I have diesels from all the mentioned manufacturers (including a Genesis F3/7 with MRC sound) and they all have good and bad points. I have had most of the Gensis bulbs burn out and replace them with SMD's glued to a short pc of 1.5 mm fiber optic fiber.
I only have one brass diesel (SD9 by Hallmark) and it is in a display case, but the brass steamers I have, a United 2-8-2 and Tenshodo 4-6-4 have a couple of advantages over their plastic counterparts (imo)and that is weight and the fact that I can pick them up without worrying about breaking some small detail off.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
ATLANTIC CENTRALNone of my Genesis F units have burnt out, and when I installed the lamps in the ones I built from Highliner kits, I did not find it necessary to glue in the lamps.
Sheldon,
I think the complaint about Athearn headlights is more about them gluing them in rather than the bulbs burning out. At some point bulbs are going to burn out. When you make it difficult to remove and replace a headlight without damaging the shell, that's where Athearn needs to change their assembly practices.
I usually replace any incandescent headlight with a 3mm LED and I NEVER glue an LED in. It's either press fit in a #32 (0.116" OD) hole, or the bulb end is secured in place with a short piece of black heat shrink. If and when I should ever need to replace the LED headlight, all I need to do is unsolder the wires and remove the LED.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL None of my Genesis F units have burnt out, and when I installed the lamps in the ones I built from Highliner kits, I did not find it necessary to glue in the lamps.
None of my Genesis F units have burnt out, and when I installed the lamps in the ones I built from Highliner kits, I did not find it necessary to glue in the lamps.
Rich
Alton Junction
Well I have owned a half dozen Athearn Genesis F units. Apparently some folks on here have not run theirs much. The ones I owned had issues running at different speeds and uncoupling due to speed variations in plain DC mode. Also the wheel plating was crap and started coming off within 20 hours or less. The light bulbs dont last in plain dc mode either.
There are good reasons I prefer brass. I always had very good experiences with the running performance of Overland Models tower gear drive diesels. Some brass f units have been gorgeous and some not.
If money is a concern I think p2k F units are the best of the plastic because they have run the best for me.
Intermountain F units tend to sit nose high and that bothers me. I was not able to fix mine to sit level front to rear. They run ok.
Some Challenger Imports f units have coupling issues where things do not fit or mu correctly. My problems were with WP units which I resold and they held their value.
PRR8259 Well I have owned a half dozen Atherarn Genesis F units. Apparently some folks on here have not run theirs much. The ones I owned had issues running at different speeds and uncoupling due to speed variations in plain DC mode. Also the wheel plating was crap and started coming off within 20 hours or less. The light bulbs dont last in plain dc mode either. There are good reasons I prefer brass. I always had very good experiences with the running performance of Overland Models tower gear drive diesels. Some brass f units have been gorgeous and some not. If money is a concern I think p2k F units are the best of the plastic because they have run the best for me. Intermountain F units tend to sit nose high and that bothers me. I was not able to fix mine to sit level front to rear. They run ok. Some Challenger Imports f units have coupling issues where things do not fit or mu correctly. My problems were with WP units which I resold and they held their value.
Well I have owned a half dozen Atherarn Genesis F units. Apparently some folks on here have not run theirs much. The ones I owned had issues running at different speeds and uncoupling due to speed variations in plain DC mode. Also the wheel plating was crap and started coming off within 20 hours or less. The light bulbs dont last in plain dc mode either.
Never had any coupler/uncoupling issues......but the first thing I do with EVERY piece of equipment is replace the plastic semi scale couplers with regular head metal Kadee couplers. All my F units are three and four unit powered sets, they run fine together.
I have one set of Proto F units, and they run fine. But I use some of my ATLANTIC CENTRAL F's for passenger service and the Proto's are slow, I don't like that they changed the gearing.
But again, I don't run my DC engines on the MTH promoted 16 volts, and none of them have sound or decoders, I run them near the "original" NMRA Standard/RP 12 volts........
My Intermountain units look fine, I think I had one that was nose high, but was able to fix it. I have a bunch of their FP7's, another reason I prefer Intermountain - undecorated kits.......which are now hard to find in Genesis........for both F units and FP units. Genesis made FP's, but not undecorated.
And again, the Proto undecorated model comes with a late 60's modernized shell with a snow plow, not suitable for my purposes..........
So Intermountain remains the big winner F unit at my house, with Genesis being second, Proto third........
But my needs are different from those who simply buy everything RTR.....and resale value is not a factor for things you are never going to sell........
Sheldon
PS - who would want my fleet lettered in ATLANTIC CENTRAL anyway.........
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Mike, I'm not disputing the problem, I just have not experienced it. All my Genesis F units are factory DC, many were bare drives for Highliner shells. None of my Genesis F units have burnt out, and when I installed the lamps in the ones I built from Highliner kits, I did not find it necessary to glue in the lamps. And, admittedly, in my world - what is a ditch light? I model an era when they were just thinking about turning headlights on during the day........some of my stuff has Mars lights, but I don't go out of my way to add them to anything. Sheldon
Mike, I'm not disputing the problem, I just have not experienced it. All my Genesis F units are factory DC, many were bare drives for Highliner shells.
And, admittedly, in my world - what is a ditch light? I model an era when they were just thinking about turning headlights on during the day........some of my stuff has Mars lights, but I don't go out of my way to add them to anything.
It sounds like you have been lucky, but the OP is probably interested in trends and issues affecting enough people that he may want to include that in his decision making. An "outlyer" piece of data is just that, an outlyer. In other words, if one or two people didn't have bulbs burn out on any of their Genesis loco's but 50 people did, who are you going to believe? I'd think the large numbers speak the loudest.
I have read reports from many many people complaining about Athearns light issues for the past 10+ years so I'd say thats "significant" enough to factor in. To me, it's not a deal breaker and I'm not going to avoid buying types of diesels that are important to me over a light bulb, but I understand there are a few that do.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Mike, I'm not disputing the problem, I just have not experienced it. All my Genesis F units are factory DC, many were bare drives for Highliner shells. None of my Genesis F units have burnt out, and when I installed the lamps in the ones I built from Highliner kits, I did not find it necessary to glue in the lamps. And, admittedly, in my world - what is a ditch light? I model an era when they were just thinking about turning headlights on during the day........some of my stuff has Mars lights, but I don't go out of my way to add them to anything. Sheldon It sounds like you have been lucky, but the OP is probably interested in trends and issues affecting enough people that he may want to include that in his decision making. An "outlyer" piece of data is just that, an outlyer. In other words, if one or two people didn't have bulbs burn out on any of their Genesis loco's but 50 people did, who are you going to believe? I'd think the large numbers speak the loudest. I have read reports from many many people complaining about Athearns light issues for the past 10+ years so I'd say thats "significant" enough to factor in. To me, it's not a deal breaker and I'm not going to avoid buying types of diesels that are important to me over a light bulb, but I understand there are a few that do.
I understand and agree, I full well admit that my experiance may well be a direct result of my unconventional control system, that actually conforms with original NMRA standards.....silly me.
riogrande5761To me, it's not a deal breaker and I'm not going to avoid buying types of diesels that are important to me over a light bulb, but I understand there are a few that do.
I recently forked over $25.00 to have LEDs installed in my Genesis GP9.To my mind that's fixing a problem Athearn should have fixed by now. The other manufacturers uses LEDs in their DCC ready or DCC/Sound equipped locomotives and that includes Bachmann.
But,like I mention I'm thinking about getting a Topeka Cab GP7.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Sheldon--
For the record, I abandoned and sold the MTH DCS system (that I once was a fan of) after my sons got kinda bored with steam, some years ago. The MRC Tech 6 Sound Controller 2.0 actually runs some engines slightly faster in DCC Mode than they run in plain DC mode. I don't know why that is true, but with some of my engines it seems to be, I guess depending upon the decoder in them.
I'm pretty sure the MRC Tech 6 is closer to 12-13 volts, max, in plain DC and not the 16 volts of MTH.
So my Athearn Santa Fe F's which were supposed to run together would not. They ran at speeds so different from one another that they would uncouple (and yes, I had Kadee couplers on them, if I recall). The A and B of an AB set would literally not run together in plain DC. Nor would the A run with other A's, but at different speeds.
These were prior to 2011 Genesis units, if I recall. I have only attempted some Genesis GP7's, 15-1's, and rtr SD45T-2's since 2011.
The SD45T-2's were the nicest models of all Athearn diesels I owned in the last 15 years. Best QA/QC and they ran well. Oh, I had one Reading Genesis GP-7 that was awesome. Just opted to do something other than Reading and had trouble finding a decent RS-3 in green and yellow...never found one and gave up.
Others may see it differently.
John
BRAKIE I recently forked over $25.00 to have LEDs installed in my Genesis GP9.To my mind that's fixing a problem Athearn should have fixed by now. The other manufacturers uses LEDs in their DCC ready or DCC/Sound equipped locomotives and that includes Bachmann. But,like I mention I'm thinking about getting a Topeka Cab GP7.
I recently forked over $25.00 to have LEDs installed in my Genesis GP9.To my mind that's fixing a problem Athearn should have fixed by now. The other manufacturers uses LEDs in their DCC ready or DCC/Sound equipped locomotives and that includes Bachmann. But,like I mention I'm thinking about getting a Topeka Cab GP7.
Life has been good ever since.
Because I have a few minutes to kill, I'll offer a few more thoughts.
First, if you read my earlier responses, Intermountain is my first choice in F units, Genesis is a close second, for the reasons I have already explained.
Proto units are nice, but I'm not crazy about the slower gearing, or the limited availablity of undecorated options.
Unlike those of you willing to preorder, or who may prefer the limited "exclusive" nature of brass, I actually dislike, even resent, the lack of "off the shelf" availablity of these products.
This is another factor that drives me away from more recent Proto offerings, and toward Intermountain, with Genesis floating in the middle.
Intermountain, and Athearn, in that order, regarding F units, still seem to be providing more "on the shelf" inventory than Walthers.
Every time I have wanted another set, my local dealer has been able to just pick up the phone and get them from Intermountain.........and they still have drives without those pesky decoders last I checked.
Power packs......45 years ago, when I first saw the control system at the Severna Park club, I knew I would never be happy with just a power pack.
When Command Control first showed up, I was interested. But I quickly figured out it would not meet all my needs. For me, wireless throttles are more important than individual control. And fully intergrated control with CTC and signals was necessary.
Just like some of you cannot imagine trains without DCC, I can't imagine trains without wireless throttles and signals. DCC did not offer wireless throttles in the very beginning.......
So my throttles are Aristo radio throttles, and simply do not work with dual mode decoders.
Cab assignments, turnout controls, CTC, and signaling, is all intergrated in one system, with a working no load track voltage of 13.8, 10 cabs, each with its own 4 amp regulated power supply.
Because the DC motor cintrol track power is pulse width modulated, all the pulses are full voltage. Typical model locomotive headlight wiring schemes all see this as 12 volts all the time, so headlights come on full brightness even before the loco moves, and I have little or no headlight troubles, lamps, Leds, 12v or 1.5v, they all work well.
So I will now just go play with my cheap little mass produced plastic trains with no brains........
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Intermountain is my first choice in F units, Genesis is a close second, for the reasons I have already explained. Proto units are nice, but I'm not crazy about the slower gearing, or the limited availablity of undecorated options.
Intermountain is my first choice in F units, Genesis is a close second, for the reasons I have already explained. Proto units are nice, but I'm not crazy about the slower gearing, or the limited availablity of undecorated options.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL Intermountain is my first choice in F units, Genesis is a close second, for the reasons I have already explained. Proto units are nice, but I'm not crazy about the slower gearing, or the limited availablity of undecorated options. Your experience with these three brands interest me, Sheldon, especially because my experience differs from yours. I have no problem with the gearing on Proto locos, but I find the Intermountain locos to run too slow due to their gearing. I have previously written a thread on this gearing issue and talked to Intermountain about it. They acknowledge the slower gearing but offer no good explanation. In my experience, the Intermountain locos run slower than the prototype. Rich
Your experience with these three brands interest me, Sheldon, especially because my experience differs from yours. I have no problem with the gearing on Proto locos, but I find the Intermountain locos to run too slow due to their gearing. I have previously written a thread on this gearing issue and talked to Intermountain about it. They acknowledge the slower gearing but offer no good explanation. In my experience, the Intermountain locos run slower than the prototype.
The difference is simple, DCC decoders vs no decoders. I clocked a three unit Intermountain F unit set just last night at 77 SMPH at 13.5 volts. Prototype top speeds ranged from 55 to 102 depending on gearing, with 65 being "standard".
ATLANTIC CENTRAL The difference is simple, DCC decoders vs no decoders. I clocked a three unit Intermountain F unit set just last night at 77 SMPH at 13.5 volts. Prototype top speeds ranged from 55 to 102 depending on gearing, with 65 being "standard".
My NCE PH-Pro puts out 13.5 volts as well.
Rich, and again, my Proto C&O freight F units are fine speed wise, but the combination of no "as built" undecodated units and the gearing is a non starter for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL which pulls passenger trains with F units.
Sheldon, my question is this.
You run the Intermountain locos in DC at 13.5 volts.
I run my Intermountain locos in DCC at 13.5 volts.
Why do your Intermountain locos run fine while mine run slow?
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL The difference is simple, DCC decoders vs no decoders. I clocked a three unit Intermountain F unit set just last night at 77 SMPH at 13.5 volts. Prototype top speeds ranged from 55 to 102 depending on gearing, with 65 being "standard". I'll accept that because I have heard that before. Why is that though? My NCE PH-Pro puts out 13.5 volts as well. Rich
I'll accept that because I have heard that before. Why is that though?
Just a guess, but likely something to do with the pulse width frequency of the decoder and the particular motor they use.
richhotrain BRAKIE I recently forked over $25.00 to have LEDs installed in my Genesis GP9.To my mind that's fixing a problem Athearn should have fixed by now. The other manufacturers uses LEDs in their DCC ready or DCC/Sound equipped locomotives and that includes Bachmann. But,like I mention I'm thinking about getting a Topeka Cab GP7. After years of replacing and hating the burned out Genesis incandescent bulbs, I took the advice of some smart people on this forum and installed SMD (surface mount device) LEDs in my Athearn Genesis F7A locos. Life has been good ever since. Rich
After years of replacing and hating the burned out Genesis incandescent bulbs, I took the advice of some smart people on this forum and installed SMD (surface mount device) LEDs in my Athearn Genesis F7A locos.
Sounds good but,still just another cost in fixing what Athearn should have.
If and when I buy that Topeka cab Geep 7 I will try lowering the voltage in the start and mid volt with CVs settings.
I will grant the Protos tend to run slower, and for me, the few Intermountain F's I've had certainly ran fast enough.
As far as availability of the particular version(s) of diesels I wanted, I have noticed where it makes sense for Walthers to do so, they do offer road specific detailing--typically on the lower end of the amount of separate road specific detailing--but nevertheless they have offered it very correctly for some units (like early 1980's Santa Fe GP30U's, Santa Fe "rebuilds-in-kind" with the addition of rooftop beacons). So I can say the particular versions of models they have opted to offer as "road specific" versions were on the lower end of the amount of separate, non-standard details versus Genesis--but one can actually say Walthers has offered engines that were correct for individual units that can be photo-verified as existing that way for at least a few years.
When Walthers has chosen to offer "road specific" Santa Fe F Units, they deliberately chose "earlier" versions of them, prior to the later period when Santa Fe really started making a lot of changes and just about every F unit was slightly different from every other F unit. So as such, Walthers can factually say they are offering such and such an A-B set from such and such a year, just without too many changes yet as of that date.
In contrast, Athearn Genesis has offered numerous very highly detailed, very late F units that are highly accurate for the given road numbers they represent, for example: something like 3 different versions of the Santa Fe Yellow Warbonnet F unit, of which only 15 prototype A units ever existed. Athearn did a super job on the models; unfortunately some of the QA/QC was lacking and the thin clearcoat over the plating easily rubs or scratches off allowing the plated finish to be easily marred...The Genesis blue warbonnet F's were also great, as were many of the Rio Grande units and the Penn Central ex-DRGW versions.
It appears to me that Walthers is trying to offer "road specific" models ala Athearn Genesis, but for whatever reason (maybe economic) they are avoiding the all out full blown "accurate to a single road number" level of late F unit detailing.
BRAKIE Sounds good but,still just another cost in fixing what Athearn should have.
It is the same thing with other manufacturers not using Kadee couplers, for example. You have to be prepared to buy their locos and then change out the couplers.
PRR8259 I will grant the Protos tend to run slower, and for me, the few Intermountain F's I've had certainly ran fast enough. As far as availability of the particular version(s) of diesels I wanted, I have noticed where it makes sense for Walthers to do so, they do offer road specific detailing--typically on the lower end of the amount of separate road specific detailing--but nevertheless they have offered it very correctly for some units (like early 1980's Santa Fe GP30U's, Santa Fe "rebuilds-in-kind" with the addition of rooftop beacons). So I can say the particular versions of models they have opted to offer as "road specific" versions were on the lower end of the amount of separate, non-standard details versus Genesis--but one can actually say Walthers has offered engines that were correct for individual units that can be photo-verified as existing that way for at least a few years. When Walthers has chosen to offer "road specific" Santa Fe F Units, they deliberately chose "earlier" versions of them, prior to the later period when Santa Fe really started making a lot of changes and just about every F unit was slightly different from every other F unit. So as such, Walthers can factually say they are offering such and such an A-B set from such and such a year, just without too many changes yet as of that date. In contrast, Athearn Genesis has offered numerous very highly detailed, very late F units that are highly accurate for the given road numbers they represent, for example: something like 3 different versions of the Santa Fe Yellow Warbonnet F unit, of which only 15 prototype A units ever existed. Athearn did a super job on the models; unfortunately some of the QA/QC was lacking and the thin clearcoat over the plating easily rubs or scratches off allowing the plated finish to be easily marred...The Genesis blue warbonnet F's were also great, as were many of the Rio Grande units and the Penn Central ex-DRGW versions. It appears to me that Walthers is trying to offer "road specific" models ala Athearn Genesis, but for whatever reason (maybe economic) they are avoiding the all out full blown "accurate to a single road number" level of late F unit detailing. John
John, I would agree with all of that, but none of that effects me much in my modeling.
As for plating/finishes, I'm a big believer in the idea that they are supposed to be on the layout running, not being handled, so I don't buy into any of the "too fragile" arguments, in fact I really dislike how MTH and BLI to some extent will simplify or or over size details for durablity - like the running boards on the MTH Berkshire.....
I've been doing this for 49 years, they are delicate 1/87 scale models. not childrens toys.
I don't collect a bunch of different roadnames from all over the country - every loco I own says ATLANTIC CENTRAL, B&O, C&O or Western Maryland.
But overall, right now, if you go looking for F units, you will find a bigger selection in stock at Intermountain than at Walthers or Athearn. AND, my desired undecorated "as built" kits are always in stock at Intermountain.
I hate the hunt, I hate the preorder, I hate the limited production "game", I accept that I cannot change the way the industry is going, but I give my business as much as I can to companies who make the trains first, then ask for my money.
With only one exception - the nice guys at Spring Mills Depot.........
The Walthers Proto clearcoat over plating is ahem much more durable for normal real world use. If one runs steam, as I do now, well then any concerns about pristine plated finishes just vanish...that's partly why I went back to steam.
So far as the "exclusivity" comment above, I don't necessarily buy brass because it's exclusive but because it is something I want to have. If one wants a plated E-5A, ones' only option is brass. Certain F units have been offered in brass with the large side numberboards, and some late brass F's are actually beautifully done. Likewise, a lot of correct steam models can and will ever only be available in brass. To be honest, other than the Texas & Pacific 2-10-4, which has mass appeal as a Freedom Train engine, as a Southern steam program engine, etc. I very much doubt that any other T&P steamer will ever be offered as a hybrid or in plastic. I like the appearance of certain other engines that will never be offered in plastic.
Also, I like the brass handrails of Overland, Challenger, and Oriental Limited diesels. Properly handled they hold up...better than a lot of plastic ones for me.
All those are partly reasons why I chose to revert to almost all steam (I have one diesel). Also, as you have noted, I have in the past been guilty as charged of buying anything and everything from every railroad, but since purged and now have only T&P motive power, one Santa Fe blue and yellow warbonnet GP7 for old times sake, and the GN green 4-8-4 that my son wants to keep for himself and won't let me trade or sell. The T&P books are hard to find and I haven't ponied up the cash yet for the best ones.
So my focus has narrowed quite a bit.
PRR8259 The Walthers Proto clearcoat over plating is ahem much more durable for normal real world use. If one runs steam, as I do now, well then any concerns about pristine plated finishes just vanish...that's partly why I went back to steam. So far as the "exclusivity" comment above, I don't necessarily buy brass because it's exclusive but because it is something I want to have. If one wants a plated E-5A, ones' only option is brass. Certain F units have been offered in brass with the large side numberboards, and some late brass F's are actually beautifully done. Likewise, a lot of correct steam models can and will ever only be available in brass. To be honest, other than the Texas & Pacific 2-10-4, which has mass appeal as a Freedom Train engine, as a Southern steam program engine, etc. I very much doubt that any other T&P steamer will ever be offered as a hybrid or in plastic. I like the appearance of certain other engines that will never be offered in plastic. Also, I like the brass handrails of Overland, Challenger, and Oriental Limited diesels. Properly handled they hold up...better than a lot of plastic ones for me. All those are partly reasons why I chose to revert to almost all steam (I have one diesel). Also, as you have noted, I have in the past been guilty as charged of buying anything and everything from every railroad, but since purged and now have only T&P motive power, one Santa Fe blue and yellow warbonnet GP7 for old times sake, and the GN green 4-8-4 that my son wants to keep for himself and won't let me trade or sell. The T&P books are hard to find and I haven't ponied up the cash yet for the best ones. So my focus has narrowed quite a bit. John
John, I get it, I know that if I really want a correct WESTERN MARYLAND Pacific I'm going to have to get up off of $400 for that one loco, I'm fine with that, and that will easily be the most expensive locomotive I own when I do it, unless you count a four unit string of F units as one loco........
But every item on my roster does not have to be that proto specific correct, for reasons I have explained before.
And I like the creative process of "protolancing", it is fun.
On my Athearn Genesis F3's and F7's or any of my trains for that matter, the lights have yet to burn out, I bought them last year and they're still new (all bulbs work). Since many of you are so concerned about the lights going out, I thought it takes a good 5-10 years before that happens. I guess since my trains are only used once in a while ( I'm in a Module Club by the way) this is not much of a problem (at least for me). For those who have permanent layouts and run trains on a daily basis, (Ruby's Diner comes to mind) it will happen much faster depending on how much you use the lights.
I often run trains an hour a day...
Ordinarily I would not care about stupid lightbulbs, but when they fail in a high priced Genesis plated finish F unit, as Sheldon has stated above--that we don't want to be handling very much at all, but desire to leave on the layout--it is a royal pain where a pill won't reach to deal with. I've found the lightbulb to be glued in with some kind of hard, shiny, non-water soluble glue (they use a water soluble glue to attach the grills, so normally any excess glue can be removed with warm water). So--in my case, on my Genesis F units--the lights were glued in place and wouldn't come out. The only way to get them out was to drill them out, period. Also on my Genesis F units, they smeared the same hard shiny glue on the side of a B unit, thus ruining it (they were allegedly brand new in box from MBK and not somebody's sloppy repair). There was no way to remove said glue without damaging the B unit--I tried. That combined with units fighting each other, running at different enough speeds to uncouple easily, was just unacceptable for me. My numerous issues with Genesis diesels in particular (ok, I did have one gorgeous GP7) are partly what drove me back to steam era.
John, it has not been a problem for me with Genesis units, but the solution to the inconsistant slow speed surging operation of the mu sets is to install light bulbs on all the light bulb connections on the circuit board in all units, even the B's.
This gives every unit identical voltage charactoristics in both directions.
Never had to do this with a Genesis, but had to do it years ago with can motor remotoring of blue box units.
PRR8259Also on my Genesis F units, they smeared the same hard shiny glue on the side of a B unit, thus ruining it (they were allegedly brand new in box from MBK and not somebody's sloppy repair). There was no way to remove said glue without damaging the B unit--I tried.
What you describe above is grounds to return for a replacement or refund, period. It sounds like good ol Athearn QAQC failed there.
Agreed, I would have taken them right back.
I stupidly tried to fix the b unit rather than return it and ended up making it worse...sold a without b. So much for attempting to be a real modeler by fixing stuff.
Never heard about light bulb thing. However had 3 different a units that themselves would not mu either. Resold 2 promptly and third had early onset wheel plating wear and ran horribly as soon as the plating wore. My solution was to gut it and make it a dummy unit.
PRR8259 I stupidly tried to fix the b unit rather than return it and ended up making it worse...sold a without b. So much for attempting to be a real modeler by fixing stuff. Never heard about light bulb thing. However had 3 different a units that themselves would not mu either. Resold 2 promptly and third had early onset wheel plating wear and ran horribly as soon as the plating wore. My solution was to gut it and make it a dummy unit.
The light bulb thing will fix it, I'm pretty sure. Even two A units, when they are back to back, one has a headlight on, one does not, it changes the starting voltage slightly, and can make them surge at slow speeds.
It was the only way I could get my remotored superdetailed blue box F units to run the same speed, same lighting circuit in all three with lamps for both directions.
Also, the design of the a particular motor, combined with the waveform of a particular throttle, can eliminate or exaggerate such problems.
No amount of "standards" can forsee all these conditions, so it will always be a "modelers" hobby for all these little details - in my view.....Stuff will need "tweeking".