tstage PRR8259 One point is that used plastic mass produced steamers will not increase in value but the good, limited run brass actually does... John, That's just a foreign concept to me. The three undecorated brass locomotives that I recently purchased were purchased with the idea of 1) converting them to DCC, 2) painting and detailing them, 3) running them on my [future] layout, and 4) having something that was unique to my prototype. While I don't look to diminish the value of a particular locomotive when I convert it to DCC, its "value" is its importance in my roster; not what it will or will not fetch 5 or 10 years down the road. Tom
PRR8259 One point is that used plastic mass produced steamers will not increase in value but the good, limited run brass actually does...
One point is that used plastic mass produced steamers will not increase in value but the good, limited run brass actually does...
John,
That's just a foreign concept to me. The three undecorated brass locomotives that I recently purchased were purchased with the idea of 1) converting them to DCC, 2) painting and detailing them, 3) running them on my [future] layout, and 4) having something that was unique to my prototype. While I don't look to diminish the value of a particular locomotive when I convert it to DCC, its "value" is its importance in my roster; not what it will or will not fetch 5 or 10 years down the road.
Tom
Tom, my two brass locos now have Bachmann tenders and say ATLANTIC CENTRAL, I wonder what that did for their "value"?
Sheldon
They're valuable to you, Sheldon - that's the important thing.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
PRR8259 Not everyone thinks the same as me. Once upon a time I collected coins. Years ago a bunch of collectors got into HO brass...according to Howard Zane, none of them were disappointed at the value eventually realized when they sold later on.
Not everyone thinks the same as me. Once upon a time I collected coins. Years ago a bunch of collectors got into HO brass...according to Howard Zane, none of them were disappointed at the value eventually realized when they sold later on.
Coins and brass trains - at least to me - are apples and oranges. I may end up modifying a brass locomotive to my liking; given that I've only bought undecorated models so far. However, as a coin collector (and I did collect coins in my youth), I won't be drilling holes or adding a decoder to a 1955 double-die Lincoln wheat penny. That would be idiotic because a collector strives to keep his "collection" in as pristine condition as possible.
In the most recent MME videos from Brasstrains.com, there was a gentlemen referred to at the end of the program, who was a collector of brass trains - and very nice ones. They always stayed in their boxes and the only time he could view abnd enjoy them was when he looked at the detailed photos that he took of them before packing them up. While I can appreciate and understand that, those brass locomotives would be of "no value" - to me - because it never comes out of the box or runs on my layout.
Granted, it will stay in pristine condition (assuming it's stored well in a dry and humidity-controlled environment) and will most likely yield a good return on its investiment for the owner. Unfortunately, it's useless as a purchased item from my perspective. My desire is to "invest" in a plausible revenue-maker for my prototype railroad. Unless it cannot be put in running order, a locomotive in my roster will only be placed in storage to keep the dust off it while it's not in use. I have no intention of selling it; merely enjoying it because it was a part of the history of my prototype.
But, hey...it's a wide hobby and everyone can enjoy it as they desire and have the means to do so.
tstage They're valuable to you, Sheldon - that's the important thing. Tom
Yes Tom, a point I have made to John for years now.
tstageWhile I can appreciate and understand that, those brass locomotives would be of "no value" - to me - because it never comes out of the box or runs on my layout.
Speaking of brass..The only brass locomotive that would have any real value for me is Trains Inc EMD RS1325 made in the 60s since I would like one for my Slate Creek Rail. EMD only made two RS1325s and both went to C&IM so,the chance of seeing one in plastic is zero to none.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I don't really have a horse in this race, none of the P2K steamers was ever appropriate for my railroad, and both BLI and Bachmann have only ever made 1 each. Oh and Mantua of course - all the way back to the early days of HO, that little Reading camelback got around. Their 0-6-0T isn;t quite right for the shop switcher but it can be modified.
One of the reason I model the 50's is BECAUSE it is before I was born. That adds research and history to the hobby activities. I happen to do 1956 which is 10 years before I was born. If modeling the 50's wasn't popular, I don't think Kalmbach would have published THREE books on the subject (ok, the freight cars one also included the 40's). Not to mention a whole magazine devoted to effectively the transistion era.
If there's a market, I hope Walthers adds to the P2K steamer line. But 10 people yacking on an online forum is not a market.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
First off there are more model railroaders worldwide than ever before, 2nd, more than half don't do American. The smorgasboard is just starting as 3d printing takes hold and if you run a company you need to take this and other items into consideration. I used to buy Proto steam but not anymore, not because I don't like them but I have too many and am only looking for a deal on a 2-8-8-2 just because I want one. Most were purchaced for around $50 and looked like they were never run. There is so much stuff out there, whatever you want you can find and someone is ussually selling it cheap (except a coaling tower by Winchester models, plenty of sanding towers though and might settle for a Walthers small concrete tower).
rrinkerThat adds research and history to the hobby activities. I happen to do 1956 which is 10 years before I was born.
And researching history can be part of modeling the modern era, if one chooses. Of course, modeling the modern could only require a good camera, and not require much research, but I like to know why the mainline and rail spurs that I see are where they are.
I'm now researching the Central of Georgia and Georgia Railroad as part of understanding the NS and CSX mainlines that are near my new house. Why are those old spur tracks there, and when did the business cease being rail served? Is it plausible it could be rail served today?
The branch line I am interested in being the basis for my new Georgia based layout ends about 20 miles north of the Kaolin Clay belt (for an understanding of Kaolin, read about the Sandersville Railroad). Having an understanding of the history of the area can create a background for plausibly extending the branch line of a former CofG line into the kaolin belt and generate modern-day traffic for the layout.
Its probably not as intense as researching the Reading in the 60s, but modeling modern era doesn't discount the need for understanding history of a specific area since it provides an understanding of why the railroad is where it is and the changes and modifications it went through to get here. I think having that background leads to a much more plausible and realistic freelanced layout.
Sure, if I was going to model a modern day CSX mainline or branchline as it is today in 2017, I could just drive a few miles, take some pics, and copy that 1:87 scale in my spare room. What fun is that?
- Douglas
BTW, modern branch lines are seldomly built new these days, they are generally left over from "the glory days" of railroading when the original railorad built them new. But new industries pop up along these lines, and old industries are repurposed as recessions occur over the years.
I'm currently researching Thomaston Georgia. Its an interesting town with an interesting railroad history that still retains a "reverse loop" of track through the heart of it. Back when America was great (he duck's) it was full of textile mills and even had a BF Goodrich fiber tire cord plant, being close to the cotton fields.
Could any of these industries exist and be railserved today? Or repurposed into a modern pecan candy factory that receives tanks of corn syrup and hoppers of sugar?
DoughlessCould any of these industries exist and be rail served today? Or repurposed into a modern pecan candy factory that receives tanks of corn syrup and hoppers of sugar?
Absolutely and they do. I don't have the time or desire to research every short line customer but,the information is there if one wishes to spend several hours researching on the internet.
----------------------------------
As far as the "glory day" industrial leads rest assured the big railroads have spun a lot of those off to various Port Authorities which in turn leases them to a short line operator. A lot of these short lines recover the freight business big railroads lost decades ago.
A lot of information can be found in Trains Magazine and Train.com especially their short line issue.
Collectors are great for the hobby. They buy lots of stuff, helps keep the manufacturers going. Years ago I shared a cubical at work with an N scale collector. He went to all the train shows, buying N scale. He loves N&W, but also bought other roads as well. He had just enough track to make a circle for test running, but was otherwise not interested in running them.
Personally, I have more than enough trains for my early 50's Maryland & Pennsylvania RR in S scale.
But I collect HO and O scale trains that appeal to me - usually older pieces at a good price. I will eventually have a small layout in HO and one in O for the purpose of running my collection. I also have some Lionels that I have set up for my grandson to run.
This is a hobby, I do what is fun for me.
Enjoy
Paul
Collecting is fine. Operating is fine. There isn't much difference to me if people purchase a high volume of the same product, regardless of their reason.
My opinion is that the segment of the market that feels they don't have enough PRR GP9's in their "collection" or "operating fleet" (same thing to me) and are waiting for Walthers or Athearn to produce another run is diminishing relative to the people who could use a generic black GP 9 with fore and aft ditch lights, paper filter box, and conspicuity stripes. This is just an observation by the prices and shelf time I see for NIB same ol' same ol' stuff compared to the more modern stuff.
Doughless Collecting is fine. Operating is fine. There isn't much difference to me if people purchase a high volume of the same product, regardless of their reason. My opinion is that the segment of the market that feels they don't have enough PRR GP9's in their "collection" or "operating fleet" (same thing to me) and are waiting for Walthers or Athearn to produce another run is diminishing relative to the people who could use a generic black GP 9 with fore and aft ditch lights, paper filter box, and conspicuity stripes. This is just an observation by the prices and shelf time I see for NIB same ol' same ol' stuff compared to the more modern stuff.
Maybe, maybe not. I buy mostly undecorated to letter ATLANTIC CENTRAL, beyond that I only buy first generation paint scheme B&O, C&O and WESTERN MARYLAND.
I do have a fleet, 6 of this, 8 of that, 12 of those, etc, because I pull long trains. Every diesel mainline train is pulled by 3 to 6 units, most steam is double headed.
And it is 1954 at my house......
I don't buy anything that does not serve a purpose on the layout.
I just do not think it is that easy to assume what the market really wants just because of what you, or people you know, are doing.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Doughless Collecting is fine. Operating is fine. There isn't much difference to me if people purchase a high volume of the same product, regardless of their reason. My opinion is that the segment of the market that feels they don't have enough PRR GP9's in their "collection" or "operating fleet" (same thing to me) and are waiting for Walthers or Athearn to produce another run is diminishing relative to the people who could use a generic black GP 9 with fore and aft ditch lights, paper filter box, and conspicuity stripes. This is just an observation by the prices and shelf time I see for NIB same ol' same ol' stuff compared to the more modern stuff. Maybe, maybe not. I buy mostly undecorated to letter ATLANTIC CENTRAL, beyond that I only buy first generation paint scheme B&O, C&O and WESTERN MARYLAND. I do have a fleet, 6 of this, 8 of that, 12 of those, etc, because I pull long trains. Every diesel mainline train is pulled by 3 to 6 units, most steam is double headed. And it is 1954...... I don't buy anything thst does not serve a purpose on the layout. Sheldon
And it is 1954......
I don't buy anything thst does not serve a purpose on the layout.
As you pointed out, as time passes, modelers have more choices about what to model. Also as time passes, the amount of time a locomotive looks "as-built" diminishes compared to the amount of time looking "as modified".
If you want GP7s and GP9s as they looked in 1954, then those modifications don't matter obviously.
But if for modelers who run GP38/40s, SDs, U boats, 23-7s, MP15s, or GP15s, what they look like in the past 20 years is mattering more and more than what they looked like as-built.
Doughless ATLANTIC CENTRAL Doughless Collecting is fine. Operating is fine. There isn't much difference to me if people purchase a high volume of the same product, regardless of their reason. My opinion is that the segment of the market that feels they don't have enough PRR GP9's in their "collection" or "operating fleet" (same thing to me) and are waiting for Walthers or Athearn to produce another run is diminishing relative to the people who could use a generic black GP 9 with fore and aft ditch lights, paper filter box, and conspicuity stripes. This is just an observation by the prices and shelf time I see for NIB same ol' same ol' stuff compared to the more modern stuff. Maybe, maybe not. I buy mostly undecorated to letter ATLANTIC CENTRAL, beyond that I only buy first generation paint scheme B&O, C&O and WESTERN MARYLAND. I do have a fleet, 6 of this, 8 of that, 12 of those, etc, because I pull long trains. Every diesel mainline train is pulled by 3 to 6 units, most steam is double headed. And it is 1954...... I don't buy anything thst does not serve a purpose on the layout. Sheldon As you pointed out, as time passes, modelers have more choices about what to model. Also as time passes, the amount of time a locomotive looks "as-built" diminishes compared to the amount of time looking "as modified". If you want GP7s and GP9s as they looked in 1954, then those modifications don't matter obviously. But if for modelers who run GP38/40s, SDs, U boats, 23-7s, MP15s, or GP15s, what they look like in the past 20 years is mattering more and more than what they looked like as-built.
Agreed.
I don't spend a lot time looking at ANYTHING outside my era, but it seems to me I have seen a lot of later psint schemes with correct "modernized" details from a lot of manufacturers, just like the F7's I mentioned before.
But, if you buy it undecorated, it should come with all the detail parts and be able to be built "as built" unless advertised otherwise.
ATLANTIC CENTRALBut, if you buy it undecorated, it should come with all the detail parts and be able to be built "as built" unless advertised otherwise. Sheldon
Nothing stays as built for long..Even by '54 railroads started tweaking their stock GP7 with various railroad specific parts even if it was different types of horns like (say) from single "blat" horns to chime horns or added spark arrestors or all weather cab windows.
Don't worry, Walthers will rerun the 0-8-0, 2-8-8-2 or 2-10-2 at any time now.
At the obligatory minimum of $50 or a $100 more than the last identical run...........
Jeremy Centanni Don't worry, Walthers will rerun the 0-8-0, 2-8-8-2 or 2-10-2 at any time now. At the obligatory minimum of $50 or a $100 more than the last identical run...........
Apparently Jeremy missed this..
Steven Otte Let's not turn this into another "oh no the hobby is getting so expensive" thread, or I'll have to merge it.
Let's not turn this into another "oh no the hobby is getting so expensive" thread, or I'll have to merge it.
Also I just picked up a beautiful, lightly used, working 0-8-0 for $80.
So I dont see your point. I have found both dozens of 0-6-0s and 0-8-0s from the proto 2000 line for less than half of Walthers MSRP. And thats not what you pay anyway.
Bonus it was already lettered in my free-lance railroad, and it inspired me to contact Highball Grapics to check if he did the decals for it, which he did. I now have enough decals to reletter about 40 steam locomotives for my proto-freelanced road.
BMMECNYC Jeremy Centanni Don't worry, Walthers will rerun the 0-8-0, 2-8-8-2 or 2-10-2 at any time now. At the obligatory minimum of $50 or a $100 more than the last identical run........... Apparently Jeremy missed this.. Steven Otte Let's not turn this into another "oh no the hobby is getting so expensive" thread, or I'll have to merge it. Also I just picked up a beautiful, lightly used, working 0-8-0 for $80. So I dont see your point. I have found both dozens of 0-6-0s and 0-8-0s from the proto 2000 line for less than half of Walthers MSRP. And thats not what you pay anyway. Bonus it was already lettered in my free-lance railroad, and it inspired me to contact Highball Grapics to check if he did the decals for it, which he did. I now have enough decals to reletter about 40 steam locomotives for my proto-freelanced road.
I agree with you totally, got a 2-8-8-2 used for a dream price with a garbage weathering job and an 0-8-0 thats works flawlessly. But retail me not :-)
JEREMY CENTANNI Don't worry, Walthers will rerun the 0-8-0, 2-8-8-2 or 2-10-2 at any time now. At the obligatory minimum of $50 or a $100 more than the last identical run...........
Retail or street price, name one thing you buy that is the same price it was 5 or 10 years ago?
I have two of the 2-8-8-2, and two of the 0-8-0, did not pay retail, but consider them a great value at the prices I paid - new in the box, not yet touched by North American hands.
I paid $80 & $90 for two new 2nd run Proto 2000 0-8-0s...and that was 10 years ago. I recently bought a 1st run Proto 2000 0-8-0 (discounted) from a LHS but still paid well-below MSRP for it. (It had been sitting in the owner's display case for a while so I was happy to take it off his hands and his inventory.) Great little runners...