Good afternoon everybody.
I'm brand new here, and I live as far as in Italy (so, please forgive my inperfect English). After MAAANY years I'd like to resume my youth's hobby of railroad modeling.
I'd like to build an old west railroad diorama (not sure diorama be the right word...), but at local shops they told me that old west material in practice is not produced by European makers anymore, and it's almost impossible to find; so I thought of searching for it in its home, the USA.
So, please kindly address me to the most adviceable forum for my needs.
Thanks in advance, all the best to you all
TheDarkUncle alias Roberto (Roberto was already in use so I had to chose another screen name...)
Welcome aboard! A few specifics might help you here. What scale do you want to work in? are you looking for static or running models for your diorama? Do you need buildings, railroad cars, scenic details?
An HO Bachmann 4-4-0 could be the starting point on a locomotive, and there are "Old Time" kits from MDC on eBay and such. Freight or passenger trains? or mixed? The more details you provide, the better your chances are of finding help. Your English is plenty good enough, too. Dan
The European firm Kibri used to have a nice line of "Wild West" structure kits, often the "false front" type of building, with hotel and saloon and other typical structures. BCH International now brings them to the USA; I do not know about European availability.
Dave Nelson
A google search lists a number of options.
This company seems to be coming out of some sort of ownership change, but has a number of HO kits on the website.
http://www.wildwestmodels.com/
Campbell also offers some false-front western-looking structures
http://www.campbellscalemodels.com/
And there are a number of others.
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Dan, thank you.
Yes, I omitted some important details. The scale would be H0. The model would be a running one. And yes, it would include buildings and all the oher stuff thaty make a diorama realistic, but that's not ther main problem.
The type of train I'd like the most I hadn't asked myself yet, but I suppose the most realistic would be a mixed one - as I believe that it might have been the most common, though this is just my guess.
I noticed the big mobile crane in our profile, as I am working in lifting, supplying lifting gear such as rope, chains and all the other lifting gear also to mobile crane rental companies.
Thanks again,
Roberto
Thank you Dave. Kibri brand is available here too, I saw some of the western structure kits you're mentioning even in the shop I went the otehr day to get some info.
But the diorama accessories are not the main issue, they can be found or self-built (given time and patience...); is the engines and cars that are unavailable. Once it was different, when I as a boy I had a beautiful Western steam engine from Rivarossi, but now it seems that there's no demand enough anymore, so all brands discontinued such production. Of curse, that engine has gone lost in the mists of time... :-(
But the difficult in making a diorama on Old West railroad is a challenge that increases the attraction...
Thanks for the links, Cuyama; I've taken a look and they do seem promising, I'll visit those sites more deeply later on.
I made a quick search on the Internet some days ago, though I must admit that at the beginning I'd prefer to take things in my hands, and take a close look at them, before purchasing, as of now I have no experience enough to understand what to expect, specially as to engines an cars.
What is meant by "wild west"?
While we usually think that the structures in a wild west town consisted of quickly built often ramshakle false front wood buildings, many of the towns had substantial brick and/or stone buildings from fairly early dates. Viginia City Nv, Nevada City/Grass Valley, CA, Placerville, CA, Old Sacramento, CA have many preserved/restored examples. Most of these buildings date back to the mid 1850's and some to the late 1840's.
Brick/stone buildings wern't limited to these "larger" cities where they have survived. There are many long gone towns, whose locations are marked by their ruins, often just a part of a wall or pile of brick/stone.
Even outside California, any well established town would have some brick/stone buildings by the early 1880's. For instance , there are at least three brick buildings in a mid 1870s photo of Great Bend Kansas. The town was founded in 1870.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Thanks for your contribute. The buildings will be one of the latest issues in my diorama, however I'll take your info into account.
BTW, I'd like to deepen my knowledge about old west railroads in order to build up a coherent diorama, without trying to achieve perfection; which book(s) would you suggest?
Thanks beforehand,
If you are doing 1850's old time. The Mantua General 4-4-0 tender if you can find them. Remove the drive shaft for display.
For 1880's old time. Bachmann sells a 4-4-0 tender drive loco. Remove the drive shaft for display.
Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0, is early 1900's old time. Around 1910. Kind of expensive for a display.
Rich
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Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
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to the forum.
Have a look at these guys....
http://www.musketminiatures.com/
Cheers, the Bear
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Thank you very much Bear
Hello and Welcome!
I was leafing through my Walthers Sourcebook (catalog) last night and I noticed a company called Big City Hobbies sells a line of "Classic Wooden Western-style 3 Building Kits" consisting of 15 buildings in groups of 3 plus a sawmill. They look pretty good for the "Hollywood" image of the American West in the last half of the 19th Century. Despite the fancy title, they are plastic models.
Walthers is the largest Distributor of model railroading equipment and supplies in North America. They will ship internationally, but it is neither cheap nor fast. Go to their website at www.walthers.com to check product availability and pricing. Since they are a distributor, a hobby supply store near you might be able to order from them as well, and save you the shipping and customs hassles.
EDIT: I just checked Walthers for the availability of a product, and find that they have 7 hobby shops in Italy listed as carrying their products. They are listed under the "Resources" tab under "Locate a Hobby Shop". Your best option would probably be to work through one of them.
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Dear CTValleyRR, many thanks for your welcome and tips.
I've looked at Walthers' website; unfortunately none of the 7 shops listed is really close to me - the closest ones are in Milan, some 2 h drive. But I can manage to visit them, if it's worth the while.
There's a chance that by the end of October I'll go to the USA on a business trip - St. Louis and Chicago. If I go, I'll ask you guys a suggestion about good railroad modeling stores in those cities.
I started building (and need to finish) an N scale Hollywood back lot western town set. Not models of accurate buildings, but accurate models of fake Hollywood sets- false fronts with scaffolding on the back side. I have built fronts for
· Hotel
· General store
· Bank
· Cafe
· Livery stable
I really need a saloon and sheriff’s office/jail to make a complete set. I would like to post a picture if I can get the link for posting pictures to come up. I have had a hard time on the Trains site since it was updated 8 or 10 months ago, and rarely come here any more because of the frustration.
Here is Zertuche General Store, built to satirize a South Texas federal court case some 35 years over whether a business really existed or not.
I will try to post a link and hope it works--
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/548/zertuback.JPG
richg1998 If you are doing 1850's old time. The Mantua General 4-4-0 tender if you can find them. Remove the drive shaft for display. For 1880's old time. Bachmann sells a 4-4-0 tender drive loco. Remove the drive shaft for display. Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0, is early 1900's old time. Around 1910. Kind of expensive for a display.
Also you have to realize that the "wild west" may not be as west as you think. Civil War era (1860's or before) there were very few railroads west of Kansas City or El Paso. All those train robbers you read about from the "wild west" were robbing trains in Kansas, Missouri and Arkansas, not the Rocky Mountains. The western movies were made in the rockies because it made a better movie, not because it was where things happened. Most of the Western railroads were built in the 1870's-1900's. The line being built in the movie "3:10 to Yuma" was actually completed in 1879-1880. The WP wasn't built till the early 1900's.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Thank you Delusman. You're absolutely right. I must admit that I vaguely thought of places such as Colorado, probably also because years ago I rode the narrow gauge train Durango > Silverton and I immensely enjoyed the trip. However, even though I'd like to achieve a certain historic fidelity, my main goal will be to amuse myself building a diorama, so a certain flexibility will be allowed, if complete fidelity isn't possible.
Furthermore, also my concept of " Old West " is flexible. I have no idea if there are exact time boundaries for it, my idea would be some time between 1850 and 1900.
I like to start knowing more about Western trains; seaching in the Internet I found quite some books written my a certain Mr. John (not sure about the first name) H. Smith Jr., responsible for transportation sector at the Smithsonian Institute, who, ccording to comments, seem to be very valid. Do you know him/his works, would you suggest to buy them?
Last but not least, I need a manual about how to build a runnign diorama, and it seems the local market isn't offering that much, so I was thinking of buying it on the Internet as well. Which one(s) would you suggest?
all the best
You could always check eBay and find older locomotives that are out of production, you might find a good deal. Just be careful of shipping charges.
It looks like I am getting into this thread a little late...but better late than not at all.
May I suggest, for some reference to the US old west...take a look at the area here that I live in...via the internet of course. I live about 20 minutes from the comstock lode town of Virginia City in northern Nevada and just below there are the towns of Gold Hill, and Silver City. These are places that still look very much as they did in the 1860's-1870's. In 2009 the modern Virginia and Truckee Railroad officially opened service to just outside Carson City from Virginia City...a project that had taken almost 20 years to get going. The orginal V&T ended service to Virginia City in 1938.
There are some excellent online videos of this run and they show much of the surrounding areas. You may also want to do a search on the towns I mentioned.
Quite a bit of old west lore has come out of Nevada's comstock country. A one other bit of infomation that may be of interest. There are historic road markers all over this area refering to the 'Pony Express' trail.
The Nevada State Railroad museum has several original V&T locomotives...take a look at their web site as well.
Mark H
Modeling in HO...Reading and Conrail together in an alternate history.
Roberto,
I think I understand what you are looking for - structures and building you would find in a Western movie.
RD.Hobby in Germany may have what you are looking for - take a look here!
Just a few pictures of what you can get there:
Scroll down the page a little and you will find a nice selection of buildings from the Old West.
Thank you Kile. Actually, I've already done, I've purchased an old Rivarossi old west locomotive, and I kep watiching for other occasions. It's funny to purchase from some 5.000 km away something that was manufactured 200 km away from where I'm living...
Thnk you very much Mark, I'll follow your interesting tips.
All the best
Thank you Sir. I understand that you're from Germany - so, say, my neighbor. Railroad modeling is very popular in Germany, I know, and quality of models too - indeed, I think I'll base my diorama on Fleischmann matrials.
Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, you rightly understood what I meant. I took a brief look at that website and indeed those buildings seem to be very well made, unlike others that I found on the Internet. I will bring in mind when I have to buy the buildings. Unfortunately, the biggest issue seem to be the locomotive & wagons - probably I'll have to buy used stuff on the Internet.
Nice the motto about the Hamburghers. As of late, we are rustying also in Italy, as this summer is more rainy than ever.
I don´t know whereabouts you are located in beautiful Italy, but there is a minimum 700 miles distance between us - hardly a neighbor...
Years ago, I had the idea of building a post-civil war layout, but gave it up, because there is hardly a decent loco around. Rivarossi/Pocher´s "Inyo" and "Genoa" of the famous Virginia & Truckee R.R. are fairly old designs, which doubtful performance, oversized flanges (which we call pizza-cutters). Bachmann´s 4-4-0 is rather generic, which is not really a problem, but their performance is erratic at best. The 2014 releases seem to be improved, but their price has gone up dramatically. There are some decent passenger cars available from various manufacturers, but on the freight car side, the picture is pretty bleak, as most of them rather fit into the 1890´s and early 1900´s era.
Following your idea will take a lot of time shopping around in the Internet, but be aware that the sellers on "The Bay" quite often do not ship outside of the US.
Good luck and keep pictures of your layout coming - we all love pictures!
"I like to start knowing more about Western trains; seaching in the Internet I found quite some books written my a certain Mr. John (not sure about the first name) H. Smith Jr., responsible for transportation sector at the Smithsonian Institute, who, ccording to comments, seem to be very valid. Do you know him/his works, would you suggest to buy them?"
I think you mean Professor John H White Jr, who has written a number of excellent books.
I have "The History of the American Locomotive - Its Development 1830-1880" and "The American Railroad Passenger Car". The first will tell you all you need to know and more about locomotives in the era you are interested in. The second is a very large book which covers the passenger car up to the modern era. It is big and relatively expensive (by American standards). I cannot believe that anyone who bought the passenger car book could possibly ever regret it.
In case my English isn't clear to you, go and buy both books right now.
They are among the best books on the subject available.
M636C
Ulrich,
I live in Genova; you're right writing that ours can't be really called a neighborhood, but, as most other members are at least 3000 miles away...
Thanks for your notes. I'm starting understanding that the task I assigned to myself is even harder than I expected. But, as far as possible, I don't intend to give up, because a layout of Old West would be more original, and, to me, attractive than something else.
I searched the Internet for Old West material quite some times in the last days, an, even though my knowledge of the matter is anything but deep, I realized that many cars claimed to be " Old West style " look much more modern that one would expect.
It's true that some sellers on eBay don't ship outside the US, I experienced in the past with other stuff; but not them all.
At any rate, probably by the end of coming October I'll go to the States on a business trip, so I though it could be a good occasion to make some shopping, and to possibly pick up in person some stuff I might have shipped to the address of an aquaintance of mine living in he USA.
BTW, would you American guys suggest some good railway model shops in St. Louis and Chicago, the citiees I'll go to?
Thanks for everything, keep fine
PS: and yes, I'll shoot pictures of the growing layout, even though it will take months before there's something to shoot at...
M636C, yes, that's the name, Smith didn't sound right to my ears indeed, but out of my lazyness I didn't check before writing.
I'm glad that you confirm his books are excellent, that's what all comments on Amazon were saying. I'm planning to order them both and have them shipped to an address in the USA, and collect them in person by the end of October.
Thank you very much.