The passenger windows in McKeen cars open inward and hang on hooks just below the ceiling, so just imagine the passengers all want fresh air!
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Hi Joel:
Thanks for the suggestions.
As far as cutting and polishing discs for the windows, I may be patient but I don't think I'm quite that patient. Also, I have used MicroScale Crystal Clear to form windows in a scratch built yard tower but I was simply not satisfied with the results. I wanted to detail the interior of the tower but the lack of clarity in the glazing turned that into a waste of time.
My feeling is that if I am going to glaze the windows then it has to look like glass i.e. perfectly flat and clear. If I can't get that then I'd rather leave the windows unglazed. Certainly you can't get anything clearer than no glazing at all.
Sorry if I seem to be very fussy regarding this, but like everyone, there are some things that just don't sit right with me, and poor glazing is one of them.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter Hi Joel: I was wondering if there was something out there like what you suggest. Thanks for the idea. The problem I see is that 7mm simply will not fit into the window frames. The .25" styrene discs that I have punched out are already a very tight fit so I think that the extra .65mm would be a killer. They would work perfectly if I could mount them on the surface of the frames but unfortunately the frames have already been glued in place flush with the outside of the shell, and the window frame rings are too thick and not all the same exact thickness so mounting the coverglass on the inside wouldn't look even. Had I not installed the brass window frames at all the coverglass discs would have fit into the window openings quite nicely. However, I really wanted the brass window frames to show even though they wouldn't have been as obvious on the prototype. Yes, I'm getting pretty fussy here (perhaps 'pig headed' would be more accurate), but I do appreciate your suggestion very much. I'll keep it in mind. Thank you. Dave
I was wondering if there was something out there like what you suggest. Thanks for the idea. The problem I see is that 7mm simply will not fit into the window frames. The .25" styrene discs that I have punched out are already a very tight fit so I think that the extra .65mm would be a killer. They would work perfectly if I could mount them on the surface of the frames but unfortunately the frames have already been glued in place flush with the outside of the shell, and the window frame rings are too thick and not all the same exact thickness so mounting the coverglass on the inside wouldn't look even. Had I not installed the brass window frames at all the coverglass discs would have fit into the window openings quite nicely. However, I really wanted the brass window frames to show even though they wouldn't have been as obvious on the prototype.
Yes, I'm getting pretty fussy here (perhaps 'pig headed' would be more accurate), but I do appreciate your suggestion very much. I'll keep it in mind.
Thank you.
Hi Dave,
I see what you mean about the fit. Apart from trying to have AMB make you a set, I had a thought that involves a bit of work. You could take a length of 0.25 inch clear rod and turn it down in a drill with fine grit sandpaper to get the exact fit you need. Next, you would need to slice the resized rod into thin disks with a fine jeweler's blade or whatever. Next, you would need to successively polish the tooling marks out of both sides of each disk. Finer and finer grit wet/dry paper until you get the disk crystal clear (this is a trick that my military modeler brother uses to get crystal clear canopies for his aircraft builds). You can get extremely high grit sand paper for this purpose (google polishing canopies). The process is time consuming, but you would be ensured a perfect fit in each window.
A less attractive alternative is to use microscale crystal clear (as you may know a type of white resin liquid that looks like white glue) to make the "glass" in each circular window. You would need to experiment on some rings to see if you can get a thin film to form that when dry will be the glazing. I have used this method with some success, but the "glass" can have weird optical properties. Kind of like looking through a thick piece of bottle glass. Thinning down the CC may give better results...
Joel
Modeling the C&O New River Subdivision circa 1949 for the fun of it!
hon30critter Hi Bear: I don't think I'm trying too hard, but what I won't accept is window glazing that is not clear and flat. I can get flat discs by punching multiple discs before removing them from the punch, but the last 4 or 5 are damaged by the force needed to push them out. Unfortunately, the ones that are flat are fractured slightly around the outside edges enough that the damage would be visible, and the fracturing leaves bits on the edge that increase the diameter enough that when the disc is pushed into the frame it is curved. The curvature is minor but still enough to be noticed. If I could find a source that could laser cut the discs from Lexan that would work perfectly. I think I will give American Model Builders, makers of LaserKit glazing, a call. Dave
Hi Bear:
I don't think I'm trying too hard, but what I won't accept is window glazing that is not clear and flat. I can get flat discs by punching multiple discs before removing them from the punch, but the last 4 or 5 are damaged by the force needed to push them out. Unfortunately, the ones that are flat are fractured slightly around the outside edges enough that the damage would be visible, and the fracturing leaves bits on the edge that increase the diameter enough that when the disc is pushed into the frame it is curved. The curvature is minor but still enough to be noticed.
If I could find a source that could laser cut the discs from Lexan that would work perfectly. I think I will give American Model Builders, makers of LaserKit glazing, a call.
How about 7mm circular coverglass #0? You can buy them from a number of scientific vendors (a quick google search pulled up a few). 7mm is just a bit larger than 0.25 inch which is equal to 6.35mm, so you should be good.
I have had great success using a small 000 brush to apply Johnson's acrylic floor wax as glazing adhesive. Capillary action draws the clear acrylic to the mating surfaces without any mess and it dries completely clear.
To handle glass glazing without smudging, I use a miniature suction tool to pick up and put the glazing in place.
BTW, great build.
Hi Wayne:
Thanks for the offer. By all means have a go if you wish. Again, it will be no big deal if the round windows aren't glazed. I'll glaze the square cab windows and just pretend it is a very hot day for the passengers.
Just to clarify, the window glazing is 1/4" diameter. 9/32" is the OD of the brass window frames.
Part of the problem with the clear styrene is that the punch doesn't cut cleanly through. The styrene tends to fracture leaving a small amount of flash around the outside edge. Perhaps I'm not using a solid enough surface to allow the punch to work cleanly. I was worried that I would dull the punch if the surface was too hard. I have a piece of oak which I will try.
EDIT:
I just tried the oak and the results were worse.
hon30critter Hi Bear: The windows are 9/32" in diameter, and they stick very firmly in the punch. I tried a number of things to push them out but anything soft enough to not mar the surface simply broke, and anything hard enough to pop the windows out also damaged them. I think George Paine's idea should work, although I will try .040" styrene as well as the cardboard he suggested. Thanks Dave
The windows are 9/32" in diameter, and they stick very firmly in the punch. I tried a number of things to push them out but anything soft enough to not mar the surface simply broke, and anything hard enough to pop the windows out also damaged them. I think George Paine's idea should work, although I will try .040" styrene as well as the cardboard he suggested.
Thanks
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I have painted the exterior, and I have installed the brass window frames. Glazing the windows hasn't worked out as I had hoped, and neither did the modeling of the open window frames. I managed to get a couple of the open window frames installed but the rest wouldn't let the fixed part of the window frame sit flush with the outside of the car sides. I'm not going to worry about installing any more open window frames because the truth is that they are very hard to see, and trying to see them would result in a lot of unnecessary handling of the car with the resulting toll on the paint etc. This is a situation where there is too much detail.
I'm also thinking of leaving the round windows unglazed because so far my efforts to cut clean, unmarred window glass haven't worked satisfactorily. The clear styrene is either damaged in the cutting process or it doesn't fit flat in the frame. Actually I'm quite happy to leave the windows unglazed because that it how I have modeled most of my other projects to date. Having said that, I do have some real glass window glazing from Ngineering that I think I will install in the square windows in the cab, that is if I can figure out how to get the glass really clean, i.e. no finger prints.
The wee beast is approaching completion. I have ordered some custom decals with both the 'McKeen Motor Car' lettering and the 'Cuyamaca Motor Car' lettering plus some stripes to go along the bottom of the shell. The Cuyamaca car was a predecessor of the Southern Pacific designation on their McKeen motor cars. SP had quite a number of the McKeen cars in various configurations. I haven't decided whether or not to use the Cuyamaca name because anything SP would be totally out of place on my railroad, not that the Mckeen car fits in any better.
George and Tom!
Actually, I had thought of the hula-hoop thing, but I'll be darned if I plan on filing another 10 rings smooth
.......or use the extras for HO Hula Hoops.
I'm just trying to be helpful.
Tom
hon30critter I cut 10 too many
Now you can model a ring toss game
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
karle:
I went beyond patient! I miscalculated how many rings I needed and I cut 10 too many.
karle......I have completed the Transfer.....
karle....and it came out better than anticipated.
karleI will post some photos in a new thread in the near future
karle It was a long and challenging build..
Thanks for the reply hon30. You must have real patience. I have often tought it would be good if there were a scratch builders website or category here to share techniques.
Jabear: thanks for remembering me and the Transfer project. I have been pretty much "off line" due to work and other priorities but have noticed occasionally that you are working on your ferry. Guess what, I have completed the Transfer and it came out better than anticipated. I will post some photosin a new thread in the near future though I am not much of a photographer . It was a long and challenging build.....as I am sure you can understand.
OOPS!!!!
I decided it was time to test my decoder installation. BIG short! After a little testing I determined that I had the rear truck wired to the wrong tracks.
The easiest solution was to switch the wires on the front truck and add 1 to CV 29. Worked like a charm!
Your comment about Georges suggestion is vey appropriate.
George!
You are brilliant!!
'Ask and ye shall receive'.
hon30critterI'm also having a hard time getting the windows out of the hole punch without damaging them. That
How about punching some other material, like cardboard and use that as a pusher to ease the clear styrene out of the puncher???
hon30critterOf course I don't mind you interjecting an unrelated question into the thread.
Hi Ulrich:
Thanks for your comment.
Yes, I will do a video, but it will be silent until I can get an appropriate sound decoder.
Hi karle:
I used a fine tooth razor saw to cut the rings. For the windows that will be modeled in the open position I left a tiny bit of the tube intact between the two rings to act as a hinge and then bent the open window into position. The hinges were rather weak so I used a bit of solder to reinforce them.
I will add that it took a lot of filing to get the rings smooth and of even thickness. I used a round file to smooth the insides of the rings and a small flat file to smooth the fronts and backs.
I will glaze the windows using a hole punch to cut .005" clear styrene. One question I have yet to answer is how to keep the windows clean when installing them. I'm going to try latex gloves, but if necessary I will use some alcohol on a Q tip to get the finger prints off. I'm also having a hard time getting the windows out of the hole punch without damaging them. That I have yet to resolve.
Bear:
Of course I don't mind you interjecting an unrelated question into the thread. What are the forums for if not to communicate.
Sorry Dave for butting in.
Really nice work. How did you manage to cut such thin rings off the brass tube.
Dave,
this is outstanding work!
Will we be seeing a nice video of your rail car?
Here are some shots of the progress to date:
I managed to get a decent shot of the roof rivet details:
The next step was to install the roof details. The exhaust vents (square thingies) aren't as delicate as I would like but what the heck:
Next step was to paint the interior and then install the interior lighting. Here is the LED 'tree'. I used 30.1K resistors so the LEDs just glow:
Here are the lights installed. I will paint the resistors the same colour as the ceiling:
Until I can get a decent sound decoder I am going to use a basic Digitrax unit. It sits quite nicely between the side entrance steps. I don't plan on turning the motor car upside down to show it off, and the wiring fits nicely between the air tanks:
I installed a plug in the cab so the shell could be removed. One lead is for the blue common, one for the white headlight, and the third is for interior lighting. I have decided to not illuminate the cab:
I managed to break two of the chains connected to the rear truck. Putting those back in place was a major pain but I managed to do it. The breakage occurred when I was trying to loosen up the chains after they had been lightly painted. I have decided that painting chains that are supposed to flex is not a good idea. I'll have to invest in some oxidizing chemicals.
I'm getting really close to painting the exterior of the shell, but I want to get as much other work done as I can so as to minimize the handling of the shell after it is painted. Thanks for straightening me out on that Bear.
More to come.
I'm going to post a few of the details on WPF too, simply because i can't get enough of blowing my own horn. David Bedard will have a ball with that statement!
All the best everyone!
Hi JaBear:
Yes I'm happy! You are very astute!
Honestly, I was so afraid of messing up the decals that I almost decided not to bother with them. The advice about using water only saved my butt!
Regards