DigitalGriffin Walthers / LL switched the gearing almost yearly. I never figured that out why they did that.
Walthers / LL switched the gearing almost yearly. I never figured that out why they did that.
Yes the constant redesign of the gear ratios stopped me from buying much after Walthers took over.
An ABA set of C&O F7's are the only "Walthers" Proto pieces I own. Their undecorated F7's were a disappointment since they came in a late 60's, no fuel skirt, snowplow pilot version with no other parts/options offered. I model 1954.
Being a DC operator, it is convenient to have a large fleet of different locos with the same drive under them - GP7's, BL2's, FA's (1&2), all in great numbers.
Sheldon
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I think part of the issue is that Walthers kept the Proto name when they took over the Life-Like line. Newer modellers buy - or consider buying - a brand new Walthers Proto engine, and then hear or read "all Proto engines have cracked gears" and so start searching online to find out about it and up pop these old posts about the LL engines.
If you ever wonder why some of us dislike reviving old threads, this is the reason why.
Rich
Alton Junction
omtech1 I've been going through all my LL Geeps and so far they are all cracked and replaced. I expect the new ones to crack eventually in the same way. Steel axel (2.4mm) forced into 2mm hole in a plastic part. What could happen.
I've been going through all my LL Geeps and so far they are all cracked and replaced. I expect the new ones to crack eventually in the same way. Steel axel (2.4mm) forced into 2mm hole in a plastic part. What could happen.
Actually, they used the wrong spec plastic on a lot of them, some 30 plus years ago.
I have about 50 Proto2000 locos, and I have replaced a lot of gears, and I have never had a replacement gear fail - not from Athearn, LifeLike or Walthers.
Back in the day, when the problem first surfaced, LifeLike gave away 10's of thousands of complete axle assemblies. I know I got 50 or so back then, so did lots of my friends. They are all still running.
Extremely tight fit of steel axel forced into plastic hole. Eventually the plastic breaks.
Yes, the swap is easy. While you're at it, get enough axles for any LL geeps or whatever that you have, and replace them all. Get some Labelle plastic grease while your at it, and do all the suspect engines in your inventory. Don’t waste time trying to fix just the ones that are broken. They're cheap and will fail anyway.
Oh, you won't be able to identify the crack without a magnifying lamp. Don’t bother.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Drilling a small pressure relief hole in the center of the gear (between teeth) is often recommended by youtube demos (at least when doing the baking soda/CA glue repairs). They say that the compressed air trapped between the axle and the gear when pressing the gear on is one of the causes of cracking. Nonsense? Something to it? Anyone here do this?
Thanks.
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
White glue is like elmers? No matter what you use as a glue, since axel is a tight fit, it will crack in exactly the same place.
I think I paid maybe $7 for a pack of the Athearn gears, that's 6 gears (since the Athearn gears are for a 6 axle unit) so 1 1/2 locos per pack. AFter the first one, I didn;t even wait for any others to fail, I just replaced them all. A bargain at any price, considering I paid $40 or less for each of those locos by careful shopping on eBay and at train shows.
If the cracked gear issue is the reason for the relatively low value assigned to these P2K locos, then I thank all the lazy modelers out there who allowed me to expand my motive power fleet with great running, highly detailed models at a bargain basement price.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
SeeYou190 SeeYou190 I have only had one locomotive with the problem so far. . Well, that is not true anymore. . I think the count is three or four now. . -Kevin .
SeeYou190 I have only had one locomotive with the problem so far.
.
Well, that is not true anymore.
I think the count is three or four now.
-Kevin
I have a bunch of Proto2000 locos, at least 50 or more. ALL of the 4 axle trucks have had at least one failed gear.
NONE have failed a second time after repalcement.
And other than that minor problem, all have been grat locos.
SeeYou190I have only had one locomotive with the problem so far.
Living the dream.
The best answer to the "why cracking" question I ever saw had to do with process control at the injection molder's factory. If the plastic beads are not adequately dried too much moisture gets into the molded part which degrades the mechanical properties.
The Athearn gear has 12 teeth so it will work on the Proto 2000 Geeps but the E8/9 uses an 11 tooth gear (and 36"wheels) so the common Athearn gear is not suitable.
IMG_0128_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
dano126Do you know if the Athearn parts will also work on a Proto 2000 E6 that has the same symptoms?
Jim
I had no issues pressing mine in by hand. Do use an NMRA gauge, even if they aren't pressed in to far that the backs touch and short, if they are pushed in too far, or not far enough, the loco will do a hop, skip, and a jump over turnouts and possibly derail. If they are not pushed in eavenly, the truck will run skewed and the loco may pick switch points or frogs.
This is not a difficult repair, you just have to use some care and work carefully if you haven't done it before. While you are in there, clean off the old grease and apply a SMALL amount of plastic-compatible grease like Labelle or similar. The whole gearbox does not need to be packed full.
I used a fine thread C-clamp to get the job done.
I have only had one locomotive with the problem so far.
There's a slight chamfer at the end of the axle stub to help you get the gear started. Be sure to press straight in and don't bottom out the gear against the back of the wheel, there should be a gap of a few thousandths on either side of the gear to the wheel back face.
Be sure to check the gauge when youre done. When the axle stubs are pressed in too far there is a risk of them touching and shorting.
Thanks. I will press them on then.
Modeling the D&H in 1984: http://dandhcoloniemain.blogspot.com/
Benjamin Maggi JEREMY CENTANNI Athearn #60024, replacement axle gears. I have a Life Like Proto 2000 Geep and I ordered Athearn #60024 replacement gears. They don't fit on the stub axles on the back of the Life Like wheels. The axles are too large in diameter. I don't think I can drill out the new gears to slip onto the axles, and I sure don't want to hammer/press them on (they will likely split)! So, a very odd situation. I reached out to NWSL to see what they recommend. I need all four axles replaced.
JEREMY CENTANNI Athearn #60024, replacement axle gears.
I have a Life Like Proto 2000 Geep and I ordered Athearn #60024 replacement gears. They don't fit on the stub axles on the back of the Life Like wheels. The axles are too large in diameter. I don't think I can drill out the new gears to slip onto the axles, and I sure don't want to hammer/press them on (they will likely split)!
So, a very odd situation. I reached out to NWSL to see what they recommend. I need all four axles replaced.
They are the correct gears, they are a tight fit, you need to press them on. A small vise works well.
The old gears split due to incorrect tolerances and too hard material. Many original gears did not split until years later do to temperature extremes.
I have over 50 Proto locos that I have replaced gears in. After doing 200 wheelsets, I can tell you they fit tight....
Which Geep? I have 4 GP7s and the Athearn 60024 fits them all.
S. ConnorHas it been completely destroyed? Or is there still hope?
It is probably still OK. I have had a few cases where the split gear was spread wide enough that the idler gear that drives the axle gear jams solid into the gap between the spread out teeth of the axle gear.
IF the gear jammed and power was left applied to the motor for enough time the windings could have been damaged. Once the wheels are out put test leads onto the brass contact strips and apply DC or DCC power, as the case may be, and slowly turn up the throttle— the motor of course should spin freely.
It is a simple matter to lay the engine in a foam cradle, bottom up, and using a very small flat-blade screwdriver slip the catches on one side of the truck gear case cover.
Once the cover is off you can gently wiggle and pry the wheelsets out of the housing (truck). The wheels will spin pretty freely if the gear is split.
Good Luck,
Ed
S. Connor My problem is that my P2K ran with a "thump-thump-thump". Cracked gears, obviously. It went in the box until I found time to fix it. Two weeks later my brother got a hold of it, and ran it until it just stopped. I cannot get it to show signs of life. Has it been completely destroyed? Or is there still hope?
My problem is that my P2K ran with a "thump-thump-thump". Cracked gears, obviously. It went in the box until I found time to fix it.
Two weeks later my brother got a hold of it, and ran it until it just stopped. I cannot get it to show signs of life. Has it been completely destroyed? Or is there still hope?
Take it apart. Gear probably broke completely and wedged into the rest of the truck locking it up.
It's not hard, go slow, take notes or pics and strip it down. Nasty factory lube is probably rock like in consistency as well.
ATSFGuy Why does Proto 2000 use such cheap breakable gears in the models to begin with? So far none of my Athearn Genesis Models have had gear problems. That's not thinking smart, It seems Proto is trying to "cut costs".
Why does Proto 2000 use such cheap breakable gears in the models to begin with?
So far none of my Athearn Genesis Models have had gear problems.
That's not thinking smart, It seems Proto is trying to "cut costs".
First of all, they were not "cheap breakable gears" they were made from the same kind of plastic as the Athearn gears.
Second, the actual problem was a wrong size hole for the axle to slide into, stressing the plastic too much, causing it to crack.
Third, this is a 20 year old problem, current, or even recent Proto locos, like the last 8-10 years, do not have this problem. The locos with the problem were produced 15-20 years ago.
BUT, many of them never got sold to consumers, and have been sitting on store or warehouse shelves and are now just being sold and used for the first time.
Storage, especially in cold conditions, makes the defective gears even more prone to fail.
And many more of these locos have sat on the shelves of modelers who never used them, and are continuiously showing up at train shows and on Ebay.
The problem was actually just one or two large runs of defective parts, Life Like gave away tens of thousands of replacement gears WAY BACK when it happened. But they then sold Proto to Walthers and no one can control all the new old stock locos that have never been out of the box and have been sitting around for two decades.
If you buy a new car with a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, and let it sit in your garage for 5 years before ever driving it - guess what, you don't have any warranty when you finally start to drive it...........so it was pretty nice of LifeLike and Walthers to give out free wheel sets as long as they did - over ten years.