Baldwin AS 616 The 1950s have far more choices, from paint schemes to locomotives and cars.
The 1950s have far more choices, from paint schemes to locomotives and cars.
I vigorously disagree with this sentiment. There's a much wider variety of paint schemes out there and car types than in the 1950s. That was the height of the red-brown boxcar. Current weather resistant paints (and clean air laws) have broadened the available palette vastly. The lengthened rules for car interchange lifespans mean there's titanic amount of long gone railroads roaming the rails.
No one had ever seen a coil car with mismatched hoods (a chance for three road names in one package!), a spine car, or the height variety of hi-cubes.
BMMECNYC CHARLES STEINMETZ Stay tuned to developments from Blue Rail. Do those developments include the ability to MU with non-Blue Rail locomotives?
CHARLES STEINMETZ Stay tuned to developments from Blue Rail.
Do those developments include the ability to MU with non-Blue Rail locomotives?
And there is where choice comes into play. You can accept R/C and buy Blue Rail locomotives or stay with your current system and use what you already own...
While I think R/C is a good idea I will continue to use my Tech 6 since it fills my current and more then likely future needs.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
CHARLES STEINMETZStay tuned to developments from Blue Rail.
Mike
Sir MadogI do not have such abilities. All I know is that the majority of model railroads are still straight forward DC or even 3-rail AC layouts and DCC took 30 years from its rather humble beginnings to where it is today.
Ulrich,Not so long ago on this very forum the DCC advocates was tooting DC was dead..DC is still around and DCC is still around. You may recall I use a MRC Tech 6 so I can enjoy DCC or DCC/Sound or by a simple push of a button I can enjoy switching cars with one of my many DC engines.
R/C is far from being a new thought..It was first mention in a MR or RMC article back in the 60s.
Dead rail will come into being but,it will not replace DC or DCC.
I really do admire those folks, who have the talent to foresee the future. Especially those, who predict, that the hobby will die, or DCC is at its end, or dead rail will replace track power.
I do not have such abilities. All I know is that the majority of model railroads are still straight forward DC or even 3-rail AC layouts and DCC took 30 years from its rather humble beginnings to where it is today. Maybe in 30 years time, dead rail and bluetooth will be the predominant way of operating model trains, but frankly, I couldn´t care less. I don´t think I´ll be around by then.
Pete Steinmetz
Dead Rail Society
www.deadrailsociety.com
On30 Modeler
Encinitas, CA
Everybody is in a stretch for the next best thing.
Deadrail with batteries
Bluerail/Bluetooth, etc....The thing is none of the above options don't offer anything that isn't already offered in DCC. Dead rail is convient...to an extent. Batteries are expensive, take up space, limit your run time, and need time to recharge. If you think converting a fleet to DCC is expensive with decoders $20/pop, try buying Li-ion batteries + decoders!Blue rail is in flux right now. And no one has really developed anything that is really also compatible with DCC. And DCC has a lot of options on the table that aren't co-existing with blue rail.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Doughless Since my subscription lapsed when we moved I spent the 10 DOLLARS this "controversial" issue cost and read the OP article "The Future of Model Railroading". First of all, the fact that Lance Mindheim wrote an article about the future of the hobby is a bit out of his normal focus. He normally writes about modeling, so I wouldn't consider him an expert in the field of hobby philosophy. I'd think Tony Koester would be a better choice. It is one man's opinion, clearly stated as such as to what he views, primarily, the "game changing" technological advances to be in the hobby. Overall, I think its a fair article that is generally unbiased. But it is tech heavy, and my observation is that there is a natural tendency towards tech heavy publications to view tech customers as smart and hip and noncustomers as stooges scared or philisophically opposed to change. He says, "I think the biggest thing holding the hobby back is complacency with the status quo. It's a lack of demand for superior products. This isn't my own gut opinion, but feedback I consistently get hear from manufacturers and leaders in the hobby. " Personally, I think he, well, the hobby leaders, are simply wrong. LM gives two areas that he thinks, in his opinion, will be "game changers" in the hobby. And its not another release of an F unit. Its battery power and off board sound, which is where the headphones come in. He he pretty much slams onboard sound since he says the pathway from the decoder to the ear was limited from the start. He thinks using smart phones as a throttle is a push. He believes static grass will get better, yet he is told that the good products that are available now sit on the shelves. He implies that other modelers don't put as much importance upon accurate scenery than he would. (That's probably because a lot of people in the hobby never get to the scenic stage of a layout, if I had to guess). As far as era: "The structure and detail market has been slow to embrace the trend towards the modern era. At some point, it will become so obvious that the suppliers will catch up to demand." And illustrates this point with a picture of a Summit Customcuts CVS pharmacy. As far as the future of layout design, he mentions the change from the 4x8 to the Allen McClelland/Tony Koester mainline run layout...to a smaller but more "operationally sophisticated" shelf-style switching and branchline layouts. I don't know what that means, but I think its amusing because of the smoke coming out of some ears as they read it. "This trend...also allows participation by the more sophisticated (LOL) modeler who may not want to devote the time necessary to build a larger layout." Other than a couple of misguided comments, I thought the article was presented as being one man's opinion about where he thinks the hobby is going presented as one man's opinion. Some of it I agree with, some I don't. But hardly offensive. But just intuitively reading between the lines, the article would be appreciated by the younger technology interested person that would be interested in more technologically advanced products, who might think that present day DCC and onboard sound is the technology his parents would choose.
Since my subscription lapsed when we moved I spent the 10 DOLLARS this "controversial" issue cost and read the OP article "The Future of Model Railroading".
First of all, the fact that Lance Mindheim wrote an article about the future of the hobby is a bit out of his normal focus. He normally writes about modeling, so I wouldn't consider him an expert in the field of hobby philosophy. I'd think Tony Koester would be a better choice.
It is one man's opinion, clearly stated as such as to what he views, primarily, the "game changing" technological advances to be in the hobby.
Overall, I think its a fair article that is generally unbiased. But it is tech heavy, and my observation is that there is a natural tendency towards tech heavy publications to view tech customers as smart and hip and noncustomers as stooges scared or philisophically opposed to change.
He says, "I think the biggest thing holding the hobby back is complacency with the status quo. It's a lack of demand for superior products. This isn't my own gut opinion, but feedback I consistently get hear from manufacturers and leaders in the hobby. " Personally, I think he, well, the hobby leaders, are simply wrong.
LM gives two areas that he thinks, in his opinion, will be "game changers" in the hobby. And its not another release of an F unit. Its battery power and off board sound, which is where the headphones come in. He he pretty much slams onboard sound since he says the pathway from the decoder to the ear was limited from the start.
He thinks using smart phones as a throttle is a push.
He believes static grass will get better, yet he is told that the good products that are available now sit on the shelves. He implies that other modelers don't put as much importance upon accurate scenery than he would. (That's probably because a lot of people in the hobby never get to the scenic stage of a layout, if I had to guess).
As far as era: "The structure and detail market has been slow to embrace the trend towards the modern era. At some point, it will become so obvious that the suppliers will catch up to demand." And illustrates this point with a picture of a Summit Customcuts CVS pharmacy.
As far as the future of layout design, he mentions the change from the 4x8 to the Allen McClelland/Tony Koester mainline run layout...to a smaller but more "operationally sophisticated" shelf-style switching and branchline layouts. I don't know what that means, but I think its amusing because of the smoke coming out of some ears as they read it.
"This trend...also allows participation by the more sophisticated (LOL) modeler who may not want to devote the time necessary to build a larger layout."
Other than a couple of misguided comments, I thought the article was presented as being one man's opinion about where he thinks the hobby is going presented as one man's opinion. Some of it I agree with, some I don't. But hardly offensive.
But just intuitively reading between the lines, the article would be appreciated by the younger technology interested person that would be interested in more technologically advanced products, who might think that present day DCC and onboard sound is the technology his parents would choose.
I am 43 and always had an intrest in the 1920s to the 1960s. Sure watching modern trains is fun but id can really bore the h*** out of me. There are not that many choices anymmore. So many railroads are gone. The locomotives of today just look the same regardless of EMD or GE Just the paint job is difrent. The 1950s have far more choices, from paint schemes to locomotives and cars. And what about the pasenger trains? Sure, modeling trains of today is fun and all but you see it every day! I love recreating history and keeping history alive. Nothing beats running a nice steam locomotive with a train of intresting paint schemes and a fine caboose. I always lose myself in a great booko about railroa
How many of you finding fault with battery power have ever tried it? Probably none of you.
Rule 1 of Battery Powered Radio Control
Dead Rail is not for everyone.
For some, it is the best thing since sliced bread. For others, not so much.
In the future, Battery Power will be an important part of the hobby to many people. Will it replace DC or DCC? Absolutely not. Both DC and DCC will always be around.
Battery Power will just add another dimension to people's enjoyment of the hobby. Like controlling your trains with a smart device. How fast has that technology become popular?
One of the great things about this hobby is, "It's your railroad. Do what you want".
Take time to see what battery powered radio control is all about and how it is implimented. Then decide for yourself if that technology is for you.
I have a friend that is firmly DCC. He has one battery powered train he uses to clean his track. He is happy. His tracks are clean. His trains perform well.
Don't forget Battery Powered locos will run just fine on DC or DCC layouts.
Just got my 1,000th edition saturday, and finally got a day to read it. While he has a point on a couple, I do disagree with some of his predictions:
1-the shelf style layout. This works to an extent, but for those of us who model the mountain roads, or want to have high bridges,etc we still will go for a wider layout. The wall mounted will work somewhat though.
2.Battery power- I can see it used, but not very practical. I mean, around 1 hour of running per recharge cycle? Open house schedules null and void this. Until they can come up with a battery that holds a large charge and a quick recharge, learning to wire is still the best way to go.
What I agree with:I am part of the generation of modern era modelers...and there isnt a lot of buildings,people,equipment to pick from. The road I model has a roster of nothing but second (or third, or fourth) hand SD40-2s and several SD40-3 units, so I consider myself lucky there. But the boxcars they use for interchange are hard to find (Gunderson 60ft boxcars), as are the 100ton 3bay hoppers. The modern era modelers are coming into their own, and the manufacturers are gonna need to start producing for us.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
Steven OtteAh-ah-ah! Careful, now! You know what happens to threads that turn into "OMG this hobby has gotten so expensive" threads...
Steve,I was just reminiscing about the old days and the memories of pleasant Saturday mornings spent at Hall's Hobby Shop looking over new models and talking shop-including talking about those brand new GP30s!
ATLANTIC CENTRALWhat Larry always forgets is how much lower wages were back then, and he was making those "big" union bucks, others made even less. Those model trains were expensive.....
A lot of shops was union back then even ditch diggers got a good wage. There was low paying jobs that was always begginig for help.
Steven Otte BRAKIE I was in the hobby back then and was buying brass diesels from Alco Models,Hallmark ,Trains Inc for around $34.00. Athearn cars was 1.49.A Hobbytown RS-3 shell kit was $11.95 and the drive was $19.95. MR was 50 or 60 cents. Ah-ah-ah! Careful, now! You know what happens to threads that turn into "OMG this hobby has gotten so expensive" threads...
BRAKIE I was in the hobby back then and was buying brass diesels from Alco Models,Hallmark ,Trains Inc for around $34.00. Athearn cars was 1.49.A Hobbytown RS-3 shell kit was $11.95 and the drive was $19.95. MR was 50 or 60 cents.
I was in the hobby back then and was buying brass diesels from Alco Models,Hallmark ,Trains Inc for around $34.00. Athearn cars was 1.49.A Hobbytown RS-3 shell kit was $11.95 and the drive was $19.95. MR was 50 or 60 cents.
Ah-ah-ah! Careful, now! You know what happens to threads that turn into "OMG this hobby has gotten so expensive" threads...
What Larry always forgets is how much lower wages were back then, and he was making those "big" union bucks, others made even less. Those model trains were expensive.....
As Andre and I have pointed out for years, the hobby is no more expensive, and maybe even less expensive, than it ever was.
Sheldon
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
Sir MadogEven when I started out in the hobby some 50+ years ago, model trains were not cheap at all, so I think it is safe to say that the future does not depend on pricing alone
Come to think about it those was fun days since old Charley at Hall's Hobby Shop would display new releases every Saturday morning-the day after payday. Needless to say the shop was packed every Saturday morning. Sleep in and you might end up with a empty bag. As a example when Alco Models RS-1 showed up on the shelf all Charley had was gone by noon. Of course unlike today Charlie could and would restock.
ATSFGuy In order to survive, I think the manufacturers such as Walthers and Rapido are going to have to create a business model with vastly much lower prices and less limited edition runs.
In order to survive, I think the manufacturers such as Walthers and Rapido are going to have to create a business model with vastly much lower prices and less limited edition runs.
ATLANTIC CENTRALThat may all be true, but it does not change the fact that in the last three decades, at least in this part of the country, large layouts have been pretty common place.
There's still a lot of basement filling layouts in Ohio in just about every scale but,the last layout tour I was on the majority of the owners was in their 50/60s. I did see one around three years ago that filled a basement and the layout consisted of three scales HO,S and Lionel. That was a first for me and the Lionel area had lots of animation.
BRAKIE Sheldon,I've notice a growth in detailed switching layouts over the past five years I have my thoughts on why this is happening but,we won't go there. I will say the younger modelers wants the accurate museum quality models but,reducing the size of their layouts in the process or joining clubs and not bothering to build any layout.... IMHO the future of basement filling layouts will decline in the years to come due to the ever increasing cost of living and that means less money for hobbies..
Sheldon,I've notice a growth in detailed switching layouts over the past five years I have my thoughts on why this is happening but,we won't go there.
I will say the younger modelers wants the accurate museum quality models but,reducing the size of their layouts in the process or joining clubs and not bothering to build any layout.... IMHO the future of basement filling layouts will decline in the years to come due to the ever increasing cost of living and that means less money for hobbies..
That may all be true, but it does not change the fact that in the last three decades, at least in this part of the country, large layouts have been pretty common place.
I will say that some years back I made the decission not to make my layout smaller, but to make it much simpler than my original plan 20 years ago.
Large and complex are two different things....
Jeremy,
I don't know where you live, and there is no hard layout survey data to support my view or yours, but several simple facts to exist.
NMRA membership numbers suggest a much higher concentration of model railroaders in the Mid Atlantic and North East, followed third by the upper Mid West.
In all three of these regions the vast majority of single homes, and even most townhouses, come with basements. Basements that are generally equal in foot print to the house. As a construction and real estate professional I can tell you that half or less of these basements are fully finished living space - that fact does not stop them from being model railroad rooms either way.....
So it would seem, in the parts of the country with the most people, in the income level of housing owned by the people likely to afford this hobby, a great percentage likely have 500 to 1000 sq ft or more they can choose to devote to this hobby.
My own life long (I am 59, been active in the hobby since age 10) experiances here in the Mid Atlantic suggest that at least in the regions mentioned, 500 sq ft and larger layout spaces are actually rather common.
Your milage may vary in other regions...........
ATLANTIC CENTRAL JEREMY CENTANNI What do I think will happen? DCC can go in the dumpster it belongs in. Was it nice for its time? Yes. Does it work now? Yes. Are there better alternatives now? Yes. Blurail type stuff will put DCC to the curb, it will take time, but everyone has a cell phone and the ability to download.................... You just eliminated a lot of $$$ on equipment that you need to buy right off the bat. Batteries???????????? hahahahahhahahahahhaahahha NO! Maybe one day, but not now and useless for anyone other than having one engine on a small layout. Yes they are eons better than 10 years ago let alone 20 years ago, but still not up to the task now in HO(I can't speak for larger scales but they have room for far greater battery capacity) Headphones? I don't think so. The best bet now and for the anywhere near term future would be some effects on the locomotive itself coupled with a "rolling thunder" type system. Its physics. You will never get the feeling of being trackside while they go by in notch 8 in a smalllllllllllllllllllllllllllll speaker. I don't mind "superior" products.................. If you want to call something superior then manufacturers better start cranking out "quality". There are expensive turds out there which there is no excuse for. It was mentioned about new users, focus on quality, give us affordable choices. If I was a betting man, I would bet most people don't have a huge layout. I would bet a lot of folks belong to clubs and modular groups. You can do some amazing stuff without making every detail part a seperate piece. Some of us have no choice but to handle and move our equipment if we want to run it. Come to Maryland, how many basement sized layout would you like to see....... You are welcome to belong to a club, we have some real nice ones here, but that is not for everyone..... Sheldon
JEREMY CENTANNI What do I think will happen? DCC can go in the dumpster it belongs in. Was it nice for its time? Yes. Does it work now? Yes. Are there better alternatives now? Yes. Blurail type stuff will put DCC to the curb, it will take time, but everyone has a cell phone and the ability to download.................... You just eliminated a lot of $$$ on equipment that you need to buy right off the bat. Batteries???????????? hahahahahhahahahahhaahahha NO! Maybe one day, but not now and useless for anyone other than having one engine on a small layout. Yes they are eons better than 10 years ago let alone 20 years ago, but still not up to the task now in HO(I can't speak for larger scales but they have room for far greater battery capacity) Headphones? I don't think so. The best bet now and for the anywhere near term future would be some effects on the locomotive itself coupled with a "rolling thunder" type system. Its physics. You will never get the feeling of being trackside while they go by in notch 8 in a smalllllllllllllllllllllllllllll speaker. I don't mind "superior" products.................. If you want to call something superior then manufacturers better start cranking out "quality". There are expensive turds out there which there is no excuse for. It was mentioned about new users, focus on quality, give us affordable choices. If I was a betting man, I would bet most people don't have a huge layout. I would bet a lot of folks belong to clubs and modular groups. You can do some amazing stuff without making every detail part a seperate piece. Some of us have no choice but to handle and move our equipment if we want to run it.
What do I think will happen?
DCC can go in the dumpster it belongs in. Was it nice for its time? Yes. Does it work now? Yes. Are there better alternatives now? Yes.
Blurail type stuff will put DCC to the curb, it will take time, but everyone has a cell phone and the ability to download.................... You just eliminated a lot of $$$ on equipment that you need to buy right off the bat.
Batteries???????????? hahahahahhahahahahhaahahha NO! Maybe one day, but not now and useless for anyone other than having one engine on a small layout. Yes they are eons better than 10 years ago let alone 20 years ago, but still not up to the task now in HO(I can't speak for larger scales but they have room for far greater battery capacity)
Headphones? I don't think so. The best bet now and for the anywhere near term future would be some effects on the locomotive itself coupled with a "rolling thunder" type system. Its physics. You will never get the feeling of being trackside while they go by in notch 8 in a smalllllllllllllllllllllllllllll speaker.
I don't mind "superior" products.................. If you want to call something superior then manufacturers better start cranking out "quality". There are expensive turds out there which there is no excuse for.
It was mentioned about new users, focus on quality, give us affordable choices. If I was a betting man, I would bet most people don't have a huge layout. I would bet a lot of folks belong to clubs and modular groups. You can do some amazing stuff without making every detail part a seperate piece. Some of us have no choice but to handle and move our equipment if we want to run it.
Come to Maryland, how many basement sized layout would you like to see.......
You are welcome to belong to a club, we have some real nice ones here, but that is not for everyone.....
You can show me as many basement size layouts as you want, but it is not, nor will it ever be the norm. Most folks do not have that much space to devote to model railroading.
Like I said, there are lots of folks who have small or no home layout, so it is a club or nothing.
ROBERT PETRICK CNSF I found his ideas about printing instead of painting surfaces to be especially interesting - this could be the 'sleeper' among all his predictions. Read that section closely - the possibilities are tremendous, and apply to all types of modeling and craftwork. I've had this same idea, and I intend to use it on my current layout build. For pavement and pavement markings: railroad crossings, pedestrian crosswalks, no parking zones, handicap parking spaces, turn arrows, divider stripes, etc . . . not to mention the pavement surface itself. Print out full scale (full N scale, that is), attach with 3M spray mount adhesive, a little touch up, a little matte medium, then stand back and see what's what. Might work. I think it could be at least as good as painting, maybe a little better. I'll post results as they occur. Robert
CNSF I found his ideas about printing instead of painting surfaces to be especially interesting - this could be the 'sleeper' among all his predictions. Read that section closely - the possibilities are tremendous, and apply to all types of modeling and craftwork.
I found his ideas about printing instead of painting surfaces to be especially interesting - this could be the 'sleeper' among all his predictions. Read that section closely - the possibilities are tremendous, and apply to all types of modeling and craftwork.
I've had this same idea, and I intend to use it on my current layout build. For pavement and pavement markings: railroad crossings, pedestrian crosswalks, no parking zones, handicap parking spaces, turn arrows, divider stripes, etc . . . not to mention the pavement surface itself. Print out full scale (full N scale, that is), attach with 3M spray mount adhesive, a little touch up, a little matte medium, then stand back and see what's what. Might work. I think it could be at least as good as painting, maybe a little better.
I'll post results as they occur.
Robert
I've used printed streets on my layout for around 10 years. Took images of streets, imported them into Microsoft Word, and cropped/resized the images as needed. Used Word Art to add street markings. I print the streets on high quality letter paper; this gives the streets some character that they wouldn't have if printed on cardstock.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Thinking about this whole conversation, maybe if Lance had just left out all the stuff about the manufacturers, existing modelers behaviors, advancing the hobby, and simply presented the ideas and their possible benefits, the reception may have been way different.......... I for one would likely not have gotten the feeling I was being "talked down to"..... Sheldon
Thinking about this whole conversation, maybe if Lance had just left out all the stuff about the manufacturers, existing modelers behaviors, advancing the hobby, and simply presented the ideas and their possible benefits, the reception may have been way different..........
I for one would likely not have gotten the feeling I was being "talked down to".....
Nailed it. Too many times I feel articles in MR are talking down to me.
In contrast the latest Classic Trains issue is magnificent.
John
BRAKIE BMMECNYC BRAKIE That could be remedied as batteries in the shape of fuel tanks perhaps? Youre thinking like old cell phone battery packs, or hand held radio pack? No, the battery would be the fuel tank with details. A service track with a small port for the charging cord. I got the idea from my XBOX 360 rechargeable battery pack since it reminded me of a fuel tank. https://www.amazon.com/Capacity-Rechargeable-Batteries-Charging-Wireless-Controller/dp/B00BXZTKVQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1488556298&sr=1-2&keywords=xbox360+rechargeable+battery+pack
BMMECNYC BRAKIE That could be remedied as batteries in the shape of fuel tanks perhaps? Youre thinking like old cell phone battery packs, or hand held radio pack?
BRAKIE That could be remedied as batteries in the shape of fuel tanks perhaps?
Youre thinking like old cell phone battery packs, or hand held radio pack?
No, the battery would be the fuel tank with details. A service track with a small port for the charging cord.
I got the idea from my XBOX 360 rechargeable battery pack since it reminded me of a fuel tank.
https://www.amazon.com/Capacity-Rechargeable-Batteries-Charging-Wireless-Controller/dp/B00BXZTKVQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1488556298&sr=1-2&keywords=xbox360+rechargeable+battery+pack
Yes, kind of the same deal. The battery pack was an integral part of the exterior of the cell phone, and was detachable.
On a side note, it is super hard to type when you have 2 furry 4 leg helpers sitting on your keyboard.