Sheldon--
Wow, ok, I wasn't attempting to push the hot button or to get anybody fired up here, at all.
One important distinction: some of the steam models I want to own are simply not available in plastic (or as yet even as a hybrid) at any price, and never were. Nothing in plastic is even "close" to some of the engines. It's not like I could buy something "close" and detail it even if I had the skills/time/etc. to do it.
For me there is a certain satisfaction in owning just a handful of models that are much nicer than anything I can possibly build myself, because I think the fine models themselves are "art". For me to own something that is one of only eleven made in the world, that I cannot possibly build or even paint, myself, is actually pretty cool--but I'm going to run it and not just sit it on the shelf. Yes, to me the fine art models are "worth owning" but I was absolutely not trying to project that onto anyone or everyone else. There are hybrids and plastic models that are "worth owning"...I just prefer road specific steam, which with limited exceptions forces me into a more expensive category.
I have attempted kitbashing freight cars and quickly learned it's just not for me. I tried to do a Reading Class GHP mill gondola (planed down sides of an Athearn 50' gon and started adding new ribs). I did finish it, painted and lettered it, but in my opinion, it was a miserable fail, and I threw it away after running it on my layout for a few years, because I was ashamed of my work.
I don't disrespect people who want to build or customize their own models in any way. It's just not me.
I never said you or anyone else should want what I want.
I was saying that from my 20's to now (I'm 48) the nice folks I've met at train shows have become my friends and taught me a great deal.
John
Well said, John. One reason that brass models will always be marketable is as John put it...if there is nothing available in either plastic or cast that represents what he is modeling or looking for.... try brass. In brass, a good chance exists that a specific model may be found as so many different roads and equipment have been done over the years.
Value....I've almost given up trying to explain to newbies that if a specific model that they want and if there is a choice between plastic/cast or brass, go for the brass counterpart if affordable. Brass by far will hold its value much better than the mass produced plastic/cast counterpart. In days past, many times a small profit could be obtained when selling the brass model. Today, possibly a small gain if bought right, kept well, and becomes rare or extremely desireable. But on the whole, if your brass model is not wholesaled, you should at least break even or come close. Plastic/cast.....forgetaboutit!!!
Runability....With only three exceptions, I have not seen a brass model that can not be tweaked or modified to run to perfection. Actually I now have one of the three dogs that has been modified and tweaked and is now close to being perfect. The three dogs.....well I hate to say bad things about anything, but I'm sure that most who read this are curious. This is my opinion and I'm sure some would disagree. Here are my choices for the hall of shame....NWSL/FED Cotten Belt 4-4-2. Alco PRR E5 4-4-2, and Alco NYC K3 4-6-2. The Alco K3 is the one that is now perfect.
HZ
ATLANTIC CENTRAL ......not really interested in "already been played with" stuff at train shows, brass or otherwise.... Sheldon
......not really interested in "already been played with" stuff at train shows, brass or otherwise....
Sheldon
Sheldon,
I've read your posts over the years and respect your opinions on many things. Always well reasoned and backed up with experience. But the above statement has been said many times and I just don't see the consistency with what I think your approach to the hobby is.
While maybe not a pure or frequent scratchbuilder, your experience in hobby shops and kitbashing your various models indicate to me you have no aversion towards repairing model trains, definitely not a modeler who only buys something and places it on the track unmodified because he has too.
Given that approach, I would think you would be a frequent buyer of "already played with" models...getting them for good prices then using your skills to fix them up the way you want them...yet you say that you hardly ever do. That's why a lot of us buy used, to fix them up to suit our needs.
Like I said, I enjoy reading your posts and how you approach the hobby, but I can't seem to understand your displeasure with buying used items considering your experience. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but I would be interested in knowing a little more of your thinking.
- Douglas
Howard ZaneValue....I've almost given up trying to explain to newbies that if a specific model that they want and if there is a choice between plastic/cast or brass, go for the brass counterpart if affordable. Brass by far will hold its value much better than the mass produced plastic/cast counterpart. In days past, many times a small profit could be obtained when selling the brass model. Today, possibly a small gain if bought right, kept well, and becomes rare or extremely desireable. But on the whole, if your brass model is not wholesaled, you should at least break even or come close. Plastic/cast.....forgetaboutit!!!
Only because the majority can't afford brass and because its made in small runs that's why it holds it value but,detail wise brass diesels may lose against plastic like the higher detailed Genesis type models.
One look at the price tag of a brass locomotive the average new modeler will choose plastic at the fraction of the costs. Compare the new brass announcements to the plastic announcements.
Have you heard about or seen the new Scale Trains pre production SD40-2? No? It has all the brass SD40-2s beat and with DCC/Sound at $199.00 its sure to be a hit. Don't want all the details? Their Operator line with DCC/Sound is $119.00. The DCC ready is $79.00. Both will need grabs plows,uncoupling bars and mu hoses added at the modeler's convenience..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Yes, I read the Atlas forum, but closed my account, so cannot reply or see some photos. The announcement looks great. Hopefully their handrails will not be exceedingly fragile as some others'.
As far as "affordability" is concerned, I stood and watched while my friend picked up a bunch of HO brass passenger cars: free rolling, nickel plated bodies, painted and lettered Amtrak as appropriate, with windows already installed, for about the same as the current MSRP for similar cars in HO plastic.
Not all brass has to be expensive--and sometimes the older run brass models can be a better value than anything new...depending upon what a buyer wants.
In case you haven't noticed, the plastic diesel prices (with sound and DCC) are rapidly approaching the prices of good used brass diesels, depending, once again, upon the exact model in question and the drivetrain in it...and of course, plain DC is no problem for me.
By Sheldon's admission, he might have more than $10000 invested in his customized HO steamers, through the years. All my trains, the layout, books, etc., everything railroad related that I have add up to about half of that. We all have to decide how best to spend our limited resources. I don't need a lot of trains, only a few.
Your choices may differ.
PRR8259 Yes, I read the Atlas forum, but closed my account, so cannot reply or see some photos. The announcement looks great. Hopefully their handrails will not be exceedingly fragile as some others'. As far as "affordability" is concerned, I stood and watched while my friend picked up a bunch of HO brass passenger cars: free rolling, nickel plated bodies, painted and lettered Amtrak as appropriate, with windows already installed, for about the same as the current MSRP for similar cars in HO plastic. Not all brass has to be expensive--and sometimes the older run brass models can be a better value than anything new...depending upon what a buyer wants. In case you haven't noticed, the plastic diesel prices (with sound and DCC) are rapidly approaching the prices of good used brass diesels, depending, once again, upon the exact model in question and the drivetrain in it...and of course, plain DC is no problem for me. By Sheldon's admission, he might have more than $10000 invested in his customized HO steamers, through the years. All my trains, the layout, books, etc., everything railroad related that I have add up to about half of that. We all have to decide how best to spend our limited resources. I don't need a lot of trains, only a few. Your choices may differ. John
OK, where do I start.
First, yes I likely have $10,000 in locos, diesel and steam, most (but not all) purchased in the last 25-30 years - I've been at this hobby nearly 50 years now. In raw numbers my fleet is mostly diesel, since most trains are pulled by 3-4 powered unit sets. Most of my diesels are Proto2000, Intermountain and Genesis - all first generation to fit the era of my layout.
Steam represents about 50 pieces of the 130 locos. Most are Spectrum, Proto2000, a few BLI, two brass, and a few others. Most have been customized or kit bashed in some way - some a little, some a lot. Most are lettered for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL, others are all B&O, C&O, and WM and most are reasonably proto correct.
I also have nearly 1000 freight cars, 200 passenger cars, and countless other bits and pieces that allow one to build a layout that fills 1000 sq ft.
Not to mention tools, air brushes, etc, etc - because I like to build models.
BUT, it has taken a life time to get to this point - WITHOUT EVER selling off everything and starting over. I started at age 10, I'm 59 now..........
So even if we look as loco purchases just over the last 25 years, that's only $400 a year in locos.
Now, about brass. I get the craftsmanship thing, I get the proto specific thing, I get the quality thing. All good reasons to buy brass if they fit your era and roadname goals, especially if there are no other choices.
I have two, and there are one or two more I would not mind having - maybe one day real soon.
But, to use an example from my layout, both of my brass locos are USRA light Pacifics, and both have been modified and lettered for my ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
Some how I think that did in the resale value argument........
They now have plastic Delta trailing trucks and Bachmann Spectrum long haul tenders.....
Which brings us to this "resale" topic. Remember, I just said I have never sold off my trains and then bought new/more.
In fact, in 49 years, I have only sold off about 6 items total........
I don't buy stuff, get bored, change my mind, sell it off at a loss, and then buy the next thing to get bored with that. Not with cars, or boats, or jet skis, or motorcyles, and surely not with trains. It simply is not who I am or how I am built.
I have never bought "toys", or "luxuries", unless I could truely aford them, and I learned a long time ago who I am and what I like - so I don't generally get "bored" with my choices - in anything.
I still have the 1700 record albums I have purchased over my lifetime - still in near mint condition, only played on the best equipment......back to trains....
So why would I worry about the resale value of something I have no intention of ever selling? And since I would modify them, and letter them for my private road, resale value would be compromised anyway? Keeping them stone cold stock, in most cases, would provide no enjoyment for me - except in once case, a WM K2 Pacific........
John says he only needs a few trains, just like I only need to have loco models from a few prototypes. My layout goals are very specific, and are easliy withing my means - so long as I don't spend $100,000 on that loco fleet, or $10-20k on DCC and sound I don't like or need.
But I have nine Spectrum 4-8-2 Heavies so that my railroad has a realistic fleet look. In fact, I have anywhere from 2 to 10 of nearly every loco that says ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
John, you have to admit, in the context of this whole discussion, the "worth owning" comment was a bit "snobish", don't you think?
You have admitted your not a "builder", OK, that's fine....I'm not a "collector" of the fine work of others.
But down to the last blue box freight car, I consider all my trains all "worth owning" because together as a whole they make a complete package that I created - kind of like Howards beautiful layout......
Doughless ATLANTIC CENTRAL ......not really interested in "already been played with" stuff at train shows, brass or otherwise.... Sheldon Sheldon, I've read your posts over the years and respect your opinions on many things. Always well reasoned and backed up with experience. But the above statement has been said many times and I just don't see the consistency with what I think your approach to the hobby is. While maybe not a pure or frequent scratchbuilder, your experience in hobby shops and kitbashing your various models indicate to me you have no aversion towards repairing model trains, definitely not a modeler who only buys something and places it on the track unmodified because he has too. Given that approach, I would think you would be a frequent buyer of "already played with" models...getting them for good prices then using your skills to fix them up the way you want them...yet you say that you hardly ever do. That's why a lot of us buy used, to fix them up to suit our needs. Like I said, I enjoy reading your posts and how you approach the hobby, but I can't seem to understand your displeasure with buying used items considering your experience. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but I would be interested in knowing a little more of your thinking.
Well, I'm happy to explain. I will admit I'm a little neurotic about that kind of stuff.
There is actually a list of somewhat unrelated reasons for my behavior on this topic.
First, I prefer having the boxes, paperwork, etc - not for resale or collector value - just because it feels "complete". And I store most models in their original boxes if they are not on the layout. Yes, I have a 1000 or more freght car boxes........
Second, I don't value the "hunt" and I don't like "negotiating the deal" like some people do. I much prefer to walk into the store, pay a fair price, and go home. OR, better yet, www.sendittomenow.com...........
In fact, I hardly ever went to the train shows back when they were real busy. Pushing, shoving, waiting, being cut in front of by rude people, noise, confussion, digging through stuff, etc - none of that is fun to me. It is just a necessary evil of finding some of the parts I need.
Now, having said all that. I can scout a train show for NOS stuff on my list, buy some stuff, and get going in a few hours or less - especially these days.
I just don't want stuff others have messed around with a whole bunch - it's not about money one way or the other.
And my want list is very specific anyway, I would not be walking through the train show, see something and think "what can I do with this". My project list is already too long.
I stopped buying used cars when I could aford new ones - but I keep them a long time (don't get bored with them either). I don't buy used tools for my construction business, I bought one high quality garden tractor brand new and it has lasted 20 years and going strong - I just prefer to buy new, or at least in the box "new old stock" even if it's from a private seller.
On the value bit, I agree as I rarely sell any of my equipment that operates on my pike. I do care about value as I'm now a "collectible" age wise (upgrade from artifact) and when I eventually join the after-life, my family will be the ones disposing of the serious mess of trains. Knowing values and having many models of quality will greatly be a help.
Howard Zane Sheldon, On the value bit, I agree as I rarely sell any of my equipment that operates on my pike. I do care about value as I'm now a "collectible" age wise (upgrade from artifact) and when I eventually join the after-life, my family will be the ones disposing of the serious mess of trains. Knowing values and having many models of quality will greatly be a help. HZ
Howard,
I understand and respect that. And having worked in this business when I was young, I have no interest in being in the business side of this hobby now.
What happens to our trains when we are gone is a totally separate issue in my mind. But if I only paid $100 for a loco, who cares if they only get $50 at the yard sale? That's still a $5k yard sale for a bunch of toys I had a lots of fun with......
PRR8259In case you haven't noticed, the plastic diesel prices (with sound and DCC) are rapidly approaching the prices of good used brass diesels, depending, once again, upon the exact model in question and the drivetrain in it...and of course, plain DC is no problem for me.
I agree at full MSRP but,there are discounts. I've seen brass diesels from Hallmark,Alco Models and Trains Inc for as low as $85.00 but,all had that loud KTM drive I remember them from the 60s when I had several@ $32.95 each and back then that gear whine was acceptable. Of course the steam engines had the smoother drives. My United Santa Fe 1950 Class 2-8-0 ran rather quiet as did my United Class B 2 Truck Shay.
Even with that said I might be trading for a Trains Inc RS1325 custom painted for his Toledo Shore Ry.
The newer brass is what 500-600 locomotives for the run?
One more thought about brass, 10 minutes after I saw the first Atlas diesel, or surely after I saw the first Proto2000 diesel, I was sure I would never buy another brass diesel ever again.
The one brass diesel I once had was one of the six pieces I sold off.........many years ago......
Email and internet posts cannot convey tone.
My "worth owning" remark was not intended to be snobbish and I'm sorry if it read that way to you. It seems to me you missed the point of that paragraph...
BRAKIE The newer brass is what 500-600 locomotives for the run?
Maybe hybrids? I don't know numbers.
The newer (non-hybrid) brass is 50 or 60 locomotives for a run, split into groups of as little as 10 of each version. Someday, perhaps others outside the hobby will see the incredible detailing, rarity, and yes, value, in those engines and perhaps then they will be viewed as art just like many of the much more common objects seen on the Antiques Road Show.
As for plastic diesels (or almost any diesels) I've spent a great deal of time online window shopping and simply can't find one that I need enough to separate me from my money.
I just like steam.
PRR8259 Sheldon-- As for plastic diesels (or almost any diesels) I've spent a great deal of time online window shopping and simply can't find one that I need enough to separate me from my money. I just like steam. John
There in lies the real difference betwen our modeling.
What railroad do you model? Whst era do you model?
I "model" 1954, railroads had diesels in 1954. I'm interested in creating a believable image of 1954, even for the fictional roadname.
I'm not interested in collecting and running trains just because I "like" them. I did pick an era in railroad history that includes most of what I like, and I stick to the place and time I chose.
PRR8259I just like steam. John
That United Santa Fe 2-8-0 and 2 Truck Shay I had back in the 60s was far better detailed then any brass diesel back then.
I seen a brass C&O/N&W 0-8-0 at a train show that was beautifully detailed to the max. IIRC it was $275.00 on "Train Show Special" deal...It blew the Walthers P2K 0-8-0 out of the water.
Yes, indeed, Larry. I would have to agree. I really liked the P2K 0-8-0, even owned one just within the last year (it's a great little engine) but sold it when I bought the first brass steamer in awhile.
Sheldon--I attempted to stick to an era, and tried hard (Santa Fe 1970's) but just couldn't. It's my railroad, with mostly southwestern desert scenery, could be west Texas, or parts of Arizona, or Mojave Desert ...and I run what I like, period.
I don't care for solid trains of freight car red, blackened freight cars like 1951, but like 1960's/70's freight cars...so for my railroad steam hung on a little longer. Again, it's my railroad. It can be the way some might have wished it would have been, if only steam didn't succomb so soon.
PRR8259 Yes, indeed, Larry. I would have to agree. I really liked the P2K 0-8-0, even owned one just within the last year (it's a great little engine) but sold it when I bought the first brass steamer in awhile. Sheldon--I attempted to stick to an era, and tried hard (Santa Fe 1970's) but just couldn't. It's my railroad, with mostly southwestern desert scenery, could be west Texas, or parts of Arizona, or Mojave Desert ...and I run what I like, period. I don't care for solid trains of freight car red, blackened freight cars like 1951, but like 1960's/70's freight cars...so for my railroad steam hung on a little longer. Again, it's my railroad. It can be the way some might have wished it would have been, if only steam didn't succomb so soon. John
Actually, the post war era, and my 1954 time period is full of colorful paint schemes. B&O Sentinel Service, NYC Pacemaker, and many others. And the color photo evidence suggests railroads were generally in good repair and relatively clean in that period. Lots of stuff was brand new, a result of catching up on deferred war maintenence and buying new equipment.
Another area where we differ widely, I have little interest in western roads and no interest in western scenery........
So, while I am a big supporter of doing whatever you like in this hobby, I do find it interesting the number of people who are very particular about the proto specific details of a single loco, or car, but who are not concerned with the overal context of their layout.
I am the exact opposite. I like cars and locos to be accurate, but I'm not obsessed, partly because, in the case of steam locos, changes were made all the time. I don't have photos of every B&O or C&O loco I want to madel that were taken on September 23, 1954, to know what those locos looked like for sure in the time setting of my layout.
So close enough to give the correct "feel" is close enough.......
On the other hand, I want the layout as a whole to convey a sense of that time in history. So things that were generally gone, are gone. And things not yet built or invented are not shown.
The newest diesels I own, a pair of SD9's, fresh from LaGrange.......
I do take a little license with a few small facts, but it takes a real expert on a few obscure facts to notice......
I model lots of early piggyback, I have about 150 piggyback flats alone - three trains worth - I run long trains........
I am more than happy with shorty passenger cars - 9-12 Athearn cars, super detailed, close coupled wth touching/working diaphragms, moving gracefully around my 36" curves, looks way more realistic to me than 6 or 7 85' cars with wide gaps between them looking as if they are in the switching yard at restricted speeds as they go around the curves.
I have kit bashed all manner of passengers cars not made by Athearn or ConCor, plus all the extra detail, so much so, many people ask "what brand of passenger cars are those".
But that is were the fun is for me, building trains, not just the layout and structures, but I like building structures too.
I tried to put trains in an appropriate, rural context, and tried to achieve the illusion of great distance by having 3 overall "scenes" on the layout. Never got to buildings excepting one barn. Just did pick up the Woodland Scenics LED lighted movie theatre...
Since the new T&P engine might not operate on my current eased curves, I may rebuild part of the layout to accommodate it, but trackwork is cheap. It would give me the chance to "fix" some things. Adding nice bridges is where the real cost might come in.
This thread was begun as a discussion about the importance of train shows and how they affect the now and future of our hobby. Please add thoughts and ideas on this subject. I'm always amazed how topics go way off original subject matter.
I can see it is time for me to go build a few more trains...........
Howard ZaneThis thread was begun as a discussion about the importance of train shows and how they affect the now and future of our hobby.
They don't. The shows will go by the way of dail phones,transistor radios and 8 track tape players. They will fade into the sunset as prices get higher and the dealers can't compete with on line shopping. Then there's the travel cost, the cost of parking,the admission cost near MSRP and ridiculous prices for older models used or the supposedly "new old stock" that is 20- 30 years old. They are shooting their selves in the foot with these ridiculious prices. You can buy new cheaper on line.
A life line might be to return to the shows of old where hobbyist sold their surplus models and the few dealers sold estates..
Larry,
Look around, shows are still attracting individuals and many estate sales.
Many of your comments are negative on several issues. I see zero constructive thinking in your posts. Perhaps you should drink from a glass that is half full, and of course please spend more time on your railroad!
Howard ZaneMany of your comments are negative on several issues. I see zero constructive thinking in your posts. Perhaps you should drink from a glass that is half full, and of course please spend more time on your railroad! HZ
Maybe that's because I don't look through rose color classes and live in yesteryear?
Mom and Pop hobby shops can't compete neither can train shows and those hobby shops fell like king pins. Take a close look at the close mom and pop stores of all kind. Amazon and e-Bay has put the hurt to them as well as the bigger box stores.
On line hobby shops and shops with a on line presence will survive.Train shows and shops clinging to the old business as usual ways will fade away.
Walthers,Atlas,Horizon,Scale Trains,Athearn,Exact Rail and all the other manufacturers has direct ordering some with discounts. The next phase will be to eliminate the middleman by the remaining shops ordering direct.
As far as driving to a show why should I? I can order my needs at my computer or whip out my smart phone and order and within minutes I can work on the layout,a workbench(desk really) project or switch cars. Sounds like a good way to spend your allotted hobby time since you get more done.
I'm not the only that sees that is the best and maybe the safest method since there is no traveling involved and less wear and tear on the vehicle plus the aforementioned expenes...
[quote user="BRAKIE"]course please spend more time on your railroad! HZ Maybe that's because I don't look through rose color classes and live in yesteryear? Mom and Pop hobby shops can't compete neither can train shows and those hobby shops fell like king pins. Take a close look at the close mom and pop stores of all kind. Amazon and e-Bay has put the hurt to them as well as the bigger box stores. On line hobby shops and shops with a on line presence will survive.Train shows and shops clinging to the old business as usual ways will fade away. Walthers,Atlas,Horizon,Scale Trains,Athearn,Exact Rail and all the other manufacturers has direct ordering some with discounts. The next phase will be to eliminate the middleman by the remaining shops ordering direct. As far as driving to a show why should I? I can order my needs at my computer or whip out my smart phone and order and within minutes I can work on the layout,a workbench(desk really) project or switch cars. Sounds like a good way to spend your allotted hobby time since you get more done. I'm not the only that sees that is the best and maybe the safest method since there is no traveling involved
I do agree that marketing is changing....part of the original post question! What you say is most likey going to happen as it already has in many fields if not all. Still with model railroading, on-line ordering works well for those who know what they seek.
Do you honestly feel that a possible newbie will enter this hobby by ordering a model which he or she knows nothing about from an electric menu?? I think not, and it is the train show or LHS that will offer this newbie or possible newbie a first hand look at a wonderful hobby and first hand advise. In my over three decades of co-running the Timonium show, I can speak with some credibility about how "civilians" have come to the shows, not knowing what to expect... except for seeing trains...and have come back purchasing entry level trains and then some.
Again try drinking from a glass that is half full.....it may taste somewhat better than the stuff in the glass which is half empty!
For awhile, I did not attend too many train shows. The usual arguments about gasoline, parking cost, admission, show food, etc...
But I didn't totally give up, and I found out my preconceived notions were way wrong.
There have been some outrageous bargains at recent shows, that did sell quickly:
PFM Rio Grande L-131 2-8-8-2's, late runs with can motors, painted very nicely, for the unheard of price of less than $600. Those things will run and run. Those prices are virtually half the 1990's price on that particular model...There's folks selling the Proto 2000 2-8-8-2's for well north of $400. It doesn't always cost that much more, nowadays, for something that's honestly a bit better than Proto 2000.
I found all manner of bargains at the last show. Beautiful (rare roadname) Genesis diesels for $100...
I just tried to stick to my personal theme, but I could easily have spent some serious cash...
I don't understand the hate for the train shows.
I will admit the deals aren't like they used to be, but still plenty to be had depending on your tastes. I crack up at the price of gas, food and parking when anyone in this thread that has bought a new locomotive has dropped at least $100 on it
I also am willing to bet 99% of the people here don't make a train show a real road trip or a vacation. It's just one of those things. The way you guys talk about it maybe I need to go to Timonium one year however!
I've mentioned earlier I hit the Great Midwest Train Show as many times as I can. It takes me an hr to hr and a half to get there. I usually meet up with one of my friends out that way. I take my older boy with me and my Dad has come along once or twice to boot. We all get the chance to get together, relax, check out sutff for sale, dig for deals and have some fun. We hit the McD's afterword and talk.
I'm wondering if some people are doing train shows wrong?
First place my boy wants to go, along with every other kid I see is the stage in the main building with the layout of the month that is there. I've seen everything from Lego trains, to multi-gauge layouts and everything in between. Same goes for the other buildings where they have any type of layout. It is where the kids go. They are not exposed to this stuff anymore unless there is something to take them to. That means you and I, we take them, we show them. No show? This hobby will go down the toilet.
A train show is not a life changing event, but it sure as heck should be a fun one.
Why debate train shows at all?
You like them, you go to them. You don't like them, you don't go to them.
Seems simple enough to me.
I started in the HO scale side of the hobby in early 2004. I went to a train show back then, found it boring and a waste of my time, never went back to another one. I survived in the hobby quite nicely without train shows, and the train shows survived quite nicely without me.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainWhy debate train shows at all? You like them, you go to them. You don't like them, you don't go to them. Seems simple enough to me.
But what would life be if we had nothing to kvetch about?
I don't hate train shows and there are bargains to be had but,they are not the answer since the dealers take your money and you may not see them again till next year or maybe until the next closest show. I don't like the price gouging tactics some dealers are using to include the latest "New Old Stock" cry.
When a city the size of Toledo has no model train shops something major happen. At one time Toledo had two good shops now gone.I know of 5 good shops that closed since 2000. One shop lasted around 5 or 6 years before being force to closed..I spent more then my fair share of money there because it was a great shop with a 10% discount at checkout.Saturday was his busiest day. None of those shops was closed due to sickness or the owner retiring.They went belly up.
I see the hand writing on the wall for train shows some has already became a fallen flag. Look at the number of old dealers versus the younger dealers. Not a pretty picture. One of the reasons its a gamble..You enter the show already in the hole from table rent hotel/motel rent gas and food.Until you cover those expenses you're not making money and if you have a bad day or low attendance then you may break even or lose money.
It doesn't matter if the glass is full, half full or near empty the computer age has changed everything.Even big box discount stores sells on line and some times at a cheaper price then the local store with free delivery to that store.
You can even order your weekly groceries on line and then just go and pick them up.In/out less then five minutes.
I stop looking through rose color glasses and pretending the Lone Ranger and Tonto will ride in and save the day..I seen the harsh reality of the computer age.
The hobby and hobbyist in general has change..We as a lot want the best detail cars and locomotives they can make then we find the cheapest prices.
How do we find those prices? At a LHS? Nope..At a Train Show? Nope not there either.. Ah,there they are on www.com
How I miss going to a quality hobby shop on Saturday mornings.A drive in the cool of the mornings with a stop for breakfast at a small mom and pop restaurant where the coffee was fresh and the food delicious and maybe some railfaning on the way-life was good..