I have to give it to Broadway Limited. My Y6b's are stump pullers. Between their heavy all metal construction, traction tires, excelent sound and low speed opperation have won me over. I also love my A class from them as well. I was shocked when my A was double headed behind my Y6 and the A hit a spot of dirty track, she stalled. However, my Y6 kept going, pulling the stalled A class with traction tires and 60 hoppers like nothing was back there. After she dragged the A for a few inches, the A fired back up. I am also a fan of their E units and J class steamers. I have not been able to put more than 70-80 cars behind my Y6 when she is solo, so I don't know what her maximum train length is, but I am sure it is well over the prototypical 100 coal cars for a single Y6b. I also suppose I have been lucky, as I have not had an issue with my BLI stuff right out of the box. Only had one problem, my Blueline A class killed the sound card about a year ago (but I had run it for months before it stopped working), and BLI fixed it and upgraded it to Paragon 2 at no cost to me.
My second favorite set of engines are the Athearn's. Especially love my SD40T-2's in D&RGW. Athough it is a tie for me at second place, I also like the Intermountain locomotives as well.
I'm DC and about 95% steam, and due to the railroad I mainly model (D&RGW), almost by necessity, my roster is mostly brass imports. The diesels I do have (F-3's) are Genesis, and they've proven to be smooth, powerful, quiet and trouble-free. For non-brass steam, I have two Genesis steamers--a Rio Grande L-97 4-6-6-4 and an SP MT-4 4-8-2, and I'm very happy with them. I've had the Challenger about 10 years, the MT about 5, and with generous run time for both, I've had absolutely no problems. I do have several Bachmann Spectrums--2-8-0, 2-10-0 and 4-8-2, and again, no problems at all.
I did have a fleet of BLI's when they first came out--mainly for the sound, but that fascination didn't last too long, and besides, being dual-mode (DC/DCC) locomotives, I couldn't run them with the majority of my straight DC roster, so I sold most of them. I had no problems with them while I had them, but it came down to a matter of compatability. I still have one Pennsy 2-10-4 that I run occasionally, and it is a monster, a nice runner and an impressive hauler.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
edit: nevermind, misread post.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
Katsumi, hands down.
Tenshodo - but you have to pay a surcharge for the name. (Their main business is jewelry and their main store is on the Ginza, the most expensive street in Tokyo.)
Of course, my requirements don't include ANY of the above, since I model in HOj (1:80 scale) and don't run any unmodified North American prototypes.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
riogrande5761Athearn Genesis has taken the lead, generally announcing about 3 new diesels a year and following many prototype specific details - they are pricey but you get what you pay for.
And that "you get want you pay for" depends on the roll of the QC dice.You may get a great model or a soddy model..You have read the topics and seen the photos just like I have.
When a once loyal customer decides its much safer to buy a older LL P2K SCL GP9 instead of a Genesis SCL GP9 or perfers a RTR GP38-2 over a Genesis GP38-2 due to QC issues its a sad day.
I will take a Atlas or a older LL P2K engine any day over a Genesis.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Since my reply post on this thread on Friday eve I've gone back to read some of the other responses. I rated for myself, Athearn BB as the best locomotives...at least from my own experience. There are many model brands out there that I have yet to own and assess...current Atlas, MTH, BLI, and Proto 2000 just to mention a few.
Since Athearn has discontinued the BB models I have been searching high and low to find them in the models I want. I just don't do Ebay. Anyway. Here is why I carry so much faith in BB.
In 1979-1980 I developed a fond interest in the iron ore railroads in Minnesota and decided to start modeling the DMIR. I bought 2 Athearn SD9's and some MDC ore jennies from...get this, 'Hobbies For Men'. How many remember that mail order outfit in Beacon, NY. I later found a third SD9 at a train show not long after. Painted and decaled them in the old DMIR scheme. Then I went on to ballast each to the hilt with lead. I only had enough space to shroud each motor with a layered cardstock jacket to protect the body in the event of a motor meltdown. One night at a friend's house we did a weight on the three together...just shy of 5 lbs. I laughed...he cringed.
So to make a long story short. I ran absolutely obscenely heavy trains with the three and ran them abusively hard.
On the friend's layout that had a 10 amp PS, I was spiking 7 amps at times with them...4-5 amps continuous.
Almost 35 years later, I still have the three. Minus the added weight, they still run extremely well with all original equipment and the paint and decals I applied in 1980.
Thought I would toss in this little story as a testament to the Athearn BB durability.
Okay...I'm done.
Have a good day all
Mark H
Modeling in HO...Reading and Conrail together in an alternate history.
I too have read the responses & can't say I'm suprised. I do like my Athearn BB locos....I've had quite a few over the years. They are quite durable, easy to work on, reasonably priced, and even though they were discontinued parts are still readily available. I know there are many nicer, more expensive locomotives out there but with the old BB you get a pretty good bang for your buck. I will say, however, the stock wheels on these units leave alot to be desired.
Michael
Never attempt anything you don't want to explain to the EMT
Michael6792 I too have read the responses & can't say I'm suprised. I do like my Athearn BB locos....I've had quite a few over the years. They are quite durable, easy to work on, reasonably priced, and even though they were discontinued parts are still readily available. I know there are many nicer, more expensive locomotives out there but with the old BB you get a pretty good bang for your buck. I will say, however, the stock wheels on these units leave alot to be desired.
As long as you have earplugs, their OK.
However, upgrading one to have sound also means you have to replace the motor, flywheels, driveshafts and wheels to get one that you can hear the sounds you want. Why not start with a better unit because your "bang for the buck" just went pop!
For me, Atlas, Kato and Intermountain top my list, pretty much a 3 way tie
followed closely by Proto 2000
Stewart
Bachmann Spectrum
Lima (awesome C-420s)
Mantua (steam only)
Bowser/Penn line
Bachmann Plus
Athearn BB
I personally have shied away from BLI, Genesis and MTH because of the horror stories expressed here and elsewhere about the quality control and poor customer service.
Karl
NCE über alles!
Athearn BB was good for the pre-DCC era. Obviously if you are still running a DC layout, they will still do the job. Compared with the detail on the newer locos, they don't stack up well. I had lots of Athearn BB on my old layout and got good service from them. My one big gripe was the loco pockets, especially on the F-units. Hornhooks were the standard back then but if you wanted to replace them with a KD, good luck.
crhostler61 Since Athearn has discontinued the BB models I have been searching high and low to find them in the models I want. I just don't do Ebay. Anyway. Here is why I carry so much faith in BB.
As I was planning my latest DCC layout, Trainworld had a blowout clearance on Athearn BB F-units. I bought a number of them, not caring about the livery since I planned to repaint them for my freelanced layout anyway. My first effort at painting these was pretty poor and about that time manufacturers started coming out with factory DCC and sound and also much better detail so I ditched all those old Athearn BBs and decided to just reletter some factory painted locos instead. Much easier than painting the whole body. If you think you might be interested, let me know. If you want a specific prototype, I probably don't have what you want but if you are into doing your own paint scheme, maybe we can work something out.
BRAKIE And that "you get want you pay for" depends on the roll of the QC dice.You may get a great model or a soddy model..You have read the topics and seen the photos just like I have.
The dice roll is generally better now than it was say 6 to 8 years ago. I have always been critical of Athearns QAQC, but quality has improved in recent years. Plus, if you get a lemon, exchange it for another model. I have had to do that a couple times - yes I got an SD45T-2 with the front truck hanging out totally loose from the frame - sent it back for another which is good. You don't have to accept a bad loco. And other makers have had lemons too, to be fair. KATO's SD40-2 with the poor wiring design, and Atlas had a run of GP40's that I had to order replacement trucks because they had issues. I'd still give Athearn an near the top rating.
He probably got a bad model. What is more sad is that this guy may have accepted an inferior model rather than exchange the better make for a good one. Athearn has had QA problems with the RTR line as well as the Genesis line. People mke decisions out of emotion rather than thought, but thats their business. I just want those who read this topic to try to weed out the bias and have a "big picture" view of HO diesel makes, rather than the statistical outlyers.
A LL P2K engine over Genesis? I have read a lot of negative feedback from those who have put LL P2K engines to the test over the years, such as Rob Spangler and Joe Fugate. Both have used P2K loco's extensively and found the mechanisms haven't held up on their large layouts, and theirs isn't the only negative feedback on LL P2K. And that isn't even mentioning the widespread problem with cracked gears! So while they make nice looking diesels, it seems illogical to say LL P2k are better than Genesis. I've haven't read that Genesis mechanisms are, in the long haul, worse than P2k. Atlas I agree, and thats why they are near the top.
Down side is Atlas doesn't make engines many need like SD45's, SD40T-2's, SD45T-2's, F units, SW1000, etc. So this gets down to the reason why we can't throw a whole brand out the window. We need diesels from multiple brands to build the roster we need.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 jecorbett Fair enough. My first Athearn DCC was a non-sound Mikado. Ran OK, not great. Not a lot of pulling power as compared to a couple other Mikes on my roster. I'd put it in the same class as Spectrum, which is also in the good, not great category. My most recent addition is a Geep. It tends to stall at slow speeds. The sound is pathetics as compared to what other manufacturers are offering. I also have a AB set of F3s. They are the best of the bunch but I have been unable to change the factory address from 0003 to the road number, even though I have a PowerPax booster that is supposed to handle the high end decoders. They are the only locos I've had from any manufacturer where that has been an issue. I'm glad you've been happy with your Athearn locos, but I can only rate them based on my experience with them and that has not been great. Which Geep? Geeps could be GP35, GP40-2, GP38-2, GP9. Is the sound MRC or Tsunami? Athearn discontinued MRC because it was pathetic. When Athearn engines were purchased matters a lot. Experience is valid, but lets be sure that experience isn't going to throw a brand under the buss because it was from a period when Athearns track record was more spotty. Personlly, I don't think your experience represents the brand well. I say that because I combine the experience of many others I talked to and read about on forums and overall, it is MUCH more positive.
jecorbett Fair enough. My first Athearn DCC was a non-sound Mikado. Ran OK, not great. Not a lot of pulling power as compared to a couple other Mikes on my roster. I'd put it in the same class as Spectrum, which is also in the good, not great category. My most recent addition is a Geep. It tends to stall at slow speeds. The sound is pathetics as compared to what other manufacturers are offering. I also have a AB set of F3s. They are the best of the bunch but I have been unable to change the factory address from 0003 to the road number, even though I have a PowerPax booster that is supposed to handle the high end decoders. They are the only locos I've had from any manufacturer where that has been an issue. I'm glad you've been happy with your Athearn locos, but I can only rate them based on my experience with them and that has not been great.
Sorry, Athearn doesn't get a pass on this. Even if they have upgraded, they still sold me an inferior product as compared to what was available from other companies at time I purchased it and I don't forget things like that. As they used to tell us in school, it goes in their permanent record. Every company should be evaluated by the quality of their products, both good and bad. You seem to want us to only evaluate Athearn by their best products. It doesn't work that way.
PS. The Geep I bought was a GP-9.
jecorbett You seem to want us to only evaluate Athearn by their best products. It doesn't work that way. PS. The Geep I bought was a GP-9.
I understand people make emotional decisions based on a bad experience. Why not just exchange the "inferior product"? You know, I had a bad experience with ExactRail when I bought their Centerbeam - I exchanged it 3 or 4 times and even the last one had a mild warp in the flat car portion. That being said, I'm not going to tell people Exactrail makes a lousy product, in general they make the best HO freight cars on the market. Everyone makes a few duds. You and I may probably need to agree to disagree. People tend to complain loudly when something is wrong (I do it too), but are often silent when they are happy. Case in point - this topic. I own around 70 Athearn diesels and really like them alot. I also own around 20 Atlas diesels, they are really nice too. I would suggest you consider Athearn, Atlas, Walthers, Proto 2000, when you are looking for a diesel to purchase. Which ever brand makes the model you like, go for it. They are all reputable companies which over all make nice products.
riogrande5761A LL P2K engine over Genesis? I have read a lot of negative feedback from those who have put LL P2K engines to the test over the years, such as Rob Spangler and Joe Fugate. Both have used P2K loco's extensively and found the mechanisms haven't held up on their large layouts, and theirs isn't the only negative feedback on LL P2K. And that isn't even mentioning the widespread problem with cracked gears! So while they make nice looking diesels, it seems illogical to say LL P2k are better than Genesis. I've haven't read that Genesis mechanisms are, in the long haul, worse than P2k. Atlas I agree, and thats why they are near the top.
I will still buy a LL P2K over a Genesis due to the on going QC issues..
For us mere mortals the P2K locomotives will last..Of course we don't run our engines at Mach 5 either.
Never put much stock in what some "expert wannabes" say..I believe CurtMc far better..He has stayed the course in his observations.
The funny part not so long ago I got flamed because I sold all 30 of my Geeps off due to the crack gears-that was one of the most stupidest things I ever did.
Now according to some wannabes P2K is junk..Of course some wannabes trash Kato as well..
riogrande5761 jecorbett You seem to want us to only evaluate Athearn by their best products. It doesn't work that way. PS. The Geep I bought was a GP-9. I understand people make emotional decisions based on a bad experience. Why not just exchange the "inferior product"? You know, I had a bad experience with ExactRail when I bought their Centerbeam - I exchanged it 3 or 4 times and even the last one had a mild warp in the flat car portion. That being said, I'm not going to tell people Exactrail makes a lousy product, in general they make the best HO freight cars on the market. Everyone makes a few duds. You and I may probably need to agree to disagree. People tend to complain loudly when something is wrong (I do it too), but are often silent when they are happy. Case in point - this topic. I own around 70 Athearn diesels and really like them alot. I also own around 20 Atlas diesels, they are really nice too. I would suggest you consider Athearn, Atlas, Walthers, Proto 2000, when you are looking for a diesel to purchase. Which ever brand makes the model you like, go for it. They are all reputable companies which over all make nice products.
It's not an emotional response to judge a company by the products it sells you. It is a very reasonable response.
The OP asked for opinions on brands of locomotives. How else do we do that other than our experience with those brands? It's not like a lumped Athearn in with Model Power. I have bought a lot of Athearn over the years, mostly BB locos and rolling stock. I still occasionally buy a RTR piece of rolling stock if it is a car I want for my layout, even though I'm not thrilled with their coupler system. As for the Geep with the poor quality sound, had it been malfunctioning, I would have returned it. It was working as it was designed to work, with very inferior sound. I bought this within the last few years after I had so many other locos with much better sound. Athearn made the decision to go with a second rate sound system when there were better choices available. Their name was on the box so they should be held accountable for that decision they made.
A company that sometime sells good products and sometimes sells inferior ones is going to rate above one that consistently sells poor products but below those who consistently provide quality products. As a company, I would put Athearn in the middle of the pack. Better than some. Not as good as others. All my Athearn DCC locos are from their Genesis line, which is their top line. They charge a high end price but I don't believe I have gotten high end quality from any of them. I might consider buying from them again if they were offering a product I couldn't get from somebody else, but if I can get the same loco from Atlas, P2K or BLI, they will get my business over Athearn because I have gotten better products from them in the past.
kbkchooch Michael6792 I too have read the responses & can't say I'm suprised. I do like my Athearn BB locos....I've had quite a few over the years. They are quite durable, easy to work on, reasonably priced, and even though they were discontinued parts are still readily available. I know there are many nicer, more expensive locomotives out there but with the old BB you get a pretty good bang for your buck. I will say, however, the stock wheels on these units leave alot to be desired. As long as you have earplugs, their OK. However, upgrading one to have sound also means you have to replace the motor, flywheels, driveshafts and wheels to get one that you can hear the sounds you want. Why not start with a better unit because your "bang for the buck" just went pop! For me, Atlas, Kato and Intermountain top my list, pretty much a 3 way tie followed closely by Proto 2000 Stewart Bachmann Spectrum Lima (awesome C-420s) Mantua (steam only) Bowser/Penn line Bachmann Plus Athearn BB I personally have shied away from BLI, Genesis and MTH because of the horror stories expressed here and elsewhere about the quality control and poor customer service.
Apparently you are biased against Athearn for some reason. I'm not claiming they are the best on the market by any means but they have their place on my layout. If I were going to install sound or upgrade to DCC I would not start with one of these though, I would look for something DCC ready from either Atlas or Kato. I've never owned either in HO but I do have a few KATO in N scale and did have a few Atlas & they were night & day difference over the other locos I owned. (they are all gone now and all I have left are 2 KATOs)
I didn't start this thread to depate "who makes the best locomotive" I was simply looking for opinions on your best performers. I didn't realize the can of worms I was opening.
jecorbett It's not an emotional response to judge a company by the products it sells you. It is a very reasonable response.
That really depends on the response. IMO, a reasonable response would be to try to understand if your experience is representative of the products the company produces in general, or if you were unlucky. It kinda sounds like you've been unlucky based on my experence and what I've read of many others experiences on Atlas forums, TrainOrders, MR forums, and several others. Yes, being unlucky isn't nice but the context of this topic is to fair give someone unfamiliar with a product, a negative bird eye view of it based on such a limited sample? Statistically not for sure. If one gives someone an unfair view of that company, is it reasonble if the majority of it's products are quite good? Not in my opinion. I've been buying Athearn since I was a teen in the mid 1970's and right up to the present, and over all Athearn has made very good products. I have read about some bad experiences and had a few myself, but overall, I'll still give Athearn good marks. Historically, Atlas and KATO have had a better QAQC track record yes.
I also believe part of the picture is what your diesel type and road name preferences are. My guess is if you needed tunnel motors, your opinion would be a bit different, probably a lot different. It is easier for folks to dismiss or give a worse rating to a company if they don't make very much product catering to their wants. Just saying ... that definitely biases me toward Athearn, and understandably so. I have to say, I like Athearn because I am a western fan and Athearn produces nice SD40T-2's, SD45T-2's and SD45's. People of an eastern bias would probably gravitatte toward Atlas as they seem to lean toward eastern roads.
That being said, I'll repeat what I said earlier to the original poster. If you like Southern Pacific and need tunnel motors or SD45's, Athearn is your company, period. Don't avoid them. They have overall nice products and are the most accurate representations of SP & DRGW SD40T-2's and SD45T-2's, and their SD45's have a lot of prototypically correct details.
In the end, we have the best choices now than we ever did. In many cases, there are only one or two companies that make what you want, and usually the quality is good. I would not back off of Athearn if they offered what you want. There are a few cases where more than one company makes a diesel, such as the F7 or GP7 etc.
Oh, and by the way. Most afficianado's agree that the Highlinger F7, (Genesis F7) is the BEST HO representation of the F7 nose ever made. If that matters to you, you really want to take a close look at the Athearn Genesis F unit. See below. Fiest your eyes on this beauty!
Michael6792 I didn't start this thread to depate "who makes the best locomotive" I was simply looking for opinions on your best performers. I didn't realize the can of worms I was opening.
Michael6792 Apparently you are biased against Athearn for some reason. I'm not claiming they are the best on the market by any means but they have their place on my layout. If I were going to install sound or upgrade to DCC I would not start with one of these though, I would look for something DCC ready from either Atlas or Kato. I've never owned either in HO but I do have a few KATO in N scale and did have a few Atlas & they were night & day difference over the other locos I owned. (they are all gone now and all I have left are 2 KATOs) I didn't start this thread to depate "who makes the best locomotive" I was simply looking for opinions on your best performers. I didn't realize the can of worms I was opening.
Keep in mind many of Athearns RTR line are DCC ready, as are all of the Genesis line.
As for best performing, generally KATO and Atlas are tops there, but Athearn has made some major advances were. My RTR SD45 runs like a KATO, honestly! Plust I've found my SW1000 run very smoothly also, and my GP9's like KATO's. To be thorough, I'll say some have reported some of the Athearn RTR loco's from around 2002-2006 approximately, have run like coffee grinders. This is likely due to spotty quality control as has been mentioned above.
I would like to add a brand that is no longer sold new in most stores, but are among the top HO runners. Stewart Hobbies F units!!!! Bowser has taken over the Stewart line, but if you find any Stewarts in the white boxes with the red tartan, those were manufactured originally by KATO and run like a dream. I havne't bought any of the Bowser made Stewarts, but haven't heard anything change negatively.
riogrande5761I'll say some have reported some of the Athearn RTR loco's from around 2002-2006 approximately, have run like coffee grinders.
Jim,Actually a lot of the early RTR was built up BB engines with thin plastic handrails,then came the newer RTR with some details and improved drive..The early run of RTR GP35 and RS3 was very spotty and a high risk roll of the QC dice.
Now the improve SW1000 and SW1500 is without a doubt a top line model except for the few with the warp handrails and Athearn replace those when notified of the problem..My SW1500 is a very smooth and quiet runner that I would put up against any brand.
My Athearn RTR GP38-2s,GP40-2,GP60Ms SD38,SD40 and SD40-2 are all top performers.
I'm just gun shy of their Geneses line and some of their RTR boxcars.
riogrande5761It kinda sounds like you've been unlucky based on my experence and what I've read of many others experiences on Atlas forums, TrainOrders, MR forums, and several others. Yes, being unlucky isn't nice but the context of this topic is to fair give someone unfamiliar with a product, a negative bird eye view of it based on such a limited sample? Statistically not for sure. If one gives someone an unfair view of that company, is it reasonble if the majority of it's products are quite good? Not in my opinion.
The short answer is that it is absolutely fair. Many online retailers have a product review page. Customers offer their opinions of a product based on their experience alone. If there are only one or two bad reviews and dozens of good ones, a person reading the reviews would get the idea that those giving bad reviews were just unlucky. If however, there are a dozen bad reviews among say 50 total reviews, that paints a completely different picture as to the quality of the product. It stands to reason that the higher percentage of substandard products a company produces, the higher percentage of negative reviews they will get.
Based on what I have read in this thread, my experiences with Athearn are not unique. A number of reviewers have had issues with them. If I were to give a letter grade to the three Genesis locos I have purchased, it would be a B and two Cs. That's not good enough when I am paying for A quality. And I had forgotten about the 2 Athearn standard line DCC ready RS3s I purchased. I'll be generous and give them a D. I had forgotten about them because I hardly ever run them any more. They have a high rate of derailments going through turnouts. I bought an Atlas RS3 shortly after buying these and the difference is night and day.
If we only offer positive reviews of products and keep our bad experiences to ourselves, that's not fair to the companies that consistently produce quality products because the companies with QC issues will be getting the same positive reviews as the companies that have earned them.
This kind of question and the lists of choices they generate are always colored by what type of models a person is interested in.
A few thoughts:
It does not matter how good a KATO HO diesel is, they don't make enough different models to even matter in the HO market.
For me it also does not matter how good ATLAS models are, I don't own any of them because so few of their products fit my era or theme.
The cracked gears in older Proto2000 models cause some people to slide those locos WAY down their list, but to me it is a very minor issue and I love the performance and detail of older Proto models.
My only Athearn Genesis diesel experiance is F units, tied with Intermountian at the top of list as F units go in my opinion. The rest of the Genesis line is mostly out of my era, don't know or care how good they are.
Bachmann - many are great, some have issues, but the prices and the Spectrum detail is great, so I make them work.
I will repeat, as I do on every thread on this topic. It is silly to think you can judge by the brand. They all make winner and losers.
Better questions would be "I'm interessted in medium steam, which ones are good?" "I'm interested in 1st generation diesels, which ones have you had good luck with?"
I would not give 50 cents for most of the BLI diesels I have seen just based on weak detail - at least not at the prices they ask. At a Bachmann price I might settle for that level of detail and ad some on my own.
What do I have? Mostly older Proto2000 diesels, Spectrum Steam, Intermountain and Genesis F units, some old Athearn units heavily rebuilt, a few BLI steamers, Proto2000 steam - I'm not unhappy with any of them.
Sheldon
As to which locomotives are the best I would have to vote for Rapdio for Diesel locomotives. While I am now being pampered by their products which have the highest level of detail of any HO manufacturer. They cater to Canadian prototypes and while their offerings are limited, they have EMD FP9's and also FA locomoitive.
Their locomotives fit my laout perfectly. They produce their own drive trains and their pulling power is all that I will ever need.
They are pricey, but you get what you pay for, in second place I would recommend Intermountain diesel locomotives.
As far as the best steam locomotives I collect mainly PFM brass locomotives, once again my layout is Canadian so I have no other choice. There is new brass being produced but their prices are beyond what I am willing to payl My old PFM brass engines have mainly open frame motors but are easily updated with new earth magnets and flywheels can also be easily added but with a comparison of performance with the new magnets I find adding flywheels does little to improve performance. Adding DCC is also rather straight forward and also easily updated at a reasonable cost. I have also updated some of my steamers with sound.
I have purchased a few of the new Candian brass engines and find the difference in detail and running characteristics between my old updated PFM steamers and the new brass to be very close. Hence, I will not pay the high premium prices for the new brass. I might change my mind if there was not so much old PFM and Overland Candain brass available.
For plastic steam engines, once again Candian prototypes there are currently no manufacturers catering to this market. However I would recommend that if you are into Steam that you look at Bachmann's older Spectrum offerings that are still currently available and that you update them with Candian steam parts. I use Erich's Fine Scale Parts. Using their enclosed steam cabs will give you a good start on fine tuning the Spectrums into close Candians Railroad steamers.
I certainly understand that I am very lucky to have an excellent supply of HO gauge Canaian Proptype engines at my disposal and that my selection will not be for that many hobbiest to follow but then again the only layout that really concerns me is my own.
On a side note, just to fuel the rumour mill, did anyone catch the posting where Jason from Rapido indicated that he would consider making a Candian steam engine sometime in the future? Now that would be something, with his known level of detail and fine road preformance of his raijl road equipment shown in the Rapido diesels engines and also in their passenger coaches.
I wonder if he would consider making a set of Candaian Heavy Weight coaches aw well sometime soon?
Jason, are you out there?
Trix
kbkchoochIts buying an engine that I know I will have to upgrade before I can enjoy it that sticks in my craw!
Karl,That thought laid heavily on my mind when I decided to dump my 30 P2K Geers( all C&O 7/9/30s).What stupid mistake that was! I'm slowly building up a SCL/Family lines/Seaboard System roster using P2K and Atlas locomotives except for a lone Family Lines SW1500..
I still like my old fashion BB GP7s..They're smooth running 25 year old engines ..I killed the noise by adding weight to the inside top of the shell.
BRAKIE kbkchooch Its buying an engine that I know I will have to upgrade before I can enjoy it that sticks in my craw! Karl,That thought laid heavily on my mind when I decided to dump my 30 P2K Geers( all C&O 7/9/30s).What stupid mistake that was! I still like my old fashion BB GP7s..
kbkchooch Its buying an engine that I know I will have to upgrade before I can enjoy it that sticks in my craw!
Karl,That thought laid heavily on my mind when I decided to dump my 30 P2K Geers( all C&O 7/9/30s).What stupid mistake that was!
I still like my old fashion BB GP7s..
Well I still buy new old stock Proto2000 locos at bargin prices and I have big stock of replacement axles/gears - not a problem for me. But I am mostly buying undecorated models I will take apart to paint anyway, so whats the problem with throwing in some new gears?
AND, most importantly, I have NEVER had a replacement set of gears, from PROTO, WAlTHERS or ATHEARN fail. So once they are fixed, they are fixed, again no big deal to me.
Hmmm, saying LL is trash... mmmkay, so my 6 units I own have put performance on par with my Kato's another loco manufacturer that the HO crowd seems to dislike. Wouldn't their units be under even higher scrutiny because they are few and far between in HO? seems like everytime I say I like Kato, that is always a response to it even though I'm talking in terms of N scale. guess everybody needs to have athearn to fit in here.... too bad I don't, nor do I care to own one!
Garry Du Puis,
What are you doing up at this time of the morning and worryimg about such stuff ?
I have an excuse, I am really sick and feeling very shitty and can't get to sleep because I probably slept too much through the day.
I like Katos too and I just let the rest of it slide on. mine are HO.
Get some sleep Guy, you are a growing boy/man. Rest well.
Johnboy out.........................
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
BRAKIE Jim,Actually a lot of the early RTR was built up BB engines with thin plastic handrails,then came the newer RTR with some details and improved drive..The early run of RTR GP35 and RS3 was very spotty and a high risk roll of the QC dice.
For sure. And I have acknowledged that the earlier RTR stuff suffered from higher incidents of problems, mainly in the chassis.
Now the improve SW1000 and SW1500 is without a doubt a top line model except for the few with the warp handrails and Athearn replace those when notified of the problem..My SW1500 is a very smooth and quiet runner that I would put up against any brand. My Athearn RTR GP38-2s,GP40-2,GP60Ms SD38,SD40 and SD40-2 are all top performers. I'm just gun shy of their Geneses line and some of their RTR boxcars.
Yes, and your testimony is more constant with my knowledge of Athearn than Mr. Corbets is. Nice to hear another person chime in on Athearn - there are a lot of nice diesels from Athearn RTR. Most of what I own are SD45's and tunnel motors form the RTR line. I haven't had a chance to run all my Genesis, but my GP9's run very smooth so far. I"m looking forward to the D&RGW GP40-2's this august to compliment my Atlas GP40-2's.
jecorbett If there are only one or two bad reviews and dozens of good ones, a person reading the reviews would get the idea that those giving bad reviews were just unlucky. Based on what I have read in this thread, my experiences with Athearn are not unique. A number of reviewers have had issues with them. If we only offer positive reviews of products and keep our bad experiences to ourselves, that's not fair to the companies that consistently produce quality products because the companies with QC issues will be getting the same positive reviews as the companies that have earned them.
If there are only one or two bad reviews and dozens of good ones, a person reading the reviews would get the idea that those giving bad reviews were just unlucky.
Based on what I have read in this thread, my experiences with Athearn are not unique. A number of reviewers have had issues with them.
Right ... and well, based on my personal experiences and lots of forum reading, you are in the ball park there - it's like 2 bad reviews vs. a dozen good ones, or close to that - thats my observation. Thats why I want readers to know Athearn isn't as bad as some would lead you to believe.
Of course your experiences are not unique. I've read those bad reviews at roughly the rate mentioned, mostly the earlier RTR line running like coffee grinders, and a few Genesis with issues. But I still like the product. What you do if you get a lemon is return it or exchange it and move on. If you don't like those numbers, well, lets again just agree to disagree.
And btw, I'm not glossing over Athearns problesm. I've always held Athearns feet to the fire regarding their QAQC track record, and I've also seen it improve over the past 5-8 years - so I'll give Athearn credit for improving. Perfect recently? No, but improving. And again, it's no small point as to what your bias is vs. your feelings about a company. I strongly believe if you were an SP or D&RGW fan, you'd probabably have a better opinion of Athearn. But I'll admit, I'm biased because Athearn caters to the SP and D&RGW fan in me and has please me alot.
Another example of QAQC in the hobby's past ... Remember LL P2K of the 1990's? They had lots of issues as they rolled out new RTR diesels. Customers gave feedback and they steadily improved the P2K line, unlike Spectrum which maintained poor fidelity through out the 90's. It really hasn't been until the last 5-6 years we've seen Bachmann make significant improvement.