Why does Proto 2000 use such cheap breakable gears in the models to begin with?
So far none of my Athearn Genesis Models have had gear problems.
That's not thinking smart, It seems Proto is trying to "cut costs".
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
riogrande5761 And then there are those like me who bought a bunch (11 GP30's and 4 SD7/'9s) and they were in storage during the time I could have gotten free replacements (and they should be free since I bought my LLP2K engines new and they had defective cracked gears). But snooze and loose. Walthers owns P2K and probably would tell me sorry, you waited too long.
And then there are those like me who bought a bunch (11 GP30's and 4 SD7/'9s) and they were in storage during the time I could have gotten free replacements (and they should be free since I bought my LLP2K engines new and they had defective cracked gears). But snooze and loose. Walthers owns P2K and probably would tell me sorry, you waited too long.
Yes, Walthers has finally cut off the warranty service on all that 15-20 year old LifeLike produced stuff.
I got a nice stock of free axle sets from LifeLike back in the day, and have bought more since.
I have seldom messed with buying the Athearn gears and repairing the axle sets.
None of the Proto replacement axle sets I have installed have ever failed - I have a total of about 60 GP7's, FA's & BL2's - most needed gears, all run great now.
Sheldon
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
dh28473what causes them to crack?
Inferior material was used in the making of them, that could not handle expansion/contraction over time...when they first learned of it...that was their explanation, but they had many already equipped with them. At the time You could get Free sets through Mfg'er, but that soon stopped....but that's another story! The one's I have were run for two yrs', before they gave out.....another set of P2K GP7/9's that I got at the same time as the others, but never run...were already cracked, in box. They were ATSF Zebra stripe, all different road numbers, at the time. My LHS at the time, gave Me complete wheels, gears, axles for them, because He knew I bought them from Him. That's where the other story come's to play.....people abused getting the free be's.
Take Care!
Frank
Certain plastics shrink over time. When a plastic gear is molded around or pressed onto a metal axle, the shrinkage eventually causes the gear to crack. Basically, a poor choice of materials.
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
This was discussed many times in the past and many people either overlook it or don't know about it. Most all Athearns and some other like LL/P2k had a 12 to 1 gear ratio, that means there are 12 teeth on the axle gear. Almost all engines today have a 14 to 1 gear ratio, which makes their engines top speed lower, but performs better at low speeds....so that is what the MFG'ers did, they changed the drives on all newer engines to a higher gear ratio for better slow speed performance, sacrificing high speed. Most people wanted better slow speed control, verse's running faster. As long as the hole diameter is the same, any 12 tooth gear will work. Putting a 14 tooth gear in it Will not, it won't match with the idler gears.
Don't even waste Your time trying to repair them......replace. To make putting the axle sets on the new gears a little easier....stick them in Your freezer for awhile...just the axles, not the gears. You can take them out with a pair of needle nose pliers.
I replace all the axle gears in any Life Like P2K GP I buy. The correct Athearn part is 60024 containing 6 gears. Many times you can find multiple packs for a good price on eBay. I made a special fixture to speed up pressing the gears on the wheels. It takes more time to clean out the dried grease than it does to replace the gears. I found bad gears on a Proto 1000 F3 as well.
I belive I repaced several E unit gears with the same ones used in the 4 axle units. Mine all run great now and some are over 3 years old (new gears that is!).
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
peahrensIf the 4 axle diesels are all the same gearing(?) the Atherans fix is just fine and readily available.
AFAIK, all the LL geeps were the same.
The SD45 was infamous for having an odd gear ratio, which explains that. Not sure about the other six-axle units.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Thanks, Dave. I found one pack (of three wheelsets for E units) on EBay and ordered it. That should be plenty for me unless some of the other LL I have need those gears, for instance the P1K Erie Builts or the P2K PA/PB.
If the 4 axle diesels are all the same gearing(?) the Atherans fix is just fine and readily available.
When i go through and lube my units I'll have to count the teeth on the various type LL locos I have. I really enjoy converting them to DCC, though I've got 2-3 of many UP types and have slowed down on the procurement efforts (finally managing the temptations).
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
peahrens Not your Geep problem, but I also encountered this on a LL E6, though I was told the issue was uncommon on the 6-axle diesels. For mine, the Athearn gears commonly used were not the right number of teeth and did not seem to solve the problem, at least on that engine as (other than a different speed range) it did not run or sound right. I got some correct gears by buying a replacement truck from Walthers.
Not your Geep problem, but I also encountered this on a LL E6, though I was told the issue was uncommon on the 6-axle diesels. For mine, the Athearn gears commonly used were not the right number of teeth and did not seem to solve the problem, at least on that engine as (other than a different speed range) it did not run or sound right. I got some correct gears by buying a replacement truck from Walthers.
From time to time Walthers itself offers replacement wheel/gear sets for both the Geeps and the E units. At this time the E unit set is sold out but again, they reorder from time to time so if you are in need, it is not a bad idea to get your order in now.
https://www.walthers.com/replacement-geared-diesel-wheelsets-fits-early-proto-2000-r-e6-7-8-9-pkg-3
Here is the link for the similar replacement wheel/gear sets for the EMD Geeps, BL2 etc. They are also out of stock but in my experience are in a sort of perpetual re-order status.
https://www.walthers.com/replacement-geared-driver-assembly-diesel-wheelset-pkg-2-for-early-proto-2000-r-bl-fa-gp7-9-18-20-30-60-proto-1000-tm-f3
Dave Nelson
dh28473 I have some older gp 18s in the brownish gold boxes that have this problem. Do the ones in the newer blue boxes have the same problem or were they corrected by then?thanks 28473...
I have some older gp 18s in the brownish gold boxes that have this problem. Do the ones in the newer blue boxes have the same problem or were they corrected by then?thanks 28473...
Yes, the four axle geeps in the blue boxes have the same problem. When Walthers bought LifeLike, they began to ship the locomotive fully assembled (instead of the gimmicky two part assembly) in smaller grey colored boxes. That's how you tell the difference.
Those gps tend not to have the gear problem but I can't guarantee that there wasn't a short period of production overlap in the beginning.
- Douglas
I don't know if NWSL (typically more expensive) has the correct gears for any that don't take the usual Athearn gears. Correct meaning axle hole diameter, number of teeth and teeth cut. I'm not sure how many different gears the various LL diesels used, though I think there are more than two variations.
I have paid more money to fix over 30 LL PROTO gears replaced & lubed !
All my engines run great !
CHARTER MEMBER OF THE MILWAUKEE FALLEN FLAG MODEL TRAIN CLUB . I COLLECT HO, N , O-3rail & On30 Trains & run them ! I Use KATO HO & N scale Track . I also Use Lionel Fast Track ! I change track layouts Often !
"someone i know used white glue to repair the gears is it possible?"
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
No.
Yes you can fix them but by the time you invest in the tools needed and materials, it is much cheaper to replace them, even if you had 100 engines to do.
Athearn #60024, replacement axle gears.
Anyone using white glue to fix them is doing nothing but fooling themselves :-)
Once broke there is no fix other than replacement. It is quick easy and guaranteed.
I second what has been said already.
Swap them for Athearn gears and away you go. Think I am up to 5 or 6 now I have swapped axle gears in.
When you do the job I highly recommend a complete maintenance sweep of the engine. Clean out all factory lube which will turn to a heavy mud consistency if not harder and proper lube job.
Any P2K Geep made by Life-Like is suspectible to the cracked gear issue. IIRC, the ones in "newer blue boxes" were LL (before Walthers ownership), too.
Note that this issue is NOT a big deal to fix and can be done in about 10 minutes if you have the correct part. To access the axles, etc, you turn the loco upside down and pop the covers off the bottom of each truck, and simply lift-out and then reinstall the axles after they are regeared. Athearn Part 60024 (6/pack of axle gears) works and simply requires that the half-axles be pulled off the defective gears, new gear installed, then check for correct gauge.