Blackstone HOn3 for me. I know there're tons of older narrow gauge brass locomotives out there, but I don't want to mess with it. And what Blackstone's doing is so far above the Tyco/LifeLike/Model Power I had in my youth 30 years ago that it seems like I'm in a different hobby.
I would say Athearn is my top choice. Granted the only other brand I have is Life-Like. One thing about Athearn is that they have the scale knuckle couplers, so if you do use different brands, you might want to change the couplers. The cool thing about the Athearn couplers is that they are a rust color, so they look weathered.
Kato and Atlas in HO scale.
Jim
Hi.
The following are my choices for HO DCC:
Walthers Proto 2000
BLI Paragon2
MTH Proto Sound 3
All the best.
Reinhard
Joe F
Atlas,Life Like P2K and Athearn BB and RTR.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I like SHS. My American Models GG1 runs very well also.
Enjoy
Paul
I would actually vote on Atlas HO and Proto 2000. Atlas because of their smooth paint, great details, and good quality control. Proto 2000 because of their unique locomotives and GREAT details. 2nd would be Athearn Genesis but their paint isn't as "smooth" and "flowing." Also, their quality control isn't as good.
-Khang Lu, University of Minnesota Railroad Club
Rapido FP9a. Turn off the sound and it runs so quiet you can't even hear it. Very accureately detailed. My nicest engine.
From best to least (downward) DC only
Athearn BB
Bowser
Athearn RTR
Proto/Bachmann-tied
Atlas (Roco)
Kato
Mark H
Modeling in HO...Reading and Conrail together in an alternate history.
Best is hard. Best what? Best detail, best pulling, best (low maintenance), best for the $, best paint, best slow speed, best high speed, ..... Each list is different.
In HO scale Atlas always seems to come out on top in several of those lists. In N-scale it seems to be Kato.
Best detail (excluding brass): Trix, Atlas Master, Genesis (F units), Proto-2000 (newer walthers ones), InterMontain, Kato, BLI, Genesis other units,...
Best value: Bachman Spectrum, Proto-1000, IHC/Mehano Steamers, old Athearn BB, ...
Best pullers: Stewart/Kato, Stewart/Buehler, Bowser Steam, Hobby Town, ...
Best switchers: Atlas Yellow box Kato drive, Atlas Classic china drive, Atlas Master,
Best imitation of a coffee grinder - Hobby Town,
Best candidate for the trash can - Life Like, Model Power, old AHM, regular brand Bachmann, ...
Best sound - totally depends on the listener's ears.....
Texas Zepher Best is hard. Best what? Best detail, best pulling, best (low maintenance), best for the $, best paint, best slow speed, best high speed, ..... Each list is different. In HO scale Atlas always seems to come out on top in several of those lists. In N-scale it seems to be Kato. Best detail (excluding brass): Trix, Atlas Master, Genesis (F units), Proto-2000 (newer walthers ones), InterMontain, Kato, BLI, Genesis other units,... Best value: Bachman Spectrum, Proto-1000, IHC/Mehano Steamers, old Athearn BB, ... Best pullers: Stewart/Kato, Stewart/Buehler, Bowser Steam, Hobby Town, ... Best switchers: Atlas Yellow box Kato drive, Atlas Classic china drive, Atlas Master, Best imitation of a coffee grinder - Hobby Town, Best candidate for the trash can - Life Like, Model Power, old AHM, regular brand Bachmann, ... Best sound - totally depends on the listener's ears.....
I guess I could've been a little more specific. I was thinking best running but you seem to have covered every aspect.
Michael
Never attempt anything you don't want to explain to the EMT
Michael6792I guess I could've been a little more specific. I was thinking best running but you seem to have covered every aspect.
Trix, Atlas/Kato, Kato, Stewart/Kato, Atlas Master, Genesis current run not the old ones, Intermountain, Proto-2000, ...
Normally I'd say Kato but I now own two amazing none atlas or Kato made N scale models.
My favorite unit SP&S E7A #750 by Broadway limited for Lowell smith signature series models, and this new Intermountain F3A NP #5606 that I bought is killer detailed and smooth as silk when she runs, and quieter than a ninja.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
Texas ZepherBest candidate for the trash can - Life Like,
If you'r going to be tossing any LL P2K let me know and I send you my address..
Walthers just jack the price on the older P2K DC models..
We should add Atlas Trainman to the list since they share the same drives as Atlas Master and Classic.
I can only vote for what I have bcause that is all that I know about.
First, steam engines.
BLI tops the list for detail and performance.
Proto Heritage is a close second.
Bachmann Spectrum, a very, very distant third - - - too many issues.
Now, for my diesels.
Atlas is my most reliable by far.
A close second is BLI Paragon, but I can only vouch for passenger E-units.
Intermountain would be third.
BLI Blueline is fourth, would be higher except for the dual decoders for motion and sound.
Proto 2000 is fifth, would be much higher except for that cracked axle gear problem.
Athearn Genesis is a beautifully detailed loco fraught with problems - - - too numerous to mention here.
Athearn RTR is at the bottom of my list.
Rich
Alton Junction
Like several others here I can only speak for the locos I have & there are currently 8 in my fleet, all in HO.
My favorites by far are my two Atlas/Kato GP-7's. Dependable, trouble free, smooth, quiet runners. Nice detail & I've yet to max them out on how big a consist they can pull.
Second would be my Proto 2000 Baldwin BL-2. Again, quiet, smooth & reliable.
My Bachmann Spectrum GE 44 Tonner would be a close third.
Carl
"I could never belong to any club that would have me as a member."
It depends what you define as "best".
Best operating:
Best detailing:
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Michael6792What locomotive brand do you like the best. As for HO scale I've owned Life Like, Bachmann, AHM, TYCO and Athearn. Athearn tops the list for me in HO. I know there are better locos out there but I've never tried on.
It sounds like you have only tried the cheap, lower quality HO diesels, with Athearn being the best of the lot.
Best HO diesels of the past 10 - 15 years have always included Atlas and KATO mainly, and in the past 10 or so years Athearn Genesis has been added, and Athearn has added higher quality RTR diesels since then. There are also Proto 2000, which is Lifelikes premium line intoduced in the 90's and taken over by Walthers in the last 10 years. There is Broaway Limited and MTH, but I can't speak for them - don't own any.
Be aware that Athearns RTR vary from basic but nice looking to quite detailed and good runners. I own a bunch of SD45's which come with prototypical details and run smooth as KATO's. The SD40T-2's and SD45T-2's are also very nice and lots of prototypical details.
cheers, Jim
Athearn Genesis is a beautifully detailed loco fraught with problems - - - too numerous to mention here. Athearn RTR is at the bottom of my list. Rich
When did you buy them? I know the early F7's had issues with the trucks so they didn't run well unless you removed the wheels and deepened the slots the axles are mounted in. I've heard of issues with some of the other earlier Genesis like the SD70 and SD45-2's. Later runs of most of the Genesis models, especially after 2004/2005 are generally very good. I have tested my recent GP9's and they run very smooth and are gorgeous.
So to the OP, don't take one persons experiences as gospel. Like any product, some go through some growning pains but you can't generalize that the whole line is "fraught with problems" - that simply isn't true. Early units some yes, but most of the Genesis line for the past 8-9 years have been quite good.
Athearn RTR is at the top of my list. My D&RGW and Southern Pacific SD45's have prototypical details such as the nose mounted signal light and snow plow (L - shaped windshield for SP), and runs like a KATO. My D&RGW and SP SD40T-2's are gorgeous and well detailed and run well too. They are nearly Genesis quality in detail AND have DCC plugs if you want to go DCC some day.
Everyone needs to keep in mind the RTR Athearn line has basic models which cost less, like the old blue box based F7, and the GP40-2, GP35, etc. Then they have really upgraded the SD45, SD40T-2, SD40-2 etc. I really like what Athearn has done with much or there RTR line, much of it is really nice.
Cheers, Jim
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
BEST Locomotive? I have no clue. I have never owned one of those. LION tends to buy cheap and put up with what him has. Kato is good, the Atlas/Kato were great, but then I thought the Riverossi GG1s were great, and in their day, I suppos they were. Today they are part of a static display.
Walthers/Life-LLike Proto 1000 subway cars are not the worlds best performers, but they are all I can afford in the world of subway cars. They run well enough and that is good enough.
Perfect is more expensive than any LION I know can afford.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Here they are in order,Kato"please make some more modern units" Athearn Genesis,Atlas,Intermountain,Athearn RTR,Proto 2000,BLI,MTH.
Russell
I'd re-ordered them as follows for HO.
Athearn GenesisKatoAtlasIntermountainAthearn RTRProto 2000BLIMTH
KATO used to be #1, but they have really dropped back in terms of production. Lots of people have complained about the quality of the paint jobs in the past and the hand rails being too thick. Mostly they only make modern wide cabs now. Now and then they offer an older diesel like the F40PH or something. Generally KATO's have always been tops for smooth running characteristicis but they have been slow to keep up with the state-of-the-art. Other companies like Atlas and Athearn Genesis have passed KATO by. KATO has made very little for pre-1990's modelers in the past 5 or so years.
Athearn Genesis has taken the lead, generally announcing about 3 new diesels a year and following many prototype specific details - they are pricey but you get what you pay for.
Atlas has always been in the top one or two spots for quality, but Atlas has struggled to recover from the recession and loss of chinese factory capacity, so IMO, they have dropped down a bit from their former glory. Hopefully they will recover in the next year or two.
Intermountain has produced a lot of diesels. I've never owned any but read a great deal of comments by those on forums who have bought them. They have produced SD40-2's and Canadian versions, as well as some wide cab modern diesels and more recently some GP's. Some have complained about the quality of the Intermountain diesels, and the steam Cab Forwards have have some major issues over the 1st and 2nd runs.
As mentioned, Athearn RTR varies from the old F7's are based on the old Athearn/Globe crude shell with a nice paint job and solid bb mechanism - not DCC ready - to highly detailed DCC models like the SD45T-2 and SD40-2. They vary in detail and features - some being very basic like the F7, GP40-2, GP35, etc. too very detailed and DCC ready like the SD45, SD40-2, SD45T-2, SD40T-2.
Proto 2000 came in the 1990's from Lifelike. They were as detailed or more detailed than most HO diesels in the 1990's and copied the Athearn blue box mechanism in the early models even to the coupler mounts (not so good). Walthers gook over around 10 or so years ago, and have ugraded older models and offered some newer ones like the F7 and F3. I own a bunch of the 90's Proto 2000 GP30's, SD7's and SD9's and an ABBA set of F7's from the Walthers era - nice looking loco's - haven't had a chance to run them much. People who have had the LL P2K versions a long time have complained the mechansims haven't held up very well. I can't can't comment on the BLI/MTH - they've never offered anything I need yet.
It seems evident how people order the brands has a great deal to do with their interests. Those who put Athearn RTR at the bottom of the list are probably not Southern Pacific or Rio Grande fans as the RTR line offers some EXCELLENT engines for SP and D&RGW fans. So keep that in mind.
I'm strictly an HO man.
In the old DC days, my vote for diesels would go to Atlas, hands down. Great runners. Never had a problem with one. Atlas seems to always be playing catch up as far as their DCC offerings. The few DCC Atlas engines I have came DCC ready. I don't have any Atlas engines with factory decoders and sound.
Most of my fleet is either Proto 2000 or BLI Paragon and I have steam and diesel from both. Walthers narrowly gets my vote as #1. BLI would probably have gotten my vote but they have quality control issues. I've had way too many problems than one should expect from a high end locomotive, both electronic and mechanical. Call me old fashioned but I think when you pay a premium price, you have a right to expect quality in return and I just don't think I get that consistently from BLI.
I have only a few Athearn DCC, but I've not been impressed with them. Not great runners. Sound is not great either.
jecorbett I'm strictly an HO man. I have only a few Athearn DCC, but I've not been impressed with them. Not great runners. Sound is not great either.
Not sure which you have owned then. My two Genesis GP9 run very smooth and the RTR SD45's that I've run, run as good as KATO's.
When people say they aren't impressed with Athearn, they need to say which ones so people don't get the impression that the whole brand is crap, because that is far from the truth. Like any brand, they've had a few duds, and the earlier days QAQC problems were still fairly prevelant. In the last 5-8 years of production, things have steadily improved, especially in the running department.
riogrande5761 jecorbett I'm strictly an HO man. I have only a few Athearn DCC, but I've not been impressed with them. Not great runners. Sound is not great either. Not sure which you have owned then. My two Genesis GP9 run very smooth and the RTR SD45's that I've run, run as good as KATO's. When people say they aren't impressed with Athearn, they need to say which ones so people don't get the impression that the whole brand is crap, because that is far from the truth. Like any brand, they've had a few duds, and the earlier days QAQC problems were still fairly prevelant. In the last 5-8 years of production, things have steadily improved, especially in the running department.
Until a couple of weeks ago, I would have enthusiastically endorsed Proto engines from Walthers. I've got quite a fleet of them, and I like them all. But, the most recent one, on "advance order" for the better part of a year and delayed 2 or three time beyond its original date, has been a disappointment. The engine looks fine and mostly runs well, but when I took it from the box several parts fell off the shell. One truck sideframe came with broken pins, so it would not stay on. The front headlight goes back and forth from full brightness to dim randomly, and I'm suspicious that one of the trucks isn't picking up power on one side. Finally, the front coupler seems too short, so that the pilot hits the coupler attached to rolling stock and causes derailments.
This is just poor quality control. I hope they get their act together, because there is too much of that going around already.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley This is just poor quality control. I hope they get their act together, because there is too much of that going around already.
This is my single biggest gripe with this hobby in general. It's one thing when you buy economy line and don't get a great product. The problem is that it is all too common even with the high end stuff. When you buy top of the line, you expect quality in return. I think one reason this problem exists is that we as consumers are too willing accept this as the norm. If I buy an appliance or a power tool and it has a flaw in it right out of the box, it's going back in the box and back to the store for a refund or replacement. But for some reason in this hobby, we feel it is up to us to tweak a flawed product to make it work right. Ready-to-run all too often means ready-to-tinker-with. Not all companies are guilty. Some have outstanding quality control. But there are far too many that are charging top dollar and aren't delivering quality in return.
jecorbettSome have outstanding quality control. But there are far too many that are charging top dollar and aren't delivering quality in return.
Agreed..When older release run better then the newest releases something went South in a hurry.
My few older LL P2K GP9 and GP38-2 run as smooth as silk as does my Atlas yellow box,red box and Classic.My lone Trainman GP39-2 runs just as well as my other Atlas engines.
My Bachman S4 and GE 70 Tonner are smooth runners as well.
I have several Athearn RTR that has given me great service..One SW1500 had to have the handrails replace.I bought several Athearn RTR cars that had a stirrup laying in the car's tray, one had three out of its four stirrups laying it's tray..
Pains me to say that..I've been a long time loyal customer of Athearn.
BRAKIEof its four stirrups laying it's tray..
jecorbett Fair enough. My first Athearn DCC was a non-sound Mikado. Ran OK, not great. Not a lot of pulling power as compared to a couple other Mikes on my roster. I'd put it in the same class as Spectrum, which is also in the good, not great category. My most recent addition is a Geep. It tends to stall at slow speeds. The sound is pathetics as compared to what other manufacturers are offering. I also have a AB set of F3s. They are the best of the bunch but I have been unable to change the factory address from 0003 to the road number, even though I have a PowerPax booster that is supposed to handle the high end decoders. They are the only locos I've had from any manufacturer where that has been an issue. I'm glad you've been happy with your Athearn locos, but I can only rate them based on my experience with them and that has not been great.
I have to give it to Broadway Limited. My Y6b's are stump pullers. Between their heavy all metal construction, traction tires, excelent sound and low speed opperation have won me over. I also love my A class from them as well. I was shocked when my A was double headed behind my Y6 and the A hit a spot of dirty track, she stalled. However, my Y6 kept going, pulling the stalled A class with traction tires and 60 hoppers like nothing was back there. After she dragged the A for a few inches, the A fired back up. I am also a fan of their E units and J class steamers. I have not been able to put more than 70-80 cars behind my Y6 when she is solo, so I don't know what her maximum train length is, but I am sure it is well over the prototypical 100 coal cars for a single Y6b. I also suppose I have been lucky, as I have not had an issue with my BLI stuff right out of the box. Only had one problem, my Blueline A class killed the sound card about a year ago (but I had run it for months before it stopped working), and BLI fixed it and upgraded it to Paragon 2 at no cost to me.
My second favorite set of engines are the Athearn's. Especially love my SD40T-2's in D&RGW. Athough it is a tie for me at second place, I also like the Intermountain locomotives as well.
I'm DC and about 95% steam, and due to the railroad I mainly model (D&RGW), almost by necessity, my roster is mostly brass imports. The diesels I do have (F-3's) are Genesis, and they've proven to be smooth, powerful, quiet and trouble-free. For non-brass steam, I have two Genesis steamers--a Rio Grande L-97 4-6-6-4 and an SP MT-4 4-8-2, and I'm very happy with them. I've had the Challenger about 10 years, the MT about 5, and with generous run time for both, I've had absolutely no problems. I do have several Bachmann Spectrums--2-8-0, 2-10-0 and 4-8-2, and again, no problems at all.
I did have a fleet of BLI's when they first came out--mainly for the sound, but that fascination didn't last too long, and besides, being dual-mode (DC/DCC) locomotives, I couldn't run them with the majority of my straight DC roster, so I sold most of them. I had no problems with them while I had them, but it came down to a matter of compatability. I still have one Pennsy 2-10-4 that I run occasionally, and it is a monster, a nice runner and an impressive hauler.
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
edit: nevermind, misread post.
Katsumi, hands down.
Tenshodo - but you have to pay a surcharge for the name. (Their main business is jewelry and their main store is on the Ginza, the most expensive street in Tokyo.)
Of course, my requirements don't include ANY of the above, since I model in HOj (1:80 scale) and don't run any unmodified North American prototypes.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
riogrande5761Athearn Genesis has taken the lead, generally announcing about 3 new diesels a year and following many prototype specific details - they are pricey but you get what you pay for.
And that "you get want you pay for" depends on the roll of the QC dice.You may get a great model or a soddy model..You have read the topics and seen the photos just like I have.
When a once loyal customer decides its much safer to buy a older LL P2K SCL GP9 instead of a Genesis SCL GP9 or perfers a RTR GP38-2 over a Genesis GP38-2 due to QC issues its a sad day.
I will take a Atlas or a older LL P2K engine any day over a Genesis.
Since my reply post on this thread on Friday eve I've gone back to read some of the other responses. I rated for myself, Athearn BB as the best locomotives...at least from my own experience. There are many model brands out there that I have yet to own and assess...current Atlas, MTH, BLI, and Proto 2000 just to mention a few.
Since Athearn has discontinued the BB models I have been searching high and low to find them in the models I want. I just don't do Ebay. Anyway. Here is why I carry so much faith in BB.
In 1979-1980 I developed a fond interest in the iron ore railroads in Minnesota and decided to start modeling the DMIR. I bought 2 Athearn SD9's and some MDC ore jennies from...get this, 'Hobbies For Men'. How many remember that mail order outfit in Beacon, NY. I later found a third SD9 at a train show not long after. Painted and decaled them in the old DMIR scheme. Then I went on to ballast each to the hilt with lead. I only had enough space to shroud each motor with a layered cardstock jacket to protect the body in the event of a motor meltdown. One night at a friend's house we did a weight on the three together...just shy of 5 lbs. I laughed...he cringed.
So to make a long story short. I ran absolutely obscenely heavy trains with the three and ran them abusively hard.
On the friend's layout that had a 10 amp PS, I was spiking 7 amps at times with them...4-5 amps continuous.
Almost 35 years later, I still have the three. Minus the added weight, they still run extremely well with all original equipment and the paint and decals I applied in 1980.
Thought I would toss in this little story as a testament to the Athearn BB durability.
Okay...I'm done.
Have a good day all
I too have read the responses & can't say I'm suprised. I do like my Athearn BB locos....I've had quite a few over the years. They are quite durable, easy to work on, reasonably priced, and even though they were discontinued parts are still readily available. I know there are many nicer, more expensive locomotives out there but with the old BB you get a pretty good bang for your buck. I will say, however, the stock wheels on these units leave alot to be desired.
Michael6792 I too have read the responses & can't say I'm suprised. I do like my Athearn BB locos....I've had quite a few over the years. They are quite durable, easy to work on, reasonably priced, and even though they were discontinued parts are still readily available. I know there are many nicer, more expensive locomotives out there but with the old BB you get a pretty good bang for your buck. I will say, however, the stock wheels on these units leave alot to be desired.
As long as you have earplugs, their OK.
However, upgrading one to have sound also means you have to replace the motor, flywheels, driveshafts and wheels to get one that you can hear the sounds you want. Why not start with a better unit because your "bang for the buck" just went pop!
For me, Atlas, Kato and Intermountain top my list, pretty much a 3 way tie
followed closely by Proto 2000
Stewart
Bachmann Spectrum
Lima (awesome C-420s)
Mantua (steam only)
Bowser/Penn line
Bachmann Plus
I personally have shied away from BLI, Genesis and MTH because of the horror stories expressed here and elsewhere about the quality control and poor customer service.
Karl
NCE über alles!
Athearn BB was good for the pre-DCC era. Obviously if you are still running a DC layout, they will still do the job. Compared with the detail on the newer locos, they don't stack up well. I had lots of Athearn BB on my old layout and got good service from them. My one big gripe was the loco pockets, especially on the F-units. Hornhooks were the standard back then but if you wanted to replace them with a KD, good luck.
crhostler61 Since Athearn has discontinued the BB models I have been searching high and low to find them in the models I want. I just don't do Ebay. Anyway. Here is why I carry so much faith in BB.
As I was planning my latest DCC layout, Trainworld had a blowout clearance on Athearn BB F-units. I bought a number of them, not caring about the livery since I planned to repaint them for my freelanced layout anyway. My first effort at painting these was pretty poor and about that time manufacturers started coming out with factory DCC and sound and also much better detail so I ditched all those old Athearn BBs and decided to just reletter some factory painted locos instead. Much easier than painting the whole body. If you think you might be interested, let me know. If you want a specific prototype, I probably don't have what you want but if you are into doing your own paint scheme, maybe we can work something out.
BRAKIE And that "you get want you pay for" depends on the roll of the QC dice.You may get a great model or a soddy model..You have read the topics and seen the photos just like I have.
The dice roll is generally better now than it was say 6 to 8 years ago. I have always been critical of Athearns QAQC, but quality has improved in recent years. Plus, if you get a lemon, exchange it for another model. I have had to do that a couple times - yes I got an SD45T-2 with the front truck hanging out totally loose from the frame - sent it back for another which is good. You don't have to accept a bad loco. And other makers have had lemons too, to be fair. KATO's SD40-2 with the poor wiring design, and Atlas had a run of GP40's that I had to order replacement trucks because they had issues. I'd still give Athearn an near the top rating.
He probably got a bad model. What is more sad is that this guy may have accepted an inferior model rather than exchange the better make for a good one. Athearn has had QA problems with the RTR line as well as the Genesis line. People mke decisions out of emotion rather than thought, but thats their business. I just want those who read this topic to try to weed out the bias and have a "big picture" view of HO diesel makes, rather than the statistical outlyers.
A LL P2K engine over Genesis? I have read a lot of negative feedback from those who have put LL P2K engines to the test over the years, such as Rob Spangler and Joe Fugate. Both have used P2K loco's extensively and found the mechanisms haven't held up on their large layouts, and theirs isn't the only negative feedback on LL P2K. And that isn't even mentioning the widespread problem with cracked gears! So while they make nice looking diesels, it seems illogical to say LL P2k are better than Genesis. I've haven't read that Genesis mechanisms are, in the long haul, worse than P2k. Atlas I agree, and thats why they are near the top.
Down side is Atlas doesn't make engines many need like SD45's, SD40T-2's, SD45T-2's, F units, SW1000, etc. So this gets down to the reason why we can't throw a whole brand out the window. We need diesels from multiple brands to build the roster we need.
riogrande5761 jecorbett Fair enough. My first Athearn DCC was a non-sound Mikado. Ran OK, not great. Not a lot of pulling power as compared to a couple other Mikes on my roster. I'd put it in the same class as Spectrum, which is also in the good, not great category. My most recent addition is a Geep. It tends to stall at slow speeds. The sound is pathetics as compared to what other manufacturers are offering. I also have a AB set of F3s. They are the best of the bunch but I have been unable to change the factory address from 0003 to the road number, even though I have a PowerPax booster that is supposed to handle the high end decoders. They are the only locos I've had from any manufacturer where that has been an issue. I'm glad you've been happy with your Athearn locos, but I can only rate them based on my experience with them and that has not been great. Which Geep? Geeps could be GP35, GP40-2, GP38-2, GP9. Is the sound MRC or Tsunami? Athearn discontinued MRC because it was pathetic. When Athearn engines were purchased matters a lot. Experience is valid, but lets be sure that experience isn't going to throw a brand under the buss because it was from a period when Athearns track record was more spotty. Personlly, I don't think your experience represents the brand well. I say that because I combine the experience of many others I talked to and read about on forums and overall, it is MUCH more positive.
Sorry, Athearn doesn't get a pass on this. Even if they have upgraded, they still sold me an inferior product as compared to what was available from other companies at time I purchased it and I don't forget things like that. As they used to tell us in school, it goes in their permanent record. Every company should be evaluated by the quality of their products, both good and bad. You seem to want us to only evaluate Athearn by their best products. It doesn't work that way.
PS. The Geep I bought was a GP-9.
jecorbett You seem to want us to only evaluate Athearn by their best products. It doesn't work that way. PS. The Geep I bought was a GP-9.
I understand people make emotional decisions based on a bad experience. Why not just exchange the "inferior product"? You know, I had a bad experience with ExactRail when I bought their Centerbeam - I exchanged it 3 or 4 times and even the last one had a mild warp in the flat car portion. That being said, I'm not going to tell people Exactrail makes a lousy product, in general they make the best HO freight cars on the market. Everyone makes a few duds. You and I may probably need to agree to disagree. People tend to complain loudly when something is wrong (I do it too), but are often silent when they are happy. Case in point - this topic. I own around 70 Athearn diesels and really like them alot. I also own around 20 Atlas diesels, they are really nice too. I would suggest you consider Athearn, Atlas, Walthers, Proto 2000, when you are looking for a diesel to purchase. Which ever brand makes the model you like, go for it. They are all reputable companies which over all make nice products.
riogrande5761A LL P2K engine over Genesis? I have read a lot of negative feedback from those who have put LL P2K engines to the test over the years, such as Rob Spangler and Joe Fugate. Both have used P2K loco's extensively and found the mechanisms haven't held up on their large layouts, and theirs isn't the only negative feedback on LL P2K. And that isn't even mentioning the widespread problem with cracked gears! So while they make nice looking diesels, it seems illogical to say LL P2k are better than Genesis. I've haven't read that Genesis mechanisms are, in the long haul, worse than P2k. Atlas I agree, and thats why they are near the top.
I will still buy a LL P2K over a Genesis due to the on going QC issues..
For us mere mortals the P2K locomotives will last..Of course we don't run our engines at Mach 5 either.
Never put much stock in what some "expert wannabes" say..I believe CurtMc far better..He has stayed the course in his observations.
The funny part not so long ago I got flamed because I sold all 30 of my Geeps off due to the crack gears-that was one of the most stupidest things I ever did.
Now according to some wannabes P2K is junk..Of course some wannabes trash Kato as well..
riogrande5761 jecorbett You seem to want us to only evaluate Athearn by their best products. It doesn't work that way. PS. The Geep I bought was a GP-9. I understand people make emotional decisions based on a bad experience. Why not just exchange the "inferior product"? You know, I had a bad experience with ExactRail when I bought their Centerbeam - I exchanged it 3 or 4 times and even the last one had a mild warp in the flat car portion. That being said, I'm not going to tell people Exactrail makes a lousy product, in general they make the best HO freight cars on the market. Everyone makes a few duds. You and I may probably need to agree to disagree. People tend to complain loudly when something is wrong (I do it too), but are often silent when they are happy. Case in point - this topic. I own around 70 Athearn diesels and really like them alot. I also own around 20 Atlas diesels, they are really nice too. I would suggest you consider Athearn, Atlas, Walthers, Proto 2000, when you are looking for a diesel to purchase. Which ever brand makes the model you like, go for it. They are all reputable companies which over all make nice products.
It's not an emotional response to judge a company by the products it sells you. It is a very reasonable response.
The OP asked for opinions on brands of locomotives. How else do we do that other than our experience with those brands? It's not like a lumped Athearn in with Model Power. I have bought a lot of Athearn over the years, mostly BB locos and rolling stock. I still occasionally buy a RTR piece of rolling stock if it is a car I want for my layout, even though I'm not thrilled with their coupler system. As for the Geep with the poor quality sound, had it been malfunctioning, I would have returned it. It was working as it was designed to work, with very inferior sound. I bought this within the last few years after I had so many other locos with much better sound. Athearn made the decision to go with a second rate sound system when there were better choices available. Their name was on the box so they should be held accountable for that decision they made.
A company that sometime sells good products and sometimes sells inferior ones is going to rate above one that consistently sells poor products but below those who consistently provide quality products. As a company, I would put Athearn in the middle of the pack. Better than some. Not as good as others. All my Athearn DCC locos are from their Genesis line, which is their top line. They charge a high end price but I don't believe I have gotten high end quality from any of them. I might consider buying from them again if they were offering a product I couldn't get from somebody else, but if I can get the same loco from Atlas, P2K or BLI, they will get my business over Athearn because I have gotten better products from them in the past.
kbkchooch Michael6792 I too have read the responses & can't say I'm suprised. I do like my Athearn BB locos....I've had quite a few over the years. They are quite durable, easy to work on, reasonably priced, and even though they were discontinued parts are still readily available. I know there are many nicer, more expensive locomotives out there but with the old BB you get a pretty good bang for your buck. I will say, however, the stock wheels on these units leave alot to be desired. As long as you have earplugs, their OK. However, upgrading one to have sound also means you have to replace the motor, flywheels, driveshafts and wheels to get one that you can hear the sounds you want. Why not start with a better unit because your "bang for the buck" just went pop! For me, Atlas, Kato and Intermountain top my list, pretty much a 3 way tie followed closely by Proto 2000 Stewart Bachmann Spectrum Lima (awesome C-420s) Mantua (steam only) Bowser/Penn line Bachmann Plus Athearn BB I personally have shied away from BLI, Genesis and MTH because of the horror stories expressed here and elsewhere about the quality control and poor customer service.
Apparently you are biased against Athearn for some reason. I'm not claiming they are the best on the market by any means but they have their place on my layout. If I were going to install sound or upgrade to DCC I would not start with one of these though, I would look for something DCC ready from either Atlas or Kato. I've never owned either in HO but I do have a few KATO in N scale and did have a few Atlas & they were night & day difference over the other locos I owned. (they are all gone now and all I have left are 2 KATOs)
I didn't start this thread to depate "who makes the best locomotive" I was simply looking for opinions on your best performers. I didn't realize the can of worms I was opening.
jecorbett It's not an emotional response to judge a company by the products it sells you. It is a very reasonable response.
That really depends on the response. IMO, a reasonable response would be to try to understand if your experience is representative of the products the company produces in general, or if you were unlucky. It kinda sounds like you've been unlucky based on my experence and what I've read of many others experiences on Atlas forums, TrainOrders, MR forums, and several others. Yes, being unlucky isn't nice but the context of this topic is to fair give someone unfamiliar with a product, a negative bird eye view of it based on such a limited sample? Statistically not for sure. If one gives someone an unfair view of that company, is it reasonble if the majority of it's products are quite good? Not in my opinion. I've been buying Athearn since I was a teen in the mid 1970's and right up to the present, and over all Athearn has made very good products. I have read about some bad experiences and had a few myself, but overall, I'll still give Athearn good marks. Historically, Atlas and KATO have had a better QAQC track record yes.
I also believe part of the picture is what your diesel type and road name preferences are. My guess is if you needed tunnel motors, your opinion would be a bit different, probably a lot different. It is easier for folks to dismiss or give a worse rating to a company if they don't make very much product catering to their wants. Just saying ... that definitely biases me toward Athearn, and understandably so. I have to say, I like Athearn because I am a western fan and Athearn produces nice SD40T-2's, SD45T-2's and SD45's. People of an eastern bias would probably gravitatte toward Atlas as they seem to lean toward eastern roads.
That being said, I'll repeat what I said earlier to the original poster. If you like Southern Pacific and need tunnel motors or SD45's, Athearn is your company, period. Don't avoid them. They have overall nice products and are the most accurate representations of SP & DRGW SD40T-2's and SD45T-2's, and their SD45's have a lot of prototypically correct details.
In the end, we have the best choices now than we ever did. In many cases, there are only one or two companies that make what you want, and usually the quality is good. I would not back off of Athearn if they offered what you want. There are a few cases where more than one company makes a diesel, such as the F7 or GP7 etc.
Oh, and by the way. Most afficianado's agree that the Highlinger F7, (Genesis F7) is the BEST HO representation of the F7 nose ever made. If that matters to you, you really want to take a close look at the Athearn Genesis F unit. See below. Fiest your eyes on this beauty!
Michael6792 I didn't start this thread to depate "who makes the best locomotive" I was simply looking for opinions on your best performers. I didn't realize the can of worms I was opening.
Michael6792 Apparently you are biased against Athearn for some reason. I'm not claiming they are the best on the market by any means but they have their place on my layout. If I were going to install sound or upgrade to DCC I would not start with one of these though, I would look for something DCC ready from either Atlas or Kato. I've never owned either in HO but I do have a few KATO in N scale and did have a few Atlas & they were night & day difference over the other locos I owned. (they are all gone now and all I have left are 2 KATOs) I didn't start this thread to depate "who makes the best locomotive" I was simply looking for opinions on your best performers. I didn't realize the can of worms I was opening.
Keep in mind many of Athearns RTR line are DCC ready, as are all of the Genesis line.
As for best performing, generally KATO and Atlas are tops there, but Athearn has made some major advances were. My RTR SD45 runs like a KATO, honestly! Plust I've found my SW1000 run very smoothly also, and my GP9's like KATO's. To be thorough, I'll say some have reported some of the Athearn RTR loco's from around 2002-2006 approximately, have run like coffee grinders. This is likely due to spotty quality control as has been mentioned above.
I would like to add a brand that is no longer sold new in most stores, but are among the top HO runners. Stewart Hobbies F units!!!! Bowser has taken over the Stewart line, but if you find any Stewarts in the white boxes with the red tartan, those were manufactured originally by KATO and run like a dream. I havne't bought any of the Bowser made Stewarts, but haven't heard anything change negatively.
riogrande5761I'll say some have reported some of the Athearn RTR loco's from around 2002-2006 approximately, have run like coffee grinders.
Jim,Actually a lot of the early RTR was built up BB engines with thin plastic handrails,then came the newer RTR with some details and improved drive..The early run of RTR GP35 and RS3 was very spotty and a high risk roll of the QC dice.
Now the improve SW1000 and SW1500 is without a doubt a top line model except for the few with the warp handrails and Athearn replace those when notified of the problem..My SW1500 is a very smooth and quiet runner that I would put up against any brand.
My Athearn RTR GP38-2s,GP40-2,GP60Ms SD38,SD40 and SD40-2 are all top performers.
I'm just gun shy of their Geneses line and some of their RTR boxcars.
riogrande5761It kinda sounds like you've been unlucky based on my experence and what I've read of many others experiences on Atlas forums, TrainOrders, MR forums, and several others. Yes, being unlucky isn't nice but the context of this topic is to fair give someone unfamiliar with a product, a negative bird eye view of it based on such a limited sample? Statistically not for sure. If one gives someone an unfair view of that company, is it reasonble if the majority of it's products are quite good? Not in my opinion.
The short answer is that it is absolutely fair. Many online retailers have a product review page. Customers offer their opinions of a product based on their experience alone. If there are only one or two bad reviews and dozens of good ones, a person reading the reviews would get the idea that those giving bad reviews were just unlucky. If however, there are a dozen bad reviews among say 50 total reviews, that paints a completely different picture as to the quality of the product. It stands to reason that the higher percentage of substandard products a company produces, the higher percentage of negative reviews they will get.
Based on what I have read in this thread, my experiences with Athearn are not unique. A number of reviewers have had issues with them. If I were to give a letter grade to the three Genesis locos I have purchased, it would be a B and two Cs. That's not good enough when I am paying for A quality. And I had forgotten about the 2 Athearn standard line DCC ready RS3s I purchased. I'll be generous and give them a D. I had forgotten about them because I hardly ever run them any more. They have a high rate of derailments going through turnouts. I bought an Atlas RS3 shortly after buying these and the difference is night and day.
If we only offer positive reviews of products and keep our bad experiences to ourselves, that's not fair to the companies that consistently produce quality products because the companies with QC issues will be getting the same positive reviews as the companies that have earned them.
This kind of question and the lists of choices they generate are always colored by what type of models a person is interested in.
A few thoughts:
It does not matter how good a KATO HO diesel is, they don't make enough different models to even matter in the HO market.
For me it also does not matter how good ATLAS models are, I don't own any of them because so few of their products fit my era or theme.
The cracked gears in older Proto2000 models cause some people to slide those locos WAY down their list, but to me it is a very minor issue and I love the performance and detail of older Proto models.
My only Athearn Genesis diesel experiance is F units, tied with Intermountian at the top of list as F units go in my opinion. The rest of the Genesis line is mostly out of my era, don't know or care how good they are.
Bachmann - many are great, some have issues, but the prices and the Spectrum detail is great, so I make them work.
I will repeat, as I do on every thread on this topic. It is silly to think you can judge by the brand. They all make winner and losers.
Better questions would be "I'm interessted in medium steam, which ones are good?" "I'm interested in 1st generation diesels, which ones have you had good luck with?"
I would not give 50 cents for most of the BLI diesels I have seen just based on weak detail - at least not at the prices they ask. At a Bachmann price I might settle for that level of detail and ad some on my own.
What do I have? Mostly older Proto2000 diesels, Spectrum Steam, Intermountain and Genesis F units, some old Athearn units heavily rebuilt, a few BLI steamers, Proto2000 steam - I'm not unhappy with any of them.
Sheldon
As to which locomotives are the best I would have to vote for Rapdio for Diesel locomotives. While I am now being pampered by their products which have the highest level of detail of any HO manufacturer. They cater to Canadian prototypes and while their offerings are limited, they have EMD FP9's and also FA locomoitive.
Their locomotives fit my laout perfectly. They produce their own drive trains and their pulling power is all that I will ever need.
They are pricey, but you get what you pay for, in second place I would recommend Intermountain diesel locomotives.
As far as the best steam locomotives I collect mainly PFM brass locomotives, once again my layout is Canadian so I have no other choice. There is new brass being produced but their prices are beyond what I am willing to payl My old PFM brass engines have mainly open frame motors but are easily updated with new earth magnets and flywheels can also be easily added but with a comparison of performance with the new magnets I find adding flywheels does little to improve performance. Adding DCC is also rather straight forward and also easily updated at a reasonable cost. I have also updated some of my steamers with sound.
I have purchased a few of the new Candian brass engines and find the difference in detail and running characteristics between my old updated PFM steamers and the new brass to be very close. Hence, I will not pay the high premium prices for the new brass. I might change my mind if there was not so much old PFM and Overland Candain brass available.
For plastic steam engines, once again Candian prototypes there are currently no manufacturers catering to this market. However I would recommend that if you are into Steam that you look at Bachmann's older Spectrum offerings that are still currently available and that you update them with Candian steam parts. I use Erich's Fine Scale Parts. Using their enclosed steam cabs will give you a good start on fine tuning the Spectrums into close Candians Railroad steamers.
I certainly understand that I am very lucky to have an excellent supply of HO gauge Canaian Proptype engines at my disposal and that my selection will not be for that many hobbiest to follow but then again the only layout that really concerns me is my own.
On a side note, just to fuel the rumour mill, did anyone catch the posting where Jason from Rapido indicated that he would consider making a Candian steam engine sometime in the future? Now that would be something, with his known level of detail and fine road preformance of his raijl road equipment shown in the Rapido diesels engines and also in their passenger coaches.
I wonder if he would consider making a set of Candaian Heavy Weight coaches aw well sometime soon?
Jason, are you out there?
Trix
kbkchoochIts buying an engine that I know I will have to upgrade before I can enjoy it that sticks in my craw!
Karl,That thought laid heavily on my mind when I decided to dump my 30 P2K Geers( all C&O 7/9/30s).What stupid mistake that was! I'm slowly building up a SCL/Family lines/Seaboard System roster using P2K and Atlas locomotives except for a lone Family Lines SW1500..
I still like my old fashion BB GP7s..They're smooth running 25 year old engines ..I killed the noise by adding weight to the inside top of the shell.
BRAKIE kbkchooch Its buying an engine that I know I will have to upgrade before I can enjoy it that sticks in my craw! Karl,That thought laid heavily on my mind when I decided to dump my 30 P2K Geers( all C&O 7/9/30s).What stupid mistake that was! I still like my old fashion BB GP7s..
kbkchooch Its buying an engine that I know I will have to upgrade before I can enjoy it that sticks in my craw!
Karl,That thought laid heavily on my mind when I decided to dump my 30 P2K Geers( all C&O 7/9/30s).What stupid mistake that was!
I still like my old fashion BB GP7s..
Well I still buy new old stock Proto2000 locos at bargin prices and I have big stock of replacement axles/gears - not a problem for me. But I am mostly buying undecorated models I will take apart to paint anyway, so whats the problem with throwing in some new gears?
AND, most importantly, I have NEVER had a replacement set of gears, from PROTO, WAlTHERS or ATHEARN fail. So once they are fixed, they are fixed, again no big deal to me.
Hmmm, saying LL is trash... mmmkay, so my 6 units I own have put performance on par with my Kato's another loco manufacturer that the HO crowd seems to dislike. Wouldn't their units be under even higher scrutiny because they are few and far between in HO? seems like everytime I say I like Kato, that is always a response to it even though I'm talking in terms of N scale. guess everybody needs to have athearn to fit in here.... too bad I don't, nor do I care to own one!
Garry Du Puis,
What are you doing up at this time of the morning and worryimg about such stuff ?
I have an excuse, I am really sick and feeling very shitty and can't get to sleep because I probably slept too much through the day.
I like Katos too and I just let the rest of it slide on. mine are HO.
Get some sleep Guy, you are a growing boy/man. Rest well.
Johnboy out.........................
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
BRAKIE Jim,Actually a lot of the early RTR was built up BB engines with thin plastic handrails,then came the newer RTR with some details and improved drive..The early run of RTR GP35 and RS3 was very spotty and a high risk roll of the QC dice.
For sure. And I have acknowledged that the earlier RTR stuff suffered from higher incidents of problems, mainly in the chassis.
Now the improve SW1000 and SW1500 is without a doubt a top line model except for the few with the warp handrails and Athearn replace those when notified of the problem..My SW1500 is a very smooth and quiet runner that I would put up against any brand. My Athearn RTR GP38-2s,GP40-2,GP60Ms SD38,SD40 and SD40-2 are all top performers. I'm just gun shy of their Geneses line and some of their RTR boxcars.
Yes, and your testimony is more constant with my knowledge of Athearn than Mr. Corbets is. Nice to hear another person chime in on Athearn - there are a lot of nice diesels from Athearn RTR. Most of what I own are SD45's and tunnel motors form the RTR line. I haven't had a chance to run all my Genesis, but my GP9's run very smooth so far. I"m looking forward to the D&RGW GP40-2's this august to compliment my Atlas GP40-2's.
jecorbett If there are only one or two bad reviews and dozens of good ones, a person reading the reviews would get the idea that those giving bad reviews were just unlucky. Based on what I have read in this thread, my experiences with Athearn are not unique. A number of reviewers have had issues with them. If we only offer positive reviews of products and keep our bad experiences to ourselves, that's not fair to the companies that consistently produce quality products because the companies with QC issues will be getting the same positive reviews as the companies that have earned them.
If there are only one or two bad reviews and dozens of good ones, a person reading the reviews would get the idea that those giving bad reviews were just unlucky.
Based on what I have read in this thread, my experiences with Athearn are not unique. A number of reviewers have had issues with them.
Right ... and well, based on my personal experiences and lots of forum reading, you are in the ball park there - it's like 2 bad reviews vs. a dozen good ones, or close to that - thats my observation. Thats why I want readers to know Athearn isn't as bad as some would lead you to believe.
Of course your experiences are not unique. I've read those bad reviews at roughly the rate mentioned, mostly the earlier RTR line running like coffee grinders, and a few Genesis with issues. But I still like the product. What you do if you get a lemon is return it or exchange it and move on. If you don't like those numbers, well, lets again just agree to disagree.
And btw, I'm not glossing over Athearns problesm. I've always held Athearns feet to the fire regarding their QAQC track record, and I've also seen it improve over the past 5-8 years - so I'll give Athearn credit for improving. Perfect recently? No, but improving. And again, it's no small point as to what your bias is vs. your feelings about a company. I strongly believe if you were an SP or D&RGW fan, you'd probabably have a better opinion of Athearn. But I'll admit, I'm biased because Athearn caters to the SP and D&RGW fan in me and has please me alot.
Another example of QAQC in the hobby's past ... Remember LL P2K of the 1990's? They had lots of issues as they rolled out new RTR diesels. Customers gave feedback and they steadily improved the P2K line, unlike Spectrum which maintained poor fidelity through out the 90's. It really hasn't been until the last 5-6 years we've seen Bachmann make significant improvement.
Jim,I fully agree the RTR SD45 are great engines that are smooth runners and ranks up there with Geneses as far as details like MU hoses,radio antenna,uncoupling bars, grabs just to name a few.
I just shun some RTR boxcars and Genesis.
I must admit that SCL GP9 does look pretty darn good.
BRAKIE Jim,I fully agree the RTR SD45 are great engines that are smooth runners and ranks up there with Geneses as far as details like MU hoses,radio antenna,uncoupling bars, grabs just to name a few. I just shun some RTR boxcars and Genesis. I must admit that SCL GP9 does look pretty darn good.
I've gone bananas over the SD45's, and despite their RP shell heritage, they've been gussy'd up pretty nicely - enough to distract you from the RP long hood latch detail. I haven't run all of the but the ones I have really are like KATO's. All the SP SD45' seem to follow the numbered prototypes with L-shaped windshields, nose light package, plow, and generally the correct trucks (low or high mount brake cylinders).
I very few bluebox based RTR box cars, only a blue box based plug door box car and a couple of blue box based covered hoppers. Most of the RTR Athearn stuff I have are the Thrall hi-side unit train gons, which are pretty nicely upgraded from MDC cars, and the Orter 5-bay rapid discharge hoppers, again, nicely upgraded and perfect for D&RGW unit trains. Being an SP fan, I've picked up a goodly number of the Genesis PC&F box cars - any SP fan worth his salt has to have those! Which cars have you had problems with?
riogrande5761Which cars have you had problems with?
Here's the list and number of the cars that arrived with stirrup issues-some fell off when I removed the car from its tray.I did glue the stirrup(s) back on the car.
5 FMC 5347
9 FMC Offset double door
7 PS 5277
4 PS 5344
and the RTR PF&C ribside-3.
These are sweet looking boxcars except if you sneeze you run a risk of one of the stirrups falling off.
Here is my solution..I added a tad of glue to the backside of stirrups(inside the car body) on the cars I own that arrived without issues and that ended the problem.
When cars started arriving with 1 or more of their stirrups laying in the tray I had enough even though I like those cars.
They should have added a light touch of glue like I did since its a long trip from China to the U.S then from port to Athearn(or was it Horizon?) then to a on line hobby shop and mailed to Ohio...
BRAKIE riogrande5761 Which cars have you had problems with? Here's the list and number of the cars that arrived with stirrup issues-some fell off when I removed the car from its tray.I did glue the stirrup(s) back on the car. 5 FMC 5347 9 FMC Offset double door 7 PS 5277 4 PS 5344 and the RTR PF&C ribside-3. These are sweet looking boxcars except if you sneeze you run a risk of one of the stirrups falling off. Here is my solution..I added a tad of glue to the backside of stirrups(inside the car body) on the cars I own that arrived without issues and that ended the problem. When cars started arriving with 1 or more of their stirrups laying in the tray I had enough even though I like those cars. They should have added a light touch of glue like I did since its a long trip from China to the U.S then from port to Athearn(or was it Horizon?) then to a on line hobby shop and mailed to Ohio...
riogrande5761 Which cars have you had problems with?
Those are nice looking cars. Are those former MDC box cars? I haven't gotten any of the RTR versions but the ones I've seen looked nice.
I searched Athearn and it looks like all those are all retired. I guess that means they are never going to be made again. I wonder if Athearn lost the molds in the chinese factory closure.
last mountain & eastern hogger Garry Du Puis, What are you doing up at this time of the morning and worryimg about such stuff ? I have an excuse, I am really sick and feeling very shitty and can't get to sleep because I probably slept too much through the day. I like Katos too and I just let the rest of it slide on. mine are HO. Get some sleep Guy, you are a growing boy/man. Rest well. Johnboy out.........................
I hope you will feel better soon Jonboy!
don7 I wonder if he would consider making a set of Candaian Heavy Weight coaches aw well sometime soon? Jason, are you out there?
Hi Don,
The next two years are pretty full for us but once we get the lightweight diner out of the way (late 2015 at the earliest) there are definitely some heavyweights that need to be done...
-Jason
Jason Shron - President - Rapido Trains Inc. - RapidoTrains.comMy HO scale Kingston Sub layout: Facebook.com/KingstonSub
riogrande5761Are those former MDC box cars? I
Jim,Yes,those are the supped up MDC cars I have mention.
For the good news Athearn has announced a new run of the FMC 5347 that's due in late August.
As luck would have it there is one car I'm highly interested in-East Camden & Highland..The last run of this road name was in 2009 and I missed it.
BTW..A lot of those IPD short line boxcars was offered as MDC kits..
I picked up a couple of the newer Kato N Scale SD70ACe's in the Norfolk Southern heritage schemes for my Son for Christmas (Illinois Terminal and Jersey Central). WOW! He and I are VERY impressed. Smooth, quiet, great low speed movement, strong. Without a doubt the best in his N scale fleet...which is saying a lot becuase he has some exceptional other Kato models as well as some great Atlas N Scale locomotives.
Happy modeling to all!
Don.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
kbkchooch Michael6792 Apparently you are biased against Athearn for some reason. I'm not claiming they are the best on the market by any means but they have their place on my layout. If I were going to install sound or upgrade to DCC I would not start with one of these though, I would look for something DCC ready from either Atlas or Kato. I've never owned either in HO but I do have a few KATO in N scale and did have a few Atlas & they were night & day difference over the other locos I owned. (they are all gone now and all I have left are 2 KATOs) I didn't start this thread to depate "who makes the best locomotive" I was simply looking for opinions on your best performers. I didn't realize the can of worms I was opening. I think you missed my point Michael. I don't have anything against Athearn at all. At one time, probably 80% of what I had was Athearn. But then I started noticing things. I bought a Stewart F7, suddenly the windsheild profile on my BB Athearns bugged me. Then I bought some Atlas GP9s, and I sold my "widebody" Athearns. Kato GP35s spelled the end of my Athearn ones. Ditto for the SD40s. In all fairness to Athearn, I did buy 2 RTR GP38-2s. I was not impressed, the spline drive was better, but not as good as my Atlas units. All my other units, straight from the box, have been better than my experience with Athearn has been. Now Athearns account for less than 5% of the fleet, and only 2 of those still have their original drivelines.. You said it yourself, if you were going to upgrade to sound & DCC you wouldn't go with Athearn, but look at something DCC ready from Atlas or Kato. Why is that? What are YOUR reasons?? Really, I'd like to hear them. I've gotten to the point in my life that reworking the driveline and throwing a box of detail parts to equal the competition just is not worth it. But I am not writing them off yet. The Genesis units are appealing. As soon as I see a "gotta have it" unit, I'll bite. The RTR rolling stock is great stuff too! I've bought quite a bit of that lately. I've probably had better luck with the other brands (although most of my Proto 4 axle units have Athearn gears now) as far as running quiet as well as smooth. Its buying an engine that I know I will have to upgrade before I can enjoy it that sticks in my craw! Oh and cans of worms, around here they pop open at the slightest breeze! Oh I almost forgot, my LHS is having a 2 hour session/demo with the gang from Athearn Monday from 5-7 pm. I'm planning on being there....Not the behavoir you would expect from a person with a problem with Athearn.
The only reason I wouldn't use an Athearn BB loco for an upgrade like that is I wouldn't want to do the work. I would rather have something plug & play. I mentioned Atlas & KATO but I would also look at Genesis. As someone else pointed out, it will be partially dictated by the models they offer. Keep in mind that I've never owned any of these in HO scale, but I do have a KATO SW1500 in N scale and an Atlas as well and they are both very smooth runners.
Athearn BB is what I use. With a little bit of repairs and such they run great! Just ot the best details on the BB's.
In HOn3, it is obviously Blackstone, by far for detail and sound. (tsunami sound). Two new locoos coming out in 2014 to add to the stable. They turn out far more models per run than the brass makers, but are almost always sold out within a year and have to do another run. It should be little different when they release the K-28 and K-36 this year.
As long as there is HOn3 Blackstone will be "the one".
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
My first engine, a Bachmann HO Jupiter, turned into 'Old Sparky' within a year of purchase and is now a wall display. My second Bachmann, a N&W J4-8-4, has seen the Bachmann repair shop 3 times; the last time I received it back I gave it a test run, fine, then it went back into the box until the track is clean, evenly powered and perfectly level, just to be sure...the Bachmann Hogwarts Express, though, works fine and consistently, even through parts of the track that other steamers find difficult.
But the gem of my collection is my Mehano 4-8-4 'Bullet-Nosed Betty'. A strong runner in CN 1954 livery, I use it to pull the rest of my Rapido '54 6 car CN consist with no complaints.
Heading my CN '61 consist is a Lionel engine (with a Model Power shell) from their video train, and a Stewart F7B unit. Both engines are strong and run well at very slow speeds. But the Stewart has the stripes backwards and the other shell is, well, garbage. But it's all I've got until the budget can spring for the Rapido set...
I have two Athearn diesels that I was given; they run well. I currently have them on display with my circus train.
I was on Athearn's website, and it looks like the majority of the RTR locomotives are DCC ready with both 8 and 9 pin plugs. All Genesis either come with DCC and sound, or are ready.
The few RTR that are not DCC would take a little bit of work. I have a RTR GP38-2 that isn't DCC ready, but all the weight is in the frame, so there is plenty of space under the shell. It runs great and has great details.
Mentioning the Athearn BB engines, I have a whole mess of them: 1 Athearn F7 (The drive happens to be the first Athearn engine I ever got [early 90s I think]. It has had the shell replaced a few times and the frame modified for a metal coupler/snowplow, but it is still a good runner.); 3 or 4 SW7 powered cows; 1 SW1000; and 6 GP35 drives that have had their frames slightly modified to fit under Tyco GP20 shells, thusly making what I term Tythearns.
I also have picked up a few other good diesels over the years: 2 Atlas S4s (yellow box), 2 LL P2K GP18s, and the newest (to me) is a Walthers SW1. All of those are good runners as well.
Best is the company that makes the engine you want with the level of detail and performance you want. In other words, it's very subjective. There are some beauutiful steam locomotives out there with an amazing level of detail. Would I buy one? No. Not interested. I very much enjoy my first generation diesels. My favorites are a pair of MDC/Roundhouse EMD model 40 switchers. I love the small switchers.
Just my 2 cents.
Life is simple - eat, drink, play with trains!
Go Big Red!
PA&ERR "If you think you are doing something stupid, you're probably right!"
narrow gauge nuclear In HOn3, it is obviously Blackstone, by far for detail and sound. (tsunami sound). Two new locoos coming out in 2014 to add to the stable. They turn out far more models per run than the brass makers, but are almost always sold out within a year and have to do another run. It should be little different when they release the K-28 and K-36 this year. As long as there is HOn3 Blackstone will be "the one".
In some ways I think the K-28s and -36s will be an even bigger hit than the C-19 and K-27 were. I own one of each of those, despite not having a permanent layout yet, but I think the fact that people can actually see and smell and hear and ride behind the K-28s and K-36s will bring even more people into HOn3 (463's recent rebuilding notwithstanding.) Established modelers were certainly well served with the C-19 and K-27, but in terms of bringing new people into the fold, the new locos could have an even bigger impact.
Bruce
dc rivarossi
dcc bli
To who ever thinks Athearn BBs are better than Athearn RTR, can I ask, why?
Charles
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
Uh oh, old topic got dug up and bumped!
BRAKIE Texas Zepher Best candidate for the trash can - Life Like, If you'r going to be tossing any LL P2K let me know and I send you my address.. Walthers just jack the price on the older P2K DC models.. We should add Atlas Trainman to the list since they share the same drives as Atlas Master and Classic.
Texas Zepher Best candidate for the trash can - Life Like,
I think he meant LL train set loos I have one that I put some Bachmann ez mates on that sits in an unpeeled siding.
Joe Staten Island West
bigpianoguyBut the gem of my collection is my Mantua 4-8-4 'Bullet-Nosed Betty'. A strong runner in CN 1954 livery, I use it to pull the rest of my Rapido '54 6 car CN consist with no complaints.
Atlas-Silver & Classics
Stewart/Kato
Those are what I buy most of the time. I also have old Bowser steam engines (retired from use), Some old BB athearn deisels (also retired) And a couple of Proto 2000 only because they were the only 'E' units I could find.
I recently bought two Walthers Mainline DL-109's. IMHO these are a big step up from their Proto engines. Time will tell how well they hold up.
South Penn
I run ho scale and I love my atherns even though they are older they run like true champs.
love any kind of train
SouthPenn Atlas-Silver & Classics Stewart/Kato Those are what I buy most of the time. I also have old Bowser steam engines (retired from use), Some old BB athearn deisels (also retired) And a couple of Proto 2000 only because they were the only 'E' units I could find. I recently bought two Walthers Mainline DL-109's. IMHO these are a big step up from their Proto engines. Time will tell how well they hold up. South Penn
To me, the Walthers Mainline version of the Santa Fe DL-109 looks identical to the Proto 1000 version. Where do you see the "big step up"?
Joachim
The Mainline engines run much better than my Proto 2000 engines. Smoother and quieter. I don't have a Proto 1000 to compare it to.
Isn't the Proto 100 the models that had the drive gear cracking problem?
Modelling HO Scale with a focus on the West and Midwest USA
I haven't read every post, but there doesn't seem to be any opinion on MTH or BLI. Are these not worth the money?
If there ever was such as thing as a Mantua 4-8-4, I'd like to see a photo of it. This reminds me of my scouting days when we sent all the Tenderfoot scouts out on a snipe hunt in the middle of the night.
ACY If there ever was such as thing as a Mantua 4-8-4, I'd like to see a photo of it. This reminds me of my scouting days when we sent all the Tenderfoot scouts out on a snipe hunt in the middle of the night. Tom
Here is a picture of the snipe in question:
http://hoseeker.net/mantuainformation/mantuacatalog1996pg04.jpg
Last loco at the bottom of the page - nothing more than a Pacific with a 4 wheel trailing truck - BUT they did exist.
So what is wrong with Proto diesels? Pre or post Walthers?
I have about 40 of them, they all run great.
Are we talking out of the box or tuned???????????? OTB Kato drive for sure.
snjroyDeLuxe, there is a Mantua 4-8-4 on utube
@ Atlantic Central: it´s not a 4-8-4 on the photo. It´s a 4-6-4 and Mantua of course did some 4-6-4´s. But for sure no 4-8-4. At least I didn´t see any yet.
Never seen a six-drivered 4-8-4 before. Will wonders never cease?
Now I can die 'cause I've seen everything.
De Luxe snjroy DeLuxe, there is a Mantua 4-8-4 on utube Hi Simon, I know that 4-8-4 very well. Was on ebay once upon a time. Spoke with the seller. It´s of course a kitbashed unique 4-8-4. Quite well done. @ Atlantic Central: it´s not a 4-8-4 on the photo. It´s a 4-6-4 and Mantua of course did some 4-6-4´s. But for sure no 4-8-4. At least I didn´t see any yet.
snjroy DeLuxe, there is a Mantua 4-8-4 on utube
Hi Simon, I know that 4-8-4 very well. Was on ebay once upon a time. Spoke with the seller. It´s of course a kitbashed unique 4-8-4. Quite well done.
Opps, my bad, guess I should read slower.
I thought it was MY old eyes!
I don't know when the Proto 2000's were built, but all were NIB.
One runs fine but needs some TLC to run better.
One would not go around any corner no matter the radius. The slip joint for the rear truck was so long, it was binding up the truck not letting it turn. I cut about 1/2" off the female part of the slip joint and now it goes around corners. But still needs work to run smoother and quieter.
The third unit vibrates and make so much noise it has become a permanant display in the round house. I might try to fix it.
The mechanicals, weights, and electrical systems are slightly different in each locomotive.
SouthPenn I don't know when the Proto 2000's were built, but all were NIB. One runs fine but needs some TLC to run better. One would not go around any corner no matter the radius. The slip joint for the rear truck was so long, it was binding up the truck not letting it turn. I cut about 1/2" off the female part of the slip joint and now it goes around corners. But still needs work to run smoother and quieter. The third unit vibrates and make so much noise it has become a permanant display in the round house. I might try to fix it. The mechanicals, weights, and electrical systems are slightly different in each locomotive. South Penn
Well it would really be interesting to know which Proto locos you had this trouble with?
Kato and Atlas make great stuff, but their selecton does not fit my era or interests.
OK, Mehano, then. But yes, it's the PC series. And it pulls just fine.
Atlantic Central:
All the locomotives are marked Life Like on the bottom. Hope that helps.
Athearn Blue Box Made in the U.S.of A.
MDC Roundhouse Yellow and Red Boxes Made in U.S. of A.
Mantua Red Box/Mantua Yellow and Orange Box and Some Blue Box, Made in U.S.of A.
SouthPenn Atlantic Central: All the locomotives are marked Life Like on the bottom. Hope that helps. South Penn
Respectfully I was wondering which specific models - GP7, FA1, FA2, etc ?
While many Proto models share common drives/parts, not all are of the same design.
Sorry. All three are EMD E8/9
SouthPenn Sorry. All three are EMD E8/9 South Penn
Interesting that you had problems with that model, never known anyone to complain about such problems with that model.
I have 6 of them myself, all perfect runners.
You may have said, but did you buy them new?
If so you should have simply returned them. LifeLike had a very good warranty.
These were bought off of EBay long after Life Like was absorbed by Wathers. They were indeed NIB.
My Layout Photos- http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/ajwarshal/library/
SouthPenn These were bought off of EBay long after Life Like was absorbed by Wathers. They were indeed NIB. South Penn
Respectfully, so you bought new old stock Proto E units off Ebay, 10-15 years after they were made, possibly from different production runs, and even though they apeared to be NIB, you really have no idea how they were stored/handled all those years, and you use this one experiance to judge a product?
All from the same seller? A dealer or private seller?
The problem with the drive shaft sounds like possible shipping damage, a jolt might have moved a universal or flywheel on a motor shaft binding the drive shaft.
Electrical boards different - possible - Life Like made a number of different batches of those locos over a 10-15 year period before Walthers ownership. Then Walthers made several runs before retooling the drive. The circuit boards did "evolve" over that whole 15 year or longer period.
It is unfortunate that you had a bad experiance, I don't buy much on Ebay - unless the price is really right........or it really looks NOS/NIB......not interested in "already been played with" stuff.
As I said earlier, I have 6 Proto E units, all great runners, and about 45 other Proto diesels - all great runners.
The cracked gear problem was mainly GP7's, FA's, BL2's and other four wheel truck models - and it was later fixed and is easily fixed if you find one not yet fixed. Not one Life Like replacement gear set has ever cracked in my locos - Life Like gave away tons of wheel sets to honor their warranty on that. 20 years later, no one should be crying about havng to repalce $12 worth of wheels to keep an otherwise great model running - or get it running because it has been sitting on a shelf for 20 years. Try telling anyone in any other business you just bought a NOS 20 year old item and you want warranty serivce - ha, ha.
Atlas makes great stuff, but I will never understand these discussions of best/favorite brand - why? - becuase it does not matter how good a product is if they don't make the models you need or want.
AND, not every product from the same brand is the same quality - they all make duds, they all make some winners.
Atlas makes/has made very few locos in my era, they have been harder to find and more expensive. I freelance and buy a lot of undecorated locos, now hard to find from anyone, but Atlas has always been light on undecorated availablity........
KATO - that's just an N scale company that dabbles in HO from time to time - good as they may be, they have never made a model that would fit the theme/era of my railroad.
I will not preorder - another reason to not own Atlas - no matter how "good" they are.
But, truth told, I now own most every model train I have any need for or interest in, so it matters not who makes what, how good it is/was, and how you must get on a list to own one.
I'm running a large fleet of mostly Proto, Bachmann Spectrum, Genesis and Intermountain locos - on DC, with no sound.
LOL
This Eveready Bunny thread started out 18 months ago as Who Makes the Best locomotives. What happened? We are now mired in an argument over who makes the worst locomotives.
A discussion like this could go on for a long peroiod. There is a lot of competition for the best product in HO engines. Because the features evolve, what is great today will likely be average on the next model.
Keep in mind, they are just mechanical systems. There is variation in all of the parts, mechanical and electrical.
I have been doing a lot of testing in the recent months. The most significant finding is that certain brands tend to have less variation and others tend to have more.
The question of best is very subjective. Are you talking "best replicates your rail road"? If you did a search, most engines for a given railroad had differences. These increased over time and things wore out and non stock replacements were used.
If your talking about "who makes the most accurate sound system"? that one is really where the competition is intense. Because of this, the sound package is changing in almost every release. So if you got a GP7 with sound three years ago and one today from the same manufacturer, the sound package is likely different. The latter of better quality sound.
Or are you asking who makes the "best performing engines?. To really know what is best for you, you have to know how you want to use your engines. i.e. are you running mainly long trains on flat country between 10 and 20 SMPH for long periods of time? Or, a lot of yard switching with a few cuts of cars creeping at less than 5 smph. Lastly are you running mainly consists over a lot of resistance factors, sharp curves and grades for instance.
It is difficult to make a product that serves all of these demands well. Some do better than others. The desire for clear sound and reduced current draw has further complicated this issue. Both of these are accomplished by reducing the power needs of the system. That is a bit like going from a dump truck to a smart car. You loose certain capabilities going to the smart car. The question is did they matter.
My recent tests have all focused on the performance aspects. Recent releases suffer in many ways, so one has to be sure the benefits out weight the drawbacks.
I would put Atlas China at the top
Then anything that Kato supported would be close to them.
The main reason is their units tend to have little variation, model to model and unit to unit.
Their are some that I have heard good tings about, but do not have enough experience to be sure: Rapidio and recent Bowser.
P2K was very good in its day. There is a very good summary of the Athearn and Kato lineage in the Life LIke models Here:
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=52753
About half way down the page there is the summary. The P2K E8A's I have worked on were all Athearn truck clones, with the axle gear issues. So the list may not be totally accurate, but will get you started. Fundamentally, P2K engines were really tuned up and sound reduced Athearn blue box engines. So while certain aspects were improved, they still had the same genes.
www.llxlocomotives.com
So many trains, so little time,
ggnlars That is a bit like going from a dump truck to a smart car. You loose certain capabilities going to the smart car. The question is did they matter. My recent tests have all focused on the performance aspects. Recent releases suffer in many ways, so one has to be sure the benefits out weight the drawbacks. I would put Atlas China at the top Then anything that Kato supported would be close to them. The main reason is their units tend to have little variation, model to model and unit to unit. Larry www.llxlocomotives.com
That is a bit like going from a dump truck to a smart car. You loose certain capabilities going to the smart car. The question is did they matter.
Agreed. This is what I would have wrote. Right out of the box, Atlas and Kato are consistently good. You know what to expect and you get it. Atlas locomotives tend to be built with the same parts year after year, run after run. Which also allows them to be one of the few manufacturers to have spare parts available too.
Also, I don't care for the idea of buying a state of the art loco that might stall over turnouts. Even short wheel based locos should run properly right out of the box. I've never owned an Atlas or Kato loco that has stalled, whereas Bachmann, P2K, and some others suffer this issue occasionally. If you can't get the wheel-to-decoder electrical continuity issues correct, I don't care about how prototypically accurate the shell is, or how accurate the sound is, or much else. Those things simply don't matter unless the basics work like they should......right out of the box...EVERY new loco....always. I know that some of those pickup issues can be inconsistent soldering, which is more of a QC issue, but some locos still suffer from poor truck and pickup design even though they have a very advanced digital control system installed.
- Douglas
ggnlars A discussion like this could go on for a long peroiod. There is a lot of competition for the best product in HO engines. Because the features evolve, what is great today will likely be average on the next model. Keep in mind, they are just mechanical systems. There is variation in all of the parts, mechanical and electrical. I have been doing a lot of testing in the recent months. The most significant finding is that certain brands tend to have less variation and others tend to have more. The question of best is very subjective. Are you talking "best replicates your rail road"? If you did a search, most engines for a given railroad had differences. These increased over time and things wore out and non stock replacements were used. If your talking about "who makes the most accurate sound system"? that one is really where the competition is intense. Because of this, the sound package is changing in almost every release. So if you got a GP7 with sound three years ago and one today from the same manufacturer, the sound package is likely different. The latter of better quality sound. Or are you asking who makes the "best performing engines?. To really know what is best for you, you have to know how you want to use your engines. i.e. are you running mainly long trains on flat country between 10 and 20 SMPH for long periods of time? Or, a lot of yard switching with a few cuts of cars creeping at less than 5 smph. Lastly are you running mainly consists over a lot of resistance factors, sharp curves and grades for instance. It is difficult to make a product that serves all of these demands well. Some do better than others. The desire for clear sound and reduced current draw has further complicated this issue. Both of these are accomplished by reducing the power needs of the system. That is a bit like going from a dump truck to a smart car. You loose certain capabilities going to the smart car. The question is did they matter. My recent tests have all focused on the performance aspects. Recent releases suffer in many ways, so one has to be sure the benefits out weight the drawbacks. I would put Atlas China at the top Then anything that Kato supported would be close to them. The main reason is their units tend to have little variation, model to model and unit to unit. Their are some that I have heard good tings about, but do not have enough experience to be sure: Rapidio and recent Bowser. P2K was very good in its day. There is a very good summary of the Athearn and Kato lineage in the Life LIke models Here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=52753 About half way down the page there is the summary. The P2K E8A's I have worked on were all Athearn truck clones, with the axle gear issues. So the list may not be totally accurate, but will get you started. Fundamentally, P2K engines were really tuned up and sound reduced Athearn blue box engines. So while certain aspects were improved, they still had the same genes. Larry www.llxlocomotives.com
Larry, you make a lot of good points about the "subjective" nature of choosing what is "best" - I agree.
The comments I have made in this thread relate directly to several simple points:
1. No matter what criteria you use, it is still difficult to judge "by the brand", they all have made some duds, they all have made some winners.
2. If you are just a "random collector of model trains", then choosing to buy "only the best", based on your personal criteria is a choice anyone is free to make. BUT, if a person has a specific set of modeling goals, requiring or desiring models of specific prototypes, one must be willing to consider all reasonably performing models of the desired prototypes - making "best" a much less important critria.
I'm not going to pick my prototype and era based on what is made by one or two manufactrurers - for that reason I don't own any Atlas or Kato locos, no matter how good they are.......few if any from those brands fit my theme or era.
I agree that manufacturing consisitancy is a mark of quality - and a downfall of some of the available brands - but in the whole history of the "China production revolution" that situation has consistantly improved across the board with all the brands.
Some of us, like myself, remember the hobby before "made in china" - I will take the advanages with the disadvantages of this change and make the best of it.
Also, speaking of personal criteria, I have no interest in sound or DCC - I've been known to remove a lot of decoders and a few sound decoders to run some more recent production locos with my Aristo Train Engineer throttles - which are not liked by dual mode DCC decoders.
So I don't care one bit about a sound system - they all sound like the crappy little 1" speakers they are played through.
Proto 2000 E8/9's have a KATO clone truck design, not an Athearn truck, the two axle Proto truck is an Athearn clone.
But again, all my DC powered Proto locos run great on my Aristo Wireless Throttles, only a few have needed the most minor tuning.
And all my Bachmann Spectrum steamers run great, better than several BLI steamers ran out of the box.............
And I like the fine detail on Proto compared to most diesels from Atlas or BLI......
Again, happy to have already bought a big stock of undecorated DC powered Proto and Spectrum locos for my ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
Freelance modeling the Mid Atlantic in 1954......
See below. Definitely an Athearn inside braced clone.
Why do you consider it an Athearn clone when Athearn never made a similar truck/loco? Just because of the inside bearings? I think clone is too strong a word in this case, but OK, if you want to consider it similar to the late model Blue Box PA1.
I didn't need a picture, I own a stack of them.
But I have known very few people to have any axle/gear failures like the 4 wheel Proto truck. I did have one out of 6 Proto PA's to have just one bad axle, and have know no one else to have such a failure. Life Like provide free parts in that case as well.
You can call it very good "in its day" buy I am not impressed with diesels from Broadway or Atlas when it comes to fine detail on the shell - Proto, Genesis and Intermountain still own "best" in that department for me.
Someone mentioned stalling on turnouts - non of my locos stall on my powered frogs.....
In N scale, I've always liked Kato locos; in HO, I have only purchased 3 locos so far, and the one from Bowser is the best one of the three.
P2K made a number of models that Athearn and Kato did not make. When people describe them as clones, it means that they basically utilized the parts and design of one or the other and some times both. Where possible, they improved certain features.
Athearn BB SD40-2 truck structure is basically the same as the E8. P2K changed the bottom clip and side frames on most of their units, C-C and B-B. The Kato clones have a metal plate on the outside that the axle rides in to pass the electrical circuit. While the designs have many differences, the major difference is the axle gears construction. The Athearn type axle gears are a tube with a gear formed on it. The half wheel shafts fit into this tube with an interference fit. This puts the plastic in tension at all times. The plastic suffers from a cyclic fatigue condition because of that. The failure time can be very short depending on the amount of interference and the temperature variations the model is exposed to, even new in the box.
The Kato clone trucks have a plastic axle and formed gear as well. But the axle fits into the wheel. This interference puts the plastic into compression. The failure mechanism is still there, but the failure rate is several orders of magnitude longer.
The wheel to axle connection is better on the Kato design. However, Athearn went away from a cruder outside frame design. I believe it was because of electrical pick up issues. When people complain about Kato it is becuse of electrical pick up.
Larry,
Thanks for the additional info. Years ago I worked in a hobby store, did repairs and was very familiar most all models. But for the last 20 plus years, I have been modeling only, and diesels like the SD40-2 are outside my era of interest, I have forgotten or lost touch with their features.
I have a lot of the Athearn style Proto 4 wheel trucks, many have needed gear replacement - none have failed a second time. I have long agreed with your view that the cracking is very likely to happen to locos stored in poor environments.
KATO has never made a loco that fits my era/interest - so for me it matter not.
To supplement my previous post: I think the old Athearn/P2K truck design was outstanding as far as electrical pickup consistnency. Proto had the cracked gear issue which could effect pickup if severe enough, but that issue is ancient history now, and doesn't impact my opinion of them.
What I don't care for is a truck design that uses metal wipers held against the inside of the wheels with tension. Nor do I like newer designs that have metal wipers held against square brass bearings (like the common athearn bearing) with tension...inside the gear case. Any slightly misplaced factory lube used on the gears can work it way around and can interfere with the strip making contact with the bearing. Just a bad idea, imo.
I would seperate my Steamers from my Diesels. My most detailed, newest, most detailed and best running diesels in order are Rapido (best by far) Intermountain (close second) BLI (also very close) Walthers (newer are better than old)
Steamers BLI, True Trains, Walthers Proto (only newer, older had poor traction) Spektrum (great runners, sound OK
don7 I would seperate my Steamers from my Diesels. My most detailed, newest, most detailed and best running diesels in order are Rapido (best by far) Intermountain (close second) BLI (also very close) Walthers (newer are better than old) Steamers BLI, True Trains, Walthers Proto (only newer, older had poor traction) Spektrum (great runners, sound OK
All of those are great products - but again, it is clear to anyone who has followed your interests, those choices are influenced by your prototype interests.
I don't have anything from Rapido - only because I don't model any of the roads they have produced locos for.
Who makes the best locomotives? Based on my own opinion and experience.
The most reliable and trouble free loco:
Athearn Genesis
Atlas
Proto
Rapido
The most correct (paint scheme, details) loco:
Kato / Intermountain
Atlas / Bachman / Proto
The least reliable loco:
Walthers Train line
Intermountain
The best overall loco:
D.D.
First I should state that my hobby budget is limited (I have analog DC) with that said, I have tried a number of differnt brands which I found at clearence sales at modeltrainstuff.com. I have found for reliability, smooth running and easy maintenance, I like the Atlas Trainman line. I have two SP RS32s for several years now and they run great and look great. I also have two D&H GP39s which also run and look great. I love the ease of removing the shell from the GP-39 by simply removing the couplers and it simply lifts right off! I also have some Walther's Mainline locos (RS-2 and EMD SW1s) which look and run great and even a recent Athearn Chessie GP40-2 which also is great. But like I said, I like the Trainman best, I just wish Atlas would expand their offerings a bit.
This is an old thread on a common topic. I have been researching this topic through a test series over the last year. There are over 200 HO engine tests documented on the page linked at the bottom of this post. I have been taking a bunch of data. So far I have had trouble measuring smooth.
For best and most consistent performance, Anything Kato based and Atlas China would be my top two. I haven't covered the entire spectrum, so I can not comment on some.