Thinking about these windows for the mansion.
http://www.grandtline.com/products/images/5000's/ho%20windows/5234.jpg
Rich
Alton Junction
Rich:
I wish I could blow up the picture of the mansion more so the details would be clearer. However, from what I can see, the original windows do not have the peaked top detail. Of course, there is absolutely nothing that says you can't use them, and they will add some interesting architectural detail. If it were me I would stay with the square top windows and augment the tops with the layered lintels that the pictures seem to show. One advantage to the windows that you have chosen is that they are bigger than the ones I suggested so they would be better proportioned to the overall size of the structure. You could always cut the peaked part off and add lintels.
The important point is that it is your railroad, or at least Michael's railroad, so you can do what you want.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter Rich: I wish I could blow up the picture of the mansion more so the details would be clearer.
I wish I could blow up the picture of the mansion more so the details would be clearer.
And here I thought that you were going to build your own Bertram's.
If you're going to build in styrene, use only styrene unless some necessary component isn't available in that material. Bracing styrene with wood means different adhesives than the solvent cement which you'd use for styrene, and that would apply for pretty-well any combination of materials.
Plastruct siding (and most of their sheet materials, in my experience) is more expensive than similar stuff from Evergreen, and some of it isn't styrene, either.
You can use Evergreen strip styrene for the simple bracing required at corners - .125"x.125" is sufficient for that. For stiffening long walls, or supporting large roof areas and even for creating the large roof areas, a good and economical choice would be .060" sheet styrene. Buy a 4'x8' sheet of it - it can be rolled-up and taped into a tube small enough to transport in the front seat of your car. Use a carpenter's square and a utility knife when cutting it into the pieces required. As bracing, you can make one-piece floors and/or ceilings to stiffen long walls, and it can also be used as partitions to support large roof areas, as shown here:
As a sub-roof material, the thickness can represent the fascia, especially effective if you paint the edges the same colour as the rest of the trim:
I used Plastruct shingle sheets on this structure as it was the largest sheet roofing I could find. Since it's not styrene, I had to use contact cement to affix it to the styrene sub-roof:
More styrene bracing using .060" sheet material:
...random scraps used as alignment guides for a removeable roof:
....strips cut from the sheet to create the grid which supports the flat roof:
...and if a structure won't be seen from all sides, the plain sheet can form the inexpensive unseen walls which allow it to maintain its shape and support the roof:
Wayne
Doctorwayne has spoken - heed his advice!!! (because he is better at this than just about anybody else).
Ornamental detail is good! After all, you are modelling a mansion. The exact type of detail isn't as important as the fact that it is there. Its posh, if you will. It gives the right impression.
doctorwayne And here I thought that you were going to build your own Bertram's. Wayne
What say you scratch build it and then generously send me the original.
hon30critter Rich: Doctorwayne has spoken - heed his advice!!! (because he is better at this than just about anybody else).
Question: assuming that I "laminate" .020" styrene onto .040" styrene, should I use MEK, contact cement, or something else?
doctorwayneIf you're going to build in styrene, use only styrene unless some necessary component isn't available in that material. Bracing styrene with wood means different adhesives than the solvent cement which you'd use for styrene, and that would apply for pretty-well any combination of materials.
Wayne's advice is generally good. I don't disagree with it in general. I have had success using 3M 77 to bond sytrene and basswood. It stays flexible and since it covers the entire area to be bonded (it's a spray can) it doesn't generally cause the issues that using other sorts of adhesives with dissimilar materials generally cause.
There is another advantage. It allows you to cut your door and window openings in the sytrene, then you spray and apply it to the basswood core piece, then you cut through the wood using the window openings in the plastic as a guide. This is more a technique I use for masonry buildings, where a thicker wall is desired.
Others will say it's double work, but I've found it useful when I need to represent masonry and for general all around strength.
richhotrainQuestion: assuming that I "laminate" .020" styrene onto .040" styrene, should I use MEK, contact cement, or something else?
Contact works if you're sure you can align properly when bonding. MEK is good when things aren't so big that the MEK can't siphon underneath to the center. So it depends on exactly what you're doing. Keep in mind that like for a lot of scratchbuilding, the best technique can vary over the course of building a large structure. After a little practice with the materials, you'll find yourself assessing each joint thoughfully as it starts becoming more obvious what's best as you gain experience.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
richhotrain hon30critter Rich: I wish I could blow up the picture of the mansion more so the details would be clearer. Rich
You could start with any structure you want.
You just have to be willing to accept that if you make a mistake you are willing to spend more on the learning experience.
If you have building with $200 of materials and you make some fatal error (cut all the walls and install all the window and door castings, then find you made an error on how high the walls should be) you might have to back up a $100 or so and start over. If you start with a $10 building and mess it up on the last step, you've lost $10.
Your choice.
I would use either .020 or .040 clapboard and use styrene square strip pieces, or pieces of sheet styrene as bracing. I would do the roof from large sheets of styrene (plastic supply houses will sell a 2x4 or 4x8 sheet of .040 styrene, sign shops can also supply large sheet styrene).
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Wow Mel, that works good for enlarging. I totally forgot about that feature.
Mike.
My You Tube
richhotrain...Question: assuming that I "laminate" .020" styrene onto .040" styrene, should I use MEK, contact cement, or something else?
For years, I used lacquer thinner as a solvent-type cement for styrene and it worked extremely well: styrene-to-styrene bonds were easy to make and permanent. Even joining large surfaces (greater than 1'x1') was possible, as the lacquer thinner evapourated at a slow enough rate that both surfaces could be coated, using a 2"brush, and remain wet enough to create a strong bond. However, I am no longer able to buy that type of lacquer thinner, as government regulations have resulted in a change in the chemicals used: it still works well enough as a paint thinner, but no longer reacts sufficiently with styrene to create a good bond.MEK does react with styrene and does create a strong bond. However, it evapourates so rapidly that it's almost impossible to coat large surfaces and have both remain wet enough to create the bond. You could start a bond along one edge, then separate the unbonded area, slip a large brush between the two surfaces and make a pass, quickly removing the brush and pressing the wetted surfaces together. You'd need to continue in this manner until you had worked your way right across the area to be joined.
Here's a better closer up photo...
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
doctorwayne richhotrain ...Question: assuming that I "laminate" .020" styrene onto .040" styrene, should I use MEK, contact cement, or something else? For years, I used lacquer thinner as a solvent-type cement for styrene and it worked extremely well: styrene-to-styrene bonds were easy to make and permanent. Even joining large surfaces (greater than 1'x1') was possible, as the lacquer thinner evapourated at a slow enough rate that both surfaces could be coated, using a 2"brush, and remain wet enough to create a strong bond. However, I am no longer able to buy that type of lacquer thinner, as government regulations have resulted in a change in the chemicals used: it still works well enough as a paint thinner, but no longer reacts sufficiently with styrene to create a good bond.MEK does react with styrene and does create a strong bond. However, it evapourates so rapidly that it's almost impossible to coat large surfaces and have both remain wet enough to create the bond. You could start a bond along one edge, then separate the unbonded area, slip a large brush between the two surfaces and make a pass, quickly removing the brush and pressing the wetted surfaces together. You'd need to continue in this manner until you had worked your way right across the area to be joined. Wayne
richhotrain ...Question: assuming that I "laminate" .020" styrene onto .040" styrene, should I use MEK, contact cement, or something else?
All You have to do is right click on all His pic's in this thread and they will be larger.
Take Care!
Frank
I think what Dave was wishing for was the ability to zoom in on the image, not merely to enlarge it.
richhotrainSo, if not laquer thinner or MEK, then what? Contact cement? Rich
Plastruct Plastic Weld, Orange bottle...it contains MEK.
http://www.hobbylinc.com/plastruct-plastiweld-1-plastic-model-cement-00002?source=froogle&gclid=Cj0KEQiAoby1BRDA
If You lightly sand both pieces that You want to glue, it will weld better and stronger than just brushing it on. Also if You coat both pieces that You want to join and they are already drying they still will bond to one another like contact cement. Once set, You could still add more if You like it will draw in quicker to the sanded surface. Just a small edge is all that is required to sand. I use 220 to 320 grit.
And if You are worried about spilling the bottle...drill a hole in a scrap piece of 1x and insert bottle in hole, after opening, won't knock over.
zstripe richhotrain So, if not laquer thinner or MEK, then what? Contact cement? Rich Plastruct Plastic Weld, Orange bottle...it contains MEK. http://www.hobbylinc.com/plastruct-plastiweld-1-plastic-model-cement-00002?source=froogle&gclid=Cj0KEQiAoby1BRDA If You lightly sand both pieces that You want to glue, it will weld better and stronger than just brushing it on. Also if You coat both pieces that You want to join and they are already drying they still will bond to one another like contact cement. Once set, You could still add more if You like it will draw in quicker to the sanded surface. Just a small edge is all that is required to sand. I use 220 to 320 grit. And if You are worried about spilling the bottle...drill a hole in a scrap piece of 1x and insert bottle in hole, after opening, won't knock over. Take Care! Frank
richhotrain So, if not laquer thinner or MEK, then what? Contact cement? Rich
Rich,
Testors cement in the black triangular bottle with the needle aplicator is also very good. It has the right solvent action and will stay wet long enough to spread on two pieces and laminate effectively.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Hey Mel!
You just taught me something new - I had no clue about the browser magnifier!
Thanks
Unfortunately the picture resolution isn't good enough to see what the dark dots are on the roof but I'm guessing they are there to keep the snow from sliding off.
For what it's worth, the slope on the roof is about 5/12. If you are not familiar with the nomenclature, that means for every 12" the roof runs horizontally it rises 5".
They are called snow or ice guards.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddy They are called snow or ice guards.
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
Hi richotrain
I am not great with scatch building but one thing I have learned is the .020 thickness plastic is to thin to go unsuported.
You need to frame it or stick it to a thicker support sheet.
You can use the foam core sheet as a backer sheet but you will have to be very carefull to make sure 150% sure any super or other glue is foam safe.
You will also have to do any plastic to plastic bonding the day before its stuck to the foam core and hope it doesn't twist, plastic glues will melt the foam
regards John
Henry and farrella:
Thanks, yes, I knew what they were called. I was just being lazy. We also call them "snow birds".
The thing that is strange to me is that there are so many of them. We use them here in Ontario but there are usually only one or two rows, not most of the roof. Also, they are primarily used on metal roofs, not asphalt. However, they must have had their reasons. I would have a word with the installer though. They aren't spaced very evenly!
Modelling them could be tedious.
I don't think it's an asphalt roof. Looking above the dormer on the left, the edges are very prominent. It might be slate or now they have a synthetic slate.
And there are many types of metal roofs, too, that have the look of slate or shingles. If it was metal, that would explain the reason for so many snow gaurds, because of the large area.
Henry:
You might be right. Certainly the ridge caps seem to have the profile of steel shingles when you blow the picture up.
On the other hand, where the snow birds (or whatever you wish to call them) are inserted under the shingles there appears to be quite a shadow, as though the shingles have been pried up. The shadows are not uniform so I'm thinking that the shingle tabs are in the process of settling down around the snow birds. To me, that suggests asphalt shingles with the snow birds having been installed in colder weather. Crappy job if you ask me.
Ultimately we can discuss the snow birds, dogs, contraptions, whatever you want to call them to death, but we're not helping Rich much with his project. (Sorry for hijacking the thread Rich). I think the real question is whether or not to model them. I would say 'no' because I think they would distract from the structure, and it would be a heck of a lot of tedious work.
What do the rest of you say?
I would say forget'em. I Googled the mansion, not many pictures of this particular building, but other pictures I did see, the guards on not on there. One picture shows some type of guard that runs parallel with the roof, in 3 places, spaced evenly.
This would be a great project, as I have been watching this thread. Everything on my layout is scatched and bashed from other parts. Even if you couldn't get correct dimensions, you can still make a structure that is proportioned right, and "fits" what the proto looks like.