Welcome back! Stick with it!
I got replacement gears for the H20-44 from Northwest Short Line several years ago and had no trouble installing the replacements. Sorry, I don't remember the part number, but an inquiry to NWSL can probably direct you. I understand this was a very common problem with these models, so you shouldn't feel like you're being picked on! The engine runs fine now, but it's always been a bit noisier than many other diesel models. A better motor might help, but wouldn't be absolutely necessary.
Tom
Thanks Tom, you too John, for the timely suggestions. I will contact NWSL for replacement gears for the FM's. I'm looking forward to more time with the hobby. I'm sticking with DC and am reworking some of those old unfriendly Shinohara code 83 & code 70 turnouts based on a couple MR mag articles.
Ed
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain I have forgotten what this thread was initially all about. Rich Choosing a set of F units for a Northern Pacific passenger train....... Which then some how had to cover every defective loco Athearn has ever made, why brass is better, the pro and cons of LED's vs incandecent lamps, DCC vs DC, and how I'm not qualified to say anything about DCC because I don't own DCC, despite dozens and dozens of hours with a Digitrax throttle in my hand...... And it still remains that the only readily available NP F units likely come in boxes that say "Intermountain" - like I suggested on page one........ Sheldon
richhotrain I have forgotten what this thread was initially all about. Rich
I have forgotten what this thread was initially all about.
Rich
Choosing a set of F units for a Northern Pacific passenger train.......
Which then some how had to cover every defective loco Athearn has ever made, why brass is better, the pro and cons of LED's vs incandecent lamps, DCC vs DC, and how I'm not qualified to say anything about DCC because I don't own DCC, despite dozens and dozens of hours with a Digitrax throttle in my hand......
And it still remains that the only readily available NP F units likely come in boxes that say "Intermountain" - like I suggested on page one........
Sheldon
Alton Junction
But I only run my trains once in a while, how can the lightbulbs only last such a short period of time? I don't get it.
PRR8259 One of the reasons I despise DCC is when I take my trains to somebody's layout that has DCC they seem to spend an inordinate amount of time just figuring out how to run the trains. I've stood there for more than a half hour while a friend tried to get a DCC equipped engine to move--at all--phoned a friend--and was still unsuccessful.
It's a shame you've had some bad experiences and feel like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Just like anything else, consider the factors, like the user and the system and are the two compatible with each other. Sounds like your friend has a system which is too complex for him.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Sheldon--
First, I didn't say anything about not being qualified, so please do not put words into my post that I did not say.
All I asked was how would you know? It's a simple question, really.
Also, given that Athearn light bulbs fail after only a few hours of operation in plain DC (sometimes, but not all the time) I was seriously questioning how they could possibly fail faster in DCC.
I don't read every individual post, so somehow I must have missed a previous statement of yours regarding the round Robin group and your DCC experience. If you feel that I have slighted you, well I'm sorry, and that was not my intent.
John
P.S. One of the reasons I despise DCC is when I take my trains to somebody's layout that has DCC they seem to spend an inordinate amount of time just figuring out how to run the trains. I've stood there for more than a half hour while a friend tried to get a DCC equipped engine to move--at all--phoned a friend--and was still unsuccessful.
Put the proverbial fork in it.
PRR8259 If you don't operate DCC, as you have said you do not, then how can you really know for sure? I had Athearn lightbulbs in plain DC, on a nominal 12 volt maximum system, that were definitely not being operated at full power (ie full voltage) that still only lasted a few days. It is hard to fathom (though it is possible) lightbulbs failing faster than after a few uses (few uses in dc) in dcc mode. John
If you don't operate DCC, as you have said you do not, then how can you really know for sure?
I had Athearn lightbulbs in plain DC, on a nominal 12 volt maximum system, that were definitely not being operated at full power (ie full voltage) that still only lasted a few days.
It is hard to fathom (though it is possible) lightbulbs failing faster than after a few uses (few uses in dc) in dcc mode.
John, I don't operate DCC on my home layout, but for 15 years I have been a very active member of a local round robin group, operating, as well designing and helping to build, more than a half dozen basement filling DCC layouts.
I know my way around a Digitrax throttle, experience that I feel qualifies my opinion of not liking them........
Recently have I removed myself from the group do to family obligations, but once a week for years I was running trains with DCC.......
ATSFGuy One more question about lightbulbs: do they burn out quicker in DCC than DC.
One more question about lightbulbs: do they burn out quicker in DCC than DC.
Based on my experience, yes.
One more question about lightbulbs: do they burn out quicker in DCC than DC?
DoughlessAny manufacturer is going to be challenged to have a loco that small run as good as the larger wheelbase stuff, especially if they don't use some type of keep alive technology.
And, unfortunately, there isn't much room under the hood for anything beyond the motor and drive train. A smallish decoder could fit in the cab but adding a keep-alive wouid be near-impossible.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
riogrande5761 Doughless I only follow switchers and 4 axle stuff. As far as the DD40, and all potential DD40 models for that matter: Wouldn't the shear length of the model require an excessive swing in the trucks just in order for it to travel on something less than a 36 inch radius curve. I don't know if I would blame Bachmann for not being able to defy the laws of physics. The Athearn Genesis DD40AX has a minimum radius of 28" FYI. The Bachman looks the way it does because they are making it so it can run on a minimum radius of 18", which is comical for an engine that long. The big gap in the pilot ruins the appearance of that otherwise handsome looking diesel. If I were in the market for a Centenial, I would some how find a way to get the Genesis model and squeeze in the 28" curves. For me, trains are for looking at so things like that are important. Yes, beautiy is in the eye of the beholder. I had once considered the Bachman GE before I started limiting my purchases to a particular time frame, and the earlier version wasn't the best runner. They revised it later and it was apparently much improved.
Doughless I only follow switchers and 4 axle stuff. As far as the DD40, and all potential DD40 models for that matter: Wouldn't the shear length of the model require an excessive swing in the trucks just in order for it to travel on something less than a 36 inch radius curve. I don't know if I would blame Bachmann for not being able to defy the laws of physics.
I only follow switchers and 4 axle stuff.
As far as the DD40, and all potential DD40 models for that matter: Wouldn't the shear length of the model require an excessive swing in the trucks just in order for it to travel on something less than a 36 inch radius curve. I don't know if I would blame Bachmann for not being able to defy the laws of physics.
The Athearn Genesis DD40AX has a minimum radius of 28" FYI. The Bachman looks the way it does because they are making it so it can run on a minimum radius of 18", which is comical for an engine that long. The big gap in the pilot ruins the appearance of that otherwise handsome looking diesel. If I were in the market for a Centenial, I would some how find a way to get the Genesis model and squeeze in the 28" curves. For me, trains are for looking at so things like that are important. Yes, beautiy is in the eye of the beholder.
I had once considered the Bachman GE before I started limiting my purchases to a particular time frame, and the earlier version wasn't the best runner. They revised it later and it was apparently much improved.
Our model railroad curves is one reason why I stick to shorter engines like switchers and 4 axle diesels.
Even though I commend Bachmann for the models of the 44, 45, and 70, tonners, I don't like their running qualities and therefore don't own any.
Any manufacturer is going to be challenged to have a loco that small run as good as the larger wheelbase stuff, especially if they don't use some type of keep alive technology.
- Douglas
riogrande5761 All comments are probably true of their older diesel products, such as the GP30, GP35, and GP50, possibly the GP38/40. And the F units, the DD40A with it's gaping pilot hole, the GE's, SD45's etc. etc.
I suppose they could at least fill in the nose pilot and use a dummy coupler like some steam engines.
Once a manufacturer decides that its models are going to run on a typical layout, those longer locos have to be compromised in some way (as would passenger cars and 72 foot centerbeam flat cars too). But again, I don't follow the long locomotives that much to know if its possible to really make the pilots any other way.
The only Bachmann diesels I have are the GE switchers, 44 and 70 tonners, and they are more than accurate enough for my purposes.
But I know others who are very happy with the newer offerings.
DoughlessAnd Bachmann is really the only game in town for 44, 45, and 70 Ton switchers.
The GE 44-tonner is one of my favorite early diesel switchers. Sure wish the NYC would have had some in their roster to justify getting one. They did have a 70-tonner (DES-1/1a) but the Bachmann offering isn't even close - not even to kitbash.
Doughless riogrande5761 I don't own any Bachman engines but have avidly read reviews and modeler coments. Basically most of the complaints have been in regard to poor fidelity to prototype in body and trucks etc as well as dimensional issues. Based on the reviews being pretty consistently critcal I've always steered clear. But they've always been at the low end of the HO diesel market so that is to be expected. I have noted improvements to the chassis and paint in recent years but from what I understand, the shell/bodys are basically the same and fidelity has not improved. So disciminating modelers, as a rule, still find Bachman falling well short. If fidelity is of lower importance, then Bachman may fit the bill. All comments are probably true of their older diesel products, such as the GP30, GP35, and GP50, possibly the GP38/40. But the RS-3, S2/4, and GP7 are all new models from the ground up. Handrails and cut levers are thin and the paint and printing is on par with more expensive models. The mechanics of the drivetrain is decent. What they lack is grab irons, and the typical array of hand applied details, which of course, costs labor. The new offerings are priced as you would expect a model with little detail to be priced, but what details they have are as good as the other guys' more expensive models. Of course, their dual mode decoder is very basic too. I think the newer Bachmann diesels are a nice starting point for a modeler to add the details and decoder of their choice. And Bachmann is really the only game in town for 44, 45, and 70 Ton switchers.
riogrande5761 I don't own any Bachman engines but have avidly read reviews and modeler coments. Basically most of the complaints have been in regard to poor fidelity to prototype in body and trucks etc as well as dimensional issues. Based on the reviews being pretty consistently critcal I've always steered clear. But they've always been at the low end of the HO diesel market so that is to be expected. I have noted improvements to the chassis and paint in recent years but from what I understand, the shell/bodys are basically the same and fidelity has not improved. So disciminating modelers, as a rule, still find Bachman falling well short. If fidelity is of lower importance, then Bachman may fit the bill.
I don't own any Bachman engines but have avidly read reviews and modeler coments. Basically most of the complaints have been in regard to poor fidelity to prototype in body and trucks etc as well as dimensional issues. Based on the reviews being pretty consistently critcal I've always steered clear. But they've always been at the low end of the HO diesel market so that is to be expected.
I have noted improvements to the chassis and paint in recent years but from what I understand, the shell/bodys are basically the same and fidelity has not improved. So disciminating modelers, as a rule, still find Bachman falling well short. If fidelity is of lower importance, then Bachman may fit the bill.
If we are talking about quality diesel locomotives, I have owned a lot of Atlas units that were fantastic, very nearly as good as Kato engines.
It obviously depends upon one's prototype of choice, but Atlas engines generally have QA/QC that rivals Kato, and they run very well, excepting a few engines a couple years back that had cheaper motors in them. Motors have since been replaced with an upgraded version on all new Atlas production.
riogrande5761 ATLANTIC CENTRAL People still knock Bachmann, but most of my Spectrum steamers only need the most minor fixes to make them superb running locos. $100 and a few simple mods, I'm all in, give me 10 more. Sheldon My impression is the Bachmann being knocked are the diesels almost exclusively and never the Spectum steam. Never. It would be good to put that to bed permanently.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL People still knock Bachmann, but most of my Spectrum steamers only need the most minor fixes to make them superb running locos. $100 and a few simple mods, I'm all in, give me 10 more. Sheldon
People still knock Bachmann, but most of my Spectrum steamers only need the most minor fixes to make them superb running locos. $100 and a few simple mods, I'm all in, give me 10 more.
My impression is the Bachmann being knocked are the diesels almost exclusively and never the Spectum steam. Never. It would be good to put that to bed permanently.
True enough, the steam does get more respect, but there are still a few who had an issue and will not let it go.
As for Bachmann diesels, they have come a long way. And, it is not an all or nothing issue. Some are very nice and very accurate, others run nice with the newer drives, but are weak in the detail/accuracy department - BUT, they are going after a different price point/market than Proto, Intermountain, Genesis, BLI, etc.
Detail wise, think of most current Bachmann diesels as better or equal to Athearn RTR, or Roundhouse, but not as detailed as the brands listed above.......
And I have to say once again, when someone uses the word "quality" to me, I think of how good is the drive, how well/correctly assembled is it, is the paint job sharp and clean.
I do not think of "does it have every proto correct detail spot on", that is matter of "features", not "quality". A Ford Focus and a Lincoln can both be built with high quality, the Lincoln has more "featrures" - and a price to go with.
MGHR59 Tom; I purchased two FM H20-44's (Alco/Samhongsa) back in the early '80's...had them painted P&WV and they both developed split gears (delrin plastic?) after little running. That was years ago. I've been out of the hobby for decades but crawling back now. Have you any info to share on source/type of replacement gears? My only other brass diesel is a Hallmark EMD E-3/6 which I planned to paint as SAL citrus scheme...never got around to it. I appreciate the many informative comments on this site. Ed
Tom;
I purchased two FM H20-44's (Alco/Samhongsa) back in the early '80's...had them painted P&WV and they both developed split gears (delrin plastic?) after little running. That was years ago. I've been out of the hobby for decades but crawling back now. Have you any info to share on source/type of replacement gears? My only other brass diesel is a Hallmark EMD E-3/6 which I planned to paint as SAL citrus scheme...never got around to it.
I appreciate the many informative comments on this site.
I'm glad your Athearn RS-3s are running well, Sheldon. I wish I could say the same for mine. One of these days I'll have to tinker with them...
tstage ATLANTIC CENTRAL I don't have any Atlas locos, so few of their locos are in my era, and I stayed with older Proto for GP7's, ALCO S switchers, FM is not really of interest to me..... IIRC, Sheldon, you model 1953-54? So, no Alco RS-1/RS-3s? Atlas has a nice selection of both, although probably heavier towards RS-3s. Atlas was one of the first to get real serious with the preorder thing, and I am mostly interested in undecorated, which seem hard to find from Atlas. Yea, undecorated Atlas are a little difficult to find but not impossible. I picked up a new, undecorated DC Atlas S2 and HH660 switcher off eBay and both were <$100 each. My hope is to eventually paint and detail them pre-'48 NYC. Tom
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I don't have any Atlas locos, so few of their locos are in my era, and I stayed with older Proto for GP7's, ALCO S switchers, FM is not really of interest to me.....
IIRC, Sheldon, you model 1953-54? So, no Alco RS-1/RS-3s? Atlas has a nice selection of both, although probably heavier towards RS-3s.
Atlas was one of the first to get real serious with the preorder thing, and I am mostly interested in undecorated, which seem hard to find from Atlas.
Yea, undecorated Atlas are a little difficult to find but not impossible. I picked up a new, undecorated DC Atlas S2 and HH660 switcher off eBay and both were <$100 each. My hope is to eventually paint and detail them pre-'48 NYC.
The RS-1/RS-3 is the one group from them that does interest me, but I already have the Western Maryland versions in Proto1000 and two from Athearn for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL, and despite their bad reputation, my two Athearns are fine - I know, its only two and I must have been lucky.....
Early Proto did cover the first generation thing pretty well, so I have largely stayed with them, GP7, SD7/9, FA, PA, BL2, SW, ALCO S class - lots of each in all the roads I model, B&O, C&O, WM and ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
And then my Intermountain and Genesis EMD F units.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI don't have any Atlas locos, so few of their locos are in my era, and I stayed with older Proto for GP7's, ALCO S switchers, FM is not really of interest to me.....
DoughlessTry the running qualities of various runs of LL/Walthers GP20s.
Think I'll past..My older LL P2K GP38-2 will not mu together thanks to LL gear of the month choice.Oddly my P2K SCL GP7,both SCL GP9s and the SCL GP18 will mu quite nicely but,not my Ohio Central GP7 and my SCR P2K SW8 since they're to slow to mu with anything other then each other.
What I do love about those engines they make beautiful switch engines.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"