Mike,
You can bottom feed for the MTH model on Ebay and do quite well if you are patient. And....
Are you sure you really want to leave this behind?
or
Just messing with ya...
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
LensCapOn ^^^^^^^^ OP talked about seeing 4449 running, more than a bit, so 611 won't have the same pull for him. 611, 844, 4449, MAGIC numbers there.
^^^^^^^^
OP talked about seeing 4449 running, more than a bit, so 611 won't have the same pull for him.
611, 844, 4449, MAGIC numbers there.
How could you forget 765?
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
LensCapOn So let's end this with a video of the real 4449 running free. Gee! why would anyone want one of those? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7FwzbCLSNQ
So let's end this with a video of the real 4449 running free.
Gee! why would anyone want one of those?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7FwzbCLSNQ
I'll see your GS-4 and raise you a class J... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWjQTpttH5c
I think I've made my decision. Dave gave me the number of a pro and I will be contacting him. So thanks for that Dave, I appreciate your leg work there.
In the mean time I'm going to finish ordering the BLI Daylight cars to finish off my consist and then order the Bachmann version. I'm going to rip all the speakers and decoder out of the brass version and convert it back to DC just to work out the kinks in the running gear.
I'll just upgrade the Bachmann and hold off until something better comes along.There's a chance that a new house will be coming in the next 5 years, and if that's the case I plan on building a ginormous shop that will have the complete upstairs as a shelf layout....and that will let us build a layout that might be a little more steam friendly. And hopefully the pro can either help me fix the brass or is able to work on it himself to make it run. If he's willing to do the DCC conversion I'll have him start fresh there as well.
I appreciate all your guys input. But it's now come down to a time vs money thing and as much as I love wrenching on stuff, I just have too much layout to finish to mess with the Daylight. :( Not giving up nor selling it. Just going to see what the pro can do and then set it to the side for now.
And as it is, I just got my Daylight bible in the mail and I've got a lot to do to super detail the BLI cars to match the schematics in the book! So I'll shift my attention to those for now to satisfy my need to work on the dream train!
Mike
5150WS6 Stix And I confirmed with Broadway Limited. They have NO plans of rerunning the Daylight. So that option is out.
Stix
And I confirmed with Broadway Limited. They have NO plans of rerunning the Daylight. So that option is out.
Well, AHM/Rivarossi haven't made any HO passenger cars in 20 years, but I just bought one last month. If you search around the web, train shows, hobby shops, etc. long enough, you'll find one.
Based on the discussion, this is a case where the right experience guy watching it run will likely tell you right away what is wrong and what can be done to make it right.
the notion that it works on straight sections, but derails on curves is pointing to something specific. The drivers need the leading and trailing trucks to turn with any speed. 0-x-0 switchers were limited in speed running.
I do not remember anyone asking about the number of flanged drivers. If all four wheels on each side have flanges, then there has to be some side to side play in the driver wheels. This can cause problems with the driver rods. Another way that these were set up to do curves was to leave the flanges off the center set of drivers. on a x-8-x the second and third drivers would be flange less. The flanges are creating two straight lines. If you have four flanges, that put four points on that line. This conflicts with the curve arc. The result will be a derailment, likely the front wheels. Side to side movement allows the drivers to creat an arc, more consistent with the curve arc. If the middle flangs are removed, the two points left on the line do not cause a bind unless the curve is very sharp.
Just a thought, hope it helps.
So many trains, so little time,
Larry
www.llxlocomotives.com
5150SWS6,
No, as mentioned before the styrene pieces were on the trailing "4" wheels and those have been removed. The only thing on the track is the "8" of the 4-8-4. And the "8" didnt have any styrene in them. So that shouldn't be a factor.
Think I'm going to just send it off. I'm frustrated and would rather spend what time I have running or working on scenery than just continually smashing my head into a wall over it. And I confirmed with Broadway Limited. They have NO plans of rerunning the Daylight. So that option is out.
Dave, thanks for the PM. My frustration level with the loco is growing again and my time is just too tight these days to spend much more time messing with it. I will get in touch with Jan and see what he says. Thanks for that!
The largest minimum radius I've ever seen for an HO engine was a CP 2-10-4 that needed 30"R curves - although, in a review, it easily went around Kato Unitrack 28"R curves. If this engine won't go around a 36"R curve, there's something wrong with it. Even if you had the room, I wouldn't consider increasing my curve radius.
Before giving up, I'd take it / send it to someone else to look at. Sometimes when working on something we just get too close to it, and overlook something that might prove obvious to a fresh set of eyes.
p.s. I'm still wondering if any of those black styrene pieces you added to prevent shorts were anywhere near the wheels, and could be restricting lateral play?
Mike:
I sent Howard Zane a PM asking for his advice. He has had no direct experience with your particular locomotive although he was aware of it. He suggested getting in touch with "...a real expert..." Jan Willard. I have his phone number. I will send you a PM.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Central--I'm sorry I forgot to mention that. I did check the wheels and the track. Both are correct as far as the gauge.
Rich--I wish I could expand, but I'm already pushing the limits of the garage as it is. No room for wider. And as far as we are along I wouldn't tear up a railroad layout just for one loco to run around the widest loop. I'd keep it as a paperweight. I can't do high maintenance locos! LOL!
I just did a search on all three pages of this thread. While plenty of people mentioned checking the wheels with an NMRA gauge, I did not find any mention of the OP actually doing that.
Did I miss it somewhere, or has that still not been done?
Would the locomotive perform better on a wider radius curves?
And, if so, do you have the room to widen the curves?
Rich
Alton Junction
I'm sort of regretting the fact that you might be right David. What sucks is I have it remotored, decoder installed with lights and sound all ready to go. Sort of sucks to get to this point to have to rip everything out and scrap the idea. But unfortunately it's looking more and more like something I might just do.
I have had many brass steam engines in the past. Although I love the detail that can be done in brass the running gear leaves allot to deal with. Most mfgs. Never spent the time on the running ability of they're brass steam engines, IMO.
I never wanted to take the time and effort to get them to run like they should and trying to add dcc to older brass is a total waste of time IMO.
It would be best to shelf it and buy something more modern and save yourself all the frustration of trying to get it to run correctly.
I have seen both the MTH and BLI Daylight. After some research I would probably lean towards the BLI but they are few and far between to find them. Even had a buddy at the LHS call BLI direct and they said they have no plans on rerunning the Daylight anytime soon. :(
One thought for your ultimate plans.
IF you cannot make your Brass model take your reasonable curves, AND you purchase a quality current model that satisfys your need for a 4449....
What could you $ell the Bra$$ one for? (Self funding is a good thing!)
5150WS6 I'm waivering on the Bachmann just because there are no other choices for the 4449 Daylight which sucks. But that might have to do in the meantime.
I'm waivering on the Bachmann just because there are no other choices for the 4449 Daylight which sucks. But that might have to do in the meantime.
BLI makes excellent steam engines, including a model of 4449. You can get it with or without sound installed. Even if BLI doesn't currently have it in stock, I'd bet you could find it (for a lot less than list price) if you shop around.
http://www.broadway-limited.com/bli-2027nycj1ehudson4-6-45396cccandstlblockletteringparagon2sounddcdccho-1-2.aspx
You said "I have added small pieces of styrene painted black to any point that could even in a long shot touch or rub." Were any of these near the drivers, where it might inhibit the drivers from having any lateral / side-to-side play? Most engines need some play to get around curves.
What code rail are you using? If it's less than code 100, and you have a very old brass engine, it might be it has flanges that won't work on code 83 or code 70 track.
If you haven't tried it yet, I would take the earlier suggestion and get some Kato Unitrack or similar "click track" and try running the engine through a curve and see what happens. Layouts need to be fine-tuned for each engine running on it, and engine that never derails on the owner's home layout might derail on a friend's layout.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/39915/507540.aspx
Clickable link.
This old forum thread offers lots of great info on the model in question (spoiler - apparently they are known to need some more sideways movement in the drivers)
PRR8259 I must respectfully suggest trying harder to find a good tech
I am of two minds. On one hand I agree with Ed to seek professional help. On the other hand, if you are confident enough to improve the side play in the drivers yourself, then go for it. You will be taking a bit of a risk of course, but unless you take a cutting torch to the thing, you really can't destroy the locomotive. Yes, you may have to replace the bushings if you mess them up. Yes, you may have to re-inforce the frame if you remove too much of it. Neither of those tasks are insurmountable. Yes, you should invest some money in the proper tools, i.e. a NWSL wheel puller and Quarter. Personally, I would attempt the work myself just for the experience and enjoyment of having solved the problem on my own.
However, there is a perfect compromize between sending it away for repair and trying the repair on your own. What you really need before doing anything is sound, knowledgeable advice. For the love of Pete, contact Howard Zane!!!! What do you have to lose by talking to him?!?
http://cs.trains.com/members/howard-zane/default.aspx
Respectfully,
P.S.
I hope you understand that I am not trying to be disrespectful, but this thread is tearing me up! Can you tell? I refuse to ever let one of my locomotives become a shelf queen.
As one who has disassembled brass diesels and had them run badly after I reassembled them I must respectfully suggest trying harder to find a good tech before commencing my own machine work. A good tech might have it all fixed up for a reasonable sum and less frustration.
Again, there was an MTH Daylight too. They should be out there...multiple runs. They smoke and light well.
If you pull the wheels, thinning down the bearings should be pretty simple. The trick is putting the wheels back.
Doing that has struck fear in the heart of modelers for over half a century. You likely will want to familiarize yourself with this (NWSL quartering jig):
Ed
Shoot. You're right. Not sure how I forgot about that part. Geez. Ok back to the drawing board!
Looking at sanding down bushings/bearings.Mike
5150WS6Now that has me thinking of something else. So if those wheels are just pressed on the axle.....theoretically couldn't I just push that axle in just a hair and then it would force the wheel out a bit creating more room? That is one part I hadn't adjusted or messed with.
Moving the wheels outwards on the axles will most likely put them out of gauge. They are already tight on the track by the sounds of things.
Even if you only move them "a hair" they will have a tendancy to ride up on the rails, especially at the switches. You will go from binding to derailing.