I got the 6mm microscope coverslips a couple of days ago and I have decided not to use them for a couple of reasons.
First, unfortunately they are a bit smaller than the diameter of the brass window frames. Gluing them in place with Microscale Krystal Klear left a lot of visible distortion around the edges of the glass where the glue was filling the gap. The glue wasn't perfectly smooth, and the glue line made the windows look smaller then they actually are.
Also, getting all of the glass on exactly the same plane was impossible so the reflection off the glass wasn't consistent. It made some of the windows look crooked.
Finally, handling the glass was difficult. I have one of those suction cup parts holders on order which would make things easier but the uneven glue around the edges of the glass and the inability to get all the glass lined up parallel causes me to reject glazing the round windows.
The other reason for not glazing the round windows is that in every picture that I have seen of the different versions of the motor car the round windows are open. I still intend to glaze the cab front windows. I have some Ngineering real glass window material that I have cut to the exact size. Hopefully the glue lines won't show if the fit is tight.
Doctorwayne - thank you for your offer to punch out acrylic windows but I think I'm going to go for the fresh air look.
Next step is the decals which I'm still waiting on. Then I will touch up the paint on the frame and trucks where handling has taken a toll, add the final few exterior details and then clear coat. Cab windows will go in last so the clear coat doesn't mess them up.
Stay tuned!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Hi Wayne:
If for some reason the glass cover slips don't work I will get back to you.
Thanks again!
Dave, the only reason the discs are milky-looking in the centre is due to the centre point on the punch. Most of the other size punches have already had the point removed. I've used them to punch porthole windows for F- and E-units, and headlight lenses for various steam and diesel locomotives, with clean edges and no milkiness. The punched discs drop out of the die quite readily, as the hole widens below the stroke of the punch. The changeable die is also adjustable for height within the jaws: for thin material, it works best turned up, while thicker material requires a lower position. It can punch 14 gauge (.075") steel, and thicker sheets of aluminum, brass, copper, and plastic.
Wayne
doctorwayne ...and the punch used: Wayne
...and the punch used:
Holy Smokes Wayne. I have boxes of tools from my Grandfather and Great Grandfather. I am sure there is one of those punch kits in one of them. I had better find it and move it to the train room workshop. I never looked at it that closely and thought it was a rivet press.
Sorry Dave! Back to the continuing story of the great Mckeen kit slayer.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Thanks for your efforts!
I had the same problem when trying to remove the styrene discs from my manual punch. The force required caused the same sort of milky deformation in the center of the discs. If I punched about a dozen discs without removing them individually then I could get 4 or 5 that weren't deformed, but the edges were still fractured enough to render them unacceptable. If the cover slip glass fits it will be a perfect solution.
By the way, for all of you who were cringing at the bright coloured clothing on the passengers, I agree! They are totally out of place for 1907. Fortunately I glued them in place with Micro Krystal Klear so they pop out quite easily. They will be repainted in appropriately drab colours.
It sounds as if you've solved the issue with the window glass, but if you need a back-up plan, these may work. The 1/4" punch has an integral centre point, but most of the other punches in the set have had it removed and I'm not averse to altering this one in the same manner.
The one on the left was punched from .005" styrene, while the one in the centre was punched from the same material but with a piece of .018" aluminum over it, and the one on the right with the aluminum beneath it. The latter arrangement seems to give the cleanest cut:
Joel:
I really think the clear flat glazing will make the windows 'pop'. I'll have to do some experimentation to figure out how to install them cleanly with no glue buildup around the edges.
Thanks again,
All the best,
Hi Dave,
No problem. Glad I could help a fellow modeler. Happy glazing!
Joel
Modeling the C&O New River Subdivision circa 1949 for the fun of it!
hon30critterThe problem is that some items are not able to be shipped across the border for reasons I don't understand. When I bring up the cover slips the listing clearly states that "This item does not ship to Bradford, Ontario, Canada".
IN Amazon, there are Amazon direct items, like new books, and Amazon dealers or "shops" who are independant contractors. IN the case of your glass item, it probably comes from an Amazon shop that is one of the same sources that you found that do not ship to Canada. Moot point now that you have found it on EBay
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Joel!!!!!
Thank you, thank you, thank you for your perseverence!!!
Its amazing what using the right words can do for a search! I just ordered them, and just to add some shine to my bald head, they were $5.00 cheaper than the Amazon listings.
I owe you a beer, or three!
I really appreciate your help with this project!
hon30critter Hi Joel: Amazon does indeed ship to Canada. I buy things there regularly. The problem is that some items are not able to be shipped across the border for reasons I don't understand. When I bring up the cover slips the listing clearly states that "This item does not ship to Bradford, Ontario, Canada". I tried googling the supplier BIPEE but all the links I found just put me back to Amazon. I tried to find another supplier, but like you said, 6 mm is not a common size. I spent the better part of 2 hours searching. I'll have another go tonight. Thanks again for your help. Dave
Hi Joel:
Amazon does indeed ship to Canada. I buy things there regularly. The problem is that some items are not able to be shipped across the border for reasons I don't understand. When I bring up the cover slips the listing clearly states that "This item does not ship to Bradford, Ontario, Canada".
I tried googling the supplier BIPEE but all the links I found just put me back to Amazon. I tried to find another supplier, but like you said, 6 mm is not a common size. I spent the better part of 2 hours searching. I'll have another go tonight.
Thanks again for your help.
Dave,
I just checked eBay and the 6 mm coverslips are available. Search "6 mm cover glass" to find it.
Hi Randy:
I agree that if the punch were spinning it would likely cut cleanly through the plastic, using the abrasive of course. I'm going to see what I can do with the steel punch using it in a similar manner.
As far as what I have used as a backing surface, I first did it on my cutting mat but the edges were fractured enough that the discs were unusable. I then tried a piece of oak and the results were terrible. The punch just pushed the styrene into the wood. I have been reluctant to try it on a steel surface because I fear it would quickly dull the punch, but I will give it a try.
I haven't heard back from American Model Builders yet, but I'm hoping they can do what I want for a reasonable price.
I think if the 'punch' were chucked and spinning, it wouldn;t shatter the plastic, but rather drill through it. Might be slow going. Also, how is what you have backed up? If it's basically a paper punch, there's probably not enough support. If you made a sharpened piece of the brass tubing, and used a piece of flat hard wood or metal like a small anvil, it may punch clean without cracking the plastic. You may have to resharpen the tube a few times, especially if using a metal anvil, the soft brass will quickly dull.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Dave, you could probably do it on the horizontal byy putting the dremel on a block of wood and sliding along a bench top. The drill speed is the critical factor IMO.
Hi Brent:
That is an interesting method. I would have to invest in a Dremel drill press but that wouldn't be a bad thing. I'll keep your suggestion in mind if I can't find the 6mm cover slips.
Randy:
I have the right sized steel punch, although it could probably be sharper, but I haven't been able to cut perfectly round discs because of the fracturing in the styrene at the cut line.
Thanks for the ideas.
Randy, I know that model ship builders use the method on brass sheets to make hatch covers and such. I think a little practice would make one quite proficient at it.
Might be able to use a similar method to make a punch that would work with the clear plastic, too. Good idea.
Dave, I have made little circular thingies with great success, using this method.
First take your 9/32 tube and put it in your dremel.
Run it on slow speed and sharpen the outer edge with a fine file.
Put the dremel with rod in your little dremel drill press. (if you have one)
Make a little box to hold slide cover, making sure the surface the slide sits on is really flat. Maybe use a piece of glass.
Put a drop of water along with some comet cleanser (or other abrasive)
Run the dremel (or whatever power tool you have) at the slowest speed possible while putting only the slightest downward pressure on the glass. Barely turning if possible.
If it works you should have a perfect fit for your windows. (I hope)
Edit; I forgot one thing. The little box that holds the slide. You need a block of styrene or something on top of the slide (that also sits in the box) with a hole drilled through it to hold the tube drill bit firmly in place so it doesn't wonder and snap the glass.
Dave - try Amazon (UK)
LOL.
As far as 6mm round pieces of glass not being able to be imported - wow, makes me wonder what kind of nefarious device I can construct with such things. Tiny round windows on an HO scale model are kind of the first thing that comes to mind. Real threat to security there. That's some scary stuff!
rrinkerOr maybe like most Americans can't figure out where Ontario is.
Oh, puh-lease. Ontario is just twenty miles due east of downtown LA.
Ed
Hi Randy
I did a little investigating and apparently the cover slips fall under a restriction preventing some optical materials from being shipped across the border, no doubt related to 911. I spent another 2 or 3 hours last night searching for a Canadian supplier but came up with zero.
What also bothers me is that the manufacturer BIPEE doesn't come up on a Google search. Their products do, including the 6 mm cover slips, but everything leads back to Amazon. I tried Amazon.ca and there were no results for the search for BIPEE 6 mm round cover slides. Very frustrating!
I'm hoping that American Model Builders i.e. LaserKit will get back to me with a reasonable price for acrylic windows. I am so fixated on this project that price has almost become a non-issue (please don't tell my wife!). I just spend upwards of $100 CDN for custom decals .
Oh well, I'm still really having a lot of fun with this project, and the bank balance seems to be holding its own.
Regards everyone.
Very strange, glass cover slides of all things. There must be a Canadian supplier somewhere then.
Unless they just don't like your town. Or maybe like most Americans can't figure out where Ontario is.
hon30critter Joel So close and yet so far! I have just reviewed countless listings for the BIPEE 6 mm round cover slides and none of the vendors will ship to Canada. All of them seem to want to deal through Amazon. I couldn't find anyone who would ship direct. Oh well, now that I know that they are out there I will just have to keep searching for a Canadian supplier. Again, thanks for the idea. Dave
So close and yet so far!
I have just reviewed countless listings for the BIPEE 6 mm round cover slides and none of the vendors will ship to Canada. All of them seem to want to deal through Amazon. I couldn't find anyone who would ship direct.
Oh well, now that I know that they are out there I will just have to keep searching for a Canadian supplier.
Again, thanks for the idea.
Just checked. Amazon does ship to Canada. I also checked with the usual scientific vendors I deal with and this size is not common and hard to come by, so you'll have to somehow go through Amazon if you'd like these.
Let us know what you decide.
Your project would really sparkle with all that glass bouncing back light when it goes by! (Couldn't resist, had to put in my 2 pennies)
What's wrong with going through Amazon, if it gets shipping to Canada? Or do none of them list on Amazon.ca?
Joel!
WOW! Perfect solution!
I'll look them up on Amazon right now.
Thanks a whole bunch.
hon30critter Hi Joel: I was wondering if there was something out there like what you suggest. Thanks for the idea. The problem I see is that 7mm simply will not fit into the window frames. The .25" styrene discs that I have punched out are already a very tight fit so I think that the extra .65mm would be a killer. They would work perfectly if I could mount them on the surface of the frames but unfortunately the frames have already been glued in place flush with the outside of the shell, and the window frame rings are too thick and not all the same exact thickness so mounting the coverglass on the inside wouldn't look even. Had I not installed the brass window frames at all the coverglass discs would have fit into the window openings quite nicely. However, I really wanted the brass window frames to show even though they wouldn't have been as obvious on the prototype. Yes, I'm getting pretty fussy here (perhaps 'pig headed' would be more accurate), but I do appreciate your suggestion very much. I'll keep it in mind. Thank you. Dave
I was wondering if there was something out there like what you suggest. Thanks for the idea. The problem I see is that 7mm simply will not fit into the window frames. The .25" styrene discs that I have punched out are already a very tight fit so I think that the extra .65mm would be a killer. They would work perfectly if I could mount them on the surface of the frames but unfortunately the frames have already been glued in place flush with the outside of the shell, and the window frame rings are too thick and not all the same exact thickness so mounting the coverglass on the inside wouldn't look even. Had I not installed the brass window frames at all the coverglass discs would have fit into the window openings quite nicely. However, I really wanted the brass window frames to show even though they wouldn't have been as obvious on the prototype.
Yes, I'm getting pretty fussy here (perhaps 'pig headed' would be more accurate), but I do appreciate your suggestion very much. I'll keep it in mind.
Thank you.
You're in luck. BIPEE makes round glass coverslips that are 6mm and 0.13mm thick. 6mm is 0.236 inch, so should be a perfect fit since you say 0.25 inch is just a hair too tight.
These are available on Amazon for 12 bucks for 100 pieces (sorry don't have the link, but google it).
Hi Darth:
Yes, I have seen pictures of the interior with the windows in the open position. Guy (trainnut1250) posted some pictures earlier on in the thread.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/trainnut1250/150502_3652_zpsed75exzv.jpg
I tried to model the open frames but only a couple of the frames would fit properly, and in any case they are rather difficult to to see through the open windows. If I can get satisfactory glazing then I will re-do the open window frames because I think the reflection off of the smooth glazing will show better than just the empty brass rings. I know what I did wrong and it is an easy fix.
Apparently the hooks that held the open brass frames up to the ceiling failed on a few occasions with the result that several passengers received rather nasty blows to the head as the windows fell down.