daylight 4449 steam loco made of brass

[Anonymous]

hey all, was wondering what would be the best company to buy from when wanting to buy a ho scale model of the daylight 4449, made from brass?? i know ill be expensive but does anyone know how much id roughly cost??thanks.

[GN-Rick]

Check the website for Caboose Hobbies. They have an extensive brass
inventory there and you should be able to find what you're looking for. As to which
is best, it really depends on how much you want to spend. Good luck.

http://caboosehobbies.com/

[CNJ831]

There is a considerable range in quality, depending on production date and maker, for this popular brass locomotive.

Not owning any example myself, I'd rather not comment of whose is probably the best. According to the Brown Book (now 10 years out of date), valuations in 1994 ranged from $400 to $800. Today better examples on eBay seem to be running upwards of $1000.

CNJ831

[cmulligan01]

Gunning's Hobbies looks like it has a decent brass selection.

http://www.gunnings.com/brass-inventory.html

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by sp4449daylight

hey all, was wondering what would be the best company to buy from when wanting to buy a ho scale model of the daylight 4449, made from brass?? i know ill be expensive but does anyone know how much id roughly cost??thanks.

This is my opinion about the Daylights out there for sale.

The old Balboa's and Westside's models made by KTM are identical for the most part and run fairly good, but the detail is not up to todays standards. They were made first in the early seventies and produced last in 1976, so their detail is OK.

The Key GS4 models are really nice and have the correct smokebox nose for the GS4,. The KTM model was not correct, but acceptable. to most modelers.
The Key model was inported in the eighties and had coasting drive and almost all of the hatches were the opening type. This engine is a great model, but will cost you about 1000 Plus, because of its detail and quality.

The Challenger Import Models also is a great model, but is close to 1500 list, if you can find one. They came in about a year or so ago and are nice, but the cab seems to be a little slanted towards the front on all of them. Still, they are a great model and only the high cost is a draw back.

The Overland GS4 also made the model, but I will not comment on this particular model as I have not looked at it closely. It is in the 1200 range if you find one.

United also made one in the sixties that is very poor in quality and is not really a good representation of the GS4.

Hope this helps, and it is my opinion about this.

In my opinion, the Key is the best buy and close to the best detail.

The old KTM engines are a good buy at about 400 or so.

[twhite]

I'd take Bangert1's advice on the Key. The Balboa models aren't bad, either. As he said, the detail isn't up to today's standards, but they're sturdy and good runners. I've got two, a Daylight and a War Baby, and they look good and run well. And it's easy to drop a NWSL flat can in them if you don't like the way the open-frame motor runs or sounds. One nice thing about Balboa's SP prototype models (they tended to specialize in SP) is the fact that they're well-balanced locomotives, and have quite a bit of 'dig' to them. Pricewise, they're probably in the $400--600 range, I picked my two up used about five years ago for around $350.
ANY Key loco, of course, is worth the price!
Tom [:D]

[Doug Goulbourn]

I agree with Tom. I have both a Balboa GS-1(Master Series) and GS-4 that seem practically bullet-proof. They still run well for being 30+ years old and while not up to today's detail standards will still pass muster in photos and pull like crazy.

Doug

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Doug Goulbourn

I agree with Tom. I have both a Balboa GS-1(Master Series) and GS-4 that seem practically bullet-proof. They still run well for being 30+ years old and while not up to today's detail standards will still pass muster in photos and pull like crazy.

Doug

Sorry I did not mention the GS-1 Master series from Balboa, since it is a fine model that was an upgrade from the standard import at that time. They bring a higher price also since the detail is much better and the production runs were smaller than the normal model. They were in the order of the Crown series from PFM and are really nice for that period and hold their own today.

I like the KTM engines and still have one of them in Daylight colors and agree with you they will probably run forever with a little care.

[jimrice4449]

I don't know if you want a 4449 specifically or just a SP Daylight, but eBay currently has a SP mountain for sale in Daylight paint.

[Don Gibson]

SAMHONGSA (Korea) made the Key 'Daylight's unit's with a 'Tangerine' Orange.
KATSUMI (KTM) Japan) made the Balboa's with open frame motor's, and Westside with can motor's, and the correct Orange.
The 'Daylight' color's are truer on the Westside product's and the Japanese product's will pull more car's, being of heavier brass construction. Westside also made an original 'Daylight' GS-2.

PFM imported an unpainted GS-4 with blind drivers; and someone recently ran GS-4's - with skirt's removed in black and silver paint - as the ended up on the SP. Those would be my choice as the best. They sold for $1100.

Since the shrouded 'Daylight' streamlining covnered most of the 'detail', I didn't think this was the most important point.

[Anonymous]

thanks for the help , im just after a brass loco, thats got accurate detail, not really worried about price, just needed to know a company to buy one from as i live in australia.thanks.

[Anonymous]

also, did any company make a brass model of a 482 type SP steam engine??thanks.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by sp4449daylight

also, did any company make a brass model of a 482 type SP steam engine??thanks.

The SP 4 8 2's were made by almost every one at one time. KTM made the version with the skyline for Balboa and Max Gray, Key made excellent models of the mountain, and Sunset imported some. I would check the Sunset models carefullly as they imported some that were aimed at the low end of the market and not all of these run good.
I pasted in a list of mountains on a dealers list to show you some that are out there available. Most of the larger brass dealers have used models ranging from about three hundred up to twelve hundred for the Key models.

4-8-2 #3744 MT-2 C/P re-mtr, well-run ALCO
4-8-2 #4352,class MT-4,ptd SJDL Balboa
4-8-2 #4356, MT-4 ,ptd blk Balboa
4-8-2 #4328 Class MT-3 Max Gray
4-8-2 MT-3 4-8-2 Sunset
4-8-2 #4363 MT-4 2nd Run w/Sound Key
4-8-2 #4369 MT-5 "Shasta" 3rd Run Key
4-8-2 SP MT-5 4-8-2 no paint Westside

[twhite]

On the Mountains--Bangert1's right on the money about the Key models--I have an MT-5 that is an incredible runner and puller, and has detail to salivate over. I also have an earlier KTM Balboa MT-4 that is a very handsome (and heavy) loco. Both are superb machines--I'd almost be willing to bet that on straight and level track, either one of them could match the prototype's pulling power.
One thing nobody's mentioned yet, is minimum radius for these SP locomotives--being brass, they don't have the driver side-play 'give' of current plastic models, so make sure you have at least a 26" minimum radius for them to run on. They're BIG locomotives, and they like BIG curves!
Tom [:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by twhite

On the Mountains--Bangert1's right on the money about the Key models--I have an MT-5 that is an incredible runner and puller, and has detail to salivate over. I also have an earlier KTM Balboa MT-4 that is a very handsome (and heavy) loco. Both are superb machines--I'd almost be willing to bet that on straight and level track, either one of them could match the prototype's pulling power.
One thing nobody's mentioned yet, is minimum radius for these SP locomotives--being brass, they don't have the driver side-play 'give' of current plastic models, so make sure you have at least a 26" minimum radius for them to run on. They're BIG locomotives, and they like BIG curves!
Tom [:D]

Tom
You are correct about the radius for brass, but that is the way brass was made as you are aware. A good rule of thumb is to use at least the 26" you listed, but most brass models run better on 30" to 36". The Westside Models needed a larger radius than the older Balboa's, at least that is what I found. The club where I was operating in the seventies had 30" radius and my Westside Daylights needed more lateral play added to the main drivers to prevent climbing out of the rails.

KTM might have used different specifications, as my Balboa models seemed to take the same curves OK. Who knows why??

[Anonymous]

Here is one:
http://brasstrains.effortlesse.com/ViewProduct.asp?ModelNumber=004146
http://brasstrains.effortlesse.com/ViewProduct.asp?ModelNumber=003192
http://brasstrains.effortlesse.com/ViewProduct.asp?ModelNumber=001025

[twhite]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bangert1

QUOTE: Originally posted by twhite

On the Mountains--Bangert1's right on the money about the Key models--I have an MT-5 that is an incredible runner and puller, and has detail to salivate over. I also have an earlier KTM Balboa MT-4 that is a very handsome (and heavy) loco. Both are superb machines--I'd almost be willing to bet that on straight and level track, either one of them could match the prototype's pulling power.
One thing nobody's mentioned yet, is minimum radius for these SP locomotives--being brass, they don't have the driver side-play 'give' of current plastic models, so make sure you have at least a 26" minimum radius for them to run on. They're BIG locomotives, and they like BIG curves!
Tom [:D]

Tom
You are correct about the radius for brass, but that is the way brass was made as you are aware. A good rule of thumb is to use at least the 26" you listed, but most brass models run better on 30" to 36". The Westside Models needed a larger radius than the older Balboa's, at least that is what I found. The club where I was operating in the seventies had 30" radius and my Westside Daylights needed more lateral play added to the main drivers to prevent climbing out of the rails.

KTM might have used different specifications, as my Balboa models seemed to take the same curves OK. Who knows why??

Totally agree with you on 30 to 36" curves. I've got a minimum 34" on my layout, and all my brass takes the curves smoothly, except for one of my NJ Brass Rio Grande M-78 4-8-2's, that seems to have a problem with the leading truck. Rather than file the inside of the cylinder heads, I'm probably going to have to fabricate a new lead truck frame. Oddly enough, the problem seems to be intermittent. Some days it's happier than a clam, other days it gets really testy. Funny thing, though, I've got an old PFM Santa Fe 2-10-2 (without brake shoe castings) that has such enormous side-play on the drivers that it'll negotiate a 24" with ease. You're right, you can NEVER tell about brass, LOL!
Tom [:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Funny thing, though, I've got an old PFM Santa Fe 2-10-2 (without brake shoe castings) that has such enormous side-play on the drivers that it'll negotiate a 24" with ease. You're right, you can NEVER tell about brass, LOL!
Tom

You are right about that! I've got a PFM C&O 2-8-4 that will do 18" easily, yet I have a Overland C&O 4-8-4 That won't even do 24". As you said its real hard to tell with brass. Everyone is diffrent

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CrazyShay

QUOTE: Funny thing, though, I've got an old PFM Santa Fe 2-10-2 (without brake shoe castings) that has such enormous side-play on the drivers that it'll negotiate a 24" with ease. You're right, you can NEVER tell about brass, LOL!
Tom

You are right about that! I've got a PFM C&O 2-8-4 that will do 18" easily, yet I have a Overland C&O 4-8-4 That won't even do 24". As you said its real hard to tell with brass. Everyone is diffrent

The PFM models built by Atlas Industries seemed to have lateral play in the drivers and usually would go around much tighter curves. Each model has to be tested for its ability to run on a layout. I have added weight to most of my engines and that usually helps with the tight radius curves also, at least up to a point.

[Anonymous]

i got one, rang up a shop here in australia, 650 bucks aussie, so thats $487 americian, its a gs6, with 1 head lamp in the smoke box, painted all black, unsure of the brand, seems pretty good.