Fire less steam locomotives were filed with hot pressurized water from a steam plant. The tank was an insulated pressure vessel. As the loco needed steam it boiled away in the tank, producing high pressure saturated steam. These locomotives were used in industries like explosives manufacturing where an open flame would be dangerous or inside buildings where the smoke would not be welcome.
This is a diagram of how a fireless steam loco workshttp://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trainweb.org%2Foldtimetrains%2Findustrial%2Fsteam%2Ffireless_cutaway.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trainweb.org%2Foldtimetrains%2Findustrial%2Fsteam%2Fwestinghouse.htm&h=466&w=740&tbnid=ZuPRSBp-4yxP-M%3A&zoom=1&docid=BUS4ypvjz3voFM&ei=SJKMU631FZGFqgbc2YHgDw&tbm=isch&client=firefox-a&ved=0CFUQMygBMAE&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=3335&page=1&start=0&ndsp=11
And some inages of fireless locomotiveshttps://www.google.com/search?q=fireless+steam+locomotive&client=firefox-a&hs=pAq&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=PpKMU5-wDqqzsASJ44H4Cw&ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=615
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/industrial/steam/westinghouse.htm
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
A tender added to a tank engine? Yes, there's more than one precedent for it, although it was a rare occurence.
The Akron & Barberton Belt Railroad in Ohio had a branch from Barberton to Fairlawn. A swamp fire undermined the roadbed, making the line precarious. Service could continue, but the road was afraid that a derailment would possibly srtrand an expensive locomotive, since the track structure couldn't support the weight of a locomotive crane. The solution was to buy PRR class A4a 0-4-0t no. 5076 for the service. The old loco was considered to be expendable if such an emergency arose. Since the distance traveled was greater than the engine's coal bunker and water tanks could cover, an old tender was added to the engine. The saddle tank was retained. The engine was scrapped during WWII, when line improvements permitted larger, more efficient engines to be used. A photo will appear in a forthcoming book on the AC&Y (which was a part owner of the A&BB). There were other instances of this.
The idea of converting a conventional loco to become fireless (or vice versa) was probably impractical & I doubt that it was ever done-
Oh, I guess I didn't see where you settled on converting it to a cab forward. Yes, an oil burner makes more sense then.
- Douglas
Doughless C&O Fan .....but i need the tender for the decoder and speaker The question Is ~~~~Slope or Vandy ? an if it is an oil burner then i need a Vandy Oil Tender If the small bunker behind the cab is for coal, or oil, the loco does not need a tender, so the question of it being an oil or coal burner, or converted to a fireless loco, is kind of moot. What YOU need, is something to hold a decoder and speaker. How about a bobber caboose permanently mu'ed to the loco as sort of a platform for a crew man, or maybe some sort of maintanence car? Why would a railroad need these? I don't know, but, back to the original issue, why would a railroad need a tender behind a loco that has an attached bunker? An imagination can answer those questions.
C&O Fan .....but i need the tender for the decoder and speaker The question Is ~~~~Slope or Vandy ? an if it is an oil burner then i need a Vandy Oil Tender
.....but i need the tender for the decoder and speaker
The question Is ~~~~Slope or Vandy ? an if it is an oil burner then i need a Vandy Oil Tender
If the small bunker behind the cab is for coal, or oil, the loco does not need a tender, so the question of it being an oil or coal burner, or converted to a fireless loco, is kind of moot.
What YOU need, is something to hold a decoder and speaker. How about a bobber caboose permanently mu'ed to the loco as sort of a platform for a crew man, or maybe some sort of maintanence car?
Why would a railroad need these? I don't know, but, back to the original issue, why would a railroad need a tender behind a loco that has an attached bunker? An imagination can answer those questions.
All good points Doughless
But
The Bunker will become part of the cab once i add the Kemtron cab forward conversion kit and will look like this one at the bottom of the Yard Bird Page
http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=453490
so then i will need a tender
the orignal question was to see if anyone Knew if They were oil or coal burners because that would help me decide what type of tender
In the course if the thread the group thought since the orignal model was decaled For Hercules
Powder Co It made sense that this may be a Fireless Version
Since mine will be decalled for the C&O I guess the best option would be the Oil burner as carrying coal by bucket from the tender is too labor intensive
I once saw a fire car used to haul the decoder and speaker
Actually any box or tank car would do
But to me a tender makes more sense
TerryinTexas
See my Web Site Here
http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/
Gidday Terry, Just a bit of useless information, the coal was carried in two side bunkers on the foot plate of these locos.... http://www.trainweb.org/nzsteam/a_class.html http://www.trainweb.org/nzsteam/c_0-4-2.html Cheers, the Bear.
Gidday Terry, Just a bit of useless information, the coal was carried in two side bunkers on the foot plate of these locos....
http://www.trainweb.org/nzsteam/a_class.html
http://www.trainweb.org/nzsteam/c_0-4-2.html
Cheers, the Bear.
Bear those are so small I wonder if the fireman ask "One Lump or Two?"
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
gmcrail C&O Fan Yes i can see the coal bunker But my loco is different it has 2 wedge shaped Side tanks and the cab is completely inclosed on the back the only way to get coal inside would be to carry it thru the door in buckets C&O Fan, In 1972, I was the engineer at the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay, WI. I ran a little 0-4-0T saddle tanker and that was exactly how we coaled her up: with buckets through the side door. We had a ground-level coal pile, and every morning we'd load up the bunker with 5-gallon buckets of coal. She took about a ton, and the fireman got to be on the ground, loading the buckets and handing them up, unless we had some volunteers on the property, who wanted to help.
C&O Fan Yes i can see the coal bunker But my loco is different it has 2 wedge shaped Side tanks and the cab is completely inclosed on the back the only way to get coal inside would be to carry it thru the door in buckets
C&O Fan,
In 1972, I was the engineer at the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay, WI. I ran a little 0-4-0T saddle tanker and that was exactly how we coaled her up: with buckets through the side door. We had a ground-level coal pile, and every morning we'd load up the bunker with 5-gallon buckets of coal. She took about a ton, and the fireman got to be on the ground, loading the buckets and handing them up, unless we had some volunteers on the property, who wanted to help.
Interesting
How long did the hand loading take ?
a ton sounds like a lot of buckets
Given My model was decaled for the Hercules powder company I'm betting it was fireless
But since i've removed the Decal and just left the #5 I think I'll convert the tender to carry oil
C&O FanYes i can see the coal bunker But my loco is different it has 2 wedge shaped Side tanks and the cab is completely inclosed on the back the only way to get coal inside would be to carry it thru the door in buckets
---
Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
===================================
"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
Mr. Beasley, I, not too long ago, purchased two of these little Bachmann "jewels" on sale for around fifty bucks each. Have you noticed the seemingly "amazing" pulling power, considering their size and weight? On my staging yard, each one of these will pull seven or eight passenger cars! It almost seems impossible what these things will pull.....
Mike C.
C&O Fan dknelson I do not think that is a Bachmann engine but rather AHM, which came painted for the Hercules Powder Co. and some other road names. It may well be of an oil burning prototype although there is a hatch of some sort on the top of the bunker which could have accepted coal. Some of these little tank engines got their coal in buckets. But there were oil burning tank engines and perhaps at a powder company they'd be preferred over coal burning. AHM later had an 0-6-0T of a different design (rounded water saddle tank over the boiler) with a coal bunker that extended up to the roof so that it could be coaled at a coaling dock. Dave Nelson Yes you are right it was also offered by AHM and even in the Hercules Decal But this says Bachman on the bottom Yes there's a very small door/Hatch on the left side top But so small it would onlyaccept one shovel at a time If Hercules was a powder company I'm betting it was an oil burner
dknelson I do not think that is a Bachmann engine but rather AHM, which came painted for the Hercules Powder Co. and some other road names. It may well be of an oil burning prototype although there is a hatch of some sort on the top of the bunker which could have accepted coal. Some of these little tank engines got their coal in buckets. But there were oil burning tank engines and perhaps at a powder company they'd be preferred over coal burning. AHM later had an 0-6-0T of a different design (rounded water saddle tank over the boiler) with a coal bunker that extended up to the roof so that it could be coaled at a coaling dock. Dave Nelson
I do not think that is a Bachmann engine but rather AHM, which came painted for the Hercules Powder Co. and some other road names. It may well be of an oil burning prototype although there is a hatch of some sort on the top of the bunker which could have accepted coal. Some of these little tank engines got their coal in buckets. But there were oil burning tank engines and perhaps at a powder company they'd be preferred over coal burning.
AHM later had an 0-6-0T of a different design (rounded water saddle tank over the boiler) with a coal bunker that extended up to the roof so that it could be coaled at a coaling dock.
Dave Nelson
Yes you are right it was also offered by AHM and even in the Hercules Decal But this says Bachman on the bottom
Yes there's a very small door/Hatch on the left side top But so small it would onlyaccept one shovel at a time
If Hercules was a powder company I'm betting it was an oil burner
According to these two links, it was fireless which makes sense at a powder company.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/srchThumbs.aspx?srch=fireless&Page=2
http://www.rgusrail.com/msbhs300.html
I have seen a couple pictures of fireless locos that had what looks like a smoke stack. Probably a converted coal or oil burner.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
richg1998 Snip
Snip
This is where I got a few parts but he seems to be only ebay now. Kind of disappointing.
I found diagrams of a bash for this made many years ago using a 0-4-0T.
http://yardbirdtrains.com/YB-Information-examinfo-mantua.htm
[/quote][quote user="richg1998"]
Actually Kemtron Still sells them
They are not listed on the site but are listed in their parts catalog
according to their president who today told me the Part#
ACY Yes, I know Hercules was a real company. My question was whether or not that model represented an actual loco owned by Hercules.
Yes, I know Hercules was a real company. My question was whether or not that model represented an actual loco owned by Hercules.
Not that i found
They did have a fireless 0-4-0
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/Locopicture.aspx?id=108015
and 2 Plymouth Propane powered switchers but i could not find an 0-6-0
C&O Fan Your model locomotive looks different from the current Bachmann Porter 0-6-0T http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=258_276_915&products_id=5534 http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=5534 Your photo doesn't show the rear of the cab, but the current Bachmann Porter side tank does have a very small bunker for coal, similar to the current saddle tank. Your model has subtlely different side tanks, is driven on the rear driver while the current model is driven on the centre driver and the style and arrangement of domes is different. It may be an earlier Bachmann product. More recent models are more prototypically accurate. M636C
Your model locomotive looks different from the current Bachmann Porter 0-6-0T
http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=258_276_915&products_id=5534
http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=5534
Your photo doesn't show the rear of the cab, but the current Bachmann Porter side tank does have a very small bunker for coal, similar to the current saddle tank.
Your model has subtlely different side tanks, is driven on the rear driver while the current model is driven on the centre driver and the style and arrangement of domes is different.
It may be an earlier Bachmann product. More recent models are more prototypically accurate.
M636C
Yes its atleast 20 years old Here's a photo of the back and as you can see there is no Coal bunker or Door even outlined on the back
It was orignally labeled "Hercules"
May be just a lack of attention to detail By Bachman
">
I plan on making a cab forward out of this and have already wired it for DCC
I'm currently using a Slope tender that i've added a porch with railings And a TCS 6 pin plug that runs under the porch into the tender
But then got to thinking i should be using a Vandy Tender modified to carry oil
if in fact this doesn't use coal
I plan on using a Kemtron Brass Conversion Cab Plate To make the cab forward
[/quote]
Many fireless locos out there, all in brass at a min. of $400+, thats the only reason why I don't have one!
You could probably make a reasonable model of a fireless loco simply by removing the stack and the tender, as neither are needed (and it wouldn't require saddle tanks or its own coal pocket or oil bunker, either).
Many of them had what appeared to be an overly fat boiler, but it was merely a high pressure storage tank for steam - supplied from a stationary steam plant.
There are some photos here: https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CFIQFjAK&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.northeast.railfan.net%2Fsteam21.html&ei=WhuFU-bKNYaP8gHugoG4Aw&usg=AFQjCNHPApG3TtF4rG7Xuv3bzYGa5zqsbg&sig2=13GstNw2j5QUiKx3MCQA0g&bvm=bv.67720277,d.b2U
Wayne
C&O Fan richg1998 C&O Fan Were these supposed to be models of oil burners since they had no tenders for coal ? If so was one tank for water and the other for oil ? TIA Google it. You will come up with many, many examples and links to store in Favorites. Rich I did about 2 hours of Search And found lots of models but nothing that told me the difference between oil and coal burners Hence the question posted here
richg1998 C&O Fan Were these supposed to be models of oil burners since they had no tenders for coal ? If so was one tank for water and the other for oil ? TIA Google it. You will come up with many, many examples and links to store in Favorites. Rich
C&O Fan Were these supposed to be models of oil burners since they had no tenders for coal ? If so was one tank for water and the other for oil ? TIA
Were these supposed to be models of oil burners since they had no tenders for coal ?
If so was one tank for water and the other for oil ?
TIA
Google it. You will come up with many, many examples and links to store in Favorites.
I did about 2 hours of Search And found lots of models but nothing that told me the difference between oil and coal burners
Hence the question posted here
Cannot agree. After ten minutess found quite a few. A lot depends on how you ask the question.
ACY "If Hercules was a powder company, I'm betting it was an oil burner." Actually, I'm betting the Hercules lettering was made up by some marketing guy, and the prototype loco had nothing to do with Hercules in real life. A fireless engine would probably have been a more likely choice for an engine that operated near the production area of an explosives plant. Now, here's a question: Why doesn't some manufacturer make a model of a fireless steam loco?
"If Hercules was a powder company, I'm betting it was an oil burner."
Actually, I'm betting the Hercules lettering was made up by some marketing guy, and the prototype loco had nothing to do with Hercules in real life. A fireless engine would probably have been a more likely choice for an engine that operated near the production area of an explosives plant.
Now, here's a question: Why doesn't some manufacturer make a model of a fireless steam loco?
It is a real company
http://scripophily.net/hepocode1.html
And that logo was on the side of my loco very small with large white letters Spelling Hercules
But you have a great question About a model of a fireless steam loco?
This is what i'm going for Rich you have a nice lookin model there
In the olden days you could buy MDC / Roundhouse tenders as separate kits. I know at least one of them (the small vanderbilt) could be made to carry coal or oil, as it came with a cover piece over the coal bin area. I wouldn't be surprised if some of their other tenders had something similar. Might be able to find one on ebay or a local RR fleamarket.
BTW steam engines need quite a bit more water than fuel. In a typical steam loco tender, the coal or oil is only about 1/4th or 1/3rd of the tender, the rest is water.
My road had a need for a small loco but running though a wooded area that tended to be dry. so a 0-6-0T was turned and converted into a 2-6-0, oil burner with an old short Vandy tender.The front headlight was left in place.
Decent size air pump added.
Tsunami sound.
C&O FanThe question Is ~~~~Slope or Vandy ? an if it is an oil burner then i need a Vandy Oil Tender
If you like the slope-back tender, you can build an oil bunker.
Ed
That looks like a european engine and the coal would enter in that little hatch on top of the back if it is the one I am thinking about.
BRAKIE What I see on that 0-6-0T is a oil bunker-see the square tank behind the cab? Notice the two doors on top of the tank. Your tender isn't needed.
What I see on that 0-6-0T is a oil bunker-see the square tank behind the cab? Notice the two doors on top of the tank.
Your tender isn't needed.
Kinda what i thought Too but i need the tender for the decoder and speaker