see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I'll admit that more than half my locomotive stock is used from eBay. I've purchased some 'dogs' and made a steal on a 'dead' BLI that just needed the decoder reset for $50.00, which saved me $300 off retail. I bid assuming that repairs are necessary in all instances.
richhotrain The sellers feeback rating is critical, especially on used items. For me, it always has to be 100%. The sellers feedback on new items is important but for big time sellers, the rating is almost always less than 100% because a few buyers ar always going to be sour grapes. Item not as described, delivery too slow, never received the item, seller is a moron, etc. But if the feedback is lower than 99%, forget it. Rich
The sellers feeback rating is critical, especially on used items. For me, it always has to be 100%.
The sellers feedback on new items is important but for big time sellers, the rating is almost always less than 100% because a few buyers ar always going to be sour grapes. Item not as described, delivery too slow, never received the item, seller is a moron, etc. But if the feedback is lower than 99%, forget it.
Rich
As a long time seller on Ebay, since 1998 selling all sorts of stuff, but not full time, just now and then, it can be impossible to keep 100% satisfaction. I had one occasion where the same person bought 12 items I had listed, then was created so many problems I refunded him all his money. He left 12 negatives at a time I probably sold less than 50 items a year. That was a hit on my feedback, although I never had a negative from another buyer. And I think now feedback is only based on the last year. Back then it went back forever.
So less than a very high 90's rating is definatly something to be aware and cautious of, but if the seller has something you want it should not be deal breaker on it's own.
I have bought and sold a good amount of stuff on E-Bay over the years. Mostly locomotives. I'll agree that you need to ask questions & know the value of what you're buying.
Having said that, I usually end up buying from the guy that really has no clue as to what he is selling. The description will say something like "I have no way to test these" or "runs poorly" or "for parts or repair". I have found great deals in these auctions. I have become pretty good at determining the brand of loco from the pictures.
I buy them in larger groups and fix the ones I can and either add them to my layout or if it's not something I want I will put it back on E-Bay and re-sell it. Usually for a small profit while keeping the ones I want for myself. Most of the time means cleaning the wheels or fixing a broken wire so it doesn't get too involved. I try to stay away from bachmann & life like, the best sellers are usually AHM, Athearn, & Tyco. I know that Tyco isn't a quality locomotive, but there are actually guys outthere that collect them & will pay good money for a good running locomotive, especially if it's somewhat rare.
Not trying to make a fortune at it but so far I've been able to finance my entire railroad doing it.
Michael
Never attempt anything you don't want to explain to the EMT
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Doughless ATLANTIC CENTRAL Do you mean to tell me that people actually buy model trains USED? You betcha'. I love those COLLECTORS who grow tired of a portion of their collection and dump some mint stuff for 50% of the new price. Oh, that explains it! - I'm not a collector either. I guess that's why I actually keep and run the trains I buy. Sheldon
Doughless ATLANTIC CENTRAL Do you mean to tell me that people actually buy model trains USED? You betcha'. I love those COLLECTORS who grow tired of a portion of their collection and dump some mint stuff for 50% of the new price.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Do you mean to tell me that people actually buy model trains USED?
Do you mean to tell me that people actually buy model trains USED?
You betcha'. I love those COLLECTORS who grow tired of a portion of their collection and dump some mint stuff for 50% of the new price.
Oh, that explains it! - I'm not a collector either. I guess that's why I actually keep and run the trains I buy.
Sheldon
I get what you're saying. Me, I only buy stuff that eventually goes on the layout, for the most part. The problem is....I have more stuff that will fit on the layout. So I guess there is a collector element to my game.
I also buy used stuff to paint or weather, and then resell. Or stuff that's advertised to not run, then I fix it and sell it. Painted and weathered structure kits can go for some good dough. Some of it starts off as used items from someone else. Its all a fun part of the hobby for me and it tends to pay for itself.
- Douglas
You betcha'. I love those COLLECTORS who grow tired of a portion of their collection and dump some nearly mint stuff for 50% of the new price.
About the only stuff I buy that might be considered "used" is "new old stock" kind of stuff. You know, the Proto2000 loco that has never had the shell installed and likely never been out of the box.
Or the Athearn Blue Box kit that still has a sealed parts envelope, etc.
Sure, every once in a great while, some really "cherry" item I need comes along from the days of yore - but generally, I prefer my trains not yet touched by consumer hands - or these days, not yet touched by North American hands.
BUT, then again, I don't buy stuff, use it or keep it a while and then sell it on Ebay either........
Interesting responses about what is meant by "as-is" condition. I'll just pose a question and see what the answers are:
Here's an example:
Suppose a seller lists a used BB locomotive. Takes one picture of the locomotive in its box. Of course, its only of one side. He describes it as "used Athearn locomotive in as-is condition" and prices it at a minimum bid of $30. The seller has sold over 300 train items.
Buyer wins it for the 30, gets it home and takes it out of the box. He notices the entire unphotographed side is a totally different color and has several large holes in the side of the long hood. Again, neither the picture or the description disclosed that.
Does the seller owe the buyer a refund? Should the buyer leave negative feedback if the seller refuses?
Just interested in hearing some thoughts..
maxman richhotrain We have strayed far from the original issue which was buying used model railroading stuff on eBay determining the market value of used items when buying and selling. Rich I'll say. The title of this thread was "the pitfalls of buying used engines". Nothing in there at all about determing prices, market value, or anything else. Seems to me he wanted to know if anyone else had bought an engine and then found that unexpected repairs were necessary.
richhotrain We have strayed far from the original issue which was buying used model railroading stuff on eBay determining the market value of used items when buying and selling. Rich
We have strayed far from the original issue which was buying used model railroading stuff on eBay determining the market value of used items when buying and selling.
Tracklayer
BRAKIE Does this help in clearing things up?
Does this help in clearing things up?
Not really. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Alton Junction
Absolutely ask questions of the seller, and if they can't answer them, move on. I was looking at a post war Lionel diesel, which was always sold as an AA unit (powered and dummy) but in this case was only one unit. I asked the seller if it was powered or not, seller had no idea. I explained how to find out (take the shell off, look at the bottom and look for motor, etc), but the seller basically said "I am selling it. If I'm wrong, I'll fix it with the buyer". Not someone I want to buy from. Always ask and reask if necessary.
richhotrainAre you suggesting that if someone buys an Athearn BB passenger car on eBay for more than $10 that the person is overpaying for that car? Rich
Not likely..Let's say that passenger car was $29.95 BIN..That's overpaying.
The going rate for used BB passenger cars seems to be between $12-18.00 depending on condition whereas the going rate for freight cars at shows is around $5.00 used with KDs.
However..
In the freight car game one must becareful because there are so many common cars that is available in the old BB and MDC kits as well as RTR from Athearn,Atlas and of course Accurail kits.
Now that BB or MDC $14.99 C&NW boxcar doesn't seem to be quite the deal since RTR C&NW boxcars from Athearn and Atlas cost about five bucks more.In fact I seen a Trainman RTR BN boxcar that was cheaper then what a seller was asking for a older BB kit.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Larry, perhaps I am missing your point. In fact, I'm sure that I am.
Are you suggesting that if someone buys an Athearn BB passenger car on eBay for more than $10 that the person is overpaying for that car?
Rich,Buying use and knowning your prices goes hand in hand..
Mike's and Dave's replies covers that quite nicely.
At the risk of getting this entire thread locked down right now, if not deleted, I have been reliably informed by those who know that this phenomenon is also common to online dating, with the possible exception that I suspect few people who appear in online dating sites use the phrase "As Is." A different vocabulary of code words likely exists.
I say no more on that analogy.
I would only observe that it is also astounding what prices can be asked for broken and defective trains at actual real live swap meets, where you can see the damage and the problems right before your eyes. So it is not like Ebay or simialar on line venues are themselves the cause of sellers over valuing their goods. I think that just comes with being a seller of used stuff.
Dave Nelson
BRAKIEI have made several offers on e-Bay and have accepted some counter offers but,still a $30.00 Bev-Bel-Athearn or even a regular BB kit for $30.00 is mite extreme in the pricing.Exception being the extremely rare one production run cars that goes for higher prices.Oddly with these cars its the (if you will) "victory of a sucessful hunt" more then the price.
Yes, one has to be willing to walk away from a deal that's more than what one wants to pay.
Because as soon as you do that, there's the tendency to start questioning one's decision -- which on the forums often translates into "I got ripped off..." when the problem really is you agreed to pay too much. There's no one to blame but yourself when that happens.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Mike,I understand that and shoot its hard to give away any electric engine like a AEM-7 in this area.
SCL and Seaboard System is a hard find in this area which means for me its e-Bay or face a long hunt at train shows..Even C&O is a hard hunt.
I have made several offers on e-Bay and have accepted some counter offers but,still a $30.00 Bev-Bel-Athearn or even a regular BB kit for $30.00 is mite extreme in the pricing.Exception being the extremely rare one production run cars that goes for higher prices.Oddly with these cars its the (if you will) "victory of a sucessful hunt" more then the price.
BRAKIERich,Join me in going to my favorite train shows like Berea,Wooster(Dalton) Bucyrus and Marion and look at all the $3-5.00 BB and MDC cars..How about older BB kits 3/10.00? How about common Bev-Bel/Athearn for 3/$10.00? Rich,Ya gotta know your prices and what may or may not be readily available.
Larry,
You gotta remember Rich is in the Chicago metropolitan area. Prices in the big city tend to be higher for a lot of reasons. certainly at train shows, there are lots more customers for the used equipment dealers.
Regional location can also make a big difference in prices for certain roadnames. A local favorite may go for premiuim prices, while items popular elsewhere languish.
Which brings up the point again that it's the willing seller and willing buyer getting together under the circumstances of the moment that makes a deal. "Blue" books, completed auction listings or even what someone just paid in another state fro the same item are just a start on determining value, not the final word.
I bought a gp7 pennsy a few years ago, seller said it kept shorting out when tested. I bought it for 15.00 as is with free shipping, when it arrived I checked out a very nice brass loco that needed a little work, had many offers for it but its still in the display case and every once in a while I take it out and run it. not bad for a sold as is.Jim.
mobilman44Ebay and other online venues are their MR marketplace, and they will pay what they will pay to get what they want.
Make no mistake e-Bay and three on line stores are my hobby shops.
I will pay a higher price for some items but,that doesn't mean I will pay $29.00 for a Bev-Bel/Athearn car..
I'll just wait till it shows up again on e-Bay at a more reasonable price of (say) $12.99.
Hi,
I believe there is a couple of additional points that might be considered........
- Train shows are just not a viable option for a whole lot of MRs. So they don't have access to those low priced deals that are mentioned. Ebay and other online venues are their MR marketplace, and they will pay what they will pay to get what they want.
- As a buyer, I literally went years of going to train shows looking for particular MR items. One I recall was a green light tower (post war Lionel) and the other was the Walthers ATSF HO multi car wrecking train kit. They were not to be had.......... But, when I got turned on to Ebay (1999), as I recall it was less than two months before I had each in hand. Did I overpay? Perhaps. Do I care? Not a bit - for I got what I wanted.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I gambled one time buying an Athearn GP35, so I kept the risk low, bidding cheap. The description was simply "locomotive 6935". The single picture was fuzzy, but it had what looked like grey wheels...maybe. It turned out to be a runner, and after cleanup, a good one! Cheapest loco I ever won. Same seller was selling an F-7, same style of description, but it was clearly a dummy, super common among F-7s.(Black wheels). Know what you're looking at, and be prepared to take a hit if it's not what you think it is, especially if the seller knows nothing about it. Dan
For those of you that saw my story about the Alaskan GP-40 the other day, the seller apologized and granted me a partial refund which I used to buy a set of decals to replace the missing A in Alaska with. I also went ahead and replaced the broken front coupler and glued the horns back on the roof. Otherwise the engine runs great.
richhotrainLarry, I just sold 22 Athearn BB passenger cars on eBay with an average sales price of $15.50 per car. That is my quantification of market value. Rich
That seems to be the going prices for BB passenger cars at the shows I mention-if you can find them...The freight cars is plentiful.
Ya did good.
BRAKIE richhotrain Athearn BB cars used to cost $10 when they were widely available new. But, now that they are not readily available, they easily sell used for more than $10. Rich,Join me in going to my favorite train shows like Berea,Wooster(Dalton) Bucyrus and Marion and look at all the $3-5.00 BB and MDC cars..How about older BB kits 3/10.00? How about common Bev-Bel/Athearn for 3/$10.00? Rich,Ya gotta know your prices and what may or may not be readily available. With that said. I have bought some hard to find road names for as high as $12.99 BIN-I just grit my teeth and paid the price since these road names isn't readily available at the shows I mention and I knew the price was above the going price when and if you find them at a show and if you will recall that old saying a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.That was my thought when I decided to buy those cars. Another thing is a lot of the Bev-Bel/Athearn and MDC road names has been release by Athearn as RTR..So,I keep that in mind too because some of those cars can be had for $16-18.00 BIN. Then there's the Atlas Trainman cars that can be had for around $12-16.00 with the same road names. See what I mean when I say you gotta know your prices?
richhotrain Athearn BB cars used to cost $10 when they were widely available new. But, now that they are not readily available, they easily sell used for more than $10.
Rich,Join me in going to my favorite train shows like Berea,Wooster(Dalton) Bucyrus and Marion and look at all the $3-5.00 BB and MDC cars..How about older BB kits 3/10.00? How about common Bev-Bel/Athearn for 3/$10.00?
Rich,Ya gotta know your prices and what may or may not be readily available.
With that said.
I have bought some hard to find road names for as high as $12.99 BIN-I just grit my teeth and paid the price since these road names isn't readily available at the shows I mention and I knew the price was above the going price when and if you find them at a show and if you will recall that old saying a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.That was my thought when I decided to buy those cars.
Another thing is a lot of the Bev-Bel/Athearn and MDC road names has been release by Athearn as RTR..So,I keep that in mind too because some of those cars can be had for $16-18.00 BIN.
Then there's the Atlas Trainman cars that can be had for around $12-16.00 with the same road names.
See what I mean when I say you gotta know your prices?
Larry, I just sold 22 Athearn BB passenger cars on eBay with an average sales price of $15.50 per car.
That is my quantification of market value.