No worry about hijacking the thread. This is an interesting turn of events to suggest the possibility of a slate roof. Hard to say from the photos, but here is a zoomed in look at the roof and at the siding. But, I am still thinking asphalt shingles. Michael and I talked early on about modeling the snow guards but decided against it because the snow guards would be barely visible anyhow.
Rich
Alton Junction
Hey Mike:
I'm inclined to agree with you about the snow birds.
Can you post the links to the other pictures you found? As an ex roofing salesperson I'm really curious to see what was done with the roof over time. If they ended up with that many snow birds they must have been suffering some serious problems.
Again, Rich -sorry for going
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Rich:
After looking at your very clear close-up of the roof, I'm going to suggest that the shingles are indeed slate.
Here is my reasoning:
First, the shingles are far too thick to be asphalt. There is clearly a lot of depth to them.
Second, where the snow birds have been inserted under the shingles, the shingles are not sagging around the snowbirds as I had originally thought. The bottoms of the shingles clearly are straight.
I think that if you can find some suitable slate shingle roofing you should go for it. The added texture will look great IMHO.
This has been a lot of fun!
Thanks
Photos of the Coors family mansion seem to be few and far between on the Internet. Michael acually shot his photos with a high quality digital camera and telephoto lens.
hon30critter Rich: After looking at your very clear close-up of the roof, I'm going to suggest that the shingles are indeed slate. Here is my reasoning: First, the shingles are far too thick to be asphalt. There is clearly a lot of depth to them.
Well, Google Maps, Golden CO. shows a great top view. Lots more angles and dormers on the side facing the factory. And when you Google Coors mansion, you see of ...um...very interesting pictures, but only a couple of this mansion. One of the pictures is from RR Picture Archives.
Rich just posted the best roof picture, and yes they do look like shingles, but the tabs are a lot longer than the regular 3 tab shingle. What ever they are made from, at least you know what type of pattern that needs to be created to look like this roof.
Mike.
My You Tube
I am getting ready to order the materials today. These are the asphalt shingles that we are considering.
http://www.hobbylinc.com/plastruct-asphalt-roofing-shingles-gray-model-railroad-scratch-supply-91636
I tried to zoom in even more on the photo provided to me by Michael. On my photo, which is clearer than the one posted here, it seems as if the material bends up against that roof vent rather than butting up to it, which suggests shingles. Plus, a lot of curled up edges. Also, there is a "pattern" that is apparent throughout the roof.
I think the shingles you posted look good, Rich. About as close as your going to get. I found these at MicroMark:
http://www.micromark.com/medium-gray-roof-shingle-paper-4-sheets-ho-scale,8398.html
Mike, the shingles from MicroMark look very good, and we did consider those for our project. Ultimately, we decided to go with the Plastruct product because a single sheet of shingles is perfectly sized so that we won't need to cut and fit multiple sheets together.
Right on, Rich. I hope you keep us posted on your progress!
mbinsewi Right on, Rich. I hope you keep us posted on your progress! Mike.
FYI, Rich, here's a link to Google Earth View, showing all of the dormers and roof lines.
ttps://www.google.com/maps/place/Golden,+CO/@39.7620127,-105.2128564,43m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x876b981287686cf7:0x14c64654208055dc!6m1!1e1
EDIT: Oops! didn't come out as a live link.
EDIT 2: It does work with copy & paste.
Ya when I took those photos last week. I couldn't get very close to the facilty because its private property. So I had to find a spot that was pretty far away from it. And I used my telephoto lens.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
mbinsewi FYI, Rich, here's a link to Google Earth View, showing all of the dormers and roof lines. ttps://www.google.com/maps/place/Golden,+CO/@39.7620127,-105.2128564,43m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x876b981287686cf7:0x14c64654208055dc!6m1!1e1 Mike. EDIT: Oops! didn't come out as a live link. EDIT 2: It does work with copy & paste.
Here is the clickable link to the overhead shot:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Golden,+CO/@39.7620127,-105.2128564,43m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x876b981287686cf7:0x14c64654208055dc!6m1!1e1
hon30critterIf they ended up with that many snow birds they must have been suffering some serious problems.
I'm not sure that public tours involve this building or not. There may certainly be marketing or other internals events. Some attorney may have gotten involved. Hard to say, but the decision to use so many may have been due to such concerns, rather than actual problems.
Another thing is that Golden gets snow, but is also low enough that it warms back up to melt it a lot of the time. Plus it may be a south-facing roof on that side? This could contribute to issues with ice, etc sliding off more on this visible side than elsewhere.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
The mock up looks good. It definetly conveys the impression of a stately home. The slightly steeper roof actually looks more mansion-like than the original.
If I can suggest, the chimney is a bit too large, but I'm sure you will work out those details as the building progresses.
richhotrain I tried to zoom in even more on the photo provided to me by Michael. On my photo, which is clearer than the one posted here, it seems as if the material bends up against that roof vent rather than butting up to it, which suggests shingles. Plus, a lot of curled up edges. Also, there is a "pattern" that is apparent throughout the roof. Rich
OK, just to hijack the thread once more, I'm pretty sure those are not asphalt shingles. They are slate. The tabs are too far out of alignment to be asphalt.
That explains a couple of things.
First, slate is slippery so snow slides of easily, hence the proliferation of snow birds.
Second, I'll bet they had a ton of problems with leakage. Slate is not suited to a 5/12 pitch. It is too easy for water to back up into the shingles and run into the house. I suspect the number of snow birds was an attempt to stop the leakage, which, by the way, they wouldn't do. In fact they would make things worse.
Again! Slap my hand!
Rich - you are right. Nobody will know the difference if you use asphalt shingles.
A properly done slate roof is quite heavy being three or four slates thick all the way up to the ridge.
Its one of the few scratch built model roofs you really have to do it properly where individual 2'X1' slates are individualy laid and well beaten tooth paste tube used for the flashing for it to look right all on a sub roof sheet.
Absalute PITA to do but for a foreground building well worth the effort when the paint shades are right for the area modeled.
regards John
The Coors grandson was kidnapped and murdered in 1960. I suspect that is why there are so few pictures of the house.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
JaBear, that is fair criticism since Michael posted the photo of the actual mansion. Of course, I started this thread to get advice on scratch building procedures, not critique on the actual model, but let me respond to your observations.
When Michael first brought up the discussion of the mansion and the possibilty of incorporating it into his layout and as part of the Coors brewery, it immediately became apparent that nothing like the mansion was available as a kit. And, even trying to kitbash available kits did not seem very satisfactory. So, either Michael should abandon the mansion idea or scratch build it.
I initially encouraged Michael to scratch build it, since he clearly has the talent to do so. But he declined, never having scratch built anything. I am still trying to recall whether I volunteered or Michael volunteered me. LOL. No matter, I have never scratch built anything either.
So, the challenge was to come up with something scratch built that at least suggests a mansion, if not the mansion. Selective compression became paramount based upon space considerations. Symmetry became important because it is easier for a novice scratch builder to work with fewer walls and roofs than more walls and roofs. The actual mansion is clearly not symmetrical, but the scratch build will be.
hon30critter Rich: The mock up looks good. It definetly conveys the impression of a stately home. The slightly steeper roof actually looks more mansion-like than the original. If I can suggest, the chimney is a bit too large, but I'm sure you will work out those details as the building progresses. Dave
As I mentioned when I posted photos of the mock up, it was definitely a crude attempt to simply capture the relative look of the prototype to get some basic dimensions and angles. That's why I skipped the skylight and the dormer. We are going to take other liberties as well, such as two chimneys rather than one, one skylight rather than two.
This scratch build is more about modeling a mansion than about modeling the mansion.
richhotrainThe actual mansion is clearly not symmetrical, but the scratch build will be.
richhotrain The actual mansion is clearly not symmetrical, but the scratch build will be. OK, fair enough, will still watch with interest.
richhotrain The actual mansion is clearly not symmetrical, but the scratch build will be.
I just hope....the games not called account of rain....
Have Fun!
Frankie
zstripe I just hope....the games not called account of rain....
hon30critterFirst, slate is slippery so snow slides of easily, hence the proliferation of snow birds. Second, I'll bet they had a ton of problems with leakage. Slate is not suited to a 5/12 pitch. It is too easy for water to back up into the shingles and run into the house. I suspect the number of snow birds was an attempt to stop the leakage, which, by the way, they wouldn't do. In fact they would make things worse.
Dave,
I think you're right that the roof slope is troublesome and the slipperiness of the slate makes sliding ice and snow an even bigger problem. Fortunately, a leaky roof doesn't matter much on a model
mlehman hon30critter First, slate is slippery so snow slides of easily, hence the proliferation of snow birds. Second, I'll bet they had a ton of problems with leakage. Slate is not suited to a 5/12 pitch. It is too easy for water to back up into the shingles and run into the house. I suspect the number of snow birds was an attempt to stop the leakage, which, by the way, they wouldn't do. In fact they would make things worse. Dave, I think you're right that the roof slope is troublesome and the slipperiness of the slate makes sliding ice and snow an even bigger problem. Fortunately, a leaky roof doesn't matter much on a model
hon30critter First, slate is slippery so snow slides of easily, hence the proliferation of snow birds. Second, I'll bet they had a ton of problems with leakage. Slate is not suited to a 5/12 pitch. It is too easy for water to back up into the shingles and run into the house. I suspect the number of snow birds was an attempt to stop the leakage, which, by the way, they wouldn't do. In fact they would make things worse.
richhotrain zstripe I just hope....the games not called account of rain.... Do you think that may be a possibility? Rich
Do you think that may be a possibility?
Rich,
Gee! I hope not....I want You to take the plunge and do it...even if it's wrong.....You'll learn along the way and You may even learn some New cuss' words in a new language even...I did...moon's ago. LOL.
I have great confidence in You!
Frank
Hi mlehman
I don't think the snow birds what ever you wish to call them have anything to do with leaky roofs I can't see how they would stop it.
I think they are actualy to keep the snow and ice on the roof there would be quite a few ton's up there on a very solidly constructed and suported roof.
Slate as you say is slippery and a snow sliding pitch on the roof I think they are for when the roof snow reaches,
One hit one kill levels for snow slabs coming off the roof.