I have some older gp 18s in the brownish gold boxes that have this problem. Do the ones in the newer blue boxes have the same problem or were they corrected by then?thanks 28473...
Any P2K Geep made by Life-Like is suspectible to the cracked gear issue. IIRC, the ones in "newer blue boxes" were LL (before Walthers ownership), too.
Note that this issue is NOT a big deal to fix and can be done in about 10 minutes if you have the correct part. To access the axles, etc, you turn the loco upside down and pop the covers off the bottom of each truck, and simply lift-out and then reinstall the axles after they are regeared. Athearn Part 60024 (6/pack of axle gears) works and simply requires that the half-axles be pulled off the defective gears, new gear installed, then check for correct gauge.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I second what has been said already.
Swap them for Athearn gears and away you go. Think I am up to 5 or 6 now I have swapped axle gears in.
When you do the job I highly recommend a complete maintenance sweep of the engine. Clean out all factory lube which will turn to a heavy mud consistency if not harder and proper lube job.
Athearn #60024, replacement axle gears.
Anyone using white glue to fix them is doing nothing but fooling themselves :-)
Once broke there is no fix other than replacement. It is quick easy and guaranteed.
Yes you can fix them but by the time you invest in the tools needed and materials, it is much cheaper to replace them, even if you had 100 engines to do.
"someone i know used white glue to repair the gears is it possible?"
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
No.
I have paid more money to fix over 30 LL PROTO gears replaced & lubed !
All my engines run great !
CHARTER MEMBER OF THE MILWAUKEE FALLEN FLAG MODEL TRAIN CLUB . I COLLECT HO, N , O-3rail & On30 Trains & run them ! I Use KATO HO & N scale Track . I also Use Lionel Fast Track ! I change track layouts Often !
Not your Geep problem, but I also encountered this on a LL E6, though I was told the issue was uncommon on the 6-axle diesels. For mine, the Athearn gears commonly used were not the right number of teeth and did not seem to solve the problem, at least on that engine as (other than a different speed range) it did not run or sound right. I got some correct gears by buying a replacement truck from Walthers.
I don't know if NWSL (typically more expensive) has the correct gears for any that don't take the usual Athearn gears. Correct meaning axle hole diameter, number of teeth and teeth cut. I'm not sure how many different gears the various LL diesels used, though I think there are more than two variations.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
dh28473 I have some older gp 18s in the brownish gold boxes that have this problem. Do the ones in the newer blue boxes have the same problem or were they corrected by then?thanks 28473...
Yes, the four axle geeps in the blue boxes have the same problem. When Walthers bought LifeLike, they began to ship the locomotive fully assembled (instead of the gimmicky two part assembly) in smaller grey colored boxes. That's how you tell the difference.
Those gps tend not to have the gear problem but I can't guarantee that there wasn't a short period of production overlap in the beginning.
- Douglas
peahrens Not your Geep problem, but I also encountered this on a LL E6, though I was told the issue was uncommon on the 6-axle diesels. For mine, the Athearn gears commonly used were not the right number of teeth and did not seem to solve the problem, at least on that engine as (other than a different speed range) it did not run or sound right. I got some correct gears by buying a replacement truck from Walthers.
From time to time Walthers itself offers replacement wheel/gear sets for both the Geeps and the E units. At this time the E unit set is sold out but again, they reorder from time to time so if you are in need, it is not a bad idea to get your order in now.
https://www.walthers.com/replacement-geared-diesel-wheelsets-fits-early-proto-2000-r-e6-7-8-9-pkg-3
Here is the link for the similar replacement wheel/gear sets for the EMD Geeps, BL2 etc. They are also out of stock but in my experience are in a sort of perpetual re-order status.
https://www.walthers.com/replacement-geared-driver-assembly-diesel-wheelset-pkg-2-for-early-proto-2000-r-bl-fa-gp7-9-18-20-30-60-proto-1000-tm-f3
Dave Nelson
Thanks, Dave. I found one pack (of three wheelsets for E units) on EBay and ordered it. That should be plenty for me unless some of the other LL I have need those gears, for instance the P1K Erie Builts or the P2K PA/PB.
If the 4 axle diesels are all the same gearing(?) the Atherans fix is just fine and readily available.
When i go through and lube my units I'll have to count the teeth on the various type LL locos I have. I really enjoy converting them to DCC, though I've got 2-3 of many UP types and have slowed down on the procurement efforts (finally managing the temptations).
peahrensIf the 4 axle diesels are all the same gearing(?) the Atherans fix is just fine and readily available.
AFAIK, all the LL geeps were the same.
The SD45 was infamous for having an odd gear ratio, which explains that. Not sure about the other six-axle units.
I belive I repaced several E unit gears with the same ones used in the 4 axle units. Mine all run great now and some are over 3 years old (new gears that is!).
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
I replace all the axle gears in any Life Like P2K GP I buy. The correct Athearn part is 60024 containing 6 gears. Many times you can find multiple packs for a good price on eBay. I made a special fixture to speed up pressing the gears on the wheels. It takes more time to clean out the dried grease than it does to replace the gears. I found bad gears on a Proto 1000 F3 as well.
This was discussed many times in the past and many people either overlook it or don't know about it. Most all Athearns and some other like LL/P2k had a 12 to 1 gear ratio, that means there are 12 teeth on the axle gear. Almost all engines today have a 14 to 1 gear ratio, which makes their engines top speed lower, but performs better at low speeds....so that is what the MFG'ers did, they changed the drives on all newer engines to a higher gear ratio for better slow speed performance, sacrificing high speed. Most people wanted better slow speed control, verse's running faster. As long as the hole diameter is the same, any 12 tooth gear will work. Putting a 14 tooth gear in it Will not, it won't match with the idler gears.
Don't even waste Your time trying to repair them......replace. To make putting the axle sets on the new gears a little easier....stick them in Your freezer for awhile...just the axles, not the gears. You can take them out with a pair of needle nose pliers.
Take Care!
Frank
dh28473what causes them to crack?
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
Certain plastics shrink over time. When a plastic gear is molded around or pressed onto a metal axle, the shrinkage eventually causes the gear to crack. Basically, a poor choice of materials.
Inferior material was used in the making of them, that could not handle expansion/contraction over time...when they first learned of it...that was their explanation, but they had many already equipped with them. At the time You could get Free sets through Mfg'er, but that soon stopped....but that's another story! The one's I have were run for two yrs', before they gave out.....another set of P2K GP7/9's that I got at the same time as the others, but never run...were already cracked, in box. They were ATSF Zebra stripe, all different road numbers, at the time. My LHS at the time, gave Me complete wheels, gears, axles for them, because He knew I bought them from Him. That's where the other story come's to play.....people abused getting the free be's.
And then there are those like me who bought a bunch (11 GP30's and 4 SD7/'9s) and they were in storage during the time I could have gotten free replacements (and they should be free since I bought my LLP2K engines new and they had defective cracked gears). But snooze and loose. Walthers owns P2K and probably would tell me sorry, you waited too long.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 And then there are those like me who bought a bunch (11 GP30's and 4 SD7/'9s) and they were in storage during the time I could have gotten free replacements (and they should be free since I bought my LLP2K engines new and they had defective cracked gears). But snooze and loose. Walthers owns P2K and probably would tell me sorry, you waited too long.
Yes, Walthers has finally cut off the warranty service on all that 15-20 year old LifeLike produced stuff.
I got a nice stock of free axle sets from LifeLike back in the day, and have bought more since.
I have seldom messed with buying the Athearn gears and repairing the axle sets.
None of the Proto replacement axle sets I have installed have ever failed - I have a total of about 60 GP7's, FA's & BL2's - most needed gears, all run great now.
Sheldon
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
Why does Proto 2000 use such cheap breakable gears in the models to begin with?
So far none of my Athearn Genesis Models have had gear problems.
That's not thinking smart, It seems Proto is trying to "cut costs".
ATSFGuy Why does Proto 2000 use such cheap breakable gears in the models to begin with? So far none of my Athearn Genesis Models have had gear problems. That's not thinking smart, It seems Proto is trying to "cut costs".
First of all, they were not "cheap breakable gears" they were made from the same kind of plastic as the Athearn gears.
Second, the actual problem was a wrong size hole for the axle to slide into, stressing the plastic too much, causing it to crack.
Third, this is a 20 year old problem, current, or even recent Proto locos, like the last 8-10 years, do not have this problem. The locos with the problem were produced 15-20 years ago.
BUT, many of them never got sold to consumers, and have been sitting on store or warehouse shelves and are now just being sold and used for the first time.
Storage, especially in cold conditions, makes the defective gears even more prone to fail.
And many more of these locos have sat on the shelves of modelers who never used them, and are continuiously showing up at train shows and on Ebay.
The problem was actually just one or two large runs of defective parts, Life Like gave away tens of thousands of replacement gears WAY BACK when it happened. But they then sold Proto to Walthers and no one can control all the new old stock locos that have never been out of the box and have been sitting around for two decades.
If you buy a new car with a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, and let it sit in your garage for 5 years before ever driving it - guess what, you don't have any warranty when you finally start to drive it...........so it was pretty nice of LifeLike and Walthers to give out free wheel sets as long as they did - over ten years.
My problem is that my P2K ran with a "thump-thump-thump". Cracked gears, obviously. It went in the box until I found time to fix it.
Two weeks later my brother got a hold of it, and ran it until it just stopped. I cannot get it to show signs of life. Has it been completely destroyed? Or is there still hope?
S. Connor My problem is that my P2K ran with a "thump-thump-thump". Cracked gears, obviously. It went in the box until I found time to fix it. Two weeks later my brother got a hold of it, and ran it until it just stopped. I cannot get it to show signs of life. Has it been completely destroyed? Or is there still hope?
Take it apart. Gear probably broke completely and wedged into the rest of the truck locking it up.
It's not hard, go slow, take notes or pics and strip it down. Nasty factory lube is probably rock like in consistency as well.
S. ConnorHas it been completely destroyed? Or is there still hope?
It is probably still OK. I have had a few cases where the split gear was spread wide enough that the idler gear that drives the axle gear jams solid into the gap between the spread out teeth of the axle gear.
IF the gear jammed and power was left applied to the motor for enough time the windings could have been damaged. Once the wheels are out put test leads onto the brass contact strips and apply DC or DCC power, as the case may be, and slowly turn up the throttle— the motor of course should spin freely.
It is a simple matter to lay the engine in a foam cradle, bottom up, and using a very small flat-blade screwdriver slip the catches on one side of the truck gear case cover.
Once the cover is off you can gently wiggle and pry the wheelsets out of the housing (truck). The wheels will spin pretty freely if the gear is split.
Good Luck,
Ed
JEREMY CENTANNI Athearn #60024, replacement axle gears.
I have a Life Like Proto 2000 Geep and I ordered Athearn #60024 replacement gears. They don't fit on the stub axles on the back of the Life Like wheels. The axles are too large in diameter. I don't think I can drill out the new gears to slip onto the axles, and I sure don't want to hammer/press them on (they will likely split)!
So, a very odd situation. I reached out to NWSL to see what they recommend. I need all four axles replaced.
Modeling the D&H in 1984: http://dandhcoloniemain.blogspot.com/