alexstan Mark B Remove the phrase"model trains or train sets" and insert "newspapers and print media" Ditto.I'm almost 21 and honestly, I know of no-one around my age range even remotely interested in my hobby.
Mark B Remove the phrase"model trains or train sets" and insert "newspapers and print media"
Remove the phrase"model trains or train sets" and insert "newspapers and print media"
Ditto.I'm almost 21 and honestly, I know of no-one around my age range even remotely interested in my hobby.
Ah but this is important. Since most modelers seem to be in the closet, its hard to find other modelers.
Case in point, I've been modeling since I was 5, now 42. I have a couple customers that are also modelers (one actual railroader) but didn't know it for years. None of us ever really mentioned it.
The lack of LHS kind of limits our chances of meeting other modelers. We are still out there but don't have a convient place to meet frequently. Sure there's clubs that meet monthly but you have to find them. And yes the annual train show. And even here on the net but for some reason its hard to meet fellow posters.
There are lots more modelers than you are aware of. But you have to put yourself out there to find them.
Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction
tstage Ho, boy! Yet another "The hobby is dying" thread. This ought to get some mileage...and waaaaay too much of it. I'll amuse myself by ignoring it from this point on and predict that it will garner a min. of 90-100 responses by Monday morning. Start the clock...tick, tick, tick, tick, tick... Tom
Ho, boy! Yet another "The hobby is dying" thread. This ought to get some mileage...and waaaaay too much of it. I'll amuse myself by ignoring it from this point on and predict that it will garner a min. of 90-100 responses by Monday morning.
Start the clock...tick, tick, tick, tick, tick...
Tom
tstage I'll amuse myself by ignoring it from this point on and predict that it will garner a min. of 90-100 responses by Monday morning. Start the clock...tick, tick, tick, tick, tick... Tom Well, we're more than halfway there!
I'll amuse myself by ignoring it from this point on and predict that it will garner a min. of 90-100 responses by Monday morning.
Well, we're more than halfway there!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
ATLANTIC CENTRAL A few thoughts: The hobby is not dying - BUT it is changing in a number of dramatic ways....... Where the hobby will go from here? I suspect it will carry on with no matter what anyone says...... Sheldon
A few thoughts:
The hobby is not dying - BUT it is changing in a number of dramatic ways.......
Where the hobby will go from here? I suspect it will carry on with no matter what anyone says......
Sheldon
The "quote" feature in here never has worked for me, while using Fire Fox. It has worked occassionaly when I use IE.
I could care less about the OP's article, I just wanted to know more about Howard Zane, of which the internet has provided me with a wealth of info, including the WSJ article, through Howard's web site.
This whole thing reminds me of the slot car explosion in the 60's. Seemed like groups popped up all over the place with club style race track operations. People started scratch building and bashing cars for racing. All of this, including model railroading, was BEFORE todays mentality and attraction of all of the social media availiable now, such as this forum, and many others. Yes, I'm a "lone wolf" modeler, and I talk to a lot of other LW modelers, exchanging ideas. I got into this hobby because it's what I like, and if you are into it, and it's also your hobby, then great!
What I consider as my LHS is 26 miles away, Hiawatha in Pewaukee (Waukesha), and I see a variety of people in there, of all ages. And the stock that the store carries is proof of how much business they do, enormous!
Now I'll go back to checking out Howard Zane's work, and let this thread be.
Mike.
My You Tube
Well, I put in my $.02 on this as a 28 year old. I personally know 3 or 4 people in the 30-60 age group who are model railroaders, who are not in a train club! How did I meet those people? I brought this years NMRA calendar to work and hung it on my locker/toolbox. Excellent conversation starter. Brick and mortar hobby shops may be on the decline due to the internet, the ones that are thriving do both in store and internet sales to keep product moving. The number of train layouts that exist out there is staggering. The prices do keep going up, and yes it does take a while longer to be able to afford some of the niceties. The hobby is far from dead, you just have to know where to look. A guy my girlfriend went to high school has a 5 year old that can hand lay track better than I can... To say that kids aren't interested in trains anymore is a little off the mark. Think about how you got interested in trains? For me, it was watching a video of N&W 1218 run south from Cincinnati, Oh to somewhere in TN over and over at a young age (kind of like brainwashing I guess). My parents figured out quickly that I was transfixed by trains running down the track so a spent many a day watching train videos while my mother was cleaning the house, etc.
Let me just say that this topic about the WSJ posted here was like tossing a huge piece of raw meat into a tank full of sharks. Controvesrial? You bet. Misinformation. Absolutely.
Honestly, we have beat this "hobby is dying" subject to a complete pulp. It's a dead horse long gone. Please - let it die!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
BMMECNYCThink about how you got interested in trains
Russell
I really don't think the hobby is anywhere close to dying, but I do think to keep it healthy some adjustments will need to be made. First IMHO it's taking too long to get products to market, a year from annoucement to expected delivery is a long time ( and in most cases it's delayed beyond that ), and some LHS require a down payment when placing a order, then even if it does make it on time, if there is a quality issue sometimes it can take up to weeks to resolve if sent back to the manufacturer for repair. For me this is just the way it is, but my kids live in a world of almost instant gratification. If they go looking for something and the store or mall does not have it, they whip out the I Phone, go to Amazon place their order and expect it to be delivered in a day or two, if not they look for something else. I ordered an Atlas n scale Mopac gp38-2 that was supposed to be here at the end of last year and was told at the end of January it would now be May before I could expect it without any explanation as to why by Atlas or the supplier other than they received a partial order. I am willing reluctantly to live with that, but will the young people of today be willing to? I do think Scale Trains is moving in an excellent direction with their Operator or Rivet Counter options.
Thanks, Ralph
maxman
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain maxman max, is that Tyco? Rich
max, is that Tyco?
Sorry, but I'm either too young or too old to understand the reference. So far as I know it is just some poor random animal that got beaten to death after horsing around with threads such as this one.
The hobby dying meme has been beat up quite well in this thread. Anyone who does think it's dying has never been on Facebook. There are just so many Model Train groups that I stopped joing them after 8 or so. They are full of young modelers who put up images of their models, so most are active too. YouTube is also full of videos of models and real trains.
The real point is there are huge centers of activity that are off the map for many of us. Kalmbach does not seem to have a facebook presence although many product manufacturers do.(Received a note on this an Kalmbach may not be on Facebook but MR and Trains certainly are. Hmmmm who's the slow one here now?) Then the entier Shapeways universe is distant from the traditional media. Just go there and search on your scale. There is more there than you would believe.
http://www.shapeways.com/
richhotrain maxman
LION WAS HERE!
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
What I thought was hilarious was the need for a drawing with the title.....'model train'.
maxman richhotrain maxman max, is that Tyco? Rich Sorry, but I'm either too young or too old to understand the reference. So far as I know it is just some poor random animal that got beaten to death after horsing around with threads such as this one.
Being someone young and in the hobby, I get why/how many who do MR are retired or nearing that point. Yes, it's tiring to spend time at night working on trains or trying to carve out time on the weekends. Of course there's been days, weeks, and even months where I was betweeen jobs and didn't touch the layout. WHO else was bitten by that bug? I always return with renewed gusto.
The goal is to get my trains fully running so anyone can enjoy it. Enjoyment comes from asking help and making people feel appreciated for supporting me and not paying attention to such garbage.
Metro Red LineWhat bothered me about the article was that although it's true the average age of model railroaders is past retirement age, it seemed to give the impression that ALL model railroaders are only interested in re-creating the 1950s. Of COURSE young people can't connect with this, it's so foreign to them. As a modern-era modeler, younger people might be more responsive to the contemporary freight, passenger and commuter trains that exist today, which railfans see all the time. Yes, I know that most modelers live the Transition Era, but I've always loved the challenge of "modeling what I see," even when it means my favorite railroad growing up got bought by another railroad, and I have to model that one. Surely a family that took an Amtrak trip might have a kid who wants an Amtrak train.Yes, all you old-timers will think that's so boring, but remember, today's trains are the "trains I grew up with" for another generation.
HObbyguy No problem for me reading the article or watching the video. I hear the same thing about other hobbies that I pursue. I also restore classic Pontiac musclecars. Go to a classic car show and you will find most owners are in their late 50's and up, and they are saying the same thing. "Nobody works on their own cars anymore and develops the skills needed, etc." No doubt part of it is the expense- hobbies are expensive and financing a real model railroad with the space it requires isn't in the cards for most younger folks. Same for classic cars. And part of it is just the changing times. Young people don't relate the world the same way we do, and don't have the same feeling of nostalgia for days gone by. But I like to think that there will always be "builders" who will want to create and operate something. It may take on a different form, but that's OK.
No problem for me reading the article or watching the video.
I hear the same thing about other hobbies that I pursue. I also restore classic Pontiac musclecars. Go to a classic car show and you will find most owners are in their late 50's and up, and they are saying the same thing. "Nobody works on their own cars anymore and develops the skills needed, etc."
No doubt part of it is the expense- hobbies are expensive and financing a real model railroad with the space it requires isn't in the cards for most younger folks. Same for classic cars.
And part of it is just the changing times. Young people don't relate the world the same way we do, and don't have the same feeling of nostalgia for days gone by.
But I like to think that there will always be "builders" who will want to create and operate something. It may take on a different form, but that's OK.
You've hit on it. It isn't just model railroading, it's ALL hobbies. Times have changed greatly. When I was growing up, my Mom didn't have to work, she stayed at home with me and my sister. And my Dad didn't work in some super high paying job - he was a welder. But we had a house, a car, color TV, a pool, and many hobbies - camping, fishing, shooting, cb radio, and model trains. None of them particularly cheap hobbies. Now it's different. Granted I have my house with pool and nice car all on just my own salary, but I make 10x what my Dad did back then, and my hobbies are pretty much limited to my trains. There are other sthings I used to do that I would like to do again, but then I have to balance it out and either get into another expensive hobby and drop trains, or stick with the trains and forego the others. Mostly I stick with trains, it's the one thing I've always come back to when I've abandoned it in the past. I can't imagine doing all the things I did as a kid on just what I make.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Absolutely.. I have even read on forums where modelers say "Today's railroads isn't interesting". I call that the battle cry of the unlearned.
I started railfaning when I was seven and seen new GP9s and RS11 and in the 60s I saw GP30s,SD45s and U25Bs then years later seen new SD40-2s and later new SD70MACs. Every new model of locomotive was exciting.
Even today watching a GP38-2 switch cars is just as exciting as watching a PRR 0-6-0 switch back in the 50s.
I get excited when a trio of D9-44CWs vibrate the ground when starting a heavy tonnage freight train.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
It seems to me that a common theme on these boards is "I played with trains as a kid, discovered girls, put the trainset away. Thirty to forty years later the kids have finally left home, I have some space and a little disposable income. I'm back." The next common theme is that "I remember a train coming past my house / end of my street / blah blah and I'd like to model that train"
Now as more and more people survive to get old that rather means that there is a potentially growing market of old farts with cash to spend. Walthers couldn't care less whether the guy at the other end of the internet is 14 or 64 as long as he wants to buy their latest kit. So as long as new entrants of whatever age outnumber the die off the hobby is safe.
Now given the "recapture trains of my youth" is a recurring meme and the current generation of new elderly entrants were probably kids in the Seventies and Eighties those trains might be the growth area.
I'm in my early teens, so there are some young people in the hobby. My problem is that new stuff is just so darn expensive! I haven't purchased anything new for a while now, expect for a limited run locomotive. That is why I resort to old mantua and red box Tyco, as well as older bb athearns, all dc. I can't afford to pay 20-30 on one freight car, especially since I don't really have an income yet. Just my 3 cents :D
-Peter. Mantua collector, 3D printing enthusiast, Korail modeler.
Da Stumer I'm in my early teens, so there are some young people in the hobby. My problem is that new stuff is just so darn expensive! I haven't purchased anything new for a while now, expect for a limited run locomotive. That is why I resort to old mantua and red box Tyco, as well as older bb athearns, all dc. I can't afford to pay 20-30 on one freight car, especially since I don't really have an income yet. Just my 3 cents :D
And twenty years ago when I was in my early teens, coming up with the $10 for one of those BBs was a Herculean task too.
I remember that I'd lusted for a Bachman Niagara that (I think) was $60. An insurmountable sum of money!
azrailDCC is still confusing to the newbie, and it is still a confusing, unreliable system
What´s confusing about feeding two wires to the track and selecting a loco address? Your mobile phone is much more complicated to operate. DCC is around for over 20 years now and it is very reliable. DCC (w/o sound) adds only very little to the cost of an engine and a good quality entry level DCC system does not cost much more than a good quality DC power pack these days.
I don´t think that´s the reason why supposedly there seems to be no next generation model railroaders. IMHO, we have only a view from a very narrow perspective as "serious MRR´s" to the hobby. I bet there are quite a few people (adults and kids) out there, who have a layout of some sort and enjoy it, but see it as a toy to have fun with rather than a lifestyle, as we tend to see it.
azrailNo reasonably priced, quality trains/ train sets... Electronic gadgetry has gone up in performance and down in price, yet model train prices keep going up.
Have you seen the models the younger modelers are buying at train shows? They're not buying BB or Bachmann they are buying the DCC/Sound locomotives and state of the art freight cars.
My oldest grandson won't even consider buying BB or Bachmann.He's 100% Atlas,Walthers P2K,Genesis and Kato. He uses DCC and locks out the DC function in the decoder.
azrailI see several problems which may be damaging the hobby.... No reasonably priced, quality trains/ train sets... Electronic gadgetry has gone up in performance and down in price, yet model train prices keep going up. DCC is still confusing to the newbie, and it is still a confusing, unreliable system- even when you read the books on it. If you want to go after the youth market, we need to be pushing towards radio control-free of wires and depending on two strips of poorly conductive metal. The situation of depending on almost all of our model trains on a handful of factories run by a consortium in a country that is challenging our military power, steals our secrets, and abuses its citizens. There are other places in the world we can make model trains.
Ulrich and Larry took a short excerpt from azrail's reply and challenged it. Fair enough.
But azrail makes several valid points. Prices are unreasonably high, a source of discouragement for many would be modelers. DCC is very confusing for newbies. Heck, it can still be confusing for more advanced modelers. I love DCC, but it isn't easy to work with by any means. And, we would all be better off if we returned to Made in the USA.
BRAKIE Have you seen the models the younger modelers are buying at train shows? They're not buying BB or Bachmann they are buying the DCC/Sound locomotives and state of the art freight cars.
I don't attend train shows, so I cannot challenge that statement, Larry. But, a state of the art freight car? What the heck is that? And, you buy it at a train show? Tell me more.
Everyone keeps harping un "unreasonable prices" Really? 20 years ago, a DCC motor only decoder that could maybe operate 2 lights and buzzed horribly when it ran was $50 or more. For little more today, you get a SOUND decoder that can run 6 functions and has baby bottom smooth motor drive. You can;t even really get the buzzy kind of decoder any more, but a plain motor decoder with 2 functions is $15 or less.
There's this fallacy that because cell phones use radio, if we make all our trains radio, it will cost less because they can use the same parts. No, they don't use the same parts. At least not the most costly parts. One of the most costly parts of any sort of radio system that the manufacture must recoup is the cost of FCC certification in the US, and whatever agency governs radio communications in any other country they want to sell their stuff in. It doesn't work where the radio chip is certified in a phone so you can build it into your own device and it's automatically good, nope.
Some things have come down due to bulk use in consumer electronics - that's why decoders ARE cheaper these days. The little microcontrollers that are the heart of them are only a few dollars in single quantities, instead of $20-$30 like they used to be. That's why even the simplest toys and gadgets have some sort of microcontroller in them, it's cheaper to use a micro to make some LEDs flash than it is to build a traditional LED flashing circuit.
Other prices have gone up because labor costs continue to rise, and also the detail level has gone way up. No one really sells any locos at the BB level of detail any more, so there is nothing to directly compare price levels against. ANd kits have gone away for 2 reasons. People weren't buying them (and don't just reply "But I like to build kits" So do I, but OBVIOUSLY we are the minority in the hobby today), plus if a manufacturer can pay say $5 per $10 kit to have it assembled in CHina and then sell it for $30 (vs the $10 kit price) PLUS no longer have to deal with supporting people who can't figure out how to assemble it, or supplying a spare sprue of grab irons because the customer lost it or broke them in assembly, you'd have to be a pretty poor businessman to not jump on that. If a company is going to stay afloat and produce more of the highly detailed models (which take extra research) people are demanding, then they need to have a large enough profit margin to support the research and development of the new tooling. Too many modelers today want more than a basic generic BB boxcar, they want road specific details. And with the time factor, they don;t have the time to add those details themselves, they want the product to come with all that stuff taken care of. Obviously that is not EVERYONE in the model railroad hobby, but if it weren't a large enough money-spending portion of it then none of this would happen. If the people don't want to pay the price for your detailed RTR model and only want kits, you aren't going to stay in business making the expensive RTR models, but clearly the market has spoken and it's the low cost kit buyers who are the minority. No one says you have to like it, but it is what it is.