mlehman tin can I do not agree with the business strategy that does not leave room for inventory on shelves. I firmly believe that in order to capture new business (bring newbies into the hobby) you have to have inventory that they want to buy. Nothing is worse that going to a hobby shop and asking for a particular engine in a particular road; only to find that it hasn't been produced for years, and probably won't be produced for a number of years. This offers up one of the most misleading beliefs about the change in manufacturing in the last 50 years brought about be the globalized economic system. BTW, before we get too far down this path, why should we expect model trains to be an exception to the same forces driving change in the rest of the economy. Sure, our layouts are an imaginary world, but why do so many people believe the economics of making models also exists in a fantasy world immune from the rest of the economy? It doesn't. Back to the specifics of this issue. No one prohibits that hobby shop from buying a model for stock. Nothing. Any shop that wants to stock that model can do so by simply ordering it. Just like you or me, if it wants to stock that model, there's a good opportunity to do that. Why blame the vendor? They want to sell what they've made and make more stuff after that. It makes no sense to fill a warehouse with stuff that might sell some day. If it was your business, your accountant would tell you you're a fool, get a grip, if that was a major part of your business plan. Yes, stuff isn't stocked for years and years. Buy it now if it appeals. If not, there will be something else later on. For those slow on the draw, there's always ebay. And, yes, your hobby shop can choose -- or not -- to stock virtually anything. But they have to pic their choices carefully. They don't want a shop full of stuff that's not selling either. But the stock levels they carry are strictly their own choice if you see barren shelves.
tin can I do not agree with the business strategy that does not leave room for inventory on shelves. I firmly believe that in order to capture new business (bring newbies into the hobby) you have to have inventory that they want to buy. Nothing is worse that going to a hobby shop and asking for a particular engine in a particular road; only to find that it hasn't been produced for years, and probably won't be produced for a number of years.
This offers up one of the most misleading beliefs about the change in manufacturing in the last 50 years brought about be the globalized economic system.
BTW, before we get too far down this path, why should we expect model trains to be an exception to the same forces driving change in the rest of the economy. Sure, our layouts are an imaginary world, but why do so many people believe the economics of making models also exists in a fantasy world immune from the rest of the economy? It doesn't.
Back to the specifics of this issue. No one prohibits that hobby shop from buying a model for stock. Nothing. Any shop that wants to stock that model can do so by simply ordering it. Just like you or me, if it wants to stock that model, there's a good opportunity to do that.
Why blame the vendor? They want to sell what they've made and make more stuff after that. It makes no sense to fill a warehouse with stuff that might sell some day. If it was your business, your accountant would tell you you're a fool, get a grip, if that was a major part of your business plan. Yes, stuff isn't stocked for years and years. Buy it now if it appeals. If not, there will be something else later on. For those slow on the draw, there's always ebay.
And, yes, your hobby shop can choose -- or not -- to stock virtually anything. But they have to pic their choices carefully. They don't want a shop full of stuff that's not selling either. But the stock levels they carry are strictly their own choice if you see barren shelves.
MisterBeasleyThis is a hobby, not a necessity.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
mlehmanBack to the specifics of this issue. No one prohibits that hobby shop from buying a model for stock. Nothing. Any shop that wants to stock that model can do so by simply ordering it. Just like you or me, if it wants to stock that model, there's a good opportunity to do that.
That they can..
But,here lays the trap every small mom and pop shop faces..
Do they buy stock and sell at full MSRP or 10% off knowing full well that on line stores can order bulk shipments and sell for far less?
I'm not sure if I would care to tie up my limited business funds on the high hopes a customer will buy that engine or car.I would even sweat the preorders since the customer can refuse deliverly for any or no reason at all.
It seems to me the playing field is slanted toward the bigger on line shops that has the per capitol to buy bulk instead of a measly case or perhaps less of preorders.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
doctorwayne Burlington Northern #24 eaglescout Looks like us real modelers will be doing more paint stripping and repainting for our lines; adding details to older models and making do with train show and Ebay purchases. Not to detract from the topic but what is a real modeler? having to paint locos and stuff for the SP&S doesn't make me anymore of a modeler than someone who can buy the stuff or gets it painted.......... I respectfully take issue with your comment, Gary, as I'm a bit of a "rivet counter" when it comes to semantics. My Webster Universal Dictionary defines a modeller as one who builds models, not as one who purchases a model or hires someone else to do the modelling. To be interested in, or to own models does not constitute modelling. That said, eaglescout's inclusion of the adjective "real" could be interpreted to denigrate those who do not build models, but I don't think that was his intention, nor do I think that "modellers" are superior to non-modellers. We're all interested in the same general stuff, but each in our own manner. Wayne
Burlington Northern #24 eaglescout Looks like us real modelers will be doing more paint stripping and repainting for our lines; adding details to older models and making do with train show and Ebay purchases. Not to detract from the topic but what is a real modeler? having to paint locos and stuff for the SP&S doesn't make me anymore of a modeler than someone who can buy the stuff or gets it painted..........
eaglescout
Not to detract from the topic but what is a real modeler? having to paint locos and stuff for the SP&S doesn't make me anymore of a modeler than someone who can buy the stuff or gets it painted..........
I respectfully take issue with your comment, Gary, as I'm a bit of a "rivet counter" when it comes to semantics. My Webster Universal Dictionary defines a modeller as one who builds models, not as one who purchases a model or hires someone else to do the modelling. To be interested in, or to own models does not constitute modelling. That said, eaglescout's inclusion of the adjective "real" could be interpreted to denigrate those who do not build models, but I don't think that was his intention, nor do I think that "modellers" are superior to non-modellers. We're all interested in the same general stuff, but each in our own manner.
Wayne
As for the building of models, give me some time and I'll start making SP&S passenger cars 1 by 1. baggage cars first. Wish me luck! I've done aircraft models, so by the dictionary definition aren't we all modelers? everyone has done something involving the making of a model.
Mr. B I agree with you.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
tin canI do not agree with the business strategy that does not leave room for inventory on shelves. I firmly believe that in order to capture new business (bring newbies into the hobby) you have to have inventory that they want to buy. Nothing is worse that going to a hobby shop and asking for a particular engine in a particular road; only to find that it hasn't been produced for years, and probably won't be produced for a number of years.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Just to comment on a comment to my original posting, recall that Model Power gave as a reason for shutting down that their bank would no longer lend to an outfit that wanted to follow the "inventory on the shelves" business model.
Just to increase (?) the Memorial Day weekend joy, I just received this from another fine hobby shop, Green River in Geneseo IL: there is about to be a large (15% - 20%) price increase on Evergreen products, as well as Walthers Trainline.
Dave Nelson
doctorwayne responded: My Webster Universal Dictionary defines a modeller as one who builds models, not as one who purchases a model or hires someone else to do the modelling.
My Webster Universal Dictionary defines a modeller as one who builds models, not as one who purchases a model or hires someone else to do the modelling.
And I, to offer a third perspective, am more inclusive. I model a railroad. I put a lot of time into my structures, and literally put details into my structures, and I spend many happy hours doing scenery, laying track and wiring it all up to get the capabilities and effects I want. I build and sometimes repaint rolling stock, too. But, I buy my locomotives ready-to-run, and I don't hand-lay my track, either. I do lots of modeling, but I've got neither the time nor the inclination to build every component of my layout. I don't think that make me any less of a modeler.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
cedarwoodron wrote: Just a thought...how would that impact a close-out discounter like Train World, where they pick up some of this over-run stock and discount it out to the public?
Just a thought...how would that impact a close-out discounter like Train World, where they pick up some of this over-run stock and discount it out to the public?
Trainworld does pick up some overstock, I'm sure, but at the same time they are part of the first-run and probably even the pre-order market. They buy stuff from all the big manufacturers, and can negotiate good prices before an item even hits the shelves. I've looked on their web site, and I occasionally see "expected delivery" dates months out, so it's not all overstock with them.
I ordered a U28B from my LHS. This wasn't a "pre-order," strictly, because the item was announced and had a ship date, which, of course, slipped. When he gave me the price, I was shocked. He beat Trainworld's price, and not just by a couple of dollars.
Trainworld contracted with LL for a run of subway cars. they were only available at Trainworld. They sold out in a hurry, and then LL made them available to all distributers. Well and good. Then Walthers bought out LL, and while subway cars seemed to be in the offing for a while, they seem no longer to be available anywhere.
Probbly W/LL owns the tooling for those cars and so those who as want more of them are stuck.
I surely hope that Trainworld will contract with Bachmann to make more subway cars, perhaps the R-62s, but the problem may lie in the licensing for HO production. NYCT is pretty tight about licensing their stuff.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Bachmann seems to be resisting the whole pre-order business model. I thinks it's smart business on their part to have product avaibable when their competitiors are forcing customers to pre-order. It aso helps that Bachmann owns their own factories and doesn't contract outside manufacturers.
Perhaps a few others will realize that having product available might just give them a leg-up on the competition.
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.
www.prr-nscale.blogspot.com
I don't understand the comment about overstock, that no body is buying product that wasn't preorded. It seems more a case of no body can get any product because it's not on the shelves to buy. If so much overstock was sitting on shelves, then there wouldn't be so many threads here from people who can't get product. I haven't bought a new locomotive in years because I can't find one. Even tried the pre order thing and even though they held my money for months, they didn't even produce enough to cover the pre orders.
eaglescoutLooks like us real modelers will be doing more paint stripping and repainting for our lines; adding details to older models and making do with train show and Ebay purchases.
On topic- Well I don't see myself buying much more of anything beyond the stuff I need/want. it's a bummer that the economics of the real world are having such a poor effect on model railroading and hobbies in general. The upside is that I can go to more trainshows now that I'm in a modular group, my haul from the trainshow in March was pretty awesome. It's something to look forwards to.
Mark R. They will always be available .... on ebay .... for a much inflated price ! Play now or pay later. Mark.
They will always be available .... on ebay .... for a much inflated price !
Play now or pay later.
Mark.
And with Athearn's on going QA/QC issues who wants to risk preordering?
I know I won't.
There's still lots of older LL P2K,BB,yellow and red box Atlas and Kato locomotives to be had and of course there's the use market..
There's Bachmann DCC on Board locomotives that comes cheap and is two steps above the older BB engines.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Hardly surprising. When production is by a Chinese company, the American "manufacturer" is really just a distributor. And distributors are slowly being squeezed. The future is large online hobby shops buying large quantities from the manufacturer. The middlemen, i.e. distributors, go away.
The new shopping strategies are:
Buy it when you first see it.
Pre-order and hope.
Ebay.
Paul
I do not agree with the business strategy that does not leave room for inventory on shelves. I firmly believe that in order to capture new business (bring newbies into the hobby) you have to have inventory that they want to buy. Nothing is worse that going to a hobby shop and asking for a particular engine in a particular road; only to find that it hasn't been produced for years, and probably won't be produced for a number of years.
Invariably, when running trains on our modular layout for the public; someone will comment on a particular engine and note to get one of those. And you have to respond; they don't make those anymore...
Cedarwoodron
Athearn will discover that, just like Atlas, when you don't have any products to sell, you don't sell any products.
There are other manufacturers. I'm happier now with Accurail, Bowser and Tichy models than I ever was with Athearn blue-box.
This is a hobby, not a necessity. It's all what they call "discretionary spending." Companies need to work a little harder to attract customers, and Athearn/Horizon isn't getting that.
I know during the past few years with Atlas and Kato. They're trimming down because of overstock structures and railroad equipment (track, engines, etc). Because nobody is buying them.
I also read that it's going to continue like that in the future years to come. When you think about it. It sucks when you have no money to buy them or pre-order them. We just have to live with it.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
From Enginehouse Services, an excellent hobby shop in Green Bay WI (run by a first rate modeler himself):
We have received the Athearn shipment we mentioned in our last newsletter. We still have some items left, but they are going fast, especially on our online store, since the majority of them are sold out at Horizon Hobby, the exclusive Atheran distributor. After talking to our sales rep we should see even tighter supplies in the future since Athearn has now trimmed their overruns drastically like the other manufacturers. It appears that is the trend and it is here to stay. We have been stating this phenomenon in our past newsletters and it is now here, so if you have interest in any of the preorders it is best you let us know when we can order it otherwise you take the risk of not getting them when they are released.