Mel,
Your post points out an important fact that many are unaware of or simply don't believe until someone shows them first hand. Just because Bachmann made a GS4 in 1980 that was poor quality, and just because the second version was only slightly better, those models have nothing to do with the current, completely retooled version made for the last 6-8 years now.
Nothing in the current Bachmann line is running on the same running gear as the older problematic "Plus" models. Only a few are even running on older original Spectrum drives, and they have proven themselves to be great models - like the 2-8-0.
All of the regular line has been retooled, or at minimum had known flaws corrected.
The "newer" regular line locos have drives similar in design and quality to the whole history of the Spectrum line. What Bachmann has done is put more focus on good drives and reasonable detail, and less focus on high detail, that is why there are fewer Spectrum pieces these days.
The market seems to be going back to the idea that there is a "good enough" level of detail for many modelers and Bachmann, Walthers, Athearn and others seem to be responding.
I like a well detailed model as much as the next guy, but if you are into operation, or if your modeling "vision" is the "big picture" on a moderately large layout, every piece need not be some down to the last pipe bracket wonder of modern manufacturing.......at ever upward costs.
The three manufactuers mentioned seem to be responding to that viewpoint.
I'm not complaining about prices, I just received my four B&O wagon top covers hoppers from Spring Mills at $50 each, and was happy to pay it for such a great model, but not every freight car in my 1000 car fleet is of that caliber, nor does it need to be, and none of my locos cost more than $300....in fact my dollar cost average per powered unit for my 130 loco fleet is just over $100 each......
But then again, no DCC or sound here........
Sheldon
5150WS6I have added small pieces of styrene painted black to any point that could even in a long shot touch or rub.
You didn't happen to install one of these where it would interfere with something, did you?
One person who we have not heard from yet is Howard Zane. Howard has just about as much experience with brass as anybody. He has bought and sold it for years and runs it extensively. I would try sending him a PM (Personal Message). If he doesn't know the answer(s) than he would certainly be able to steer you in the right direction, maybe to a forum dedicated to brass, or someone who sorts these things out for a living.
http://cs.trains.com/members/howard-zane/default.aspx
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Is steam worth a headache? Or, is your steam worth a headache? Frrom what I am reading here, I would conclude that your steam is not worth a headache.
I have a good mix of steam and diesel on my layout. I have never had a tracking problem with a diesel, but I have had plenty of problems with steam. Most of my problems were caused by track work. I admit it. But, here is what I have found.
For steam to run properly, the track work needs to be bullet proof to accommodate those driver wheels. No kinks, no peaks nor valleys. All curves must be soldered, no exceptions.
As far as radius is concerned, in my experience, there is no way to run a 4-8-4 on a 26" radius curve. I have a formula for steam. Multiply the number of drivers by 4 and that is you minimum radius curve. So, a 4-8-4 needs a 32" radius curve.
On my prior layout, I had minimum radius curves of 28" and that was a problem for steam. On my current layout, the minimum radius curve is 32". For awhile, I ran some 2-10-2 steam and 2-10-4 steam. I finally gave up and sold those two locos. It wasn't worth the headache.
Now, someone will come along on this thread and say, Nonsense, I run 4-8-4 steam on 18" radius curves. Check that guy's medicine cabinet and you will see that he takes pills for migraines.
Rich
Alton Junction
5150WS6 I really appreciate the input of the go buy a Bachmann.....but I have been burned by them in the past and have boycotted them for years. Just my personal experience. I would get a Broadway but in contacting them, they aren't doing another run for years it sounds like. Mike(No longer that frustrated)
I really appreciate the input of the go buy a Bachmann.....but I have been burned by them in the past and have boycotted them for years. Just my personal experience. I would get a Broadway but in contacting them, they aren't doing another run for years it sounds like.
Mike(No longer that frustrated)
Mike, I hope you figure out the problem with the loco you have. That said, it would be unfair to judge current Bachmann models based on some experiance you had years, or decades, ago.
Bachmann has made some duds over the years, but in the last decade their quality and design has advanced significantly and most of their products are very good now. I have over thirty Bachmann steamers and everyone is a good running, well detailed locomotive - I can't say that about every piece of Broadway I have purchased.......
I don't have the new Bachmann GS4, I don't model SP nor do I "collect" stuff outside my layout theme. But I have a friend who has the new production GS4 and it is a fine looking and running model from what I have seen, and again, very affordable.
It has long been my belief that it is bad policy to judge these products by the brand, every company in this industry has a few dogs now and again, every company has some real winners.
Example, would I buy and older production Bachmann N&W J - no, it is a known problem child, but my ten Heavy Mountains, ten 2-8-0's, five Berkshires, five 2-6-6-2's, three 2-10-2's and two 4-6-0's all run great.
I have a number of great pieces from Broadway, two N&W 2-6-6-4's, two Reading T1's, but I have two of their USRA heavy 2-8-2's which required total ground up rebuilding to turn into good runners..........
You keep mentioning Athearn, and I'm a big Athearn fan, but be careful with Athearn steam - I've heard both good and bad about all the Genesis steam. Again, not being a west coast modeler I don't personally have any of their locos.
Also, I've been using Atlas Custom Line turnouts since the code 83 line was introduced - no problems here. Before that I hand laid my track and turnouts, and still do for special stuff, but I'm not sold on the need for, or benifits of, any of the more exspensive turnout brands........
Good luck,
7j43kThere (usually) is no way to adjust sideplay, especially when you want more.
And sometimes, the only cure for that is blind drivers.
Look how fat these Broadway Limited I1s drivers are:
(Never mind the cracked nylon gear!) It would probably be a tough call to make but maybe this engine should have been offered with blind drivers on #3 & 4. Just turning the flange off may not help since the tire would need to be wider and, as you see in the photo, tapered toward the center.
I have 30" mainline curves and I sometimes see the center drivers of longer wheelbase engines where there's nothing but air under the tire. Somehow, they rerail themselves when back on tangent track. (By design? Or just my dumb luck?)
Bushing/bearing? If it has a rotating member and carries weight I call it a bearing. If a hole is sloppy and the screw is smaller than the hole I use a bushing. You can see the notches in the bearings on the axle in the photo above. Sometimes it is easy to miss a small detail like that during reassembly, as Paul points out, and it will cause tracking problems.
Glad you are working things out! There IS a solution here, ever so evasive...
Ed
You vultures! Like I would sell this beautiful loco to anyone that didn't have some sort of SP in their tag line or avatar!
LOL!
7j43kI am surprised an 8 coupled loco with 80" drivers might not make 36". Truly, it might be approaching time to sell it to me for $150. Or maybe $175.
Hey 7j43k, keep your grubby paws off of the cheap offers. I saw this deal first.
CG
5150WS6 BUT, that being said. Even pushing the loco around the 36" curve by hand with no weight, there was significant binding between the rails and the wheels. It was noticable. And from what I can see the wheelsets are all to specs of what they should be width wise. Mike
BUT, that being said. Even pushing the loco around the 36" curve by hand with no weight, there was significant binding between the rails and the wheels. It was noticable.
And from what I can see the wheelsets are all to specs of what they should be width wise.
Mike
(I see we're all staying up late with this.)
We've got to the part that inspires a bit of anxiety.
I am surprised an 8 coupled loco with 80" drivers might not make 36". Truly, it might be approaching time to sell it to me for $150. Or maybe $175.
But I still lean towards some thoughtful analysis.
Which won't be coming from me, tonight, as I am off to dreamland.
Of course, a person could wonder where the bind is. My pal, other-Ed, has suggested brake hangers. And then there's........
Nighty night,
OK, I lied. I'm still up.
An interesting test (for me, and maybe for you) would be to turn the loco upside down. And tickle its belly. No, not really.
Anyway, with your supply of hands or tentacles, you shove the front and rear drivers over to one side, and the two others towards the other. Place a straightedge between the front and rear and measure the offset.
Smart folks who know things will say that you can derive the "absolute" minimum radius of the assembly from that.
5150WS6 Man you guys are awesome.
Man you guys are awesome.
Quite true, you know.
When the lead weight was installed it did seem to be all level with the ground.
We'll accept "seem" for now--good that you looked.
The one thing I don't know and never adjusted.....and no sure if you even can, is the side to side movement of the main driver wheels/axles. Should there be any play there? And if so how much? And if there isn't any and should be some, is there a way to adjust that? That to me would help I feel but am not sure how much is needed or required.
There (usually) is no way to adjust sideplay, especially when you want more. But it's a bit early to get too anxious.
I wish I had another steam like the Athearn to see how they get their 4-8-4 through the curve and where the differences are. I would think a 4-8-4 would be the same plastic or brass. You are still getting the same number of wheels to get through that curve. I just am not sure where the extra play is. Maybe the plastics are super sloppy?
Essentially , yes.
As it should be.
Paul,
So when you say bearings on the lead driver....do you mean bushing? This loco just has a spring pushing down on a brass bushing that looks to be exactly square. The axle seems to be centered directly in the center of the bushing. So I'm not sure it would make a difference if it was upsidedown or not? I can get the calipers out and confirm. The bushing actually looks exactly square top, bottom and sides......but I'll confirm.
Thanks,Mike
Dave,
Just read your post. I will check. I was super careful not to overtighten the drive gear or anything and there is some slop side to side. Very little but it's there. I'm just not sure how much is there. Rolling the loco without the gearbox and motor didn't show any noticable binding or issues there. But I will loosen things up and try again. Putting my hand on top of the loco seemed to help some vs just pushing from behind.
Part of the problem also is I realized I didn't have any weight in the loco when I was testing it in the corner. That will have caused a huge amount of the issues.
Any brass is more finicky than plastic, and brass steam is even more so. Learning how to fix it makes one a better modeler, IMHO. Patience is the key.
As for what could be wrong with your SP Daylight, I had a similar problem with a friend's B&M 2-10-4. The lead driver would just not stay on the track on any curve, and yet the wheels were all in gauge. You'd put in straight track, and it ran no problem, but into a curve and off the lead driver went.
After investigating, I eventually found the problem: someone had installed the lead driver bearing on one side upsidedown. This caused the bearing to jam when it hit a bump, and when it jammed, it got stuck just a little tiny bit, lifting the driver slightly on one side. When the flange of the lead drive then hit a curve, it climed the rail and off she went.My friend was all set to sell the troublesome loco on eBay, which would have been a shame since it's a beautiful model. Instead, with a simple flipping over of one bearing, he's now got a workhorse of a model that runs great.
I hope your trouble is as simple to find and fix.
Man you guys are awesome. Thanks for all the response. Let me see if I can answer questions or input given. Forgive me if I forget one or don't answer any questions.
So regarding the track.(an no offense taken there) The track is just flextrack on cork but when we laid it we were pretty surgical and made sure everything was smooth with no kinks or fluctuations. We have had a couple issues with having to tear up track but that's because were on a budget and used Atlas switches which I regret doing. All in all though we have the track pretty dialed though and is pretty darn good.
As for the loco. After I blew the first decoder I have eliminated all shorts. I have added small pieces of styrene painted black to any point that could even in a long shot touch or rub. And I am also running a large capacitor. So far the loco on the straights runs good. The loco has all the wheels on the left isolated so it serves as the right side track pick up and the tender has the opposite so it provides the left. Again, I have literally spent hours with a volt meter checking and rechecking. The DCC side of things doesn't seem to be causing any issues here.
That also being said I have the leading and trailing trucks off the loco. To completely eliminate the issue of them. The loco runs perfect on straight track. When I initially took it apart I was also very surgical and making sure I didn't change any of the wheel sets around. Lead axles were left in lead, trailing were left in trailing. I took pics and basically looked for worn or broken parts. Honestly the only thing that needed replacing were the fiber/plastic shims that kept the tender and frame of the loco from touching on the connecting bar and the motor.
The motor was swapped out with a NWSL motor and connector kit. As mentioned before I always check for binding because binding is not efficient and non efficient stuff causes heat which is bad for electronic. So when I pulled all the axles off and then replaced them I checked for binding. None. Then tested all the running gear and connecting rods. Again, they were all smooth. The gearbox was also torn apart and it showed very little wear but time had taken all the grease or lube out of it. So it was put back together and regreased and runs smooooooth as butter. So binding running straight is not an issue.
Now for the answer of how the drivers are. They are sprung. At least three are. the 3rd one back is the driver and connected to the gearbox and is not sprung that I can tell or see. All the springs are present and accounted for and the wheels move up and down just fine. When I set the loco on a smooth surface the front wheels are a small small hair higher than the rest of the wheelsets. But that's with no weight in it at all. Just a bare frame. When the lead weight was installed it did seem to be all level with the ground.
The one thing I don't know and never adjusted.....and no sure if you even can, is the side to side movement of the main driver wheels/axles. Should there be any play there? And if so how much? And if there isn't any and should be some, is there a way to adjust that? That to me would help I feel but am not sure how much is needed or required.I wish I had another steam like the Athearn to see how they get their 4-8-4 through the curve and where the differences are. I would think a 4-8-4 would be the same plastic or brass. You are still getting the same number of wheels to get through that curve. I just am not sure where the extra play is. Maybe the plastics are super sloppy?
I will try to take pics of what I've got and get it posted tomorrow. I really appreciate the input of the go buy a Bachmann.....but I have been burned by them in the past and have boycotted them for years. Just my personal experience. I would get a Broadway but in contacting them, they aren't doing another run for years it sounds like.
I model mostly SP just before the closure and conversion.....and there would just be something sweet to have 4449 roll through the yard full of diesel's and honestly it would make my dad a pretty happy guy. So that's part of why this is frustrating. We do this together as a team as an excuse to spend time together as he ages. And as much as he's tried to embrace my diesel era he really is a steam guy and as much as he says he understands I know it would make his day to have that loco crankin around the layout.
Thanks again for the input. I've calmed down and regrouped myself so I'm ready to try things that you guys suggest.
Drive wheel gauge - yes by all means check the gauge of all wheels including pilot and tracking truck in addition to drivers. And checking the trackwork where tangent meets curve is always in order too.
On many brass steam engines the pilot truck is so rigidly mounted that it does not function as it should to "lead" the front pair of drivers into the curve. I would look carefully at the mounting of the Pilot truck.
Sometimes removing the side rods and valve gear during painting or tune up work, and then re-attaching them, can create a binding that prevents side play in the drivers, in effect drastically increasing the minimum radius of the locomotive. There should be at least a little looseness all around on each drive wheel in terms of lateral movement. It is also possible to re-install the drivers, if they were removed as part of the fine tuning, without fully setting them freely in their bearings. This is even possible with a steam locomotive meant for trainset curves such as the Mantua/Tyco 2-8-2 and 4-6-2. There, the danger over an over tight cover over the gear as that could bind the axles.
Assuming wheels and track checked for gauge, remove the motor. Is it now easy or difficult to push the locomotive (as if it was a child's floor toy) around those curves? Can you physically feel where the binding starts? Does it differ whether it is your hand on top of the loco pushing down, versus pushing the tender?
Now try the same thing with both motor and pilot truck removed.
Deep down my hunch based on experience is a problem with the pilot truck coupled with drivers with inadequate side play possibly due to over tight main rods and perhaps valve gear.
Dave Nelson
5150WS6 Ok. I'm beginning to understand why model railroading is more of a retired man's hobby. Maybe I'm working too much, too much stress and just don't have the quality time to enjoy the hobby right now but for the past few months or so it's been a nightmare and not an enjoyable thing anymore. For years the SP 4449 has been my ultimate model. Colors, looks, sound....always amazed me. And being close to Portland to see her in person a few years ago just about did me in! Amazing! That being said here's my dilema and I'm hoping you guys can breath some life back into this and help me lose the frustration. Simple layout. I've crammed the biggest layout I can fit in a two car garage. 14x22 or something close. The curves are not a bad radius at 36" down to a 26" I think....could be more like 28" though. My issue is this. I have a brass Westside Model's 4449 Daylight. I've rebuilt it from the running gear to the gearbox and all the bushings and oiled and it runs smooth like butter. Then I spend weeks working out the DCC conversion. Blew my first decoder and think I have the kinks worked out and now just running around the model with a volt meter looking for any possibilities of a short. This is where the nightmare continues. I logically thought, let me put it on the track on a curve to make sure that none of the running gear hits and shorts, or binds or anything. I cannot get it to go around any curve. Not the small one, medium or outside 36" radius! It binds, throws the front wheels of the "8" part of the 4-8-4 off the track. Slow, fast, pulling, solo.....it will not go around any of the radius period. Do I just need to sell it and get the PA1-PB1 set up?(Which sucks compared to the 4449 in my book) I'm completely frustrated and feel like I've spend an the past few months for nothing because even though it runs I can't get it to turn? I'm strictly a diesel guy so maybe I'm missing something? Maybe steam isn't supposed to run on that type of corner? The Ahearn 4-8-4 Northern says 22" minimum. I'm running no where near that tight even on my tightest inside radius. Hoping you guys can give me some input here as to what I'm missing. :( Frustrated
Ok. I'm beginning to understand why model railroading is more of a retired man's hobby. Maybe I'm working too much, too much stress and just don't have the quality time to enjoy the hobby right now but for the past few months or so it's been a nightmare and not an enjoyable thing anymore.
For years the SP 4449 has been my ultimate model. Colors, looks, sound....always amazed me. And being close to Portland to see her in person a few years ago just about did me in! Amazing!
That being said here's my dilema and I'm hoping you guys can breath some life back into this and help me lose the frustration.
Simple layout. I've crammed the biggest layout I can fit in a two car garage. 14x22 or something close. The curves are not a bad radius at 36" down to a 26" I think....could be more like 28" though.
My issue is this. I have a brass Westside Model's 4449 Daylight. I've rebuilt it from the running gear to the gearbox and all the bushings and oiled and it runs smooth like butter. Then I spend weeks working out the DCC conversion. Blew my first decoder and think I have the kinks worked out and now just running around the model with a volt meter looking for any possibilities of a short. This is where the nightmare continues.
I logically thought, let me put it on the track on a curve to make sure that none of the running gear hits and shorts, or binds or anything.
I cannot get it to go around any curve. Not the small one, medium or outside 36" radius! It binds, throws the front wheels of the "8" part of the 4-8-4 off the track. Slow, fast, pulling, solo.....it will not go around any of the radius period.
Do I just need to sell it and get the PA1-PB1 set up?(Which sucks compared to the 4449 in my book)
I'm completely frustrated and feel like I've spend an the past few months for nothing because even though it runs I can't get it to turn?
I'm strictly a diesel guy so maybe I'm missing something? Maybe steam isn't supposed to run on that type of corner? The Ahearn 4-8-4 Northern says 22" minimum. I'm running no where near that tight even on my tightest inside radius.
Hoping you guys can give me some input here as to what I'm missing. :(
Frustrated
As someone else asked, have you tried running it on tangent (i.e. straight) track? If it's going to run anywhere, that should do it and then work your way into curves starting with the widest radius curves first and working your way into tighter radii. That being said, I wouldn't even think of running a Westside GS-4 on any radius tighter than 30" even on straight DC. The old brass engines just don't have the flexibility that the newer non-brass models.
Then there's the issue of the fact that the old brass was never designed to be run with DCC. The basic electric pickup is that the engine picks up on on the non-insulated drive wheels and the non-insulated tender wheels which pick up from the opposite rail. Newer engines designed for DCC usage have contact wipers on both sides of the drivers as well as both sides of the tender wheels, which gives more contact area for a more reliable pickup (at least theoretically).
I just got back from an operating session a couple of hours ago where 3 brass engines, all DCC and sound equipped, were used. The 0-6-0 (Sunset Southern Pacific S-14) in the yard didn't seem to have any problems. It's a short wheelbase engine used on #6 turnout and mostly straight track. Second engine was a Westside SP P-10 Pacific. Again, this is a relatively short wheelbase engine (3 sets of 73" drivers) running on minimum 32" radius curves. Don't recall there was a problem with that engine, although there are at least 3 areas of the layout marked with Post-it notes that this particular engine was prone to run into problems.
The third brass engine was a Westside MT-5 4-8-2. This is a longer wheelbase (4 sets of 73" drivers) engine, but it wasn't the 32" minimum radius curves that caused problems, but it would frequently lose power on the frogs of turnouts (#6 Fast Tracks hand built). I haven't seen the underside of the engine to see how the pickup is wired, but my guess is the engine still does current pickup in the classic brass tradition.
Assuming your Westside still has the classic brass electrical pickup system would go a long way towards explaining why it's giving you fits. There were 2 GS-4's running during today's operating session, but they were both recent BLI engines and were designed with DCC and sound up front. There was also another SP 4-8-2 on the layout, an older Athearn MT-4. Ran like a champ, but again, it was designed with DCC and sound in mind from the get-go.
I really recommend you remove the lead and trailing trucks on the engine and start testing it on straight track first and then try curves, largest radius first. You also need to run it through turnouts to see if it stalls on frogs. The Westside MT-5 mentioned above went through the straight side of turnouts and would stall about 1/3 of the time. Probably needs a keep alive capacitor at a minimum and an improved electrical pickup system. If you've got the patience to build an improved system for your GS-4 that will pick up from both sides of the driver and tender axles to give more contact points, go for it. Otherwise, I'd recommend selling the thing and getting a BLI unit.
This is from an Australian site, but it shows pics of adding pickups to brass engines and tenders. http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nswmn1/ExtraPickUps.htm
Even improving the pickup on the just the tender might help a bit (assuming the loco's not shorting on curves). http://www.alaskarails.org/modeling/PD-electrical-pickup.html
More examples: http://www.7thstreetgroups.com/shops/7th_Street_Shops_DCC_Installation.htm
Improving the pickup will only help, however, if the loco doesn't short out on curves.
Hope this helps.
Andre
Sorry to hear of troubles.
I am running a new brass big 4-8-2 made in 2011 (years after they stopped trying to make them go around tight radius) on curves as tight as 26.38 inch radius (converted from metric Kato radius). But there can be no kinks either horizontal or vertical at track joints. In my case the locking feature of Kato unitrack prevents horizontal kinks. I re-laid parts of my layout to 36 inch radius but there are portions of mainline at the 26.38 radius that function fine.
I only have a couple brass steamers but they are worth it, and worth the minor track adjustments and fiddling with superelevation.
I love my steamers and wouldnt trade them for any diesels. I do have one GP7 and one U25B but they are only there to give the brass steam the occasional break.
Most recent brass has stainless steel drive wheels for excellent electrical pickup and long term durability. They may not be cheap but they will run and run well.
Maybe get a tech to check the old Westside. It should work great if all is in order.
John
All problems aside, yes, there is a true beauty to steam. I'd always been a diesel guy, but one day I saw an 0-6-0 in my LHS, just running around the store layout with sound. I was totally hooked, like being smitten by a beautiful woman. Since then, I've acquired a copy of that engine, along with a few other steamers. I've added steam-era rolling stock and vehicles, too, so that I can make my layout dual-era. I've even got a few structure kits that will take the place of my more modern buildings when I set the Wayback Machine to steam.
It's not just steam, although the physical action and sounds of the locomotives are awesome, but the entire ambiance of days gone by that drive me back in time. Yes, keep up the effort. It will be worth it.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
One way to take your trackwork out of the equation is to buy a pack of Kato Unitrak for the radius it's GOTTA take and see how it fits on that.
And my apologies for maligning your trackwork. Which may well be stellar.
If it helps, I, too, have seen 4449 a few times. One time from a signal bridge directly overhead. It IS a beautiful loco.
Some steam engines don't have flanges on the middle drivers. When you had it apart for maintenance, did you get the flanged and non-flanged wheels mixed up? ( if that is even posible )
Some things have changed, but which have contributed to your downfall? Is it new items on the locomotive? Different geometry now that is has been reassembled? Is something binding that wasn't when you got it? Say the running gear? Have you changed the wheel gauges, even if inadvertently? Is the gauge correct around the places where it binds or derails?
I wonder if the builders meant for that locomotive to run on the tightest curves you have to offer it?
I have a friend who runs a considerable amount of brass steam on his railroad using DCC.It took a LOT of fiddling to eliminate all the shorts, as mentioned above.Don't give up, or hire a pro.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Yeah, it's too early to bail, yet.
One thing I'll note is that Frustrated never actually said he ran it on a straight. He probably did, but it's important to be very accurate when describing these things.
I agree with other-Ed that taking off the lead and trailing trucks aughta be done for testing. The loco really doesn't need them, and you might be able to see better.
I'm hearing "derailment on a curve". Especially on the lead axle. I do wonder if all wheels are sittin' on the rail. If it was here, I'd put it on my surface block that has rail grooves and check for clearance at each wheel. Shouldn't be any.
Next I think I'd put the de-trucked loco on one of the curves where it derails and wiggle it side to side. If it just don't, it hints that there's not enough lateral motion. Which you may or may not feel like dealing with.
And let's not forget wheel gage. Tell us you put your trusty NMRA gage on the flanges.
There MIGHT be a problem with the track. Even if you don't see it. I've got a buddy with a module where everything goes through except my OMI C-636's. I squinted downtrack and found an oops. And yet, HE just can't see it. I do. And that's the ONLY place on our various setups where they derail.
Good luck. And don't give up. It's way too early!
PS: Sounds like a geat loco.
ATLANTIC CENTRALBachmann has an amazingly good looking and good running GS4 for a very modest price compaired to brass........
Currently available at model train stuff here.
I would give up on the brass one. A hobby is meant for fun.
Enjoy
Paul
I often ran brass steam, a friend even brought over his big 'ol B&O EM-1—which is an articulated 2-8-8-4— back when my layout was DC powered. They all ran reasonably well, some better than others.
If I ran them with the room lights down low they often looked like the old Dogem cars, blue sparks shooting out from everywhere. The DC ammeter would spike but the engines kept on rolling.
Now, enter DCC! A whole new ballgame...
Even the slightest short will stop everything dead. Keep Alive capacitors are NO cure for a short and as you have discovered can cook a decoder very quickly.
Keep alive may help with sporadic pickup issues but once the frame shorts it kills everything.
I have maybe a dozen brass engines that I regularly run and every one will give me some sort of interruption or another during the course of an operating session. Some are better than others but they all need a little nudge now and then.
As others have suggested, you have to go over every square millimeter and be CERTAIN that a trailing truck frame, cab apron, pilot truck centering spring, fiber thrust washer on the axles (often these are used to insulate wheels from the metal truck frames) and eliminate every possibility of even the slightest short. Does it have metal brake shoes on the drivers? Some are plastic but the older engines sometimes had brass ones.
Take some small bits of Kapton tape and apply it on some of the places where there is close metal-to-metal areas and by trial-and-error see if you can eliminate any possible shorts that way.
Try removing both pilot and trailing trucks and see if operation improves, then put them back on one at a time and try to narrow down if they might be a problem. Even a handrail that touches between the cab and tender will shut you down.
How much lateral play do you have between the frame and the back side of the drivers? There has to be a bit of play between the side rods, drivers and frame.
Are the driving boxes sprung? Can you press down on the boiler and see each driver move up and down? Maybe one of the springs is binding, or even missing?
Keep on trying to narrow down the possibilities. I had a friend bring over a brass engine that he said was driving him nuts with the short circuits. Before I put it on the layout I gave it a once over. Hummm, the whole pilot truck was on backwards! You could see which wheels were insulated and they were on the wrong side.
Best Of Luck, Don't give up just yet!
Sometimes, the right answer is "hire a professional." I know jack-doodily-doo about steam, but I know a lot about being so frustrated you want to take a baseball bat to a locomotive.There are people out there who do this sort of stuff; a couple of hundred bucks may be a cheap price to pay to avoid getting your blood pressure up over 200, tearing your hair out, and throwing a brass steam engine out a second floor window.
OK, steam 101, model or prototype - the controlling factor with curves is rigid wheel base and driver side play. A GS4 has long rigid wheel base, it has four axles with very large drivers.
I'm not familiar with the specific loco in question, and maybe some our brass collector experts will see this a speak up, but I would think it should go around a 36" radius curve......26" might be a different story.
But here is the thing, your curves need to be smooth and consisant, preferably with easements. How carefully did you layout these curves?
It seldom makes sense to build a model layout with a wide mix of different radius curves, unless you simply have excess room and can do some extra large cosmentic curves. I have been at this hobby for 46 years, and for my money, anything less than 36" curves is a waste of time in HO if you expect to run big mainline equipment like a GS4.
Based on the limited info you have provided, it sounds like a trackwork problem.
The modern die cast/plastic locos from the major manufacturers are generally designed for 22/24" radius, but will perform better and look better on larger curves as well.
Bachmann has an amazingly good looking and good running GS4 for a very modest price compaired to brass........
Well that's the problem Tom, when I bought it I was already set up in DCC and never even had the chance to run it on DC. It had obvious running wear though. The motor worked and everything was smooth but like I said I just pulled it apart to replace worn pieces. And for honestly in all the running gear it was fine. There wasn't any wear bad enough that I had to replace any of that. But I did oil and just make sure it ran smooth. I started with just the wheels, the rolled smooth, then added running gear, it also ran smoooth and then added the gearbox into the equation. All ran smooth. So I'm not sure where the bind could be coming from but there's definitely something not right.