ATLANTIC CENTRALIt is my belief that sound appeals the most to those who enjoy the idea of being the engineer.
In my case I'm doing the job as a brakeman and sound comes natural when you're up close and personal even if its no more then the clicky clack as the engine silently drifts by your location..Our sounds will never match the sound of prototype switching but,it beats nothing and I freely admit after 30-40 minutes I push F8.
I spend the majority of the time reading fright car numbers and checking the switch list. Once I get the engine moving I shut off the throttle and she will drift to where I need it to stop thanks to momentum and speed step.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
PRR8259 It is all about the models themselves for me. The layout is merely the place to run them, and I do not need any sound to appreciate a good steamer. Now as a civil engineer certain aspects of layout construction and scenery come easier to me, but it is still about the locomotives for me.
It is all about the models themselves for me. The layout is merely the place to run them, and I do not need any sound to appreciate a good steamer. Now as a civil engineer certain aspects of layout construction and scenery come easier to me, but it is still about the locomotives for me.
So here is an interesting twist, for me it is about the "package", the layout, the scenery, the operation, and the trains - but I don't need sound either.
It is my belief that sound appeals the most to those who enjoy the idea of being the engineer.
While I can be the engineer, I'm equally happy as a "rail fan" model viewer (one of the reasons my layouts must have continous run ability).
Ever watch real trains from any distance, the sounds are mostly "in the background".
Sheldon
Sir MadogBut they don´t give you that "Warren Buffet" feeling of owning a railroad,
Railroad Tycoon?
Sir MadogIncidentally, I recently saw an interview with Florian Sieber, the new boss of Marklin, who, for the first time in decades, was proud to report a growing customer base. He owes this to a new line of kid´s trains and a budget line in the key market of 3-rail AC HO scale trains. The budget line is not as detailed as the premium line, but still sufficiently detailed and at the same level of engineering and built quality. May be there is a lesson to be learned in this with respect to the future of model railroading.
Mike
ATLANTIC CENTRALAnd here we go again. I have no "mission" to "save" the hobby, save young people from pop culture, or recruit new people young or old.
Nor do I.. I just stated one enjoys the hobby by his choice and the other does not by his choice. Brothers with different hobbies.
My son was never really interested in model trains although he enjoy running trains on my N Scale door layout when he was a kid. He was always more interested in building and studying computer science and that became his profession. My daughter collects Chessie the cat memorabilia but,I suspect that's because she loves cats.
I also enjoy DC as well as DCC and DCC/Sound. That's why I have a Tech 6. A simple push of the button gives me the best of both worlds.
This morning I used my SCL BB GP35 to switch older BB 50' boxcars- my old school hobby enjoyment.
Larry,
I gave my son all the works - from a Playmobil train set when he was 3 years old, to LGB when he was 8 years to one of the early train simulators when he was 12. He never developed an interest in trains or model railroads. Things would have been different, had I given him a Lego train set, as he loved to "work" with Lego bricks. The little one is now 30 years old and has a summa *** laude degree in computer engineering science. His hobby? No trains, but dioramas and those dreadful looking war hammer figures.
Incidentally, I recently saw an interview with Florian Sieber, the new boss of Marklin, who, for the first time in decades, was proud to report a growing customer base. He owes this to a new line of kid´s trains and a budget line in the key market of 3-rail AC HO scale trains. The budget line is not as detailed as the premium line, but still sufficiently detailed and at the same level of engineering and built quality.
May be there is a lesson to be learned in this with respect to the future of model railroading.
BRAKIE Sir Madog It is a completely different hobby than model railroading and therefore has nothing to do with the future of it. TS may lead to new modelers and with DCC/Sound and the use of a smart phone or ipad as a throttle.. I wouldn't want to bet the farm either way..My youngest Grandson isn't into model trains but likes TS. Maybe there's hope yet? My oldest Grandson buys DCC/Sound locomotives from Atlas and Geneses and high detailed cars and could care less for video games.
Sir Madog It is a completely different hobby than model railroading and therefore has nothing to do with the future of it.
TS may lead to new modelers and with DCC/Sound and the use of a smart phone or ipad as a throttle.. I wouldn't want to bet the farm either way..My youngest Grandson isn't into model trains but likes TS. Maybe there's hope yet?
My oldest Grandson buys DCC/Sound locomotives from Atlas and Geneses and high detailed cars and could care less for video games.
And here we go again. I have no "mission" to "save" the hobby, save young people from pop culture, or recruit new people young or old.
Still happy with my quiet DC powered trains.....
I have a personality flaw, I have never felt the need or desire to control, influence, direct, or have sway over another person. Any attempts at the above have always seemed unsuccessful and required tremedous unpleasant effort. Any influence I have ever had over anyone has simply been luck or divine providence.......
Sir MadogIt is a completely different hobby than model railroading and therefore has nothing to do with the future of it.
BRAKIETS requires more skill then running our models.
That may very well be, but it´s not my cup of tea. It is a completely different hobby than model railroading and therefore has nothing to do with the future of it.
Just my maybe not so humble opinion.
ATLANTIC CENTRALEveryone in this hobby is drawn to it for different reasons, everyone enjoys it in different ways.
I fully agree.. I would rather switch cars on my ISL then on the computer screen but,its still fun on the computer.
I guess I've always been open minded to such things and that's what makes my retirement enjoyable. I have tons of time to do as I please and I'm never bored like some retirees.
I enjoy the hobby,video gaming railfaning and fishing-a full plate of fun.
BRAKIE Sir Madog Operating a train with a computer train simulator is for me like a a guy living in a high rise condo and playing "my little farm" on his computer. I guess you haven't had the pleasure of hearing 567s or 645s at work..The speakers or headphones will put you in the cab and is far more realistic then our HO sounds. Ever load a empty coal train at a flood loader? Ever go up or down Sandpatch? How about running a Amtrak commuter train between Washington and Baltimore while making station stops? TS requires more skill then running our models.
Sir Madog Operating a train with a computer train simulator is for me like a a guy living in a high rise condo and playing "my little farm" on his computer.
I guess you haven't had the pleasure of hearing 567s or 645s at work..The speakers or headphones will put you in the cab and is far more realistic then our HO sounds. Ever load a empty coal train at a flood loader? Ever go up or down Sandpatch? How about running a Amtrak commuter train between Washington and Baltimore while making station stops?
TS requires more skill then running our models.
Again, a train sim is a different kind of fun, not for me thank you.
But, my primary goal in model railroading is not to "play engineer", part of the reason I do not care for sound in small scales.
Everyone in this hobby is drawn to it for different reasons, everyone enjoys it in different ways.
I have no interest in computer games of ANY kind, never really played one. The whole idea makes my eyes glaze over in boredom.....
As does sitting in a full size cab mockup to run a model train......
If I wanted that experiance, I would drive up to Strasburg and apply for a job.......
Sir MadogOperating a train with a computer train simulator is for me like a a guy living in a high rise condo and playing "my little farm" on his computer.
Train sims are quite nice - if you are into computer games. But they don´t give you that "Warren Buffet" feeling of owning a railroad, albeit a model one. And they don´t give you the pride of having dreamed it, planned it and finally built it, using your own imgaination and creativity, and not somebody else´s. Add to that the multitude of skills which you develop along the way.
Operating a train with a computer train simulator is for me like a a guy living in a high rise condo and playing "my little farm" on his computer.
There is much more to life than what just fits onto a computer screen.
trainboyH16-44So, with all that in favour of simulators, what is it that keeps us coming back to modeling? Why would someone like myself, who got MSTS and Trainz long before he started building, want to come up against all these limitations to pursue a layout?
1. Building models and/or layout is fun, plus your actually handling something tangible.
2. You have a railfan viewpoint while operating the train.
3. The model train is a real object responding to your controls.
All of which is not to say that simutlators can't be fun - it's just a different kind of fun.
Paul
No, he makes a very good point. Train sims are, in a way, more realistic than our models. The routes are close to prototype perfect, and the train handling is much more nuanced - when was the last time you had to plan ahead for your descent down your 1+% grade and worry about your air? Does the tinny sound from your HO scale speaker really compare to a computer subwoofer, and can you stand trackside and hear the roar, doppler, and fade as the tiny train passes you?
They're cheaper by an order of magnitude, if not two, and it's easier to scratchbuild any unit that's not available - not to mention the universality of scale.
On top of that, you can have as few or as many runs as you want, and easily change grades and curves if you so choose.
So, with all that in favour of simulators, what is it that keeps us coming back to modeling? Why would someone like myself, who got MSTS and Trainz long before he started building, want to come up against all these limitations to pursue a layout?
That question isn't rhetorical, I'm honestly interested in what answers you'll come up with.
Go here for my rail shots! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296
Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/
Why do that when you have Train Sim? TS puts you in the engineer's seat. You can switch cars or run a local,passenger train or freight train.
Hardly the same thing and about as realistic as those driving simulators they used in driver's ed. in the very early 60's. I sat there doing nothing once just as an experiment. Amazingly, the car on the movie screen did exactly what it was supposed to without any input whatsoever from me.
I've played with train sims. Not interested.
Andre
andrechapelonAgain with the mundane, tiny dreams. Do what Warren Buffett did. Buy your own railroad. Then you're not limited by the confines of buildings (even ones the size of megastores). Andre
The age of technology will move the hobby forward. You can already ride in your engine's cab by using a mini gopro cam and flat screen TV, your smart phone or ipad.
The technology has already passed headphones and rolling thunder. What everyone needs is a full size SD-45 cab in their garage connected to a video feed from a camera mounted on a train upstairs on the layout:
Again with the mundane, tiny dreams. Do what Warren Buffett did. Buy your own railroad. Then you're not limited by the confines of buildings (even ones the size of megastores).
JEREMY CENTANNIHeadphones? I don't think so. The best bet now and for the anywhere near term future would be some effects on the locomotive itself coupled with a "rolling thunder" type system. Its physics. You will never get the feeling of being trackside while they go by in notch 8 in a smalllllllllllllllllllllllllllll speaker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMyl0hQg5ec
Speaking of the future of model railroading, how about a coffee shop that sells model trains?
You need to dream larger dreams. I was thinking something along the line of Dunkin Donuts selling trains. Absent that, train shops selling Dunkin Donuts and coffee.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL CHARLES STEINMETZ All I can say is stay tuned. Well, even though I will most likely never change over to it, I am a big supporter of any direct radio approach to command control for model trains. I do think it is a simpler, better approach than sending the signal through the rails. But BlueRail leaves me cold.......as a "user interface" I hate smart phones, and tablets are too big for this purpose (don't like them much better anyway). No touch screens for me thank you. I want a throttle I can hold and control with one hand....without a touch screen. Sheldon
CHARLES STEINMETZ All I can say is stay tuned.
Well, even though I will most likely never change over to it, I am a big supporter of any direct radio approach to command control for model trains. I do think it is a simpler, better approach than sending the signal through the rails.
But BlueRail leaves me cold.......as a "user interface" I hate smart phones, and tablets are too big for this purpose (don't like them much better anyway). No touch screens for me thank you.
I want a throttle I can hold and control with one hand....without a touch screen.
I agree with Sheldon, if it involves a touch screen, I'll change the channel. I use paper and pencil to develop work lists/shopping lists for the hobby shop/etc...
CHARLES STEINMETZAll I can say is stay tuned.
Pete Steinmetz
Dead Rail Society
www.deadrailsociety.com
On30 Modeler
Encinitas, CA
Andre,I guess you never looked at short line engines? There are many colorful short line engines including one that wear CB&Q Black,Red,Grey scheme.
Yeah, I've seen short line engines. So what? And CB&Q colors? Who cares? Anybody living in Burlington territory in the 50's could have seen the same thing.
ATLANTIC CENTRALYou are welcome to your opinion, but actually the 50's were full of colorful paint schemes.
The IPD era has those colors beat by a land side. I recall seeing lots of BCR and Oxide Red freight cars.
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I vigorously disagree with this sentiment. There's a much wider variety of paint schemes out there and car types than in the 1950s
Were you around in the 50's?
SP diesel colors:
Switcher: Orange/Black Tiger stripe.
If switcher were set up for road use, add silver ends.
Freight and dual service: Red, silver, black, orange.
Passenger: Daylight red, orange, black (we'll ignore the specially painted units initially assigned to the Golden State.
Passenger cars: Olive green, two tone gray, Daylight, Harbor Mist gray and yellow (UP compatibility), stainless steel and red stripe.
Yeah, a lot of the freight cars were mineral brown. So what? Most freight cars today are pretty boring when it comes to color. Well, maybe not the pink grain hoppers, but then neither was the vast fleet of orange PFE reefers.
Of course, in 1950 there were over 100 class 1's and at least as many diesel paint schemes. Hell, the M&StL had almost as many paint schemes for RS-1's as they had RS-1's.
I'll admit there are some really attractive paint schemes now (especially the Genessee and Wyoming associated regionals), but on the whole, I'll stick with the 50's.
NittanyLion Baldwin AS 616 The 1950s have far more choices, from paint schemes to locomotives and cars. I vigorously disagree with this sentiment. There's a much wider variety of paint schemes out there and car types than in the 1950s. That was the height of the red-brown boxcar. Current weather resistant paints (and clean air laws) have broadened the available palette vastly. The lengthened rules for car interchange lifespans mean there's titanic amount of long gone railroads roaming the rails. No one had ever seen a coil car with mismatched hoods (a chance for three road names in one package!), a spine car, or the height variety of hi-cubes.
Baldwin AS 616 The 1950s have far more choices, from paint schemes to locomotives and cars.
The 1950s have far more choices, from paint schemes to locomotives and cars.
I vigorously disagree with this sentiment. There's a much wider variety of paint schemes out there and car types than in the 1950s. That was the height of the red-brown boxcar. Current weather resistant paints (and clean air laws) have broadened the available palette vastly. The lengthened rules for car interchange lifespans mean there's titanic amount of long gone railroads roaming the rails.
No one had ever seen a coil car with mismatched hoods (a chance for three road names in one package!), a spine car, or the height variety of hi-cubes.
You are welcome to your opinion, but actually the 50's were full of colorful paint schemes.
B&O Sentinal and Time Saver box cars - blue/orange, blue/silver
C&O Aluminum experimental box cars and hoppers left raw aluminum
Gerber billboard reefers
SP "overnight" box cars
Piggyback trailers with all manner of colorful schemes - SP orange, B&O blue and orange, NKP blue, CP green, CNW green and yellow, Wabash light blue, just to name a few
Reefers - yellow, orange, silver, and more
Cabooses - oxide red, bright red, blue, green, etc.
PRR merchandise service cars
MoPac blue box cars
Just to name a few........
Even the "boring" "red" cars were all differnt shades......
I strongly believe that there were more variety of paont schemes and more variety of cars. Check the wide variety of railroad books!
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