOU and bid accordingly, if you enter your TRUE MAXIMUM bid then, you wont be disappointed if you don't win the item, because it sold for more than you (Thought you) wanted to pay for it. It you were disappointed that you didn't Win, then next time Bid more than you think you want to pay.
You claim to understand how it works, but still complain if you don't win, you KNOW exactly win the auction will end, to the SECOND, BID THE MOST that you are WILLING to Pay, if you don't win, someone else just wanted it more than you did, as you should know, you can almost GAURANTEE that you will win any auction by simply bidding a ridiculously high amount, you probably wont pay that amount, but you better be prepared to pay what the winning bid is, there is no reason not to win any auction that you bid on, it is simply a matter of placing a high enough bid.
I NEVER said that ebay is ALWAYS the BEST place to buy anything, but it IS an EXCELLENT resource for buying MANY things for MANY users.
Sorry to make this personal, it wasn't meant to be, but seriously GROW UP, and get out of Mommy's basement, there really isn't anything sold on ebay that justifies as much concern as many seem to find, you're talking about TOY TRAINS for crying out loud. And YES, even SCALE MODEL TRAINS are TOYS, even if some can't accept that, They are NOT Life essential Items Like Food, Water and Shelter, they are not tools, the only things that they produce are Smiles and Frustration in ever varying amounts, THEY ARE TOYS. Even if they are EXPENSIVE well detailed scale models of a particular protoytpe, they are TOYS, though some wont accept that.
Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Ebay is not always the best place to buy either. I often see prices higher on eBay than on other websites for new items. Walthers and Train World are two model train stores that come to mind.
Agree. Before buying an item on EBAY, I search the web to see if I can get it elswhere at lower costs. Don't forget to take into account shipping and taxes.
I mainly buy used books on EBAY. I've actually bought a Car and Locomotive Cyclopedia from a "Goodwill Store" for a total cost of less than $10.
richhotrainThe notion of what I call "silent maximums" escapes many casual users of eBay.
.
When someone auto-outbids me on what I really want, I have become VERY GOOD at sneak-bidding up to HIS maximum bid. If you stop me from getting what I want... I will make you pay for it. Spiteful losers like me are something to consider when putting in your "silent maximum" amount.
Worst case scenario if I guess wrong: I get something I really want for a little more than I wanted to pay, no problem!
Think about that before bidding against "king64ramone" (I know eBay hides my name now). I think I usually show up as "i***n(2024)".
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 richhotrain The notion of what I call "silent maximums" escapes many casual users of eBay. . When someone auto-outbids me on what I really want, I have become VERY GOOD at sneak-bidding up to HIS maximum bid. If you stop me from getting what I want... I will make you pay for it. Spiteful losers like me are something to consider when putting in your "silent maximum" amount. . Worst case scenario if I guess wrong: I get something I really want for a little more than I wanted to pay, no problem! . Think about that before bidding against "king64ramone" (I know eBay hides my name now). I think I usually show up as "i***n(2024)". . -Kevin .
richhotrain The notion of what I call "silent maximums" escapes many casual users of eBay.
Why do you take it personally?
This is a perfect example of WHY, I determine what my Maximum bid is, then hit submit, 3 seconds before the auction end. If someone outbids me at that point, OH WELL, I bid as much as I was comfortable paying for it, someone else wanted it more than I did, it has never been a matter of Life or Death when I have bid on an ebay auction. Yep there have been times that I wish that I had won, a few that I wished I had bid a bit higher, but I know how the system works, a nd I can live with that, some can't figure it out, I wish that getting outbid on ebay was something that rated high enough in my life to worry about, but unfortunately, I have enough more important concerns in my life, that ebay isn't on that list.
This is not an accurate way to describe the process and is fueling the arguments of those who are looking for some sneaky conspiracy.
It is a proxy bid. Think of sending a friend to an auction to buy an item for you. You tell him he is authorized to pay up to $200. If the others (or their proxies) stop bidding before $200, you get the item. If they bid more, you don't. It's as simple as that.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
carl425 richhotrain The notion of what I call "silent maximums" escapes many casual users of eBay. This is not an accurate way to describe the process and is fueling the arguments of those who are looking for some sneaky conspiracy. It is a proxy bid. Think of sending a friend to an auction to buy an item for you. You tell him he is authorized to pay up to $200. If the others (or their proxies) stop bidding before $200, you get the item. If they bid more, you don't. It's as simple as that.
Give that Man a Cigar!!!
IRONROOSTER So again, I think most folks ought to just avoid eBay. Paul
Without eBay, what would I do with all my old golf clubs, aquariums, unwanted HO scale items, Department 56 ceramic houses? Put an ad in my local newspaper?
Don't blame me, Carl, for this thread. The term "silent maxium" is one that I consider for myself. It is my silent maximum.
But, I do agree with you that it is a form of proxy bidding in the absence of bidders actually being in the same physical room. I believe that I used that term in a previous reply.
As far as fueling the arguments of those who are looking for some sneaky conspiracy, I cannot help them cope with their problem. Potential bidders simply need to know and understand how the eBay bidding system works. It is all clearly spelled out in the written rules on the eBay website.
SeeYou190 richhotrain The notion of what I call "silent maximums" escapes many casual users of eBay.. When someone auto-outbids me on what I really want, I have become VERY GOOD at sneak-bidding up to HIS maximum bid. If you stop me from getting what I want... I will make you pay for it. Spiteful losers like me are something to consider when putting in your "silent maximum" amount.. Worst case scenario if I guess wrong: I get something I really want for a little more than I wanted to pay, no problem!. Think about that before bidding against "king64ramone" (I know eBay hides my name now). I think I usually show up as "i***n(2024)".. -Kevin
richhotrain The notion of what I call "silent maximums" escapes many casual users of eBay..
When someone auto-outbids me on what I really want, I have become VERY GOOD at sneak-bidding up to HIS maximum bid. If you stop me from getting what I want... I will make you pay for it. Spiteful losers like me are something to consider when putting in your "silent maximum" amount..
Worst case scenario if I guess wrong: I get something I really want for a little more than I wanted to pay, no problem!.
Think about that before bidding against "king64ramone" (I know eBay hides my name now). I think I usually show up as "i***n(2024)"..
Think about what you are saying and what you are doing.
You place a bid for $100.00 and another bidder outbids you at $102.50 (the next incremental bid). Now, you didn't want to pay more than $100.00, so now you are ticked at the anonymous guy who outbid you. So much so that in your spite, you bid $105.00, but his silent maximum keeps him in the lead at $107.50. Now you are rabid with spite so you bid $125.00 but, again, you are outbid at $127.50. You now come to your senses and realize that you do not want to pay $130.00 for the item, so you let your anonymous enemy win at $127.50. You showed him. He coulda had the item at $102.50, but you made him pay $127.50. Think he cares? Think he even knows of your diabolical plan? How much time do you spend in this endeavor?
Rich,
You just detailed the excitement and the glory and the agony of defeat contained in the auction sale format. To some of us, its a large charge, and frankly somewhat addictive. Nice job!