Leighant,
I'm writing a biography of George Parr and I came across your posing of a model of the Zertuche General Store. You are correct in writing that it was part of a federal court case.
George Parr was on trial for tax evasion in 1974 and the Zertuche General Store, which was dubbed "The Phantom Store" because it existed only on paper.
My interest is in the photo you posted of the store model. I would be interested in including it in my book with full credit to the photographer.
Your attention to this matter is appreciated.
Anthony Carrozza
acarrozza@yahoo.com
CTVAlleyRR, one of the nice expects of participating forums is to learn new English words. I didn't know " parochialism " bu it's meaning is easily understandable to Italian ears, as it stongly recalls the Italian word " parrocchia " = parish.
Thanks for everything again
Roberto
Thank you Mark for your suggestion, I will follow it.
All the best
Good afternoon Roberto,
I thought I would give you a followup to what I posted earlier. I did a google seach on Virginia City, Silver City, and the Virginia and Truckee Railroad and then clicked on images. I was taken back by the rich selection of images, all you need to do is remove the modern elements from some of the pictures.
I model the later 1970's in the mid Atlantic US so I've spent very little time looking into what is local to me now.
Mark H
Modeling in HO...Reading and Conrail together in an alternate history.
Silly me. I know darned well that what we call railroad cars are called wagons in Europe. I let parochialism get the better of me on that one.
I have a set of "Old Fashioned Passenger Cars" about 40' in length, that were made by Model Power. It doesn't look like these are made anymore. Bachmann still has some, very generic ones. Con-Cor is apparently releasing an entire line of them in the fall, which is just around the corner, so you may be in luck.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
CTValley,
thanks for your notes, and don't worry - I did't take it as a criticism at all.
Indeed, I understand that my terminology is much lacking.
You're right, I intend to make " something " with running train(s) i.e. a layout - I wrongly translated it into diorama as such a word is used in Italian too, but, indeed, it refers to a static thing - often, a war scene or something like that.
And I'm afraid that I misused also the word " wagon " as I really meant " cars " - I was mislead by the fact that in Italian the cars are called " vagoni ", so I translated by ear...
Okay, this gives me a further indication of the difficulty of the task - if I stumble on words...
Thanks again,
Roberto -- I understand you are having trouble locating the vehicles (non-railroad).
Just searching "wagon" on the Walthers site brings up 80 modes in HO scale. About 20 of them would be very appropriate to an Old West theme. Jordan Miniatures even makes an old west stagecoach, which is about as iconic as you can get. Their models are frankly difficult to assemble, but they are beautiful once completed.
Just to make sure we have out terminology straight: when you say "diorama", we English speaking types are thinking about somehting small -- usually a square meter or less -- on which nothing moves. For something with moving trains, we use the word "layout". Several of your comments have made me think that is what you are making. This is not a criticism, as your English is very good, but an attempt to help with communicating through the language barrier.
Roberto,
on the upper right corner of this page, you will find the word "Resources". You can search for hobby shops there, just click on the word.
M636C, yes, that's the name, Smith didn't sound right to my ears indeed, but out of my lazyness I didn't check before writing.
I'm glad that you confirm his books are excellent, that's what all comments on Amazon were saying. I'm planning to order them both and have them shipped to an address in the USA, and collect them in person by the end of October.
Thank you very much.
PS: and yes, I'll shoot pictures of the growing layout, even though it will take months before there's something to shoot at...
Ulrich,
I live in Genova; you're right writing that ours can't be really called a neighborhood, but, as most other members are at least 3000 miles away...
Thanks for your notes. I'm starting understanding that the task I assigned to myself is even harder than I expected. But, as far as possible, I don't intend to give up, because a layout of Old West would be more original, and, to me, attractive than something else.
I searched the Internet for Old West material quite some times in the last days, an, even though my knowledge of the matter is anything but deep, I realized that many cars claimed to be " Old West style " look much more modern that one would expect.
It's true that some sellers on eBay don't ship outside the US, I experienced in the past with other stuff; but not them all.
At any rate, probably by the end of coming October I'll go to the States on a business trip, so I though it could be a good occasion to make some shopping, and to possibly pick up in person some stuff I might have shipped to the address of an aquaintance of mine living in he USA.
BTW, would you American guys suggest some good railway model shops in St. Louis and Chicago, the citiees I'll go to?
Thanks for everything, keep fine
"I like to start knowing more about Western trains; seaching in the Internet I found quite some books written my a certain Mr. John (not sure about the first name) H. Smith Jr., responsible for transportation sector at the Smithsonian Institute, who, ccording to comments, seem to be very valid. Do you know him/his works, would you suggest to buy them?"
I think you mean Professor John H White Jr, who has written a number of excellent books.
I have "The History of the American Locomotive - Its Development 1830-1880" and "The American Railroad Passenger Car". The first will tell you all you need to know and more about locomotives in the era you are interested in. The second is a very large book which covers the passenger car up to the modern era. It is big and relatively expensive (by American standards). I cannot believe that anyone who bought the passenger car book could possibly ever regret it.
In case my English isn't clear to you, go and buy both books right now.
They are among the best books on the subject available.
M636C
I don´t know whereabouts you are located in beautiful Italy, but there is a minimum 700 miles distance between us - hardly a neighbor...
Years ago, I had the idea of building a post-civil war layout, but gave it up, because there is hardly a decent loco around. Rivarossi/Pocher´s "Inyo" and "Genoa" of the famous Virginia & Truckee R.R. are fairly old designs, which doubtful performance, oversized flanges (which we call pizza-cutters). Bachmann´s 4-4-0 is rather generic, which is not really a problem, but their performance is erratic at best. The 2014 releases seem to be improved, but their price has gone up dramatically. There are some decent passenger cars available from various manufacturers, but on the freight car side, the picture is pretty bleak, as most of them rather fit into the 1890´s and early 1900´s era.
Following your idea will take a lot of time shopping around in the Internet, but be aware that the sellers on "The Bay" quite often do not ship outside of the US.
Good luck and keep pictures of your layout coming - we all love pictures!
Thank you Sir. I understand that you're from Germany - so, say, my neighbor. Railroad modeling is very popular in Germany, I know, and quality of models too - indeed, I think I'll base my diorama on Fleischmann matrials.
Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, you rightly understood what I meant. I took a brief look at that website and indeed those buildings seem to be very well made, unlike others that I found on the Internet. I will bring in mind when I have to buy the buildings. Unfortunately, the biggest issue seem to be the locomotive & wagons - probably I'll have to buy used stuff on the Internet.
Nice the motto about the Hamburghers. As of late, we are rustying also in Italy, as this summer is more rainy than ever.
Thnk you very much Mark, I'll follow your interesting tips.
Thank you Kile. Actually, I've already done, I've purchased an old Rivarossi old west locomotive, and I kep watiching for other occasions. It's funny to purchase from some 5.000 km away something that was manufactured 200 km away from where I'm living...
I think I understand what you are looking for - structures and building you would find in a Western movie.
RD.Hobby in Germany may have what you are looking for - take a look here!
Just a few pictures of what you can get there:
Scroll down the page a little and you will find a nice selection of buildings from the Old West.
It looks like I am getting into this thread a little late...but better late than not at all.
May I suggest, for some reference to the US old west...take a look at the area here that I live in...via the internet of course. I live about 20 minutes from the comstock lode town of Virginia City in northern Nevada and just below there are the towns of Gold Hill, and Silver City. These are places that still look very much as they did in the 1860's-1870's. In 2009 the modern Virginia and Truckee Railroad officially opened service to just outside Carson City from Virginia City...a project that had taken almost 20 years to get going. The orginal V&T ended service to Virginia City in 1938.
There are some excellent online videos of this run and they show much of the surrounding areas. You may also want to do a search on the towns I mentioned.
Quite a bit of old west lore has come out of Nevada's comstock country. A one other bit of infomation that may be of interest. There are historic road markers all over this area refering to the 'Pony Express' trail.
The Nevada State Railroad museum has several original V&T locomotives...take a look at their web site as well.
You could always check eBay and find older locomotives that are out of production, you might find a good deal. Just be careful of shipping charges.
Thank you Delusman. You're absolutely right. I must admit that I vaguely thought of places such as Colorado, probably also because years ago I rode the narrow gauge train Durango > Silverton and I immensely enjoyed the trip. However, even though I'd like to achieve a certain historic fidelity, my main goal will be to amuse myself building a diorama, so a certain flexibility will be allowed, if complete fidelity isn't possible.
Furthermore, also my concept of " Old West " is flexible. I have no idea if there are exact time boundaries for it, my idea would be some time between 1850 and 1900.
I like to start knowing more about Western trains; seaching in the Internet I found quite some books written my a certain Mr. John (not sure about the first name) H. Smith Jr., responsible for transportation sector at the Smithsonian Institute, who, ccording to comments, seem to be very valid. Do you know him/his works, would you suggest to buy them?
Last but not least, I need a manual about how to build a runnign diorama, and it seems the local market isn't offering that much, so I was thinking of buying it on the Internet as well. Which one(s) would you suggest?
Thanks beforehand,
all the best
richg1998 If you are doing 1850's old time. The Mantua General 4-4-0 tender if you can find them. Remove the drive shaft for display. For 1880's old time. Bachmann sells a 4-4-0 tender drive loco. Remove the drive shaft for display. Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0, is early 1900's old time. Around 1910. Kind of expensive for a display.
If you are doing 1850's old time. The Mantua General 4-4-0 tender if you can find them. Remove the drive shaft for display.
For 1880's old time. Bachmann sells a 4-4-0 tender drive loco. Remove the drive shaft for display.
Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0, is early 1900's old time. Around 1910. Kind of expensive for a display.
Also you have to realize that the "wild west" may not be as west as you think. Civil War era (1860's or before) there were very few railroads west of Kansas City or El Paso. All those train robbers you read about from the "wild west" were robbing trains in Kansas, Missouri and Arkansas, not the Rocky Mountains. The western movies were made in the rockies because it made a better movie, not because it was where things happened. Most of the Western railroads were built in the 1870's-1900's. The line being built in the movie "3:10 to Yuma" was actually completed in 1879-1880. The WP wasn't built till the early 1900's.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I started building (and need to finish) an N scale Hollywood back lot western town set. Not models of accurate buildings, but accurate models of fake Hollywood sets- false fronts with scaffolding on the back side. I have built fronts for
· Hotel
· General store
· Bank
· Cafe
· Livery stable
I really need a saloon and sheriff’s office/jail to make a complete set. I would like to post a picture if I can get the link for posting pictures to come up. I have had a hard time on the Trains site since it was updated 8 or 10 months ago, and rarely come here any more because of the frustration.
Here is Zertuche General Store, built to satirize a South Texas federal court case some 35 years over whether a business really existed or not.
I will try to post a link and hope it works--
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/548/zertuback.JPG
Dear CTValleyRR, many thanks for your welcome and tips.
I've looked at Walthers' website; unfortunately none of the 7 shops listed is really close to me - the closest ones are in Milan, some 2 h drive. But I can manage to visit them, if it's worth the while.
There's a chance that by the end of October I'll go to the USA on a business trip - St. Louis and Chicago. If I go, I'll ask you guys a suggestion about good railroad modeling stores in those cities.
Hello and Welcome!
I was leafing through my Walthers Sourcebook (catalog) last night and I noticed a company called Big City Hobbies sells a line of "Classic Wooden Western-style 3 Building Kits" consisting of 15 buildings in groups of 3 plus a sawmill. They look pretty good for the "Hollywood" image of the American West in the last half of the 19th Century. Despite the fancy title, they are plastic models.
Walthers is the largest Distributor of model railroading equipment and supplies in North America. They will ship internationally, but it is neither cheap nor fast. Go to their website at www.walthers.com to check product availability and pricing. Since they are a distributor, a hobby supply store near you might be able to order from them as well, and save you the shipping and customs hassles.
EDIT: I just checked Walthers for the availability of a product, and find that they have 7 hobby shops in Italy listed as carrying their products. They are listed under the "Resources" tab under "Locate a Hobby Shop". Your best option would probably be to work through one of them.
Thank you very much Bear
to the forum.
Have a look at these guys....
http://www.musketminiatures.com/
Cheers, the Bear
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Thank you so much, Batman!
https://www.labellemodels.com/
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Rich
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