Greetings,I am seeking some advice and opinions from fellow Model Railroaders. I'm considering getting into the hobby myself, but can't actually make up my mind if I should or not. Part of me has the urge to pursue it partly because I already have some HO stuff I hung onto from like 10-12 years ago, and because I have fond memories of creating models and dioramas.However, part of me is a bit hesitant about it due to the seemingly high cost of getting into the hobby, and some space requirements. I would like some tips and maybe advice/opinions from more experienced people who have been at the hobby a while. Is it possible to kind of "test the waters" with this? In other words, to like test it out on a small scale without investing too much to see if I really am interested? Can it still be fun and even possible if you are limited to a small space? At best I would have a 4x8 area to work with at the moment. I would prefer to work with HO scale since that is what I already have some of, but I know N scale might be better for my space requirements. Any suggestions here?That's about it. Really, I'm just looking for any info or opinions or whatever on the subject in relation to starting up the hobby and deciding if I should really pursue it or not when I'm on the fence about it. I greatly appreciate any feedback and help, this looks like a great community! :)P.S.In case it's relevant, the HO stuff I mentioned that I already have consists of, 2 Sante Fe locos (only one is powered), 3-4 other cars/rolling stock, and maybe 30 or so Life-Like track, enough to make an oval. A junkie transformer that came with the set, and 1 track switch.
For a low cost, get your feet wet, intro to the hobby, read the magazines, Model Railroading and Rail Model Craftsman. Subscribe even.
Space to build a layout is kinda essential. Plenty of people have built 4 by 8 foot model railroads on a sheet of plywood. Benchwork for a 4 by 8 is really simple if your carpentry skills and/or tools are limited. A couple of sawhorses, or those cheapy 2 drawer file cabinets will do to support the plywood off the floor. You can start out with snap track, and re arrange your track plan to your heart's content. When you get the urge for scenery and structures, think about nailing down your track, or going to flextrack, 'cause scenery and structures are difficult-to-impossible to relocate should you want to change your track plan. Think about having a deep river valley, which the trains cross on soaring bridges. Think about dividing the 4 by 8 into two scenes by running a backdrop and view block down the middle. Operations seem more realistic if you cannot see the train running around a table.
Read "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" by John Armstrong.
Cost doesn't have to be a problem. Used equipment can be had for very reasonable prices at train shows. Do the Saturday morning yard sale route, you can often find trainsets going for pennies on the dollar. Scrounge lumber from construction sites, or the town dump.
HO vs N. HO is more common, you are more likely to find used HO equipment than N. If your eyesight is getting old, you may find N just too small to see. If you like model building (kits, scratchbuild, kitbash,adding details) HO is large enough to see and work on. N is really too small. The smaller N does give you more railroad in the same space, and if you like running trains more than building them, N can be the way to go.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
If you are looking to go with low costs, and only have a 4'x8' space to work in, why not try building a O gauge layout, of the high rail type, with used Lionel equipment? O gauge takes up less space, curve radius wise, than HO scale, and if you like to do a lot of the building and mechanical stuff, you can rebuild under the table equipment that is almost always under $10. HO is decent, but as long as you don't mind the less realistic looks of "toy" trains, I would go that route based upon what I saw in your post.
If you really are into trains, then it's a no brainer - thats how I see it. If you are on the fence, sounds like you only sorta kinda like trains. For me it's been a major thing since I was a wee tyke!
If you really are into trains, then like most people, they usually find a way to afford it at some level. Model RRing can be as expensive as you like, but you CAN do it at modest expense too. Case in point, I go to big train shows and see great prices on lots of nice rolling stock, much of it new in the box and never ran. You can get older kits for a song, like $5 to $10 range for Athearn, MDC, Accurail, Walthers red box, even Proto 2000 kits. If you find estate sales, which is frequent at train shows, you can find NIB high quality items for $10-15. You can also find track in good shape for cheap, power packs etc. Also watch Ebay, you can pick items up for a good price if you are patient - some you win, some you lose but over time you can pick up some good deals.
So yeah, if you look at new prices, especially MSRP, you will be scared away - unless you are a major enthusast that is. Like I said, people who are really into a hobby, be it motorcycles, or whatever, usually find a way to afford their poison.
But if cost really is a factor and you aren't one of those people who can scare up the cash, then you can still enjoy the hobby if you can get yourself to some train shows and peruse Ebay etc. There are literally TONS of nice model trains stuff on the secondary market, most of it at train shows so you can do it on the cheap if you can be look for those bargains. Of course I suggest you avoid the toy train junk that may be tempting to buy but it will spoil your fun due to the low quality (Tyco, Bachman, Life Like toy train quality train cars).
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Model railroading is not necessarily an expensive hobby! I do my MRRing on less than a shoe string budget, but I still enjoy it a lot!
The best start is to collect a lot of information suitable for beginners. Our host Kalmbach has a nice book about getting started in the hobby - click here
Space may be an issue for quite a lot of us, but there are may ways to solve this issue, from shelf layouts to mini-modular layouts to foldable layouts. You don´t need a basement filling empire to enjoy the hobby!
Allow me to give my usual answer when I'm asked during the club's open houses about the cost of the hobby.. How much you want to spend?
One doesn't need DCC/Sound equipped locomotives,DCC or a large layout to enjoy the hobby.
Since you metion a 4x8 layout then I would consider modeling a branchline of a large railroad or a shortline. Either way two locomotives and 30 or so cars would suffice and would give hours of enjoyment.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Sounds like you're almost there. A lot of great suggestions. Price and space is always an issue. Bigger many not be better for most. Being prejuidice, HO scale has so much to offer in selection. Stick with it. If you have a space for a 4x8, maybe cut the sheet in have and make an "L" shaped switching layout for starters. Or, build those 2 sections as modules so when you have the $$ and space to do so, your work won't go wasted. Timesaver switching layouts can be fun and add many hours of enjoyment. Once you get some track down, add some structures and maybe some scenery. Train shows also have dealers selling stuff and deals can be had, depending on what your looking for. Maybe join a club in your area. See if they offer a trial membership, or go and talk to the people at the club. Not everyone has the space for a layout, so they join a club, or they know others who have layouts and run trains with them. So, with all that being said, WELCOME BACK TO THE HOBBY!
Neal
Good advice so far. Tune your equipment so it runs well, every time. Clean loco wheels. Install knuckle type couplers on cars and engines, and test against a Kadee height gauge. Make sure your cars are properly weighted. Install quality metal wheelsets and "tune" the inner surfaces of the truck side frame (Micro Mark sells a truck tuner). All of this can be done on a test bench. Clean your track.
Nothing spoils fun quicker than derailments or poor loco performance caused by dirty wheels/track.
Have fun!
Don't fret the cost too much. Cost spread out if you do it smartly. One building might be $60 but if it takes you 2 months to build, then that's $30/month. You could easily blow that one night at the movies, or a dinner out. Just budget for it and decide "I want to spend $X/month." That way you don't get in trouble.A highly detailed layout can be ~$100/sq ft. not including cars and engines. However, you can get away much cheaper. People have used all kinds of cheap & free stuff from recycled materials, to dirt, weeds, and plants in their back yard.A common mistake among newbies is focusing on the 4x8. A 4x8 can be fun. My favorite is the 4x8 Virginian. But as many will tell you, if you have room for a 4x8 you have the room for a round the room layout. (30" deep benchwork butted up against the outside walls) This will yield to more space and broader curves.
For example: A 4x8 is 32 sq ft. If you have 2 feet isle clearance around a 4x8 this is a 8x12 room. Accounting for a 30" clearance for the door, you would have 48.75 sq ft, and an open 45 sq feet open area (9x5) to work in. And with 30" deep table shelves you can safely run wide curves. Win-win
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
You could start with a switching layout to get your feet wet. Most 'big box' building supply stores sell 2' x 8' plywood that would work, you could even go smaller. That way you can try out scenery, buildings, etc. in a manageable space.
For the most part, here's what you need:
* A base, or table, on which to build the layout.
* At least one locomotive.
* Some cars.
* Some track, usually including at least enough switches to create a runaround.
* A power source, and wiring for it.
You have most of these. Get whatever additional items you need to arrive at the minimum above. Secure the track to the base, wire it up, and start operating. Add, upgrade, and/or replace equipment as you see fit. If you don't feel inclined to continue after this minimal investment, you're not cut out to be a Model Railroader. If you do, you are. Experiment concluded, at minimal expense.
See? It ain't complicated. And by the way, we all hope you'll stick around.
Tom
P.S. You may find that some of your older equipment is not up to modern standards. It would be incorrect to suggest that all newer equipment is better, but you should remember that many older features like brass rail, truck-mounted couplers, X2f ("NMRA") couplers, and other older concepts have been largely discredited. They have been very frustrating to newcomers in the past, and I hope they will not afflict you. The forum members are ready and willing to help.
I personally would throw out the life like track unless funds are severely limited if in that case I would go on Ebay and purchase a Life-Like train set and use it with your existing track and a power pack would be included with the new train set. You can find a decent train set by Walthers who owns Life Like now for well under $200. If cost is not a factor you can buy Atlas snap track and use one of their many available starter plans for 4x8 or similar and nail it to a 4x8 plywood.
As for engines/rolling stock again Ebay and local train shows are your best bet. You can find good deals on new and used engines and cars of your preference. Im assuming DC will be what you want since you are limited in cost. DCC is mostly the norm these days but it is expensive especially when you start adding sound decoders in your engines or buying DCC engines.
Regg
Pretty simple.
Regg05 I personally would throw out the life like track unless funds are severely limited if in that case I would go on Ebay and purchase a Life-Like train set and use it with your existing track and a power pack would be included with the new train set. You can find a decent train set by Walthers who owns Life Like now for well under $200. If cost is not a factor you can buy Atlas snap track and use one of their many available starter plans for 4x8 or similar and nail it to a 4x8 plywood. As for engines/rolling stock again Ebay and local train shows are your best bet. You can find good deals on new and used engines and cars of your preference. Im assuming DC will be what you want since you are limited in cost. DCC is mostly the norm these days but it is expensive especially when you start adding sound decoders in your engines or buying DCC engines. Regg Pretty simple.
For that matter, I would sell/chuck the Life Like engines. They are F profile diesels, I expect, and as such utter pos. Bachmann makes some decent DC diesels that would work much better, ranging from $50-100 last I checked.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I have friends that are train guys, I have friends that are RC guys, model building guys, slot car guys, military diorama guys, doll house girls… When you go to the hobby store what aisle do you naturally go to?
I like all of those things so model railroading gives me a chance to do all of them and a place to display it. To me model railroading is as much about the model cars and trucks, figures and structures as it is trains.
It’s a life long hobby and it seems like you just took a break from it like most of us do in those years between childhood and adulthood. Start small with what you have and let it grow. MR has published several great track plans for small layouts to give you ideas. Get a piece of 4x8 plywood and start playing around. You will know if you like it or not before you spend a lot of money.
This hobby can be as expensive or as inexpensive as you want to make it. There are plenty of bargains on eBay where used locos and rolling stock are abundant. I know most of the people here are against the toy brands but if funds are low you can get ten used Tyco, AHM, Bachmann or Lifelike cars in a lot for as low as $10 or less. Later you can upgrade to nicer models.
P.s. If you have limited space you might consider a shelf layout which takes up almost no space. You could connect it to your 4x8 for some extra miles…..
Well the bad news is that a 4x8 fully decked out will cost over $1000. The good news is that you can spread the cost way out over time.
A 4x8 HO layout is the way many of us (myself included) started. So yes you can have a lot of fun with it. A 4x8 sheet of 1/2" plywood on a grid framework about 30"-36" high is a good start. The train you have and power pack can be used to get you started. Go with Atlas code 100 NS track. If your Life-Like track is the kind with roadbed, I would dump it. If it's the kind without roadbed then you can probably use it with Atlas.
There are many plans for a 4x8 or you can do your own. The advantage of a tabletop layout is that it is easy to rearrange the track and structures - just don't glue anything down. This will you allow to try different arrangements. Build your structures on a piece of plywood and you can move them around easily.
Stick with the cheaper products as you get your feet wet. Think of this first layout as a chance to experiment with whatever appeals to you.
But really, the only way to know for sure is to jump in and see how it goes.
Good luck
Paul
I got a 30x15' layout and over time, it has cost me nothing, including all the stuff that goes on it. Stuff can be had cheap on e-bay and at train shows. A lot of my base (foam), I got for free, in fact I could have gotten most of my benchwork for free but wanted to use 1x4's so spent some money there. Why the low cost, I bought at cheap prices and after the layout was built sold leftovers for more than I paid so it is going to be a wash.
You did not mention where you live; if you are within driving distance of southern Maine, the Great Falls Model RR Club is having their fall show at the high school in Topsham, next to Brunswick, this saturday from 9 to 3.
This is the beginning of the model rr show season. I am sure folks can direct you to other shows closer to your home if Maine is not close. Shows are a good place to check out what is going on. usually there are layouts on display and the used equipment bargan tables.
You may make contact with a local model RR club. If the group is active, they may offer clinics on layout building for members.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Its possible that if you have high expectations for what your models or layouts should look like from pictures you see in publications, you may be disappointed and frustrated with the hobby. Because a lot of us just don't have the ability to recreate some of the wonderful things we see, both in terms of pictures and real life club layouts.
It takes time and patience to work up to a skill level that you see others deploy. So if your're willing to stick with it, make mistakes, probably buy more stuff that you need....but in the end learn more, it can be a rewarding hobby.
Fortunately, you said that you enjoyed model and diorama building years ago. That doesn't require a lot of space.
I look at the hobby in terms of satisfying two sides of my brain, the artsy side, and the side that appreciates precision and problem solving. The artsy side is easy to understand. The problem solving side is actually what real railroads do. They basically have the task of figuring out how to get a bunch of train cars from one point to the next as effeiciently as possible. This is where OPERATIONS comes into play for a layout. And you can certainly have problem solving type of ops in a small space.
So if the model building aspect gets frustrating or boring, or running trains through the same scenes gets boring, you can work on running your layout as much like a real railroad as possible. The other side of your brain gets used, which freshens things up.
A common complaint with MRailroaders is that they lacked focus about what they wanted to model...basically... they like everything and bought everything, but in the end, it didn't help them achieve what they really wanted.
If what you really like, is the idea of a small steam locomotive chugging and pulling a string of log cars from the camp to the mill, then there is no point fretting about how to use your current Santa Fe locos (I assume diesels)
Maybe the layout just needs to be a simple scenicked loop by which you can run and display your models and scenery.
So ask yourself why you like the hobby? and the answers will help you see what you want to build in your 4x8..and we can all help guide you along the way.
- Douglas
IRONROOSTER Well the bad news is that a 4x8 fully decked out will cost over $1000. The good news is that you can spread the cost way out over time. <snip> Good luck Paul
<snip>
Now don't go freaking the guy out. Good grief!
For what it's worth, I built the basic benchwork for my 10x18' layout between $300-400 - that includes wood, legs, drywall screws, sub-roadbed and homasote. It's got two levels on one side to include staging. I mean a sheet of 7/16" OSB is only $8 at home depot - homasote $26. Of course it doesn't have to be packed with expensive buildings and stuff. so it doesn't have to be bad news. Use Atlas turnouts to and flex to keep costs down or get track at train shows and Ebay - doesn't have to be anywhere near 1 grand for a simple 4x8. Just sayin ...
Kind of a strange thread, in my opinion. Of course we are all going to encourage participation in the hobby since we are model railroaders. And, now we are backing into forbidden territory - - a discussion of the high cost of the hobby, or not.
If the OP wants an objective, unbiased opinion on whether to enter the hobby, he might be best advised to inquire elsewhere. Now, I am sure that some will disagree with my stance on this, but if I were in that position, I would be more inclined to talk to friends about their hobbies and whether they are costly, whether they hold their interest, whether they have any regrets.
Rich
Alton Junction
Well, may I add........... I find it "odd" that one would seek others input concerning whether they should enter a hobby or pasttime. If I am going to get into something, the main drive would be my want to do so - and not from the encouragement or discouragement of others.
If the OP is interested in pursuing the hobby, then get some how to mags and go to it. He will soon find out if it is for him or not.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Xterminator, whether you get into the hobby will probably depend on how much time you have to devote to it and your state of health and mind. For me, its a great retirement outlet for creativity and many of the skills I have picked up over the years. Like others I built craftsmen car kits and some structures when I first got into the hobby and my kids were really small. Along came kids sports and more job demands and the model stuff all went into storage for roughly 40 yrs. When I retired from general contracting I was ready to get back into the hobby. I have limited financial resources so model railroading is a budget hobby for me. Hand laying all track and scratch building all switches which I find fun and rewarding. Spend as you have extra funds and have fun.
The comments about visiting a club or train show are good advise. Highly recommend at least trying to go to a local NMRA event. Most are held monthly. Regions are not to large so it is feasible to attend a meeing in a day without having to pay for a motel room.
Good luck on your decision. Everyone needs some type of hobby.
Jim
First of all, I would like to thank everyone for their replies and input, I'm amazed by how many people chimmed in and how willing to help you all are. :) I have already learned some new things and gained some ideas based off of people's suggestions.In response to the few people who questioned my intentions when making the thread to begin with, I want to clarify some stuff: I didn't make the thread to have people make the decision for me because as you stated, pretty much everyone here will be at least a bit biased. Really I was just looking for information and viewpoints/experiences from people who have had experience with the hobby, because I have very little knowledge of it as a whole. Now to just clarify a couple things I neglected to mention in the original post... I live in Colorado, however at the moment I am living kind of in the middle of nowhere so unfortunately train shows or clubs are out of question right now. As for finding deals though I have looked on ebay quite a bit and spotted several good deals (or at least what I think is a good deal) on some things. Also, I'm in my early 20s so eyesight and precision aren't a problem right now. I'm actually pretty inexperienced in this realm so right now I'm just trying to learn as much as I can before I decide to jump in or not, hence this thread. :pIn terms of budget, I'm pretty limited but can spread out the purchasing of things over time as people have suggested. I also have access to a lot of the actual materials for things because my dad does tons of carpentry/electric work etc and I live near by. In fact I'm hoping to perhaps start this up with him, but that remains to be seen. HahaAny other info or opinions or anything is greatly appreciated! Also any info or tips you can on the pricing of things would be very helpful because I'm not actually sure what really is a good deal or not at this point. I saw someone mentioned code 100 track, and in fact I had been looking into it on Ebay. Is a lot of like 300 pieces of code 100, nickel silver track at like $50 a good deal or no?Anyways thanks again everyone, I look forward to participating on these forums since I find the hobby fascinating regardless of my decision. Oh, one last thing. How exactly do I tell the difference between a toy train loco/rolling stock and none? I saw some brands mentioned, but don't those brands make non-toy things as well, or do they not?P.S.Yes the Sante Fe locos are diesel, and the powered one works "okay" but I think the wheels or track need cleaning for it work properly. The track does have just black plastic roadbed, and personally I'm not a fan of it, I prefer the look of the track without it.
mobilman44 Well, may I add........... I find it "odd" that one would seek others input concerning whether they should enter a hobby or pasttime.
Well, may I add........... I find it "odd" that one would seek others input concerning whether they should enter a hobby or pasttime.
Honestly I do not find it odd at all. A little research might keep one from "buyers remorse". While I can't speak for others, I can attest to the fact that my wife and I have both made investments into hobby (jewelry making, scrap booking, woodworking) supplies that are quite literally collecting dust...
Cheap or expensive matters not, if one does not feel as though they have gotten something out of the investment, than one will not feel that investment was wise.
As for advice, I agree that asking those who have a passion for the hobby in question may result in a rather biased response, but I would say the responses so far have been rather good. I too would advise the following:
Find a train show - this gives you the oppurtunity to see both cost and quality, and may help solidify your intrest in things like scale or prototype.
Purchase the following; x-acto knife, styrene cement, tweezers, nail files (the double sided foam backed kind), small screwdriver set, one basic freight car kit (for instance in HO Accurail, Bowser, and Atlas Trainman have basic kits), and one basic building kit (in HO the Atlas signal tower is what I usually recommend)
Purchasing a beginer's book tailored to your chosen scale is a good investment, but you can also check online for how-to videos, some of which are very well done.
Now give it a try! Even if your intention ends up being the use of all "ready to run", you will still need the basic skills that building a couple of basic kits can give you. If the model railroad bug bites, that's great! You can look into purchasing a train set, or putting together a set yourself. But if you find this hobby's not for you, no harm no foul. You are only out the cost of two kits and maybe one book. The tools can always be used elsewhere.
mobilman44 If I am going to get into something, the main drive would be my want to do so - and not from the encouragement or discouragement of others.
If I am going to get into something, the main drive would be my want to do so - and not from the encouragement or discouragement of others.
I wholeheartedly agree with this, and would suggest the OP keep this in mind as they make their decision.
No matter what, HAVE FUN! Thats what ALL hobbies are supposed to be about!
EDIT: Just to be clear, I am aware of the fact the OP already has model building experience. The advice above is what I give anyone who asks me how to get started in model railroading.
Chris Ballinger
Modeling the Clementon Branch of the Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines in HO scale
Perhaps ask yourself what is it about this hobby you're most interested in seeking. Some might disagree, but the size of the layout really doesn't matter. What matters far more is flawless execution of the trackwork and the layout. Some enjoy having a train go around in circles. Others, like replicating a realistic operation of trains picking up or dropping off cars. Still other esteemed colleagues prefer something in between or totally different.
Reading on the forums, getting books, and talking to people are great ways of getitng into this hobby. I too was quite hesitant to start this hobby after worrying that it was a time and money sink. Instead, you can go quite far in this hobby cheaply without the layout looking toy-like.
Feel free to contact me privately and I can see about helping further. You might decide to build a layout and discover a novel way of doing something. Goodness knows that's happened to me. Whatever joy you get from this hobby, those who see your work will get more.
Something that has not been mentioned is that one of the best ways to keep costs down is prototype/era discipline. If (and its' a big if) you can indentify what it is about model railroading that interests you it can be a big help. A lot of money can be wasted buying one of everything that catches your eye. That can be a way to enjoy the hobby but if your funds and space (and time) are limited, buying things that fit into a cohesive whole can really help with the overall budget. Reading and planning at this stage to try and identify what really attracts you to trains is time very well spent. As an example, if what you like is tunnel motors through Moffat Tunnel, then purchasing a wooden caboose does not further your goal. Setting up a 4 x 8 starter layout does not need this kind of goal setting but the sooner you can move in a specific direction the more it helps in keeping you going in the hobby.
Xterminator First of all, I would like to thank everyone for their replies and input, I'm amazed by how many people chimmed in and how willing to help you all are. :) I have already learned some new things and gained some ideas based off of people's suggestions.In response to the few people who questioned my intentions when making the thread to begin with, I want to clarify some stuff: I didn't make the thread to have people make the decision for me because as you stated, pretty much everyone here will be at least a bit biased. Really I was just looking for information and viewpoints/experiences from people who have had experience with the hobby, because I have very little knowledge of it as a whole. Now to just clarify a couple things I neglected to mention in the original post... I live in Colorado, however at the moment I am living kind of in the middle of nowhere so unfortunately train shows or clubs are out of question right now. As for finding deals though I have looked on ebay quite a bit and spotted several good deals (or at least what I think is a good deal) on some things. Also, I'm in my early 20s so eyesight and precision aren't a problem right now. I'm actually pretty inexperienced in this realm so right now I'm just trying to learn as much as I can before I decide to jump in or not, hence this thread. :pIn terms of budget, I'm pretty limited but can spread out the purchasing of things over time as people have suggested. I also have access to a lot of the actual materials for things because my dad does tons of carpentry/electric work etc and I live near by. In fact I'm hoping to perhaps start this up with him, but that remains to be seen. HahaAny other info or opinions or anything is greatly appreciated! Also any info or tips you can on the pricing of things would be very helpful because I'm not actually sure what really is a good deal or not at this point. I saw someone mentioned code 100 track, and in fact I had been looking into it on Ebay. Is a lot of like 300 pieces of code 100, nickel silver track at like $50 a good deal or no?Anyways thanks again everyone, I look forward to participating on these forums since I find the hobby fascinating regardless of my decision. Oh, one last thing. How exactly do I tell the difference between a toy train loco/rolling stock and none? I saw some brands mentioned, but don't those brands make non-toy things as well, or do they not?P.S.Yes the Sante Fe locos are diesel, and the powered one works "okay" but I think the wheels or track need cleaning for it work properly. The track does have just black plastic roadbed, and personally I'm not a fan of it, I prefer the look of the track without it.
When it comes to locomotives, 70's-80's TYCO is no good. Ditto on Life-Like, MDC, and another brand I have had issues with but I cannot remember. In terms of cars, they are all fine in my opinion, but you might find that some wheelsets might need to be replaced for better operation. If you are interested in operation and looks over detailing of the models, as before I am tempted to steer you in the direction hi-rail modeling if you build a 4'-8'. However, I saw that some peeps had pointed out that if it is a spare room, an around the walls would work better, in which case HO is excellent. If you are an empire builder, however, either HO or an On30" industrial layout (logging or mining being the first that come to mind) would work better, as there is more potential in building models on that end of the spectrum.
XterminatorI had been looking into it on Ebay.
With Ebay deals, be sure to include the shipping cost in your eveluation; sometimes an item is priced low, but the shipping is high
There is lots of track plans on the Model Railroader site; you may have to be a subsciber to access them however
http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/track-plan-database
http://mrr.trains.com/track-planning-operation