Ah BS........it's just the same old "doom and gloomers" still trying to put the psycological beatdown on people. If it bleeds, it reads.......
Rich
So um... all the kids I saw at the New Eagle train show in January with tons of model train stuff in their hands are a sign of a dying hobby? What about all the youtube and facebook model railroaders my age (24) and younger? It's not dying, the type of modeling and the expectations are changing is all.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
richhotrainTried to view the article on my wife's computer, no luck. So, then I tried my "new" laptop, and that worked. Go figure.
Rich,
Try dumping your cookies on the PCs which do not work. Some of these greedy sites will set a cookie and after you visit a couple of times will block you.
That may be why the new PC worked....................
Jim
No problems seeing the article on my iPad.
The demise of the hobby has been going on since the 60's. Here it is 2016 and the hobby is better then ever. Advances in the hobby by manufacturers is outstanding, like better detail, sound, smoke, control, you name it.
We are in a golden era of model trains IMO. I'm having more fun now with the new technology then ever before before.
Let the doom Sayers have their say but for me I'm still going to have fun. Think I'll go play with my train set now!
This sort of headline and article was also very common around 1960-62 when slot cars suddenly became "the" popular Christmas gift for boys. It was the slot car outfits themselves that repeated that mantra -- to their self-serving benefit, but it got the headlines. As Linn Westcott pointed out at the time, the real pernicious effect of this sort of article is when a model railroad manufacturer or hobby shop (new or existing) needs financing, goes to the banker, who has just finished reading that the hobby is dying etc etc in the newspaper he relies on to help make business decisions, or a hobby shop distributor who knows little about the hobbies themselves, just what sells, decides to cut back on trains because the newspaper or "somebody" says nobody is buying them. Westcott was deeply concerned and later admitted that he thought the hobby as he knew it and MR itself had about 15 more years to go.
The train shows I go to all have big crowds and lots of kids, including a fair sprinkling of teenagers. It is not all gray haired guys with beer bellies [as he looks into the mirror]. I'd also say that the railfan (non-model railroad) events I attend seem popular and have a good mix of ages. But the statistics on average age of modeler are real and sobering, although one might wonder if they are gleaned from things like magazine subscriptions and organizational memberships which are not compatible with how many people now live their lives it seems.
It may well be that there are more barriers to easy entry into the hobby today. But that may be just yet another assumption based on the easy methods of entry that I remember and used (that is, fairly inexpensive starter Lionel and HO sets, plenty of hobby shops, lots of news-stands and Model Railroader and RMC at every news-stand) being sharply reduced.
Maybe I am an optimist, but if the hobby is dying it is dying in a darn peculiar and energetic way. None of my parents, grandparents, or cats died like this.
Dave Nelson
floridaflyer Although I'm not a suscriber to the "sky is falling" regarding the future of the hobby, If the NMRA is to be believed and the average age of folks in the hobby has risen from 39 in the '70's to 64 today, that is not a positive trend.
Although I'm not a suscriber to the "sky is falling" regarding the future of the hobby, If the NMRA is to be believed and the average age of folks in the hobby has risen from 39 in the '70's to 64 today, that is not a positive trend.
The NMRA may be correct on those they asked but,how about the thousands they didn't ask? I see young folk at every train show I go to and we old folk must remember the ways of buying things is changing thanks cell phones and internet hobby shops.
Years ago the majority of us looked forward to Saturday's trip to the hobby shop and the comradeship. Today we have forums that replaced those gatherings and on line shops that replaced the LHS.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Mark B Remove the phrase"model trains or train sets" and insert "newspapers and print media"
Remove the phrase"model trains or train sets" and insert "newspapers and print media"
TOUCHE!!!
Soo Line fan richhotrain Tried to view the article on my wife's computer, no luck. So, then I tried my "new" laptop, and that worked. Go figure. Rich, Try dumping your cookies on the PCs which do not work. Some of these greedy sites will set a cookie and after you visit a couple of times will block you. That may be why the new PC worked....................
richhotrain Tried to view the article on my wife's computer, no luck. So, then I tried my "new" laptop, and that worked. Go figure.
Alton Junction
Sir Madog richhotrain Guys, the hobby is dying, and it gains momentum in its downward spiral as each one of us passes on to that model railroad in the sky.
richhotrain Guys, the hobby is dying, and it gains momentum in its downward spiral as each one of us passes on to that model railroad in the sky.
Can't speak for Europe, Ulrich, but in the States, it is an old man's hobby. Aside from those who are members of train clubs, most of us ask simply need to ask, how many people do we know who claim model railroading as a hobby, and how many of them are under age 55? I have lots of relatives, lots of friends, and lots more acquaintances. Me and my one brother-in-law are the only ones who are into model railroading.
On a related note, train simulator software is more popular with young people than with older. A lot of them simply do not have the space or money for a model railroad.
FYI: WSJ gives you a few freebie articles if you're not a subscriber. If you can't read it, it means you've read some WSJ articles since the last time you deleted your cookies. Its not foolproof, but it generally works.
On one hand, it feels like saying that is an end-around on their lockout, but on the other hand WSJ knows that system is in place or else they'd just lock everything out permanently.
If your browser has an incognito mode, that works too.
richhotrainhow many people do we know who claim model railroading as a hobby, and how many of them are under age 55
Lots, here in Silicon Valley.
This recurrent "The sky is falling, it hit me on the head" thread reminds of the lyrics of the Warren Zevon song "Desperados Under the Eaves"
And if California slides into the oceanLike the mystics and statistics say it willI predict this motel will be standing until I pay my bill
Similarly, I confidently predict that the hobby will still exist after every poster on this thread has gone to the great roundhouse in the sky -- many decades from now.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
richhotrainCan't speak for Europe, Ulrich, but in the States, it is an old man's hobby.
Rich, same here, but it´s gradually changing. Younger folks are less and less into cars, using public transport to meet their mobility needs. At train shows - be it model or the real thing, you see an increasingly growing number of young folks attending. What´s missing is the industry grabbing hold of that opportunity by offering affordable quality stuff instead of cheapish toy trains or highly sophisticated but overpriced techie stuff! I don´t know many 10 year old owning a DCC + sound equipped $ 800 steamer! Mind you, the price level "over here" is even higher than at your end of the Big Pond!
I take great exception when people say that all kids do is play with their phones and video games. I spend hours every week at our local sports facility where there are 3 sheets of ice and full olympic diving and race pool facilities. It also has fully staffed medical facilities, doctors/ physio therapist etc. Once my kid is done with his own game/practice, he is volunteering with other groups in various sports for hours. We had a small group of refugees come into the arena and it was interesting to watch them step out on the ice and bend over and touch the ice surface. We pulled some skates and helmets and the kids lent them their hockey sticks. They have been back every Saturday since that day.
The kids at that sporting facility are in shape, well toned examples of what kids should be.
My daughter is going to sleep all day today probably, however Monday through Friday she was at school from 0730 to 1600. She also had her horse riding and fencing lessons and found time to practice her piano, clarinet and cello. This week I heard the radial arm saw going in the workshop. I went out to find her cutting up cedar planks in to 44 six inch pieces for her art teacher. She volunteered to do herself when the teacher asked if anyones Dad had a saw. She is 14 years old and beside's being a great painter of HO people, she is more than capable of using my shop tools safely.
So in the words of Col Sherman Potter "HORSE HOCKEY" if you think all kids just twiddle their thumbs on electronic gadgets. Maybe the ones that do, just spend to much time with other people that do, and don't know what life has to offer. Kind of like all the great off the radar hobbies that life has to offer.
End of rant.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Just a reminder...keep it civil here.
As for the article itself, it is poorly researched thus making it dubious at best.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
It used to be some rags like the WSJ had standards, but it looks like you can publish any drivel now and pass it off as jountalism - no matter the content.
blownout cylinder As for the article itself, it is poorly researched thus making it dubious at best.
Thats the problem with the article. it gives a false and miopic view that can be rebutted and some of the skewed information can be explained. To me, there is "fact" that the products being offered speak to a hobby that has money being spent on it. ExactRail just started about 8 or so years ago and look at all the excellent product they have made and continue to make AND they started at the beginning of the great recession. Intermountain keeps cranking out excellent models and have added engines to their line up. Moloco has started producing top notch freight cars. Tangent has been really adding lots of stuff to there line - more than ever. Atlas has been picking back up after a few down years. Athearn Genesis, lots of nice engines and rolling stock. Wakey wakey!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Jim,Then we have Scale Trains and Rapido Trains that are basically new companies.
One thing I notice at train shows..Those younger modelers is buying those highly detailed cars and locomotives even if its one or two cars or one DCC/Sound locomotive.
Howard Zane (Note I was able to get un blocked access to the WSJ article from link on the Structures site and the Brass site) a very accomplished Model Railroader, promoter of the Hobby, and also has several Model raillroad related businesses. He is pessimistic about the future of the Hobby. As others in this thread has said the Hobby has changed. He has seen a decline of young people entering the Hobby and so believe the Hobby is dying.
I believe he is wrong to be pessimistic. People are living longer and have many other interests in their youth, but are discovering and entering the Hobby latter in life.
Book http://www.zanestrains.com/index.htm
"Howard shares humorous tales chronicling his life as a model railroader, hobby shop owner, a purveyor and expert appraiser of brass trains, and his 25 years as co-producer of "The Great Scale Model Train Show", the largest show of its kind in the country."
Structure models http://www.zanestructures.com/
Out of production brass models http://zaneshouseofbrass.com/
Baltimore Sun article http://www.baltimoresun.com/explore/howard/news/community/ph-ho-go-train-show-0202-20120130-story.html
There are several vidieos of his layout and an interview on Youtube
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
floridaflyerIf the NMRA is to be believed and the average age of folks in the hobby has risen from 39 in the '70's to 64 today, that is not a positive trend.
So? Millions upon millions of Baby Boomers are turning 60 every day. Nothing wrong with gray-haired rookies in the hobby, and with decent nutrition and reliable blood pressure medication and whatnot these days no reason to expect them (us) to be dropping out any time soon. Seventy is the new fifty. Now, pass the soggy corn flakes . . .
LINK to SNSR Blog
Hey, relax everyone. The hobby dies with me, and I expect to live at least another 30 years.
Seriously, as long as there is a rail industry and kids play near the tracks, there'll be a fascination with trains. As long as steam excursions take place, there'll be an interest in steam trains. If we go to underground tubes, it might change, but right now the rails are king.
A few thoughts:
The hobby is not dieing - BUT it is changing in a number of dramatic ways.......
We know from conversations on this forum that only a small percentage of those who consider themselves "Model Railroaders" belong to the NMRA - so much for the relevance of any stats from them - yes NMRA membership is aging faster than younger people are joining that organization. I belong to and support the NMRA, but they are not without their problems which clearly limits their membership.....
Regarding the "changes" in the hobby - the "subsets" of modeling approaches and styles have increased in number - seperating various groups by wider gaps in interests/skills/spending power, and most importantly, social or group activity.
At its core this is a hobby that can be "practiced" with little interaction with others - and as interests and approaches become more diverse, and person to person interaction (like clubs and hobby shops) become less and less, it becomes even harder to know who is doing how much of what - a real problem for those trying to gauge market potential for new products.
The new technology is a double edged sword - it has attracted new people, it has added to that diversity which has subdivided the hobby.......it has brought others back to the hobby, it overwhelmed others right out of the hobby.
Where the hobby will go from here? I suspect it will carry on with no matter what anyone says......
Sheldon
I am now 76 and have been hearing about the demise of the hobby since I was 16. The hobby has changed dramaically in my lifetime and generally for the better. DCC was, in my opinion, the biggest innovation of all and dramtically increased the fun factor and simplified the wiring chores. And quality has also improved over time. Very few of us have the time to spend building kits any more so the RTR stock is a godsend. Brass engines used to be the only way to get really good looking steam engines and most of them didn't run very well. And the collectors out there drove prices up into the statosphere. Well, the bubble burst and most brass collectors have inventory they can't get rid of except at a loss..but the rest of us can buy steam engines that look pretty good and run even better.
Nuff said. Young people still crowd the shows and beg their Dads for a "setup". Yeah, they discover girls and go away for a while but they come back.
Have fun guys. Don't worry about this hobby.
redvdub1
I can see the day when virtual model railroads replace 3-D ones. Graphics continue to improve dramatically. I think the day will come when photo realistic models combined with hi-def computer screens will make it possible to build a railroad in memory and operate it just like we do with our 3-D model railroads. Selective comphresion would be a thing of the past. We could build model railroads with prototype distances between towns. It would almost certainly be cheaper and faster to build a model railroad that way. The question will be whether tech saavy kids will actually be interested in that or will their attention be turned toward the next new thing.
I wouldn't think so. Complex flight sim software didn't kill scale models or RC planes. What it did do, was start an entirely new hobby that didn't exist 20 years ago.
I have been reading all of your responses and I can't agree more. I couldn't read the entire article, but I gather that the article lacked research.
Ironically, I attended a train show today in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The show was fairly packed and was full of families and some teenagers. I did see a few clubs have layouts setups of all scales. There were quite a few members who were my age (30) or younger. I was asked if I wanted to join a club even though I live over an hour away from the club, it sounded like a good idea. The club has 6 active members in their 20s and 30s and they were always looking for members of all ages and genders.
I was humbled to see a few teenagers buy some models at the tables.
Will
tstage Ho, boy! Yet another "The hobby is dying" thread. This ought to get some mileage...and waaaaay too much of it. I'll amuse myself by ignoring it from this point on and predict that it will garner a min. of 90-100 responses by Monday morning. Start the clock...tick, tick, tick, tick, tick... Tom
Ho, boy! Yet another "The hobby is dying" thread. This ought to get some mileage...and waaaaay too much of it. I'll amuse myself by ignoring it from this point on and predict that it will garner a min. of 90-100 responses by Monday morning.
Start the clock...tick, tick, tick, tick, tick...
Tom
Yep.... Here is my reply to add towards that 90.
Is the hobby dying? Only if you don't count all the kids at shows, and only if you refuse to acknowledge those coming into the hobby every year.
Thomas is still very popular, as is now Chuggington... Kids are still being brought into the hobby. It just takes them a while to afford it now.
These are only the thoughts of a close to 30 year old, who has a friend in the hobby who just turned 45, two others in their 60's, and, one friend whose now 7 year old is extremely into trains, both real, toy, and model. And, these all live in a rural area, where the only show close by is twice a year, in Erie Pa, and is still attended by lots of people. Even more travel to Kirkland and Berea Ohio shows, myself included in this, ones in Buffalo and Rochester NY, and clear down to Pittsburgh Pa. All from the same rural area I am in.
Hobby shops? Well, Erie is down to one actual Train store, a couple of general hobby shops, next closest is in Jamestown NY, over the state line to Ohio, or Buffalo NY area. This is different from when I became a model railroader, but, online stores have boomed in that time frame. So, while I have far less stores to choose from that are actually located nearby, I have access to a much bigger selection.
So, is the hobby dying? Not IMHO it isn't. (WSJ, yes, this "techie" can use the lingo, the acronyms and all the texting lingo. He is also a model railroader who enjoys "playing with his train set" as you so not-so-subtly put it. So, you are wrong here.)
And, just so some don't feel bad, I couldn't read the article either, even after clearing cookies... Oh well. Don't think I missed much.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
blownout cylinder Just a reminder...keep it civil here. As for the article itself, it is poorly researched thus making it dubious at best.
What an extraordinarily civil way of stating that the article has the essential quality most often associated with piles on the ground in cattle feed lots.
Andre
Redvdub1 I am now 76 and have been hearing about the demise of the hobby since I was 16.
I am now 76 and have been hearing about the demise of the hobby since I was 16.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL A few thoughts: The hobby is not dying - BUT it is changing in a number of dramatic ways....... Where the hobby will go from here? I suspect it will carry on with no matter what anyone says...... Sheldon
The hobby is not dying - BUT it is changing in a number of dramatic ways.......
Ditto.I'm almost 21 and honestly, I know of no-one around my age range even remotely interested in my hobby.
Modelling HO Scale with a focus on the West and Midwest USA