Hi gang:
I know this question has been asked before but I'm going to ask it again. (You all know how well the search engine works!).
My club has been approached by the daughter of a life long model railroader who passed away last fall. He has left behind a huge collection, and she is not willing to sell it to a dealer for pennies on the dollar. There is some brass, tons of Athearn BB and similar, and lots of just plain junk. Our club feels obligated to help her out because he hosted the club in his basement for many, many years.
What I need is a list of web sites where we can find out the value of what he had. EBay is an obvious source, as is HOSeeker, and BrassTrains.com. Are there any other sites that come to mind?
Thanks,
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
The platforms you have mentioned are OK for getting a rough idea on what the value for these items is. In the end, the value is what someone is willing to pay, which will differ considerably from what you see advertized in the likes of Ebay.
Just a few remarks on how to sell this collection in the best way:
Never forget, that nothing is really rare and even our prized possessions are finally nothing else but toys, which have a value only to us crazy folks.
Good advice. Thanks Ulrich.
Hi,
I've bought/sold items on Ebay since it opened and found in general the prices are market comparable. Ulrich has provided some good advice and you can't go wrong following it.
I would add..... the brass and better locos should be sold separately, while the others might go better as grouped - say 4 in one auction. Cars also would be sold in groups - perhaps 6 or 8 of like roads or type. I'm looking at doing this in the fall, and will group by the amount that will fit in a USPS priority box.
There are bits and pieces that might seem to be junk but are saleable. Used trackage (not sectional or brass) is always in demand, and good power packs and DCC electronics and signals are too.
For selling on Ebay, I almost always go the auction route and start out with the least amount I would take for the item. Typically, after all the expenses, my net is about 75 percent of selling price.
Good Luck!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
For the highest price, you will need patience. You have to be willing to wait for the right price. Even putting it away for a few months and trying again later.
Of course this drags out the process, so it's a trade-off.
Paul
she is not willing to sell it to a dealer for pennies on the dollar. There is some brass, tons of Athearn BB and similar, and lots of just plain junk.
Fair enough. Brass can be established through some reference book(s) and of course Mr. Zane could probably PM you a ball park figure as an experience brass guy if you can provide make, model, condition etc.
As for the rest, Athearn blue box and junk will not be worth a great deal - probably pennies on the dollar. To squeeze the maximum out of it is going to take a lot of time and patience. I'm sure you can get more money by avoiding someone who buys the whole lot. As nice as it is to step in and help, is there someone in your club that wants to help this person to that degree? It's going to take a lot of effort and time to squeeze more money out of blue box and junk.
Or, another option is to give her guidance and leave it up to her to do the work if she wants maximum dollar for that stuff, after all, it is her that wants the most money - so it's not fair to put a BIG job on a volunteer when she reeps the benefit, which may not end up being that much honestly. Knowledge and guidance, sure, thats reasonable. Anything beyond that may be well, up to the helper and how much time they have and how charitable they are feeling.
Having been to plenty of train shows, blue box Athearn and just plain junk is in massive quantity and low demand. Principles of economics are not in favor here. Thats the reality of it.
Speaking of train shows, that may be a good option for her. Have her rent table(s) and price items based on club advise and try to sell whats left though other means after that such as Ebay, HOswap lists etc. Items will have to be priced appropriately or she'll be sitting on it a long time.
I know one person near to where I live, Dean Ebner, who passed away about 7 years ago and he had a large nice collection of mostly ATSF oriented trains. That collection includede Intermountain, Athearn Genesis, Athearn RTR, Atlas, KATO, and similar brands and all priced very attractively (e.g. RTR Intermountain box cars NIB in the $8-$12 range). Deans widow and son had several large tables at Timonium probably 5 or 6 shows spanning around 2 years before selling the majority of the collection, and it was nice stuff, not Athearn blue box and junk. Timonium normally has quite a lot of Athearn blue box and junk trains so I'd imagine that level of stuff is hard to sell much of. There isn't much demand for it.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 Timonium normally has quite a lot of Athearn blue box and junk trains so I'd imagine that level of stuff is hard to sell much of. There isn't much demand for it.
Jim,Recall I just sold my large collection of BB cars and locomotives as well as some Roundhouse cars, P2K and Atlas/Kato engines for four figures..
There is still a demand for quality used locomotives and BB and Roundhouse cars with KDs and metal wheels..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Larry, likely it depends on where you are etc. which may or may not benefit the person in question. I know what I see in the northern Virginia/Maryland area and we are literally choked with Athearn BB and junk trains (as per the original poster). Simple supply and demand economics is at play here. Lets just say it's better to set expectations realistically, and if the seller gets more, then it will be a pleasant surprise rather than a big let down. It all boils down to - are there interested buyers - sure, but how do you connect them up with the large supply of these types of items, and there lies the challenge raised by the OP.
I see Ebay being mentioned. I have not noticed if soembody mentioned sold listings.
Look at sold listings in Ebay for an idea of what prices are for specific items.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
riogrande5761Simple supply and demand economics is at play here.
Absolutely and seeing the dealer that bought mine works smaller shows and avoids the larger ones he will do well.
The area I live in is depress because we've lost a lot of high paying jobs over the past several years. A lot of folks around here works in Columbus and other areas and just can't afford fancy toys..
If I took my stuff to a Columbus or Cleveland train show dealer I would have been lucky to get three figures.
May I add.................
For the bulk of "train stuff", sales are best done in the winter months - say November thru February. True collector items will sell easily all year around.
Also, timing (actually more luck) is everything. What won't sell this week will be pounced on the next week.....and verse viceaaa.
Good point about season. Summer does tend to be slower for the hobby so fall/winter/spring may be optimal time for selling.
Timing, also a good point. I sell on the yahoo groups email lists and some times I'll advertise items over a period of months with no bite but eventually I do bites and items sell. That is the patience part.
As mentioned before, and it's a no brainer, check Ebay to get a sense of prices for items, but Ebay can sometimes show items with highly unrealistic prices so sometimes you have to take what you see with a box car full of salt and of course see what items actually sell for. I see a lot of Athearn blue box items sit and sit when there is a better quality RTR upgraded version that has been made as well.
Ultimately it's all about what buyers are looking for specifically. Someone looking for a bunch of generic freight cars will probably not be willing to pay the same as someone looking for something specific.
Heartland Division CB&QLook at sold listings in Ebay for an idea of what prices are for specific items.
GARRY has a good tip here. I use it a lot myself. To find the sold listings, search for an item. A sidebar will open up along with the results and towards its bottom there are a few boxes to click for auction outcome options. Sold will give you prices actually paid for a sold item.
There is also Completed listsings, which tell you the what happened with both Sold (prices actually paid) and listings that didn't sell along with their offered prices. This adds a dimension of what asking price is probably too high.
In both the Sold and Completed cases, simply check the box and the listings will appear in the center listing of the auctin links.
This is also a good place to determine how rare something you might offer will be. If there are no listings under Sold or Completed for an obviously desireable item, that is an indication that it might be something that is scarce or rarely comes up for auction (I think these listsings are carried for 90 days IIRC). Ypu might be able to expect more for itin a listing or perhaps it's worth doing more research t determine a suitable price and not sell something short.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
You can find the price at which similar items sold for on ebay. But that's not the same thing as selling a collection piece by piece. One big hurdle is.....it takes ALOT of time to pack and ship an item properly. I would think only the owner would want to devote that much time to sell a collection piece-by-piece. If not, then you're stuck selling the collection in big chunks. Usually, that is to a dealer or someone who will take the time to sell the items individually. The value given to the owner won't be a retail market value.
If you want a rough ballpark, Athearn BB freight cars should generally fetch 5 to 7 bucks...up to 10 to 12 bucks if they have metal wheels and knuckle couplers.
I'd sell them 3 or 4 at a time to take advantage of shipping costs. If it costs 7 bucks just to ship 1 item, the BB car want get much money.
lot of 4...starting bid of $22 plus $8 shipping. Buyer gets 4 cars at about $7.25 a piece including shipping. Seller gets to pack and ship 4 at a time.
- Douglas
Keep in mind that the current retail price of brass actually varies based upon WHO is selling it. brasstrains.com is by far the largest dealer in the world currently, and is assumed by international heavy hitter buyers as being the "most reputable". Whether that is actually true or not, I will leave to others. I have had only limited dealings with them, so can't say. They have a number of very well-healed clients that cherry pick the best stuff that comes in.
For a fact, I have a perfect 100% feedback rating on Ebay with 5.0 ratings in each selling category. I can list the exact same model for sale as brasstrains.com at the exact same price (but perhaps with "or best offer") as they have that model for. Their model may sell within one day or less if it is a high demand model (late run, made in last 10 years, produced by Sam Model Tech or Boo Rim Precision) and my model, the same thing in equal condition, with good photos, might not sell at ALL.
On Ebay, because I am not as well known as some of the big-time dealers, my selling prices on equivalent quality items tend to be a couple hundred dollars less than what the big-time, big-name dealer can get for the same item. Even a few really good custom painters like, for example, Bud Parr, can list a brass model for $1 starting bid, and they are "trusted" enough that that model will actually sell for its real value of $1800 or more.
Not being a big name, I do not get that kind of interest on my auctions.
As always, your mileage may vary, and good luck with the sales!
Sincerely,
John Mock
I just hope the family can be made to understand that sometimes even the folks who offer pennies on the dollar are still over-paying.
In the model train world as in nature ... even the vultures perform a valuable service.
Dave Nelson
dknelson I just hope the family can be made to understand that sometimes even the folks who offer pennies on the dollar are still over-paying. In the model train world as in nature ... even the vultures perform a valuable service. Dave Nelson
Yes. And you have to look at it from the perspective of time and effort vs. how much money you get out of selling a large collection of, in this case, low value model trains. Lets say you pay yourself a paultry 8 dollars an hour to try to wring out the most money out of each Athearn blue box car, and each junk items, which I assume is worth half or a quarter of the Athearn BB items, unless you are unemployed, your time is probably better spent making money in some other way than spending countless hours listing each and every Athearn freight car or even in groups of 5 or 10 on Ebay and paying the fee's and packaging them up and shipping them out. It might very well be best to sell the whole bundle to a buyer and let them put the labor into getting an extra couple bucks out each and every car. The junk... hard to say but thats even worse. The brass can be handled separately.
riogrande5761 dknelson I just hope the family can be made to understand that sometimes even the folks who offer pennies on the dollar are still over-paying. In the model train world as in nature ... even the vultures perform a valuable service. Dave Nelson Yes. And you have to look at it from the perspective of time and effort vs. how much money you get out of selling a large collection of, in this case, low value model trains. Lets say you pay yourself a paultry 8 dollars an hour to try to wring out the most money out of each Athearn blue box car, and each junk items, which I assume is worth half or a quarter of the Athearn BB items, unless you are unemployed, your time is probably better spent making money in some other way than spending countless hours listing each and every Athearn freight car or even in groups of 5 or 10 on Ebay and paying the fee's and packaging them up and shipping them out. It might very well be best to sell the whole bundle to a buyer and let them put the labor into getting an extra couple bucks out each and every car. The junk... hard to say but thats even worse. The brass can be handled separately.
Very true. In my example above the net dollars to the seller would be about $5 each for typical BB cars if bundled appropriately. But I think they can fetch a bit more to net 7 to 8 to the seller.
OP needs to decide if the club's efforts to help the daughter are worth the trouble, considering that a dealer would pay something for each car.
The junk stuff is probably not worth the time.
Doughless OP needs to decide if the club's efforts to help the daughter are worth the trouble, considering that a dealer would pay something for each car. The junk stuff is probably not worth the time.
Right, and keeping in mind what the OP stated:
"left behind a huge collection, and she is not willing to sell it to a dealer for pennies on the dollar. There is some brass, tons of Athearn BB and similar, and lots of just plain junk."
It looks like the vast majority of stuff is tons of Athearn and lots of plain junk. Like you said, the junk isn't going to be worth the time, period. That leave the vast majority left to deal with is Athearn BB, which is of limited value. I still argue, it's going to be questionable how much time and effort it will take to sell off the Athearn stuff, which isn't as popular ias it once was.
The daughter may not be willing to sell the collection off to a dealer but that only leaves a labor and time intensive option for the vast majority of the collection.
My wifes mother used to have a saying, "want never gets". In the end, the OP will have to present the limited options and maybe we will find out what happened.
Maybe the best compromise would be to rent tables at the next big local train show, price the stuff attractively, and whats left after the show, sell it to a dealer en mass. If that isn't acceptable, tell her to hold on to the collection to the next show and do the same. Eventually someone will say enough is enough.
hon30critter and she is not willing to sell it to a dealer for pennies on the dollar. There is some brass, tons of Athearn BB and similar, and lots of just plain junk. Our club feels obligated to help her out because he hosted the club in his basement for many, many years.
and she is not willing to sell it to a dealer for pennies on the dollar. There is some brass, tons of Athearn BB and similar, and lots of just plain junk. Our club feels obligated to help her out because he hosted the club in his basement for many, many years.
Dave,
Many people who are not in the hobby have an inflated sense of what Model trains are actually worth - especially second hand. There is a reason why dealers pay pennies on the dollar.
I have sold a couple thousand dollars worth of trains on ebay and on HO yard sale over the last 15 years. It is lots of work. Ebay is very fickle at times (rare items went for cheap - others at fair price). When I added up my time messing with it all, I barely made minmum wage on most items - and that is assuming the cost of the items to me is zero.
If it were me, I would carefully cull out the valuable stuff (asess this ruthlessly) and then have discussion with the daughter about how the used train market works. Help her sell only the good stuff... I wouldn't feel obligated to try and sell items for one or two bucks each.
She might feel better about a donation or some other option for the worthless/almost worthless stuff....
Good luck,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
trainnut1250Many people who are not in the hobby have an inflated sense of what Model trains are actually worth - especially second hand. There is a reason why dealers pay pennies on the dollar.
I think they read what someone's vintage Lionel collection sold for and assume that's all toy trains.
DO NOT go by asking prices for brass and other big ticket items on ebay. Look at completed auctions to see the price actually realized. That doesn't mean yours will attain that price, but somewhere close hopefully. The time of year matters as well. Right now is poor time to sell trains, its summer time. Waiting till after Halloween is best as by then the weather is turning colder over most of the USA, parents are recovered from back to school bills of the late summer/early fall and its getting close to Christmas time and gift giving. There are also some scale specific and brass specific Facebook groups you can join and posts lists of what your selling and the asking price. Indicate if the price is firm, or if your open to resonable offers. Even then, the market is not what it was just a few years ago, prices are down across the board, only rare brass models(they are not all rare) really fetch the top doller. Boxes are very important, espically with brass pieces. A missing or incorrect box puts a real dent in the value of a model. If its to much to deal with. Places like Trainz will come in, and make a cash offer for everything, might not be as much as selling on your own, but they are assuming all the risk that they will get thier investment back when its all sold. You just have to look at what your time is worth to dispose of everything, vs, thier offer and its over and done with. A local shop is dealing with this issue and its been a huge mess. He had thousands of items, all had to be test ran, evaluated for condition like missing steps or parts, engines test ran on both DC and DCC if equipted. There has been lots of bad feelings, animosity amoung people and in my opinion, not worth the hassle for those dealing directly with it. But that is just my 2 cents. Best of luck and my prayers for the late modelers family. Mike
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
riogrande5761 Right, and keeping in mind what the OP stated: "left behind a huge collection, and she is not willing to sell it to a dealer for pennies on the dollar. There is some brass, tons of Athearn BB and similar, and lots of just plain junk." It looks like the vast majority of stuff is tons of Athearn and lots of plain junk. Like you said, the junk isn't going to be worth the time, period. That leave the vast majority left to deal with is Athearn BB, which is of limited value. I still argue, it's going to be questionable how much time and effort it will take to sell off the Athearn stuff, which isn't as popular ias it once was.
If OP is looking for a value, I'll give him one. Popular or not, about 5 to 8 bucks each for Athearn BB rolling stock net to the seller after fees and shipping, appropriately bundled to spread out the shipping costs. (I'd make the lot big enough to fill out a Medium Flat Rate box)
I sell the old BB stuff frequently and that's about what it fetches. It sells just fine if its priced right.
I would suggest: If this is a club effort, take a few hours one night and have the members divide up the rolling stock into lots that make sense. Take pictures of each lot and pack them in boxes. Seal and LABEL THE BOXES CLEARLY, so they are sitting ready to ship. Whenever they sell, have the members print out the mailing label and send them on their way. Someone will have to monitor the bids and find an account to use. The members can describe them and list them in their spare time.
I assume the members are donating their time, so I wouldn't try to equate their work to an hourly wage.
That should give the OP a sense of what's involved, at least for the BB stuff. Heck, if its 200 pieces, that's a thousand bucks.
Thanks for all the input everyone. Very much appreciated.
I got to see the collection today and it is as described. There are some gems (I think), some decent stuff, and there is a lot of stuff that will simply be donated to the local Good Will store.
Just to clarify, the now owner of the collection is quite willing to do the bulk of the work herself, and in fact has already done a lot of work cataloging the collection. She is willing to spend time on the internet researching what she has. She is not asking the club to do all the work for her. All she wants is some guidance. She has already made a comprehensive list of all the BB stuff (which may have been a bit of a waste of time). I told her that the BB stuff was worth about $10 Cdn. each, which converts to the $7 - $8 USD price range suggested in the answers to the thread. I also gave her the addresses for several sites where she might be able to find information, and one site, 'Yard Office', which has a free inventory program.
As for the other stuff, there are about 20 beautiful brass HO scale locomotives and a few pieces of rolling stock. Her father had put prices on some of them but I don't know when or how accurate they are. Several of them were in the $800 range. I suggested that she photograph all of the brass and then contact her insurance company to let them know what she had in the house. I hinted that a professional appraisal might be a good idea despite the cost. In fact, they may not be offered for sale. The family wants to keep some examples of their dad's hobby for themselves. I also suggested that they not show the brass stuff to anyone unless the person is there to look at the brass specifically so they don't become a target for thieves.
The next thing I looked at was the O scale stuff. There are 50 or more Lionel and Marx (mostly Lionel) locomotives. There are several wind up locos in various conditions. Some of the wind ups were original but rough. Some had been repainted, badly I might add. There were no boxes. There were a couple of really old electric powered locomotives which I'm reasonably sure date from the 30s, and they are in decent shape. I did notice a couple of Lionel freight cars and one locomotive with electric uncouplers. Not sure how rare those might be. We didn't test them.
There were 40 or more Atlas yellow box, Lima, Fleischmann, Life Like and what I think are Athearn BB locomotives (no name but had Athearn style white rubber motor mounts), We tested them on a short piece of track. Some ran well and others not so, but everything with a motor in it at least moved under power. There were 20 or so steam locomotives made in Slovenia which were the same quality as the President's Choice train sets that Loblaws sold in Canada several years ago which were also made in Slovenia. They are not highly detailed.
Then there was a bunch of Tri-ang stuff that, in addition to being junk to begin with, were filthy. Those will go to Good Will, who will probably smile politely and then throw them in the garbage once the donor is gone.
I took about 90 pictures of the stuff that I thought might have some value and I said I would spend some time searching for values for her.
By the way, the reason the club is involved is because the deceased modeler hosted the Barrie Allandale Railroad Modelers club and it's predecessor in his own basement for close to 30 years. We owe his family at least some help.
I'll keep you posted if we uncover any real gems.
Thanks again,
Sorry for the long winded post.
hon30critterSorry for the long winded post.
No need to be sorry, Dave!
Actually, your post made me write down an addendum to my last will. It contains a list of the more valuable items of my "train stuff", including an estimated sales value. This will help my son, who will have the dear deed to execute my will, to get a feeling of what he can expect to retrieve in money terms from his dad´s life time hobby. It´s not going to be a fortune, but in dire times, it is every penny that counts!
Along with HO, I also have a sizeable Lionel post war collection which I started in the late 1980s. Yes, most of the collection was purchased during the Lionel collecting mania days - and I paid dearly.
Today, I might realize 1/4 to 1/3 of what I paid for many of the pieces.
So the point is, while some pieces might bring big dollars (i.e. pristine w/box), most will not. Of course as mentioned, a lot of non-MR folks think that "old trains" equal big money. Some did, few do now, most don't.
Like many collectables, "old" doesn't necessarily equal value.
mobilman44Like many collectables, "old" doesn't necessarily equal value.
I resent that remark! My wife, just like me, has turned old(er), but every year she is dearer to me!
Lionel is relatively easy to value but the other stuff maybe not so.
For me the decision was easy my 18 year old cousin collects trains and I simply left instructions in my will that he has first dibs on the trains and anything left is to be donated or disposed of as my executor sees fit.
I'm not in the hobby to make money so that is reflected in my instruction.
Joe Staten Island West
Dave, I'll just repeat my thoughts to be more clear. The daughter can list any 55 ft or smaller BB car for a 7 day listing at $8 plus $5.95 Small Flat Rate box and it will sell. If she has the time, she can sell one at a time.
Not sure how shipping works from Ontario, but always try to use a flat rate box because if she advertises shipping costs at an attractive price, say 7 bucks, somebody from the West Coast will buy it immediately and take advantage of the low advertised shipping. They will pay before you can even send an invoice.
I believe Howard Zane does provide brass appraisals, unbiased as well, because his policy is typically not to bid on the collection being appraised (unknown if he makes exceptions to that). I would highly recommend him for an honest appraisal of fair market value.
Most if not all other dealers will have a conflict of interest: they want to buy the entire collection of brass (or whatever pieces the family desires not to keep) and their "appraisal" will thus reflect what they "hope" to pay for the collection, and will definitely not be representative of current brass values, because they want to make a (considerable) profit on the deal.
I would therefore recommend Howard Zane as he is the man. Howard speaks brass quite fluently, and few people on earth possess his knowledge of the subject. The others, I am not able to recommend for an appraisal.