"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
richhotrain zstripe I think the second one with the doors in the center further apart, would match better for the boxcars spotted at the dock. Frank, that is the one that I like best as well. Here is what the 2-story freight house wall would look like. Rich
zstripe I think the second one with the doors in the center further apart, would match better for the boxcars spotted at the dock.
I think the second one with the doors in the center further apart, would match better for the boxcars spotted at the dock.
Frank, that is the one that I like best as well. Here is what the 2-story freight house wall would look like.
Rich
Rich,
Just a couple things to ponder? Although You are trying to replicate a building for the look of the 50's, an important fact is...the building was built in the 20's, so the window's and many other parts are going to reflect that. High arch window's were the norm, for a very good reason...they let in more Light. The school I went to and the house I lived in had almost exactly the same window's and door's had transom's that you could open to cool off your house, remember heat rises. I do like the second way....but..in my opinion, the windows are too high, less light. My reasoning also. I don't believe the second floor was for freight storage, mainly because I don't see any elevator lift house on the roof, which would contain the pully's and lift mechanism for the elevator. The one I was in did not have an elevator, the offices, were all upstairs on the second floor and used stairs to get there. That facility was not used for storage....cross dock/transload 24/7.
Be Happy, In Your Work. LOL
Frank
I agree with the observation that the prototypes windows are flatter than the DPM modulars, but I think I like the original arched windows better...just because I guess.
In the prototype, the top story walls are shorter than what is represented by the DPM walls. Just razor saw about 25% off of the bottom of the mocked up top story, which would be an easy cut with no additional seams showing. Or measure exactly if Rich wants to be that precise.
- Douglas
hon30critterWhat I was suggesting is that instead of using the two story wall panels as you have shown, use a one story wall panel but add a dock riser section to the bottom of the wall and a cornice section to the top. That will give you approximately the same height for the second story wall but it will place the windows lower in the wall. To me, that will more accurately model the prototype. It will eliminate the appearance of the second story windows being too high in the wall, which is how I see your current lay up looking.
Yeah, the proportions of the upper story to the lower don't look right. I'd remove the decorative strip of brick from the top of the lower walls, then cut the upper walls at a point about one fifth from the bottom. Reassemble them, bottom to top, with the trimmed bottom wall, the one-fifth cut-off section from the upper wall, the trimmed-off decorative strip from the bottom wall, and the shortened top wall.I haven't seen much reference to it, but are you going to model any of the single story portion? In my opinion, that will make the overall structure appear longer, even if you keep the length at nine bays, which should make it about 30" long. I don't know how much room you have for this freighthouse, but the longer you can make it, the less likely anyone will notice if the details are incorrect. I'd do it as 6'-8' long, but reduce the depth to allow for the depth of only the visible side of the sloped roof or perhaps even a foreshortened version of that roof.
hon30critterAs for the window style - I have to disagree with Doctor Wayne on this one (I will probably burn in someplace very hot for disagreeing with himSmile, Wink & Grin).
Well, at least it will be a good opportunity for us to get together.
hon30critterHere is my reasoning: The fully rounded top windows appear to the naked eye to be narrower than the partially rounded ones. The fully rounded top draws your eye to the center of the window. The partially rounded window tops allow your eye to move easily from one to the next. (Has anybody had any art lessons here?) The goal is to make the structure appear to be as long as possible so I suggest using windows which do not draw your eye into the center of each window. IMHO less curve equals wider appearance.
Hah, the rounded top draws my eye to the rounded top, although in all honesty, my eye was always drawn in the less usual direction - the interesting-looking woman rather than the supposedly good-looking one, f'rinstance. I do think that the misproportions of the upper and lower walls make them look taller, though, and the arched tops accentuate that. Your comment made me look at the prototype photo again and that's when I first noticed that those windows aren't as fully-arched as I had originally thought. Both DPM versions are, to some degree, wrong, but neither wrong enough that I would decry their use.
hon30critterRich: Always remember that it is your railroad and you can do whatever the heck you want!
You got that right, Dave, but I wish he'd just get with it before the bunch of us over-analyse this right out of his mind.
zstripe....I don't believe the second floor was for freight storage, mainly because I don't see any elevator lift house on the roof, which would contain the pully's and lift mechanism for the elevator....
You may be correct, but it may have had hydraulic elevators, which don't require lift houses. I don't know how long the two storey portion of the building might be, but that seems like an awful lot of office space.
Wayne
Wayne,
It's quite possible for the hydraulic elevator or conveyer, but the one I was in a lot, did not. The building was almost identical. The second story though, was not as long as Rich's, also in my opinion, JaBear's drawing in the very first post, best resemble's what the building looked like, in proportion to the first and second floor. The second floor could have contained, high dollar freight, like Imported clothing, which there was a lot of, straight off the ships in New York, which also has a similar freight set up like Chgo, but nearer to the docks. I left a link to that somewhere in the thread's when we were discussing Lifschultz Fast Freight, which was started in 1918, buildings are also similar.
I also would not make it so long in length as some are saying. The one I'm bashing is 36'' in length,5 1/2'' wide, that takes up a lot of real estate fast. And many doors and window's, not including vehicles, that would be on the other side. In my opinion also, box cars are cheap, compared to Ho scale trucks and trailers. LOL.
Take Care!
The prototype has a horizontal brick band in between the first and second story. The DPM modulars have that band at the top of the smaller-one story walls, so just cut 1/5th off of the bottom of the taller walls and I think the whole thing would look great.
Hold the saw at an angle so the brick part of the wall is lower than the inside part, otherwise there will be a gap between the band on the lower wall and the bottom of the top wall. Kind of like back-cutting a piece of crown moulding, if that makes sense.
Doughless The prototype has a horizontal brick band in between the first and second story. The DPM modulars have that band at the top of the smaller-one story walls, so just cut 1/5th off of the bottom of the taller walls and I think the whole thing would look great. Hold the saw at an angle so the brick part of the wall is lower than the inside part, otherwise there will be a gap between the band on the lower wall and the bottom of the top wall. Kind of like back-cutting a piece of crown moulding, if that makes sense.
I agree with You. I said that before.
And the awning, would be very close to that area, where it was cut.
Lots of additional replies since I last checked in, and I appreciate them all.
So, where are we?
1. Rounded Top of Windows.
2. Overall Length of Building.
3. Height Difference Between Stories
Regarding the windows, they seem more rounded than flat, so I am inclined to go with the round top windows.
Regarding the overall length, I do plan to model both the 1-story section and the 2-story section. The 1-story section will be 33" in length and the 2-story section will be 22" in length.
The height difference between the two stories is the real issue. From the photo of the prototype, it is clear that each story is the identical height of the other story. But with the DPM modulars, the 1st story dock section is 2 11/16 inches high. The 2-story 2nd story is 3 11/16 inches high. So, the combined height is 6 3/8 inches.
If I just use a 1-story 2nd story, the height is only 1 7/8 inches for a combined height of 4 9/16 inches.
If I add a dock riser (9/16 inches high) to the 1-story 2nd story, the combined height is 5 1/8 inches.
So, with none of these alternatives do I get two stories equal in height.
DPM does not make things easy.
Incidentally, I found out something interesting about that second story. It could be reached by an entry door from the sidewalk on the Roosevelt Road overpass
Alton Junction
Rich:
It looks like if you want to have both floors the same height you are going to have to cut an inch off the bottom of the 2 story wall sections. Getting a perfect cut along the mortor lines will be tedious indeed. Do you by any chance have an old fashioned manual miter box that is big enough to hold the wall sections? If so, you might be able to clamp a 'stop' to the bed of the miter saw so all your cuts are exactly the same. If you don't have a miter saw you might consider cutting a little bit off the desired line and filing the wall to the right height. Even more tedious!
Keep us posted. This has been a very interesting thread. Thanks JaBear, Rich and others.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I'd use a utility knife to cut the wall sections, a simple score (well, probably several) and snap procedure. Make the cut one course of bricks away from the desired line, then use a mill file to dress the edge to the mortar line. If you have a table saw and a panel blade, you could try that.
Wayne:
"...table saw and panel blade..." I smell melting plastic. Somebody get a fire extinguisher!!
I hate using my radial arm saw for delicate work, so I don't do it anymore.
To me, cutting each and every piece of DPM modulars is just one step short of outright scratch building - - - time consuming and fraught with risk of bad cuts.
My tentative plan is to buy one of the DPM kits that contains a large number of modular sections, including all of the varieties that we have been talking about.
That way, before even gluing parts together, I can temporarily assemble different combinations to see what looks best.
In spite of admonitions to the contrary, I am tempted to combine the lower story deck section with the 2-story upper section. I know that goes against the common wisdom, but doing that sure creates a more prototypical look, at least regarding vertical separation of the windows.
I don't know how flat those DPM, pieces are so don't know how what I did will work. I had to cut 2inch and three inch pieces from the dock foundations, so when butted together, they would form an almost seamless line, so the buildings would be flush against one another. They are 5 1/4 inch wide and 1/2 around perimeter to form the foundation. After taking all my measurements about three times. I settled on using my Xacto wood saw which is 5 1/2 inches long and 1 1/4 wide. I then clamped a stainless steel 6'' long ruler with miniature c-clamps in three different places, Made a homemade jig to rest it on, out of scrap 1x3'' and used the ruler as a guide to keep the cut straight. Being very careful to make the first couple of passes across the length of the cut. Then I just carefully continued to cut, all the way through, ( on certain projects and materials, I don't believe in cut and snap) letting the saw do the work. I made all the cuts I needed and matched them up and they were all great, hardly had to dress the cuts at all. But I am an exstremely patient man when it comes to things and that helps considerably. That wood saw, actually works like a plastic scriber on the backward pull, so it cuts pretty fast. I have cut Walthers brick sheet street system's the same way and they are about .050'' thick.
''Be Happy in Your Work'' LOL.
Btw: Love the smell of burnt Lexan Plastic on a 10'' table saw. It's a good thing it does melt at the cut line, for if it didn't....it would crack. I had to drill many holes on one of my controls panels made from Lexan. I was using my shop drill press at mid speed probably 700 rpm. I decided to lower the speed so I would not have to sand so much,,,Wrong, the slower speed tried to cut too deep too fast and the bit cracked the panel,after 3/4 of the holes drilled, it was trash. The melting actually lubed the cut.
Although the various individual sections of DPM Modulars come in different heights, as previously described, all of the individual sections are 2 11/16 inches wide. The sections are made of styrene plastic.
Shoot, Rich, I would make my own miter box. Piece of square #1,1x3/1x4 grade pine, two pieces of 3/4x3/4 parting stop. Glue to 1x3/1x4 use a right angle square, cut with the saw you are going to use, right through both pieces of parting stop and Your box is done.
Cody Grivno:'' So let's get started.''
LOL
zstripe I had to drill many holes on one of my controls panels made from Lexan.
There are proper drill bits with the correct cutting angle for drilling Perspex, I’ve never seen one in my life and was taught by a very experienced old-timer to get a brand new standard drill bit and dull it by very quickly drilling into the concert hanger floor before using it to drill the perspex. I’m not really into tempting fate, but it has worked out OK for me over the years.
Bear,
I don't recall ever seeing that brand in the US. That's from the UK, is it not?
Sounds like the stuff we had at the Chgo Boy's club moon's ago. Had a peculiar smell to it when cut.
I have used Lexan for my control panels. I use a hobby saw to cut it, usually but not always works.
When I drill holes in Lexan, I use a small drill bit for pilot holes, then ream it the larger opening. If you start out with a larger drill bill, the Lexan cracks into star-shaped designs which, of course, wrecks that particular piece of Lexan.
Yeah the panel had about three different size holes, it was doing fine....until I lowered the speed. I use a rat tail file, I found it to be easier, a reamer will also crack it if not careful.
I wrap a thin strip of masking tape around the reamer at the point where I want to stop reaming in order to ensure the properly sized diameter hole.
zstripe Shoot, Rich, I would make my own miter box. Piece of square #1,1x3/1x4 grade pine, two pieces of 3/4x3/4 parting stop. Glue to 1x3/1x4 use a right angle square, cut with the saw you are going to use, right through both pieces of parting stop and Your box is done. Cody Grivno:'' So let's get started.'' LOL Frank
That said, cutting so many pieces of DPM modulars is not for the faint of heart.
zstripe don't recall ever seeing that brand in the US. That's from the UK, is it not?
Guys...why are you making this difficult?
Use a razor saw or utility knife guided by a metal straight edge, like a ruler. The mortar line itself will also act as a guide for the saw.
I like to use a razor saw since it seems to remove some of the material as it cuts, as oppossed to a utility knife that pushes the material out of the way. Also, the length of a razor saw is longer than the module, meaning it won't swim on you when you are trying to cut...it will stay in the mortar groove.
Like Wayne said, they really only need to be scored, then snapped, not cut all the way through.
Rich could probably cut the bottom 10-15 rows of bricks off of the several modules he need to modify in about 15 minutes.
I use sandpaper to ensure a smooth joint. I place the paper flat on the bench, then run the bottom of the modular along the sandpaper. It keeps me from alternating a too heavy or light hand with a file or paper if I try to hand smooth the cut. Angle the modular on the sandpaper to ensure the angled backcut and a consistent brick reveal.
In the twelve (so far) days this thread has been running, you could have mailed the DPM sections to me, had them cut and re-assemble to your specifications, and mailed back to you for continuation of the project. While it makes good sense to imagineer the potential problems and devise a plan for the construction process, overthinking things can kill a project before it gets started. Time to get to work - if you run into an unexpected problem, there's lots of help and advice available, as evidenced by the six pages of discussion here. Looks like lotsa fun.
doctorwayne In the twelve (so far) days this thread has been running, you could have mailed the DPM sections to me, had them cut and re-assemble to your specifications, and mailed back to you for continuation of the project. While it makes good sense to imagineer the potential problems and devise a plan for the construction process, overthinking things can kill a project before it gets started. Time to get to work - if you run into an unexpected problem, there's lots of help and advice available, as evidenced by the six pages of discussion here. Looks like lotsa fun. Wayne
richhotrain doctorwayne In the twelve (so far) days this thread has been running, you could have mailed the DPM sections to me, had them cut and re-assemble to your specifications, and mailed back to you for continuation of the project. While it makes good sense to imagineer the potential problems and devise a plan for the construction process, overthinking things can kill a project before it gets started. Time to get to work - if you run into an unexpected problem, there's lots of help and advice available, as evidenced by the six pages of discussion here. Looks like lotsa fun. Wayne Wait a minute, you're telling me that you could have already scratch built that building for me?
Wait a minute, you're telling me that you could have already scratch built that building for me?
At least had a great head start......
Like I also said in one of my posts, I believe you're over thinking this.
Btw: I said to make Your own miter box and use the saw blade wood blade which is a razor saw xacto blade to make the guide cuts in the miter box. Store bought miter boxes, metal or wood have a wider cut line than homemade. And if it has a tendency to bind when making the cuts, just run the tooth end of the blade through regular home bar soap, instant lube, just wash when done. Old school tip. Another Btw: One control panel has 60 holes in it 4 different sizes....remember I'm a DC user.
Doughless Guys...why are you making this difficult? Use a razor saw or utility knife guided by a metal straight edge, like a ruler. The mortar line itself will also act as a guide for the saw. I like to use a razor saw since it seems to remove some of the material as it cuts, as oppossed to a utility knife that pushes the material out of the way. Also, the length of a razor saw is longer than the module, meaning it won't swim on you when you are trying to cut...it will stay in the mortar groove. Like Wayne said, they really only need to be scored, then snapped, not cut all the way through. Rich could probably cut the bottom 10-15 rows of bricks off of the several modules he need to modify in about 15 minutes.
zstripe doctorwayne While it makes good sense to imagineer the potential problems and devise a plan for the construction process, overthinking things can kill a project before it gets started. Time to get to work. Wayne Like I also said in one of my posts, I believe you're over thinking this. Frank
doctorwayne While it makes good sense to imagineer the potential problems and devise a plan for the construction process, overthinking things can kill a project before it gets started. Time to get to work. Wayne
While it makes good sense to imagineer the potential problems and devise a plan for the construction process, overthinking things can kill a project before it gets started. Time to get to work.
Without the various suggestions being made here, I would be no further along than I was before the thread was started.
So, don't get too impatient. Be cool !
richhotrain OK, I am going to try that. Here is what it should look like.
OK, I am going to try that. Here is what it should look like.